News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by viraptor on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @09:42PM (#34991262)
For comparison, Australia Post went with mostly 3-wheel electric bikes for local deliveries (3100 out of 4100 EVs in the fleet mid 2022). https://auspost.com.au/our-stories/inspiring-stories/sustain... there's a photo in the link. The low noise compared to the previous powered bikes is really nice.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by m4rtink on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @10:35PM (#34991645)
Yeah - while it seems easy/logical to just swap a normal delivery vehicle for an electric version of it, you don't really have to do that & electric vehicles do come in many more shapes and sizes due to the might higher flexibility and scalability of the electric power system.

For example here in Brno, Czech Republic, the entry to the city center is nowadays quite restrictive for regular cars/vans - a lot of it is a pedestrian zone & its not really built for cars anyway, the street layout dating back to the middle ages in places or to the 19th century.

As a result, a lot of the deliveries happen via alternative means - for example when you order a pizza from the local Dominos, they will come with an electric scoter or on a bike. A lot of the food delivery happens via guys on small e-scooters (or even electric monowheels!) or just on foot/going by public transport. In other cases you can see a DHL cargo e-bike, etc. :)

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by gffrd on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:19AM (#34992283)
For some reason I find it really funny that there are Dominos in the Czech Republic …
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by 15155 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:33AM (#34992350)
There are Dominos everywhere, it's not a laughing matter.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by screwturner68 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:22AM (#34995970)
I felt the same way the first time I went to London and everyone in the pub was drinking Coors light except me I was drinking a fine English Bitter. I wouldn't wish Coors upon anyone.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by notch898a on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:36AM (#34992375)
As an American I refuse to believe there is anything in BRNO but a gigantic Česká zbrojovka factory.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by tpm on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:08AM (#34993285)
The current Česká zbrojovka is located in Uhersky Brod, the Brno location is long gone.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by notch898a on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:09AM (#34993292)
Aye. But there are millions of rifles with such insignia on them [0] and they were exported all over the world. If you asked some guy in the corners of afghanistan what Brno was, in the off chance they knew the word, they would probably think it was a brand of rifle.

I'd be curious if there is anything more iconic in recent history from brno that covers the ends of the earth than brno firearms.

[0] https://images.guns.com/prod/2021/06/21/60d0c845dabd0402af4f...

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by kriro on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:49AM (#34993519)
It's the birth place of Adam Ondra, arguably the best climber of all time and also his preferred climbing region. He does cover the ends of the earth by smashing the hardest climbs in the world everywhere :D
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by piva00 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:48AM (#34993893)
Had no idea about Brno firearms but have seen Starobrno beers in quite a lot of countries I've been to, in and out of Europe.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by tpm on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:20AM (#34995940)
Villa Tugendhat by Ludwig Mies van der Rohe is pretty iconic, probably in different circles though.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by m4rtink on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:19AM (#34995274)
Yeah - it used to be a pretty gigantic complex & it is now being re-developed: https://www.novazbrojovka.cz/

It will essentially become a whole new quarter, with housing, office/retail space and new schools. That's how big it was.

BTW, main focus now in Brno is high tech (a lot of electron microscopy), IT (Red Hat, Kiwi, YSOFT, Seznam, Netsuite, Avast, etc.) and lately also space (OHB, SAB Aerospace, etc.).

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by drstewart on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:05AM (#34993266)
Hard on anecdotal observation Domino's is far more popular in Europe than the US
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Tade0 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:23AM (#34994499)
Imagine if it was run by an Australian.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by m4rtink on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:21AM (#34995309)
Not sure if they are anywhere else in Czech Republic, but in Brno they even reside in the magnificent functionalist Palace Moravia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_Moravia

As far as I can tell their service is good & pizzas tasty. :)

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by lowercased on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:18AM (#34995906)
First time I traveled from US to Europe was Spain in 1988, and I was interested to see Burger King and McDonalds there. A decade later, visiting the UK, I was 'surprised' a bit to see so many 'US' brands there. Mid 2000s - visited Shanghai - so many Western/US brands, didn't feel much different than being in NYC. 2010s - visited Russia and Romania - again, many US brands there (or other European/UK brands I knew). I got Sbarro pizza in Moscow - cost about $45 for one large pizza, but still tasted the same.

