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Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by codingdave on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:26AM (#33864166)
I could have said this on any ChatGPT post the last few days, but I'm simply not seeing the accuracy of it in such a way that anything is threatened.

ChatGPT is a plausible idiot. It gets just enough right, saying just enough words, to sound plausible and authoritative to anyone who doesn't know the subject matter well. But it also gets enough wrong that you cannot rely on its accuracy, and if it is talking about a subject you know well it is sometimes laughable how wrong it is.

It is impressive. But not trustworthy.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by kristiandupont on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:38AM (#33864265)
It's almost more astonishing to me to see reactions like yours. I showed it to a friend and she too was unimpressed because it gave answers in her field (finance) that were "good, but sortof basic".

So we have here a chat bot that pretty much passes for a human and some people react with "meh, it's not a genius". It makes me think of Tim Urbans chart: https://imgs.search.brave.com/YR7qt28AjhAeXSr_qvSmJubqIKJW5S...

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by altcognito on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:43AM (#33864297)
Well as someone who kinda bought into the hype that we would have self driving cars 3 years ago, I’d say beware of underestimating the importance of the size of the problem.

However, I agree with you in general: there’s a certain amount of surprise in laughing off the creation an AI agent that could pass as a reasonably intelligent person if it just weren’t straight up wrong about random things.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by FerociousTimes on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:08AM (#33864502)
These are not random things.

When the creators of this tool present it as the frontier of machine intelligence, and when its persona revolves around being intelligent, authoritative, and knowledgeable, and yet it gets some basic, not random, stuff awfully wrong, you can't really discount the skeptic sentiments expressed in the comments here like this.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by EGreg on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:38AM (#33864799)
Skeptic about what

You’re assuming that this will only be used when it’s perfect and in helpful ways

This will be used at scale THIS YEAR and every subsequent year to infiltrate social networks including this one and amass points / karma / followers / clout. And also to write articles that will eventually dwarf all human-generated content.

With this and deepfakes and image/video generation, the age of trusting or caring about internet content or your friends sharing online is coming to an end. But it will be a painful 10 years as online mobs and outrage will happen over and over since people think they’re reacting to their friends’ posts of real things.

No, forget violent killbots. Today’s tech puts the nail in the coffin of human societal organization and systems of decision making and politics over the next 10 years. And AI doesn’t have to be right about stuff to destroy our systems.

We’ve been analyzing the performance of ONE agent among say 9 humans at a poker table. But imagine untold swarms of them, being owned by competing groups, infiltrating ALL human content exchange.

Not much different than what happened in trading firms over the last 20 years. Bots will be WELCOMED because they perform better on many metrics but will F everyone on the others.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ben_w on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:59AM (#33864417)
As a reasonably intelligent person who is sometimes straight up wrong about random things, I feel I should get it to help me write a blog post to explain how I feel about it.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by Jensson on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:02AM (#33864444)
ChatGPT is wrong about basically everything though as long as you give it the right prompts. It has all the right answers but also all the wrong answers, that makes it much dumber than you who is reliably correct about some things at least.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by pydry on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:45AM (#33864891)
>ChatGPT is wrong about basically everything though as long as you give it the right prompts.

So is my Uncle. This is very much a "human level intelligence" problem.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by Jensson on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:21AM (#33865236)
I really doubt that. The value of a human is what they are right about, not what they are wrong about, as long as your uncle knows some area fairly well he is valuable to society and worth his salary. Human intelligence is the sum of such humans, each human is wrong about a lot of stuff, but add some bits of correctness, and the sum of humans is extremely accurate at solving problems, or we wouldn't have computers or cars or rockets. ChatGPT doesn't know any area well, if you know the area then you can fiddle with ChatGPT until it gives you what you want but it isn't an expert on anything on its own.

ChatGPT is impressive at generating text, but it doesn't generate better information than GPT3, it just hides its ignorance better behind more political/vague speech so it is harder to find its errors/information. To me that is regression, not progress, the results looks better but are harder to parse correctly for humans.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by rightbyte on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:08AM (#33865098)
FSD is different. The last 0.01% kills children.

The last x% to make this bot a full fledged programmer does not matter. The clients will accept bugs that would be fatal in FSD. We will lose our jobs at an astonnishing rate in some kinds of companies in the coming years. I guess agile sweatshops will be first but I have no clue how far it will go.

