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Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by ClumsyPilot on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:00PM (#34040317)
Ah damn, I hoped for a fair experiment to demonstrate absordity of total free speech, but istead we got bog standard hypocracy! Boo!

If you are caught wondering why some people still support Elon - in 'true conservative' society, like Russia or Saudi states, hypocracy is means of demonstrating hierarchy.

So as a leader, you show that you are dominant by demonstrating that rules don't apply to you. That makes you even more of a strongman and grows your support.

So if you are a fan of strongmen, stamping out dissent and competition is exactly the expected behaviour.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by tlogan on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:11PM (#34040524)
I genuinely believed that he would try to allow more free speech on Twitter. There was a small chance that the experiment will succeed.

I guess he never wanted that: he just lied. But why?

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by wfaler on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:42PM (#34041097)
Not sure he lied. I think he fooled himself into thinking that moderating a social media platform can be done on a rose-tinted ideological basis. Then reality hit, and the fact is, there are so many edge-cases that being ideologically consistent is almost impossible.

Moderation is hard. And it matters, both to keep audiences & advertisers. Besides, First Amendment-based moderation is not even possible for an international company. Most of Europe have strict laws on holocaust-denial. Thailand & the UK have laws banning speech offensive to their royal families.

..etc, etc..

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by alasdair_ on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:08PM (#34041528)
>Thailand & the UK have laws banning speech offensive to their royal families.

The UK may technically have some old law on the books stating this but it's never enforced. I mean, the Sex Pistols ("God save the queen... A fascist regime...") demonstrated this quite convincingly.

I did hear about someone getting arrested for yelling at Prince Andrew in a funeral procession, but that was for breach of the peace during a funeral and (importantly) was thrown out in court.

Growing up, I saw plenty of posters with words like "The great Royal debate: should we hang them, or should we shoot them?" and no one cared in the slightest.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by wfaler on Sunday December 18, 2022 @05:39PM (#34044680)
The UK royal family has pretty wide control over what can and cannot be said about them in the media.

There is for instance, many stories about royal improprieties that have been covered up in recent years, in exchange for “juicy” Harry & Meghan stories being circulated in their place. This is probably at the core of the schism within the royal family. I can read about it, because I’m not in the UK. Bet it’s not very well covered in the UK though.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by tompagenet2 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:23PM (#34040712)
Because he's always been an insecure child, who says what he thinks will make him popular or stand out to a group of acolytes. Sometimes that'll work for a while, sometimes it'll really help, but over time you get more cocksure, more convinced of your own greatness and more foolish.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by wombatpm on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:41PM (#34042004)
My wife always thought him to be a jerk. I thought he was a visionary. Twitter has proven my wife was correct
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by lolc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @06:26PM (#34045513)
He can be both.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by jrmg on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:30PM (#34040848)
I don’t think he lied. I don’t think it’s even hypocrisy - he just put very little thought into his previous belief and changed his mind.

He’ll do it again later. That’s why you shouldn’t believe what he says. It’s _not_ that he’s _lying_ - he believes what he says when he says it - he just has no care for consistency and will change his mind whenever it looks prudent, without regard for others.

I am not defending this. It may have helped him to business success in the past, but it is severely damaging to interpersonal relationships. It is a terrible way to live a life.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Alex3917 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:55PM (#34041300)
> he just put very little thought into his previous belief and changed his mind.

The sad thing is he'd probably only need to sit down and read a dozen or so books in order to figure out how to make Twitter actually successful, but you know he's going to be too lazy to ever actually do this.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by d23 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @04:10PM (#34043444)
He has repeatedly shown a proclivity for lying, so I don't know why it should be ruled out altogether. And regardless of what the intent or driving motivation was, it's still hypocrisy.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by jrmg on Sunday December 18, 2022 @06:01PM (#34045115)
I'd only accuse someone of hypocrisy if they did one thing while saying another simultaneously.

If someone changes their mind that's not hypocrisy. I want to stick to that definition because to do otherwise seems to be to be disapproving of people's ability to change their mind. People changing their mind is necessary for the political process to work (and for society and friendship in general!)

Elon Musk might indeed be a hypocrite, but I don't think he's necessarily being hypocritical in this case. If he _continues_ to harp on about freedom of speech on Twitter while keeping this policy in place that will be hypocritical though.