Lately, I've started noticing 'UK' brand products coming to the US (Persil detergent, for example). Maybe many of these are Unilever brands being exported to more countries?

When people talking about "multinational corporations", this is what they mean. As a US person who's never traveled abroad, it might be jarring (or 'funny') at first to see familiar brands in a 'foreign' country. But we're ... a pretty global society now.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by HeyLaughingBoy on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:33PM (#35001624)
I remember being in Italy(?) about 30 years ago and for whatever reason my friend went into a Blimpie's, of all places! Once they realized he was American, they gave him free food in exchange for a critique of how their sandwiches tasted compared to the ones over here.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by lowercased on Friday March 03, 2023 @11:53AM (#35012053)
Nice!
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by euroderf on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:46AM (#34993503)
Seems like this might be a case for solar panels on-board. Long delivery route, moderate speeds, open road.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by comboy on Thursday March 02, 2023 @05:05AM (#34993986)
From quick search electric car uses 0.15-0.2kWh per kilometer. That's amount of energy you get after delivering 200 Watts for an hour. Let's say you have 2m2 of roof (pretty generous), of very efficient panels in your driving in absolute optimal conditions when they are giving you full power (that's around 200W/m2). No loses on the inverter and such.

So you need to be going at the speed of 2km/h. Well, that's actually not that bad for a postal service. It's assuming absolute optimal conditions, but energy usage is for a typical electric car.

I doubt it would be financially net positive or carbon negative, but the idea is not as crazy as I thought assuming final delivery in medium density sunny urban areas.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Tade0 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:31AM (#34994539)
I suppose it makes sense to at least power the AC with them, as its drain correlates with the amount of sunlight.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by rout39574 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:12AM (#34995215)
AC is pretty power hungry; solar panels on the roof of an average van (best case) aren't going to make much of a dent. I find estimates of 10-20 miles per day of range in the best cases.

At current prices, my sense is that solar panels on vehicles are marketing, not materially contributing to the energy budget. Nothing wrong with that but I wouldn't like to spend my feature money on the option.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Gordonjcp on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:56AM (#34995641)
> AC is pretty power hungry; solar panels on the roof of an average van (best case) aren't going to make much of a dent.

If you space them off the roof by about an inch, like the old Landrover "Safari" roof, it'll make a hell of a difference.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Retric on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:46AM (#34994631)
These are ford E-transit vans with something like 10-12 m2 of roof space and 116 miles of range on a 68kWh battery pack at highway speeds. https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/e-transit/

Assuming they are going to use roughly half that range or 34kWh per day a solar roof getting roughly 1/2 of an optimal 8 hours * 0.22kW/m^2 * ~11m2 ~= 9kWh per day, isn’t nothing but hardly enough on it’s own.

Where solar roofs might be beneficial is simply reducing the number of charge/discharge cycles on the battery. A hypothetical 25-50 fewer full charge discharge cycles per year could be a full battery replacement they avoid.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by screwturner68 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:36AM (#34996151)
I don't think the urban areas would work/are needed. Right now all mail is delivered by foot and likely faster than you could deliver with any vehicle, lots are 25-30feet wide so the density makes walking the best method. Where I do see it happening is out in the suburban subdivisions where people don't even have personal mailboxes, there's usually a cluster of boxes in the middle of the block for all the residents. So deliveries would be every 400m or so, electric would be perfect.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Gordonjcp on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:55AM (#34995631)
What would the solar panels do, power the clock?
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by screwturner68 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:37AM (#34996165)
one little panel to power a clock, a light, a fan and a radio would be perfect.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by codetrotter on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:38AM (#34995468)
> electric vehicles do come in many more shapes and sizes due to the might higher flexibility and scalability of the electric power system.

True. For example, this Norwegian article from 2021 has two pictures in it.

https://fagbladet.no/nyheter/posten-stanser-kjop-av-fossile-...

The first picture at the top is mostly old, fossil fuel cars.