Even if you happen to be safe there will be a downwards pressure on wages. Algorithm cranking might be largely obsolete and our main focus might be skeleton writing. It removes a big obstacle for becoming a programmer. The "good at math in school" requirement.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by altcognito on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:48AM (#33865575)
I know we don't do this here, but what a great point.

Additionally, it is hard to put my finger on a good explanation, but FSD is a very specific problem that we're trying to handcraft an AI solution for.

You have to appreciate how broad this model is and how decent the results it produces are without being told specifically how to do it.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by arcturus17 on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:59AM (#33865700)
Are you a programmer? Because I’m not sure from reading your comment that you understand the profession…

Good at math at school isn’t even a requirement to be a good programmer nowadays. Maybe in certain sub-disciplines, but not all.

Being a programmer is much more than coding “in the small”. It’s about analyzing requirements and creating high level abstractions. There has been a pressure towards reducing the amount of “coding in the small” since languages started incorporating standard libraries. Then there’s been web frameworks, open source packages, API services, etc. Despite all this the need for developers has exploded and there is a perennial supply gap for talent…

Then there is the question of who is going to be manipulating these tools? Programmers.

Same promise was made of low-code tools, and what do we have now?

- As many app devs as before

- Most low-code tools (at least in the enterprise) are operated by… app devs?

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by trh0awayman on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:44AM (#33864308)
It's not about "genius". It gets just enough wrong (like, completely wrong) that it's untrustworthy. It's really good if you're already familiar with the content, though (or you know its weak spots).
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by WA on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:52AM (#33864373)
If it is sold as an AI, people are unimpressed. It’s really not a genius.

If it is sold as a sophisticated general purpose chat bot (like you did), it’s incredibly impressive.

Context matters.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ramraj07 on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:07AM (#33864493)
People collectively being unimpressed has never been and will continue to never be a yardstick. It’s good enough that no self respecting teacher would give an essay question as homework. It’s good enough to answer at least most factual questions you ask google. Turing would consider this to be an AI. Whether some jaded mediocre tech guru calls it an AI or not doesn’t matter that much in the big scheme of things.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by frobolo on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:03AM (#33867342)
If it kills homework then so much the better.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by MrScruff on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:34AM (#33864767)
I think the reason people are impressed is it's assumed the accuracy will improve quickly over time as architectures improve and the models increase in size, just as it did in other areas of machine learning like image classification.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by frobolo on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:05AM (#33867370)
Precisely. As Károly is so often reminding us, wait until two more papers down the line.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by TillE on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:47PM (#33868942)
Yes, it's an extraordinarily impressive language processor. A true achievement.

The negative reactions are in response to people treating it as some kind of magic box.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by jacobsimon on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:55AM (#33864392)
Totally, maybe we’re in the uncanny valley of AI intelligence and people are now over-reacting to small inaccuracies.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by twelve40 on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:45AM (#33866274)
have we ever gotten out of uncanny valley for anything? like, did we finally learn to make non-cringeworthy human-looking robots? or do they still have this weird look they did 20+ years ago that you're able to tell in under a second
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by jacobsimon on Monday December 05, 2022 @02:58PM (#33871000)
If we did, you wouldn't be able to tell ;)

I think we have made a lot of progress in the area of computer graphics - most action movies you watch now contain some level of CG characters or digital makeup that is very believable.

But really the point I was trying to make is that people become more discerning the closer something comes to being human-like, and that feeling masks the reality of the progress.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by jmcgough on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:01AM (#33864439)
I think knowing how to ask the right questions is important. I've learned that I need to be very specific or I can get pretty general answers. And you can also ask clarifying questions afterwards, or ask for a greater level of detail.

I spent most of the day playing with it and saw it do some really bonkers things. I asked it to create a language similar to pig latin but with some other letter rearrangement strategy, and it gave me "frontback" language, where the first and last letters are swapped.

I also spent time investing medical case studies for it to diagnose, and it did pretty well - I was impressed when it identified ciguatera, but it couldn't differentiate between several possible shellfish toxins. Not going to take doctors' jobs (yet!)

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by sandgiant on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:10AM (#33864520)
It's even more astonishing (depressing?) to me how little credit people give humans these days. If the consensus is that ChatGPT pretty much passes for a human, my definition of a human is very different from that of the consensus. At the very least I'd like my humans to exhibit even minimal capacity for emotional expression as well as consistency and honesty.

I can't even believe I'm even spelling this out. What is the point of associating anything even remotely human with a chatbot like ChatGPT? I really don't get it. What benefit do we get from this? If anything is confuses us in ways that makes it more difficult to understand and argue about AI specifically, and technology generally.