[Edit: I'm not trying to defend Musk in general. I think the facts of the current situation, and things he's done in the past, are pretty terrible!]

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by anonymousab on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:24PM (#34040751)
It turns out he's just everything his critics has said he is, and that he is indeed just following his preexisting standard of behavior. That's just how it is sometimes.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Klinky on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:29PM (#34040830)
He lied because it's way more noble to be a "champion of free speech" than a champion of hate speech and far-right rhetoric. Much of the base that buys into this rhetoric hates complexity or nuance. "Unrestrained freedom" is an easy concept to promote, yet impractical to apply rationally, something that those who fully buy into the concept fail to comprehend, as they only subscribe to a surface-level understanding.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by pjc50 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:32PM (#34040903)
> he just lied. But why?

Why not? Lying is cool, fun, makes people like you if you tell them what you want to hear, and even profitable. You can really inflate your stock values by simply lying about what you can achieve. It's not like there will be any negative consequences to this behavior.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by lawn on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:42PM (#34041084)
A pathological liar is lying, I wonder why.

I think the answer here is that he has no idea what he's doing and is making it up as he goes.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by root_axis on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:20PM (#34040685)
> he just lied. But why?

Because lying helped further his narrative in the public which is advantageous to him. Similar to how he lied for years about FSD.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by grogenaut on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:31PM (#34040869)
What is FSD?
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by tremon on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:41PM (#34041072)
Full Self-Driving, aka Tesla's autopilot.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by delecti on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:40PM (#34041057)
"Full Self Driving".
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by ZeroGravitas on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:57PM (#34041333)
Or perhaps more damning, since FSD was a prediction which are notoriously hard, he lied about his academic credentials and immigration status for decades, which is harder to excuse.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by synu on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:14PM (#34040586)
I don’t know if he lied or not but I get the impression he doesn’t have any particular plan, and is just doing / saying whatever comes to mind at any given moment. Who knows, but from the outside it comes across that way.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Yoric on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:28PM (#34040814)
I've been wondering whether he's planning to run for some office (in South Africa? US?). At least, that would make his burning through $44Bn, lying so much and voluntarily antagonizing/ostracizing "the Libs" somewhat logical.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by TheOtherHobbes on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:00PM (#34041383)
I think he's hoping for a run in 2028. Possibly 2024, but that's a little close.

Buying Twitter would be a strategic campaign move.

Of course a lot of people now realise he's an asshole, and he's likely to lose a lot of money on the deal. So maybe that plan won't work out.

It's been a real case study in self-harm. Many who were neutral or positive before - because of Tesla, SpaceX, and some of his other projects - are now varying shades of hostile.

And he's unlikely to win over the fascist vote, because Flynn is going to have that locked up when he emerges from behind Trump's shadow.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Xylakant on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:16PM (#34041645)
> I think he's hoping for a run in 2028. Possibly 2024, but that's a little close.

One of the few requirements to become US president is that you must be a natural born citizen. So Musk is out, as he’s born in Pretoria, South Africa and neither of his parents were US citizens.

https://www.usa.gov/election

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by roflyear on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:43PM (#34042036)
To be president, but plenty of other government positions.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Xylakant on Sunday December 18, 2022 @03:10PM (#34042467)
I doubt Musk would be interested in a mere government position where he has to act on the orders of a boss. Very few of those are open to elections in the first place, so he probably could have one if he just wants it. Apart from having a conflict of interest that would probably bar any reasonable president from offering one.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Yoric on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:28PM (#34041815)
If he runs for office in the US, he may run for governor, but he can't run for president. On the other hand, there are many countries that have less stringent regulations, plus he may run in South Africa.

But that's a wild guess. I introduced this speculation in the thread but for all we know, he's just really bad at handling frustration and that's how it manifests.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by _djo_ on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:43PM (#34042028)
He would never run for office in South Africa, where he has no remaining serious ties, no support base, and no popularity amongst the general population.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by MandieD on Sunday December 18, 2022 @05:17PM (#34044217)
Ted Cruz (Republican senator from Texas) comes up for re-election in 2024. Couple of remarks about Cancun every time the weather gets a bit chilly, update some of the fun memes from the 2016 presidential primary... and maybe Cruz himself is considering another go at the White House.