Scroll down a bit. The electric cars that the Norwegian postal service use are much smaller. Almost like a quad bike with small wheels and a roof.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by SamBam on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:01AM (#34995711)
Around me (Boston USA area) there are ebike grocery deliveries (Getir) wizzing down every street. It's a great idea, although clearly the incentives are set up so that the delivery guys need to complete as many orders as possible, the predictable result of which is that these kids are driving dangerously the wrong was down one-way streets and cutting lights.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by screwturner68 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:20AM (#34995938)
I really love the concept of ebikes, for an urban/suburban area it's a viable alternative to a car. This issue as I see is that the regulations just aren't there and people are ebikes ride like complete idiots. Pre-ebike if you were riding at 25mph chances were you were a pretty good cyclist and had good control over your bike, now anybody that can find an ebike is zipping along at 25mph. This wouldn't be a problem if they followed the rules of the road and rode like they were driving a motorcycle (which is what an ebike really is) or a car, but that isn't the case, they ride like an 8 year old on their first bike, on the sidewalks, going the wrong way in traffic, not stopping for stop signs and traffic signal basically a free for all at 25mph not 8mph. Going back, you used to only see this from riders or messengers, so it was really limited, and even then riders/messengers got doored and put through windshields as a matter of course. I think it's just a matter of time before we see these ebike guys getting killed in significant numbers, enough that there's going to laws put in place.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by nightski on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:31AM (#34996089)
As an avid cyclist it really bothers me when any cyclist, e-bike or not, violates the rules of the road. It's so important we follow them. Much of the hatred received is because of bikers doing things they are not supposed to giving us a bad reputation.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by lumb63 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:51AM (#34996324)
YES! I often get (unreasonably) upset at bicyclists because, in my experience, one in maybe ten follow the rules of the road. Where I am, it is very common that bicyclists will behave like a car when it is convenient for them, and like a pedestrian when it is convenient for them. They weave in and out of traffic, if they obey traffic laws at all. They run red lights, ride at night without reflectors, etc. I have nothing personal against bicyclists, but a lot of them drive very unsafe.

I imagine dedicated bike lanes would help with this, but at least where I am, there are dozens of cars for every bike, so I’m not sure how much sense it makes.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by dahart on Thursday March 02, 2023 @10:10AM (#34996578)
Where I live, it’s pretty common for non-cyclists, and even cyclists sometimes, to have no idea that the rules for pedestrians, cars, and cyclists are all different. Car drivers frequently believe that cyclists have to obey they same rules as cars, such as stopping at a stop sign, and get upset when cyclists don’t do this, without realizing that it’s the law; cars are required to stop and bicycles are not. (This is of course not true everywhere, but is where I live.)

I don’t know that there’s all that much ‘hatred’, my road rides are by and large peaceful, but the cars that do seem upset by cyclists tend to be unwilling to respect bikes that are following the rules of the road; they don’t like bikes using a full lane and they will often break the rules of the road to pass a cyclist unreasonably quickly and unreasonably close.

One thing I’ve noticed about e-bikes is that they are increasing the number of cyclists considerably. I feel like this is very very good for cyclists, it’s making bikes much more present on the road, increasing the city’s interest in maintaining bike paths, normalizing bikes in traffic for powered vehicle drivers, etc.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by kennywinker on Thursday March 02, 2023 @10:30AM (#34996871)
The road system and rules were built with cars in mind. They do not make sense for a cyclist, and following them is not the safest way to ride. I will follow rules that keep me safe, and allow my free movement. I won’t follow rules that make me less safe
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by dev1n on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:18AM (#34995914)
The ebikes aren't dangerous, the cars that hit them are. I think that's an important distinction.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by 7speter on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:39AM (#34996186)
Right, its the cars that are dangerous when people on bikes (ebikes or not) ride on sidewalks.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by bandofthehawk on Thursday March 02, 2023 @10:01AM (#34996451)
I think part of the problem is that the danger from cars kind of force the bikes onto the sidewalk. If a biker has a choice between possibly getting hit by a car or possibly hitting a pedestrian, the choice is kind of obvious.