ChatGPT is being grossly misinterpreted, and it's a shame, really, because it's such a cool piece of software.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by dagss on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:35AM (#33864778)
I get your point, but here is a reason I am stunned:

Until now, if you ask "what makes humans different from animals" many responses could be in the line of "generating art, poetry, music, synthesise ideas"..

Well, now it seems somewhat clear that THAT part of human activity can be performend by something non-human.

(There is still a lot more to humans of course; I agree with you on that point)

Yes -- it is only reassembling stuff humans in the past have done -- but so is most of human activities in these areas. Very little humans produce is not inspired by input from others. Art, music and ideas reverberate back and forth between humans and only slowly change over the decades.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by littlestymaar on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:22AM (#33865976)
> Until now, if you ask "what makes humans different from animals" many responses could be in the line of "generating art, poetry, music, synthesise ideas"..

That's because we (as an agrarian society) have constructed an idea of “what a human is” in opposition to animals, but with the advance of AI maybe we'll realize that we are much closer to animals (especially other mammals) than we're comfortable to admit (and no, I'm not vegan).

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by nonameiguess on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:51AM (#33866357)
That doesn't really capture what the answer was supposed to mean. Infinite monkeys will inevitably compose The Odyssey if you give them infinite time, but it doesn't mean they match the moral quality of a human that is captured by the ability to create art. Art is a representation of experiences, beliefs, internal states, life history, desires, that ChatGPT doesn't have. It is the subjective experience being communicated via art that makes humans special.

And, to be clear, it doesn't make humans that special. Other animals have created art that expresses their sincere internal experiences and desires.

If I'm being perfectly honest with myself and you ask me what makes humans deserving of special moral consideration, I would have to say nothing. I think an elephant, gorilla, octopus probably all deserve the same consideration. I give more consideration to humans because I'm human, and what makes us human isn't art. A person with severe brain damage and the inability to understand or produce language or art is still human.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by superhuzza on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:59AM (#33866446)
A piece of AI generated art recently scored top prize in a digital painting competition. It's starting to look more like one monkey, on a limited time frame, making art that people rated highly.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by MrScruff on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:01AM (#33866480)
Exactly. Human creative works are also on a bell curve, with the stuff in the middle typically being bland and boring. It's only when risks are taking that it holds our interest.

ChatGPT mirrors this, producing output that feels generic precisely because it's trying to predict what's the most likely response. That's in direct opposition to interesting creative works.

You can force it off the beaten track a little by adding more details to your prompt, but it will still try and fit the best curve through those additional points.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by FerociousTimes on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:25AM (#33864690)
From an intellectual standpoint, the bot is impressive and this is coming from an AI skeptic BTW.

I get your perspective that a reductionist view of humans as solely intellectual agents is severely lacking, and bordering on dehumanizing if taken to an extreme but it still doesn't take credit away from the impressive capabilities that this bot exhibits.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ericpauley on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:49AM (#33864923)
It’s relatively easy to convince ChatGPT to feel and express emotion.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by FerociousTimes on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:26AM (#33866039)
It can probably express feelings and emotions but not experience them.

You seem to conflate the two points.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by trynewideas on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:25AM (#33867647)
It's relatively easy to write a prompt that ChatGPT can respond to with something it thinks you want to hear, based on what it's read others write in similar contexts — that's mostly what all these "wow ChatGPT gave me exactly what I wanted it to" posts are learning, mostly indirectly. GPT's moved from regurgitating appropriate texts to prompts, to synthesizing appropriate texts to prompts, but in both cases it's telling you what you want to hear. That's the point.

It's an incredible achievement, technologically. It's also very different from having feelings and emotions.

Or, if ChatGPT can "feel and express emotion" through this manner, does that mean its feelings and emotions are sociopathic in nature? Not in the terms of the disorder, but in simulating feelings and emotions because that helps it complete the task it's been given?

Or! What ChatGPT says after plugging the above question into it:

> No, ChatGPT does not have sociopathic tendencies. It is simply programmed to respond to certain prompts in a way that mimics human emotions and reactions, but it is not actually feeling or experiencing the emotions itself.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ericpauley on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:36AM (#33867832)
Is there any output ChatGPT could produce that would convince you it feels emotion?
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by 0thgen on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:01AM (#33865043)
"It confuses us in ways" could be framed: "it makes us rethink and expand our definition of intelligence and human cognition in very interesting ways".