Or perhaps that was the situation at the beginning of this year, and one of Musk's motivations for moving to Texas, beyond his previously-stated ones.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by admax88qqq on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:02PM (#34041445)
I don't think there's any 4D chess going on here with Twitter.

He signed the deal when the market was way up. He was probably riding high and overconfident on his wealth. The market corrected, his wealth dropped and he tried damn hard to get out of the deal. Turns out the deal was hard to get out of so he's trying to make the best of it.

I think he's earnestly trying to make Twitter successful and profitable. This is just his best effort.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Yoric on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:34PM (#34041897)
That's entirely possible.

If it's the case, it's just... sad.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by les_diabolique on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:15PM (#34040602)
Because he's our generation's P.T. Barnum
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by acdha on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:37PM (#34040994)
He’s thrown in as a movement conservative. You could tell because what he described as infringements on freedom of speech weren’t just wrong but consistently inaccurate matching the ways they were portrayed in the right-wing media.

I’m not sure what galvanized him but have wondered whether it is as simple as the transgender rumors (Grimes, his daughter) being true. Given his wealth it’d be natural for him to be a low tax/regulation Republican but he’s clearly way more motivated by the culture war and the QAnon end at that. Taking this as a personal affront would explain him being so willing to risk everything else just to hurt the people he sees as enemies.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by maxbond on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:53PM (#34041259)
I'd point out his positions are reactionary, not conservative. He doesn't want to preserve an existing state of affairs, he wants to counter recent progressive movements. The old guard politician from Chesterton's fence, the prototypical conservative in my mind, would view someone who wanted to put the fence back up, after the matter has been exhaustively litigated and the fence taken down, as just as if not more foolish than the politician who had wanted to take it down without understanding.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by freejazz on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:27PM (#34041807)
You are just describing the current US conservative party...
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by maxbond on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:35PM (#34041907)
The Republican Party are distinct from the concept of conservative and reactionary politics. They practice both. As do the Democratic Party for that matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary

(See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism)

It's useful to tease these concepts apart so we can better understand & critique certain policy positions. When Democrats vocally oppose student loan forgiveness, they are practicing conservative politics, for instance. It's not simply that Republicans are reliably conservative and Democrats are reliably progressive.

And there are many other forms of politics, these are just the most prevalent in US politics today.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by freejazz on Sunday December 18, 2022 @09:13PM (#34047473)
>"The Republican Party are distinct from the concept of conservative and reactionary politics."

Conceptually, yeah. In reality, it's the "conservative" party and they practice "reactionary" politics.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by acdha on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:06PM (#34041495)
Fair point. Common usage of those terms is definitely muddled.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by maxbond on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:24PM (#34040735)
I'm not being hyperbolic when I say I believe the explanation is that Musk is a fascist. Fascism is notoriously difficult to define, but what I mean here is that Musk ultimately believes only in the will to power; all stated principles will ultimately be abandoned at the time when they conflict with his will to gain & maintain power. You can compare this to Trump; Trump excoriated Clinton over her handling of classified information wrt her email server, but not only did many Trump administration officials (including his children) make similar mistakes, but we've seen with the document scandal that he had no regard for classified information when it suited him to keep them in an unlocked closet space. (This is not to defend Clinton; I have no interest in doing so.)

So Musk talked about being a free speech absolutist, until such a time as he felt threatened by it. The only thing Musk actually believes is that he is the most deserving person to wield power, and because he the most deserving, anything he does in support of that is justified. He can justify it by saying, I'm making humanity an interplanetary species, and in doing so I will save billions of lives.

(He won't make us an interplanetary species, his plans for colonizing Mars are gibberish, nothing he does is truly justified.)

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by faeriechangling on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:30PM (#34040853)
>he just lied. But why?

People are gullible. It was pointed out by many parties the various ways he had suppressed the speech of others over the years, especially of his workers. Yet just because Elon Musk said he was for free speech, people believed him. Yet it would be unreasonable to expect somebody who doesn't especially value speech in the workplace to make twitter more pro-speech. Musk is not some civil libertarian.