The solution is better infrastructure for bikes. Separate bike lanes from cars and pedestrians, slow the cars down, and improve visibility at conflict points.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by eropple on Thursday March 02, 2023 @10:13AM (#34996628)
> If a biker has a choice between possibly getting hit by a car or possibly hitting a pedestrian, the choice is kind of obvious.

I don't think that's true, though. The alternative is not "endanger pedestrians", the alternative is "walk". A biker has a choice to not bike. And that's what I do; I walk when I'm in Boston, because I don't think urban biking is safe enough for me to make that choice.

Like, yes, better bike infrastructure is a good idea and separated bike lanes is something that I absolutely support, but biking is a choice, and right now a lot of people on e-bikes (not so much regular bikes, to be honest) make me feel unsafe to walk in places that they tend to congregate.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by magicalist on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:06PM (#34999371)
If biking is a choice then so is driving a car, and cars are far more dangerous to pedestrians.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by eropple on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:54PM (#35000075)
Cars absolutely are more dangerous when pedestrians and cars intersect. They're also not on the sidewalk, where pedestrians usually are, while bicycles (and, in my experience, especially e-bikes) tend to be. I've never gotten hit by a car. I have gotten hit by bicyclists. I'd rather not be hit by either.

If we're all on board with punishing bicyclists (and, again, especially e-bikes), who get to act like vehicles when it suits them, from being on sidewalks and potentially endangering pedestrians, I think there's a great dialogue to have about that.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by whafro on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:30AM (#34996078)
It's not the ebikes that he's saying are dangerous, it's the couriers. I got hit by a Getir rider in Brookline (probably near the parent) who zipped the wrong way out of a one-way street into the crosswalk I was using. Any vehicle driven by someone who isn't following the general rules/flow/expectations of everyone around them is dangerous.

And large vehicles are dangerous too. But that's orthogonal.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by eropple on Thursday March 02, 2023 @10:11AM (#34996596)
E-bikes are absolutely dangerous to the pedestrians they hit.

I don't much like cars, but cars aren't driving on the sidewalks where I am.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by ggm on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @10:11PM (#34991439)
One I see regularly has a semi official "50 kph speed limited" sticker and underneath another less official one: "you wish"

Compared to the old step through moped they had this new trike is a big improvement. It has shade and it carries far more mail. But it is bigger and I can see it may sometimes be less "agile" on badly maintained pavement and grass. The mopeds used to scoot around like zippy little dogs

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Gigachad on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @09:51PM (#34991321)
The linked one is more like a golf cart form factor. In the city areas they also use something resembling a regular ebike with pedels. Makes it easy to get on the footpath since most buildings have no parking.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by dbg31415 on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @10:29PM (#34991598)
Hard to fit Amazon packages on a tricycle, Mate.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by Spivak on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @10:41PM (#34991696)
Yeah, I don't know what it's like for your postfellows but that the back of that truck is full up every day.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by viraptor on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @10:50PM (#34991764)
Isn't that what we want - vehicles that go out full most days? (As long as the number of vehicles or trips cover the average daily flow)
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by pests on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:30AM (#34992333)
Why does a full truck or a half empty truck matter? The truck is still going out each day regardless.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by viraptor on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:03AM (#34992549)
Weight and size correlate with fuel/energy usage. There's also availability of access/parking space and time to access the packages. If you don't deliver more than a bag each day, a car is not needed. If you don't deliver large things, a van is not needed. Etc.

So if you already have a van, it didn't matter if it's half loaded or full. But if you're getting new vehicles, 1 bike doing 3 trips may be way cheaper over time than 1 van.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by dbg31415 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:11PM (#34999446)
Fair points.

What I would love to see is a ban on advertising in the mail. It all just ends in the bin. Such a waste to see those poor postal people sorting trash flyers for each house. Has to be soul crushing for them. And all I do is skim it and chuck it and get annoyed I had to sift through to find real mail…

Some sort of “opt in” code… that companies who sent bills and places I signed up to could use. But that would block unsolicited communications…

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by dbg31415 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:28PM (#35000587)
Oof, I had no idea... the USPS is actually behind all those trash ad campaigns.