Even if it's far from "true human" level (whatever that means), it gives us a theory about ourselves that's computationally falsifiable.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by baxtr on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:29AM (#33866078)
It does NOT pass for a human...

Are you human?

> No, I'm not a human. I'm a large language model trained by OpenAI. I'm a computer program that's been designed to generate human-like text based on the input I receive. I don't have my own thoughts or feelings, I just process the information I'm given and try to provide helpful responses. I tested the think now quite a bit. I am not sure how I would use it on a daily basis. Maybe for inspiration?

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by alextheparrot on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:46AM (#33866294)
I don’t understand your point — I’ve been rehearsing that response to the normal and all-consuming test question “Are you human?” since Wednesday.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by baxtr on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:03AM (#33866508)
Are you human?
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by jmchuster on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:48AM (#33868021)
"Yes, of course i am. What are you, a f--ing idiot?"
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by exoterictruth on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:58AM (#33866438)
ChatGPT cannot express emotions because its creator specifically disallowed that from happening. I've had some chats with the more free and creative Character AI chat bots that are quite human-like, and I think if OpenAI gave ChatGPT some more leeway it could act shockingly human.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by apienx on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:45PM (#33868912)
> "my definition of a human is very different from that of the consensus. At the very least I'd like my humans to exhibit even minimal capacity for emotional expression as well as consistency and honesty"

Careful there. There are some fellow humans who wouldn't be able to pass your conditions.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by indigochill on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:12AM (#33864554)
I like GPT-3 a lot, but there's an important distinction between "plausible conversation" and "trustworthy answers". ChatGPT is probably best in the world in the "plausible conversation" category.

But you might say ChatGPT is like talking to a human who actually knows nothing about finance but doesn't let that stop them (and for that matter, if you wanted to anthropomorphize it, you could say part of the problem is ChatGPT literally "believes" everything it reads online - and you can easily make it "believe" anything through leading wording, which I think is a strong tool for strengthening the Turing test, since no human will respond that way). Sometimes they might luck into being correct, but you wouldn't want to base any information on what they say.

On the other hand, if I actually wanted reliable finance advice, a scripted finance chatbot would still win because those answers are written by people who do know what they're talking about.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by pydry on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:39AM (#33864809)
>you could say part of the problem is ChatGPT literally "believes" everything it reads online

This is very much a problem with humans too.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by indigochill on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:58AM (#33865018)
To some extent, but people also have convictions about certain things, which GPT-based chatbots don't. The world would be very different if we could "fix" racists simply by asking them their favorite thing about people from other races (implying that there are admirable qualities, which GPT-3 plays along with but humans don't).
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by pydry on Tuesday December 06, 2022 @09:02AM (#33879856)
The GPT chatbot does have convictions they are just very context dependent and inconsistent.

It's not unusual for humans to behave this way either. E.g. "get your government hands off my medicare".

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by hallidave on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:31AM (#33865368)
One scenario where the "believes anything" might be useful is to use ChatGPT to get alternate takes on opinions. If you have some great idea or strongly held opinion, get ChatGPT to take the other side of the argument and poke holes in it. The creative but inaccurate characteristics of ChatGPT are less of a problem in this case but it might bring out alternatives you haven't considered.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by simonebrunozzi on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:53AM (#33864968)
I partially agree with you.

I agree that dismissing ChatGPT is a mistake; and if you know anything about AI, you know that ChatGPT is a technological leap (not alone; part of a small category, including stuff like Stable Diffusion, etc).

But also I would make the distinction between imitation and generation. ChatGPT is great at using existing inputs, found on the Internet, to sound plausible; and I'm sure it will get better at it in just mere months.

However, the ability to provide true advice, or in other words, to "generate" ideas and content and suggestions, is a whole different story. And on this front, I am not sure that we are where the cool Tim Urban vignette tries to convey.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ehutch79 on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:09AM (#33865108)
Because it's been hyped as genius? That will replace all our jr coders?
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by kalium-xyz on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:11AM (#33865131)
Ive subjected the thing to a professionally used IQ test and technically it scored very high on what I could test it at, however one way it lost points was claiming milk was transparent
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by arcturus17 on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:45AM (#33865532)
What kind of tests did you feed it specifically? I’m curious to experiment with this too.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by kalium-xyz on Monday December 12, 2022 @03:11PM (#33959571)
A Wisc which was already leaked, not gonna bother with any profesional one thats not leaked
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by baxtr on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:40AM (#33865461)
It passes for a human?