I think honestly the history of social media is sites which started out with close to a policy of free speech absolutism slowly changing as cracks appeared. Jack Dorsey is gone, Aaron Schwartz is dead, Zuckerberg is in decline. The experiment already happened and speech gradually became more and more curtailed.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by scythe on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:33PM (#34040920)
The only remotely plausible explanation that isn't plain narcissism on Elon's part is the hypothesis I found on Matt Levine's blog (which he credited to someone I forget): Elon, by positioning himself as a conservative, hopes to convince Republicans to buy Teslas (and his other products).

There are a variety of problems with that approach — not least that he'd be aiming for the primary targets of oil company propaganda.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by Yoric on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:39PM (#34041966)
Alternative possibility (which, to clarify, is just a random idea of mine, not even a hunch): he sees himself as some sort of political figure, either as a candidate or as a kingmaker – just the position that, if I understand correctly, Trump has lost a few weeks ago.

For that kind of use, owning Tweeter, with absolute control on content and a user base stoked up on anger against "the Libs", "the pedophiles", "the establishment", "the deep state", etc. would be invaluable.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by MrMan on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:32PM (#34040888)
as the parent said, look into the personalities and games played by dictators over the last 120 years. maybe common threads.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by dbspin on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:14PM (#34040591)
Musk has a long track record of lying about his intentions and his products prospects. It appears he plays the part of an authentic well intentioned engineer whose principles and good sense override his politeness, well enough to fool a huge number of people.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by yongjik on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:58PM (#34041360)
I don't think Musk calculated that much, but a lot of people who cheered for Musk "because he was for free speech," are still cheering for Musk because... whatever. Because it's his company now and he can do whatever he wants and that's good?

(I mean, just skim through this whole comment thread.)

So, in the end, it doesn't matter whether he was for absolute free speech or not. At least not to Musk. And a lot of Musk fans.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by KerrAvon on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:00PM (#34041381)
Asking why he lied is like asking why the clouds rained on you. This is exactly the same mistake people make with Trump: you think he’s actually a human being who feels emotions and responds to them like the rest of us. But he’s really a sociopathic narcissist. They aren’t like us; they are purely driven by the drive for adulation and attention, and their lives as presented to us are fictional to the extent that they can get away with it.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by omoikane on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:00PM (#34041390)
Lying leads to anger, and anger leads to engagement.

For some reason, most online communities appear to be fueled by stimuli that are exact opposite of what we find in healthy real life communities. It seems difficult to grow a social network with just positive feedback.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by freejazz on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:02PM (#34041436)
Because you would have never supported him if he told the truth.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by drdaeman on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:20PM (#34040669)
Honestly, this. I wasn't expecting much but was hoping that at least Elon has some unorthodox idea to try. What he promised wasn't supposed to work, but no matter who he is and what he believes in, I had to give him some respect - dude had actually put his money (lawsuit or not) where his mouth was, and that's a commendable thing.

Except that... I really don't like roasting people - that's just faux pas, so I'll rather say that what he does makes no sense to me, and I fail to see the correspondence between Elon's past statements and current actions. Which makes me disappointed.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by guerrilla on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:41PM (#34041076)
> dude had actually put his money (lawsuit or not) where his mouth was, and that's a commendable thing.

No he didn't. He was forced to.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by KerrAvon on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:51PM (#34041231)
Nobody forced him into committing to buy Twitter in the first place. What they forced him to do was follow through on that commitment per the contract he signed.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by guerrilla on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:14PM (#34041621)
Exactly, my point is he literally tried to refuse to put his money where his mouth was. He said some bullshit and tried to back out. This is nothing deserving of respect.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by cpsns on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:38PM (#34041964)
Somehow people are still trying to convince themselves Musk is a good, virtuous guy. It probably has a lot to do with them not being able to admit they were wrong, or that they bought his PR bullshit.

The reality is he's an awful person who in this case is the proverbial dog that caught the car.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by manderley on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:59PM (#34041380)
We have to "commend" him for saying that he wanted to buy Twitter and then (after some legal troubles) following through? Why?
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by drdaeman on Monday December 19, 2022 @10:30AM (#34053199)
No, don't get me wrong please. I said that it is my personal belief that if someone puts their money where their mouth is, it's a commendable thing. Like, in general. But I haven't said that anyone else should hold this belief or specifically hold it towards Elon.

In his case, I totally agree that backpedaling hard doesn't really makes him look good. Still, personally, at the time, I was still thinking "well, okay, he paid for it, that's something I can respect, he told some intriguing promises, let's see what he does what he bought", giving him a benefit of doubt.