They even sell you mailing lists for your target audience. Cringe.

https://www.uspsdelivers.com/direct-mail-cost-calculator/

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by oblio on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:41AM (#34993115)
They could get vans and trikes at the same time.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by prawn on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:39AM (#34994584)
The trikes deliver letters and small packages (padded envelopes, etc). The larger packages are delivered separately by a van.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by nonethewiser on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:04PM (#34991867)
Seems like it’s really only suited for cities. That’s not where the challenge is.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by viraptor on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:10PM (#34991893)
Why only for cities? There's quite a few of them in the local small towns which were previously handled on pushbikes and small motor bikes.

There's lots of challenges with mail delivery depending on the area, density, business/residential ratio, and many other things. Those vehicles satisfy some situation. "the challenge" is not a thing.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mojoe on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:38PM (#34992074)
I think what parent is saying is that in the US a disproportionate percentage of USPS budget is spent delivering mail to extremely rural areas (far from both cities and small towns).
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by notch898a on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:52AM (#34992474)
I remember being at the post office and thinking it was dumb that the clerk thought Micronesia was part of the US and they could charge domestic rates.

Only later that I discovered I was the dumb one.

IDK how you can possibly economically send mail to places like foreign barely habited deep pacific islands for the same price as mailing to your neighbor.

[dead]
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by notch898a on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:53AM (#34993187)
I don't think it's fine we're subsidizing domestic shipping rates to mail to foreign citizens on foreign soil, save maybe a few rare exceptions like they're acting in an official capacity on behalf of the US.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by yurishimo on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:28AM (#34993771)
Are American citizens not entitled to send mail to other citizens overseas? I would argue that most mail that is sent abroad is between American citizens and their families (military care packages, Xmas cards for expats, etc).
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by michaelt on Thursday March 02, 2023 @05:42AM (#34994244)
Well, we could have a government policy of subsidising international mail sent from the US.

China does that, for example - which is why you can get a $3 widget on AliExpress sent from China with free shipping.

However, right now congress doesn't act like they're doing that intentionally. That doesn't seem to be the policy they're aiming for.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by AlotOfReading on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:00AM (#34992906)
You can't, but the USPS is legally obligated to have a single flat rate for domestic deliveries, which is extended to certain former territories as a goodwill measure. They attempted to charge international rates many years back, but the effect it had on the affected countries' economies was so significant that the change was immediately rolled back until they had a viable alternative, which hasn't emerged.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by euroderf on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:50AM (#34993528)
Back in the 70s I tried to send a letter to San Marino and the local post office guy did not believe there was a country so named. We (he) had to go to the post office reference manuals.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by kalleboo on Thursday March 02, 2023 @05:11AM (#34994022)
My parents live in rural Australia and their postwoman just drives a regular 4wd pickup truck, not some special mail van. She delivers on a lot of dirt/mud tracks and has to traverse small rivers, I don't think the special USPS van is built to do that.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by anthomtb on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:52AM (#34996336)
The USPS delivery vehicle in the rural, mountainous neighborhoods outside my city is an older Chevrolet Suburban. I am assuming this is a private vehicle, contracted to delivery mail in a certain area but its possible that it is government owned.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by nonethewiser on Thursday March 02, 2023 @11:22AM (#34997756)
That makes my point. The 3wheel bike doesn’t work in that case.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mastax on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:22PM (#34991977)
Could you explain how the tricycles work, practically? Auspost delivers parcels, correct? That tricycle looks like it could fit about one days worth of package deliveries for my street. Then it would need to go back to the post office. Unless the post offices are very close together that seems really inefficient. Also, since Australia was not built in the 10th century, you can fit normal sized cars most everywhere, no? What am I missing?
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by glenngillen on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:30PM (#34992033)
It’s largely filled with letters and maybe small packages (e.g., my coffee subscription). Anything larger than a large book seems to still be delivered by someone driving a van. The trikes roam the streets going door to door, the vans operate more like a courier service.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by viraptor on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:36PM (#34992062)
That, and also the post offices in towns are pretty close. In my area that means there's 4 of them, around 1km apart. Covering probably 20k people in the town itself + another 10k in the general area.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by euroderf on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:48AM (#34993511)
> Anything larger than a large book seems to still be delivered by someone driving a van.