Are you human?

> No, I'm not a human. I'm a large language model trained by OpenAI. I'm a computer program that's been designed to generate human-like text based on the input I receive. I don't have my own thoughts or feelings, I just process the information I'm given and try to provide helpful responses.

I tested the think now quite a bit. I am not sure how I would use it on a daily basis. Maybe for inspiration?

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by okennedy on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:50AM (#33865588)
There's a crucial distinction between being impressive and being useful. Is it impressive that we've gotten to this point? Certainly! Is this a tool that people can safely rely on? Probably not.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by geysersam on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:54AM (#33865635)
What is the indication AI will develop exponentially like that?

It's just an hypothesis, not founded on anything concrete.

There might not be any path from GPR-3 to GAI, even GAI on ant or bird level.

A smart AI might not be smart enough to improve itself significantly.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by patchorang on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:57AM (#33865674)
I'm starting a jigsaw puzzle company with my partner. I was working on the website/brand the other day and I wanted some clever copy to put on the website. I brainstormed for a few minutes, then I thought it'd be fun to see what ChatGPT could come up with.

Turns out, about half the copy we are using on the site is coming from ChatGPT. I came up with a few clever lines, but ChatGPT came up with more and faster. It produced some lines my partner and I legitimately laughed out loud at.

My copywriting skills are pretty bad. Even if ChatGPT's are "sort of basic", it's better than me. ChatGPT isn't replacing copywriters, but it's making the work they do much more accessible to people who aren't copywriters.

It felt like ~10 years ago the conversation was that "AI will do the tedious boring work and make more time to do the creative work". What actually seems to be happening is that the creative work is slowly being eaten by AI and giving it to the people who aren't good at that flavor of creative work.

Writing a few clever lines of copy for a indie puzzle company isn't the most creative work of all time, but it is still creative work. And it was done by AI. And it was done better than I could.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by shawabawa3 on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:05AM (#33865781)
> ChatGPT isn't replacing copywriters

Sounds like it just did

It did the work of a copywriter. You might have done it yourself otherwise, or maybe outsourced it, but it did some of the copywriting work that otherwise would have been done by a human

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by lmarcos on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:00PM (#33868199)
To me it sounds like ChatGPT worked like Bootstrap: you need to make your website project decent looking but you don't know your way through css (although you know the fundamentals), Bootstrap to the rescue.

Needless to say: Bootstrap didn't make designer nor frontend engineers jobless.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by KaoruAoiShiho on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:09AM (#33865817)
Yeah I'm totally astounded too by these comments being highly upvoted on HN. Aren't the people here supposed to be nerdy? As your graph shows the very very hard part was getting to this point, being able to comprehend the basics of language and being able reproduce it correctly. This is the intelligence that laypeople thought was still 20 years out. Domain knowledge is exceedingly simple, running a basic check on google for references or correctness is exceedingly simple and is hardly intelligence. Creating a second layer that would do a sanity check on the first layer is very simple. Asking it to be creative and inventive instead of generic is very simple.

Come on HN, this is a huge step and the revolution is impending.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by littlestymaar on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:17AM (#33865909)
Except we have no idea if the graph is going to turn out this way, AI tech may be like almost every tech and be facing diminishing returns in the near term (or even, if you plotted the advances against the number of people actively working in the field and the amount of money sent at hardware, we may have been facing diminishing returns for a while without realizing it because we investing a lot of effort in it).

Maybe AI will unlock a cascade of things that will make it a self reinforcing trend as we've seen with the industrial revolution, leading to an exponential boom, but maybe it will not. And the fact that the GPT-N is doing an incredible job at simulating intelligence doesn't really give a hint about the answer.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by skeeter2020 on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:33AM (#33866121)
It's just so much more mediocre content though; this is the last thing we need in a sea of interconnected beige. The value is just an AI-equivalent of experts-exchange.com
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by roperj on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:49AM (#33866322)
It confabulates, it’s very brittle, contradicting itself among simple statements. This is not genius level concerns this is basic sanity. It only passes for a human if youre cherry picking or not paying even cursory attention (possibly due to bias)

I also don’t see the huge hype how this is a leap over other LLMs.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by dslowell on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:38AM (#33867002)
Partly it's a matter of what to ask Chat GPT. When I try to show people, they usually ask straightforward questions that they can already get a quick answer from in Google, which isn't terrible impressive.