And then I've said that I fail to see any consistency between his words and actions. Basically, "I used to think he'd try something interesting and I'm disappointed that I don't see it".

That's about it. I most certainly did not mean to endorse him, or anything like that. Just echoed a disappointment and shared an anecdote - what I used to think and what I think today. Sorry if that sounded weird.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by MrMan on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:31PM (#34040875)
great comment this drama is from the authoritarian playbook
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by notacoward on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:10PM (#34040521)
Yeah, you nailed it. People who let loyalty/fandom/whatever override principles had a weak grasp on principles to begin with.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by teawrecks on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:05PM (#34040405)
Aw man! No one could have seen this coming!
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by nopenopenopeno on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:10PM (#34040508)
And we should criticize historical communist leaders accordingly, instead of criticizing socialism whole cloth.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by noirscape on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:47PM (#34041179)
This is always how it goes. Free speech absolutists that run web communities basically always stop short the moment they feel like they are under threat (regardless of any actual threat).

Even the most infamous of free speech platforms will just ban users who hurt the admins feelings. Back when Gab switched over to using a hostile fork of Mastodon for a backend[0], Torba banned the users of FreeSpeechExtremist (a Pleroma instance with well... the exact kinda ruleset the name would imply) from being able to interact with users on the Gab test instance (they hadn't figured out how to disable federation at the time). The crime of FSE in this particular case? Ridiculing Gab users for paying money to access basic features that any other Mastodon/Pleroma instance could give them for free.

I can list off quite a few other examples of notable "free speech zones" doing this sorta thing, but really it's not worth shining a light on most of them. It's always "free speech for me, not for thee" with these people. And the dumbest part is that if they were just open about it instead of bloviating about how supposedly important they think free speech absolutism is, I don't think most people would pay them any mind. You don't get this anger when the rules include in a clearly written way: "if I don't like what you're doing, for any reason, you're out" (also known as the escape hatch clause).

It's when you write the rules in abstract ways that are supposed to be "fair" that you get this problem, and especially if you're bloviating about how the only rule you supposedly believe in is the right to free speech and "US law" (the only concession usually put in writing by these absolutists). Because then people will start beholding you to that level of enforcement and they will ridicule you for being a hypocrite on that ideal.

[0]: Curious aside - Gab is not on the banned social media list. Wonder if Musk seeks that audience.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by richbell on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:50PM (#34041216)
> This is always how it goes. Free speech absolutists that run web communities basically always stop short the moment they feel like they are under threat (regardless of any actual threat).

Years ago, I was banned from a "free speech" / skeptic subreddit because I corrected someone who turned out to be the head mod.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by wstuartcl on Sunday December 18, 2022 @02:32PM (#34041870)
That's the thing, free speech is not something that exists in society -- there are always ramifications/costs for speech. Free speech does exist as a protection from government oversight of ideas -- but even in this case there are limits (yelling fire in a theater).

Anyone claiming they are all about unlimited free speech on any platform is either delusional or lying -- the market costs (and laws) will always impact speech in the best case, and the people running the site will always hit their limits. It always devolves into "free speech (for some definition of free that I define as free)".

In twitters case, free speech is limited by the whims of musk's thin skin on one hand while open for concepts he agrees with like hate, antisemitic and racist alt right junk.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by SahAssar on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:52PM (#34041252)
> Even the most infamous of free speech platforms will just ban users who hurt the admins feelings.

Out of curiosity: did 4chan ever try to ban anyone for talking about moot?

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by noirscape on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:55PM (#34041312)
4chan surprisingly is not a free speech platform, nor did it ever pretend to be.

It has fairly bog-standard rules about not being a hateful jerk, it's just that enforcement of those rules is pretty spotty so the sites users consist mostly of hateful jerks.