Or a roving Packagebot(TM) ?

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by barrysteve on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:38PM (#34992072)
The e-trikes replaced old motorcycles with saddlebags. The trike rides up onto the footpath and delivers directly into the mailbox. Usually letters and catalogues. They hop from letterbox to letterbox along the road and footpath. They are coloured fluroscent yellow, same association as high visibility shirts.

Packages are done by courier in a van or truck. Grocery deliveries are done by supermarket branded refrigerator trucks. Local fast food is done by the ubereats/menulog crowd.

A local automotive store will drop off parts by an employee in his car.

It sounds like americans get more packages delivered in one go, by the us postal office trucks?

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by aidenn0 on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @11:45PM (#34992113)
Yes. Congress required the USPS to be profitable, and then required it to up-front fund its pensions, and then capped the rate they can charge for first-class mail. This created incentives for them to deliver more parcels. One service they offer is "last-mile" service for private parcel carriers; so e.g. FedEx will get it to your city and USPS will deliver to your house. A significant fraction of packages ordered through amazon will arrive via a postal carrier where I am.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by pests on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:29AM (#34992328)
In turn USPS uses FedEx for international and (maybe not anymore) for overnight deliveries to certain destinations.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by euroderf on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:49AM (#34993518)
Seems like a sensible division of labor. So what's the catch ?
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by starkparker on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:30AM (#34992329)
They're Kyburz DXP trikes, specially designed for Australia Post: https://www.kyburz-asia.com/delivery-vehicles/dxp-au

120kg load capacity (270kg with trailer), 50kph max speed, 50-100km range. Curb weight is 315kg, total vehicle weight is 510kg.

For comparison, the USPS NGDV requirements were for a vehicle that could carry a loaded Kyburz DKP (minimum payload capacity of 680kg in 155 cubic ft) at twice the top speed (97kph) for longer operating ranges (110km minimum), all with an 18-29°C cabin temperature range at ambient temps of −34°-49C.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by jjallen on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:27AM (#34992681)
Yeah they use bikes in Switzerland but the temperature range (at least in The Valley part and not the mountains) is pretty narrow compared to the US. Basically -5C to 30C
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by excalibur on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:41AM (#34992778)
> Reliable deliveries with all-weather protection. The roof over the DXP AU provides great visibility and protection against the wind and rain.

Calling BS on this. Anything more than a light drizzle (or any kind of wind + rain combo) and that driver is getting wet.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by angry_octet on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:43AM (#34992791)
You know they have to get out to deliver letters and parcels? They have a solution and it's called a rain coat.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by oblio on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:39AM (#34993099)
True, but full cover would probably reduce the amount of exposure from, say, 80% to 10%, during a bad day.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by robertlagrant on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:10AM (#34993301)
> They have a solution and it's called a rain coat.

So you're agreeing with previous commenter that the description is incorrect?

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by angry_octet on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:44AM (#34993487)
Additional protection would keep them 99% dry instead of 90% dry even in a storm. Right up to the point where they have to deliver a letter, where they would be 0% dry.

It's more important to be able to get in and out easily.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by robertlagrant on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:19AM (#34994476)
I'm wondering whether you agree with the commenter that the claim about the vehicle in this regard is likely exaggerated.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by angry_octet on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:20PM (#35002236)
"Protection" does not mean absolutely proof against. But even more, "calling BS" implies that the statement is not just wrong, but deceptive, and I completely disagree with that premise. (Which is additionally a claim it would be idiotic for them to make for an occupant likely wearing a rain coat.)
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by vallassy on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:19AM (#34993723)
I feel like being pedantic for a moment. Our suburban posties don't get off the bike to deliver the letters, they ride up alongside the letterbox and deliver the letters right from the vehicle, as can be seen in the link in the GGP comment. They also deliver small parcels that will fit in a standard letterbox.

You are quite right though, as soon as the rain starts, they're in full wet gear. Bright yellow, you can't miss them.

Suburban parcel delivery is specifically taken care of by Startrack, an Auspost subsidiary, usually in a trusty Toyota Hiace van.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by viraptor on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:53AM (#34993927)
Photo for reference. If it rains they're ready.

https://kagi.com/proxy/Australia-Post-trials-three-wheeled.j...

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by _kulang on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:56AM (#34993211)
Sure. They used to use motorcycles though. So the comparison is a little more favourable against a postie bike
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by 14 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:43AM (#34993126)
Wow that is faster than I expected since they are 3 wheeled. Honda stopped producing 3 wheeled trikes because they were far too easy to tip over during cornering and many people died. These things look like they could do the same if not careful. I hope they give employees lots of training.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by vanderZwan on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:00AM (#34993239)
Yeah the weight distribution looks like it's pretty top-heavy when fully loaded, doesn't it? And it's not like it's a Carver that compensates for all of that whenever you take a turn (sadly), so I'd be very cautious while driving it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4wzBYmTIo

[1] https://www.carver.earth/en/

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by wartijn_ on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:32AM (#34995419)
It looks like the battery is in the bottom of the vehicle. Since batteries are really heavy I assume the weight distribution won't be too bad.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by sbm_au on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:37AM (#34994574)
I can say they do give Australia Post riders lots of training.

I have a relative who did rider and driver training for learners. As well as the general public, they also ran Australia Post training courses which were large, regular, and took a lot of time.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by WalterBright on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:58AM (#34993224)
Why does that need to be specially designed? It looks general purpose to me!
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by xgb84j on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:28AM (#34993401)
I heard of state tenders where they basically have some minimum requirements that have to be met and otherwise choose the cheapest option. For a large amount of vehicles it is probably cheapest to design one that meets all the minimum requirements exactly.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by WalterBright on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:47PM (#34999089)
When Seattle started with light rail, they ordered custom cars that were "specially designed for the Pacific Northwest". Nobody was ever able to explain what was special about the PNW and light rail cars. But hey, it cost a lot of money!
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by starkparker on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:10PM (#35000297)
There were two major differences from the stock Kinkisharyo cars, one technical, one political:

- Most North American light rail systems use 750V electrification, Sound Transit used 1500V to reduce the number of substations.[1]

- The cars arbitrarily had to be assembled at Boeing in Everett "because of a 'Buy American' requirement written into the Kinkisharyo International contract ... Federal grant money is being used to help pay for the light-rail fleet, which means a percentage of the rail cars must be built in the U.S. and that final assembly must take place in Sound Transit's service district".[2]

Seattle's cars also used 70% low-floor access for ADA accessibility and included more bike racks, which isn't unique now but were both relatively novel at the time.[3]

1: https://web.archive.org/web/20150924022530/http://www.global...

2: https://web.archive.org/web/20070524112643/http://www.herald...

3: http://www.kinkisharyo.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/S...

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by vanderZwan on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:07AM (#34993282)
I don't really understand why they went with a one-size-has-to-fit-all solution here when there's such a high variety of climates and terrains in the US.

Or is the idea to start with these where appropriate and develop other vehicles for more extreme climates?

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mschuster91 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:12AM (#34993670)
> I don't really understand why they went with a one-size-has-to-fit-all solution here when there's such a high variety of climates and terrains in the US.

Makes logistics cheaper if you only have one model to take care of, and since these are bespoke vehicles you'll also save on costs because the factory only has to build one variation.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mcv on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:42AM (#34993860)
Dutch postal service PostNL has a wide variety of vehicles ranging from trucks to bicycles. And as far as I know, bicycles have always been a big part of the last few miles of mail delivery here.

https://www.postnl.nl/over-postnl/pers-nieuws/beeldmateriaal...

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by jonasdegendt on Thursday March 02, 2023 @05:35AM (#34994192)
They have all these vehicles but what's actually being used in practice in the Netherlands for last mile deliveries?

I'm in the city center of a large Belgian city and 99% of my deliveries from both BPost and PostNL are still the regular white panel vans, even though both have local sorting centers.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by vanderZwan on Thursday March 02, 2023 @07:02AM (#34994725)
Well, I can't find any numbers on that right now (although I'm sure they're on-line somewhere) but where my family lives in the Netherlands it's mostly bikes. One of my sister delivers mail on one too.