For a more specific example; 4chan remains the only site to actually ban discussion of gamergate (and then discussion of the subsequent user blowback towards moot) due to it being a harassment campaign.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by SahAssar on Sunday December 18, 2022 @04:15PM (#34043507)
Was the ban specifically around criticism of moot or gamergate in general?
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by admax88qqq on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:58PM (#34041347)
4chan bans are notoriously ineffective. Since you don't have an account or identity worth banning, most bans are up blocks which are pretty easy to circumvent undetected.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by SahAssar on Sunday December 18, 2022 @04:07PM (#34043396)
That's why I said try. They could ban IPs or at the very least block tripcodes. I'm not aware of them trying to do so in response to criticism of moot or other owners.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by admax88qqq on Monday December 19, 2022 @12:57AM (#34048982)
There's screenshots floating around of people's bans for completely arbitrary reasons. Don't know if they're legit.
Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by LarryMullins on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:14PM (#34046895)
Probably, though I couldn't point to any particular instance. People definitely catch short "off-topic" bans for shit-talking the jannies though.

Most of 4chan is moderated, but poorly, inconsistently, and capriciously. Each board has its own set of rules, which are sometimes enforced and sometimes not, with different enforcement rates on different boards. Also there are global rules which are generally not enforced, except when they are.

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by haberman on Sunday December 18, 2022 @03:38PM (#34042992)
> It's always "free speech for me, not for thee" with these people.

That's what pretty much everybody is doing at this point.

Elon's critics rightly point out the problems with his arbitrary rule by fiat, but who among his critics are proposing anything more principled than his behavior? By and large, people are calling him a hypocrite without articulating any more principled vision for how social media platforms should be run.

> You don't get this anger when the rules include in a clearly written way: "if I don't like what you're doing, for any reason, you're out" (also known as the escape hatch clause).

This sounds like basically codifying the current Elon Musk mode of governance. Are you really suggesting that the Internet would be better if every social media site was operated in this way, as long as it is explicit in the rules?

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by noirscape on Sunday December 18, 2022 @03:53PM (#34043210)
> Elon's critics rightly point out the problems with his arbitrary rule by fiat, but who among his critics are proposing anything more principled than his behavior? By and large, people are calling him a hypocrite without articulating any more principled vision for how social media platforms should be run.

Most people aren't supplying anything more principled. The reality of it is that it's REALLY DIFFICULT to run a generic-purpose social media platform. Twitter, pre-Musk takeover, had a whole bunch of teams, working groups, councils and employees whose task was to basically try to reduce the effects of Masnick's Impossibility Theorem[0] as much as possible. It is an established fact that Musk threw out the majority of these groups shortly after he took over the site.

The main reason people call Musk a hypocrite is because he was also very vocal about what he wanted to replace those policies with: unbridled free speech, with the only limitation being the law. He has not publicly abandoned this principle yet and to the contrary, still occasionally barks up the accounts of some far right users about how he's going to "restore free speech" on Twitter. By all public accounts, he's still believing in that idea, whilst also transparently setting policies on stuff that very much doesn't align with that belief (see this policy change, the recent banning of ElonJet and so on and so forth).

> This sounds like basically codifying the current Elon Musk mode of governance. Are you really suggesting that the Internet would be better if every social media site was operated in this way, as long as it is explicit in the rules?

It probably would be. I think it would actually improve the general state of the internet if people were aware more that the sites they use are effectively ran on the whimsy of other people. A lot of people live under the illusion that one singular website is supposed to be their free room to dump whatever thoughts they want. This idea both goes against the original goal of the internet and does not line up with reality. Codifying this sort of thing matters more than you think. It means people know where they stand. Nowadays this stuff still largely exists in the Terms of Services of most sites (not to mention that a big part of free speech is not a requirement to host anyone else), but being more open about that would be a much better move for transparency reasons.

So uh... yes? I am explicitly advocating for the implosion of generic purpose social media, I think what it has done on a broader scale is extremely damaging to society.

[0]: https://www.techdirt.com/2019/11/20/masnicks-impossibility-t...

Re:Promotion of alternative social platforms policy by haberman on Sunday December 18, 2022 @04:09PM (#34043417)
It sounds like a recipe for a world of unfettered tribalism, where every space has explicit in-groups and out-groups, and nobody ever has to come into contact with someone who will challenge their beliefs, and where group shibboleths (even grievously false ones) are never corrected.

The world needs places where people can discover new information that goes against their beliefs. For people to be receptive to taking in new information, it needs to happen in a forum where there is a basic modicum of civility and mutual respect, where people are rewarded for taking down the temperature rather than flaming. Otherwise we might as well write down our 2022 beliefs in stone, as closed to future revision.