Perhaps the policy is different in Belgium?

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mcv on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:02AM (#34995142)
It's entirely possible that Belgium is different. PostNL has also always had cars and vans, but I've also seen them use bikes of various types for as long as I can remember. Of course before the advent of cargo bikes and especially cargo e-bikes, bikes were of course mostly limited to delivering letters, but they definitely did that. Lately they've been moving to bigger and bigger cargo bikes, presumably in order to use less cars, even for larger packages.

But they also used bikes way back when they were still called PTT: https://www.transportfiets.net/2007/06/27/postfietsen-van-de... https://i.pinimg.com/474x/5c/00/9f/5c009f57703d05c367078d55e...

But on this search, I can even spot some Belgian mail deliverers on bicycles: https://www.google.com/search?q=postbode+op+fiets

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by vanderZwan on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:06AM (#34995772)
I suspect that the rise of on-line shopping has also drastically increased the need for cars then
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mcv on Thursday March 02, 2023 @11:20AM (#34997703)
Oh definitely! Sending/receiving large packages used to be rare. Mail ordering has existed for a while, but didn't really explode to replace nearly all of retail until the rise of webshops.

And I've seen lots of discussions about whether it's wasteful to have things delivered to your door instead of buying it at a central shop, or that it's actually efficient to have a single van deliver all of that stuff instead of having everybody get in their own car to drive to the shop. I guess it depends on whether you need a car to go to the shop or not.

In any case, there's lots of experimentation with ever larger cargo bikes in order to try to keep city deliveries by bike. Still, we do get a lot of delivery vans in our street.

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mrsuprawsm on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:38AM (#34995464)
In Rotterdam, PostNL delivers the mail or packages that fit through the letterbox using someone on a bike (they're usually walking their bike, but that's beside the point I guess).

Packages are delivered by a PostNL guy driving a white van (or, more accurately, a subcontractor using their own rented non-PostNL branded van, but wearing a PostNL uniform)

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by LeanderK on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:13AM (#34995852)
In germany, in my smaller city, there's the usual bigger van handing out parcels but it is complemented by a fleet of smaller vehicles (e-bikes, those super small vans etc.) handing out letters and smaller packages. They probably sort it by size or something locally and distribute it onto the vehicles. The smaller vehicles visit me more often.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by vanderZwan on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:08AM (#34995791)
Given the lack of safe bike infrastructure in the U.S. I can't blame their postal service for not wanting to endanger the lives of their drivers though, so the lack of (cargo) bikes is hardly surprising.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by screwturner68 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @09:41AM (#34996211)
I think a lot of it has to do with density. In the urban areas of the US mail carriers walk, lot sizes are small (8-10m) so getting on an off a bike every 30 seconds doesn't make much sense. In the rural areas it could me a mile or more between houses. They both can use the same truck, in urban areas they just park it in a central location and refill their bag as needed then drive it back to the shop when done.
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by singeezie on Thursday March 02, 2023 @05:57AM (#34994343)
I agree I was in a very very humid jungle like atmosphere near Cambodia and certain EV cars work better in this environment than others where u can adjust certain parameters so that humidity doesnt wear and tear certain components
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by wazoox on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:14AM (#34993681)
La Poste in France went to Ligier for its 3-wheelers: https://www.ligier.fr/product/pulse-3/
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by mcv on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:45AM (#34993882)
That looks like it can carry less than a simple cargo bike: https://www.postnl.nl/Images/stadslogistiek-banner_tcm10-223...
Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by badcppdev on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:51AM (#34993914)
Netherlands and Australia have different requirements for postal delivery bikes.

You should really look at the differences in delivery areas, parcel sizes, the location of the post box on a property. They are all different for different countries.

But you're absolutely correct. It looks like it can carry less than a simple cargo bike. :+1:

Re:U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fl... by roflyear on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:49AM (#34995561)
That's cool but would not work for much of the US. The NYC - DC area is a huge % of our population and that wouldn't work there at all for like 50% of the year really.