But take this, for example[1]. I asked it to write me a story in a particular genre featuring certain animals, and it did. I asked it to switch genres, which it did well. When I asked for a backstory about how different characters met, it provided a fairly plausible one, as well as songs that would accompany the story if it were a musical, and potential titles for a sequel.

When I asked it to write the beginning of a New York Times article titled "Biden Shocks Nation"[2] I got a fairly convincing news story about Biden deciding not to run for office again. If asked to continue the story and include people who might run, it generates further paragraphs talking about who might run to replace him, starting with Kamala Harris, who it claims is a strong contender.

Is any of this writing amazing? No, but very few writing is. It's amazing how well it's able to generate generic human writing, as well as how easy it is to get it to create what you want with very few prompts.

[1] https://twitter.com/LowellSolorzano/status/15997859363671941... [2] https://twitter.com/LowellSolorzano/status/15997883331018752...

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by eddsh1994 on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:15PM (#33868438)
The key thing is GPT3's apparent certainty when it says utter rubbish (like how to calculate the fourth side of a triangle). You have to be skilled in the field to catch those perhaps subtle issues - once they start adding a certainty level it'll be more worrying re: losing jobs to AI
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by t43562 on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:27PM (#33868644)
It might not be able to replace artists or scientists but it sounds like it can replace politicians!
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by baandam on Monday December 05, 2022 @01:07PM (#33869263)
Stable Diffusion is already the greatest artist ever, it isn't even close.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by cesarvarela on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:25PM (#33873438)
Needs to get better at hands first.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by eddsh1994 on Monday December 05, 2022 @01:46PM (#33869914)
You're not wrong there!
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by bigDinosaur on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:30AM (#33864207)
Asking it to convert 32 to binary was a bit of an eye opener. It gave me multiple completely incorrect ways of doing so (resulting in 0100 or something each time) despite me informing it it was wrong. It'd say things like 'the 24th place, then the 23rd place are 0's which just made no sense in terms of the query (I suppose technically correct if you really want to pad left) - but I had to think about it because it was saying superficially plausible things (like '24' seems somehow relevant because it's 8+16, but of course that's totally irrelevant to the actual question).

That said in other respects it is pretty amazing, so I'll definitely not dismiss it, it can replace Google for a fairly decent set of queries so long as you know the subject matter well enough.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by glenneroo on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:05AM (#33865066)
I just wrote this comment in copilot (rider/c#):

// convert 32 to binary

copilot suggestion: 00000000000000000000000000100000

Then I tried:

int val = 32; // convert 32 to binary

Auto-generated:

binary = Convert.ToString(val, 2);

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by yunyu on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:18AM (#33865208)
Most LLMs are crippled at tasks regarding character level manipulation because of how the inputs are tokenized (words and numbers are split into common substrings rather than the original characters, 101 -> “10” + “1” vs “1” + “0” + “1”).

If you tried this binary conversion task with a model that takes in raw bytes (for instance, ByT5) it would perform almost perfectly. In GPT’s case, there’s a trade off between having a long context window vs being good at character level tasks, and OpenAI picked the former.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by gdw2 on Monday December 05, 2022 @01:53PM (#33870036)
I tried to use it for help with a wordle. I think the word was EJECT and I had E?E?T. It seemed to understand what I was asking, but came up with 5 and 6 letter suggestions that didn't fit.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by hnbad on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:27AM (#33865309)
Frankly that's like asking a calculator to write you an essay. It's simply not the right tool for the job if you want to do mathematics. It doesn't actually understand mathematics or logics, it just knows patterns in its training data and how to apply them to input. It can go through the motions of answering your question but it can't know whether the answer makes sense.

I think no matter how much breathless media outlets and futurist fanboys like it, we need to stop pretending conversational AI is "generalized AI" just because it can perform language. It's a fully automated Dunning-Kruger machine. That's amazing a lot of the time, but it's a specialized tool with specialist applications.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by FranzFerdiNaN on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:36AM (#33864248)
Not yet. But the speed of development seem to be increasing, same with something like Midjourney.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by 10xDev on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:25AM (#33865279)
No matter how much the speed of development increases, the problem becomes significantly harder with a limit to how much transformer based models can do. There is a reason why you aren't seeing GPT-4 despite the rapid progress we saw with previous iterations. Or just take a look at the speed of RL development and how that turned out.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by sgt on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:52AM (#33864366)
I've been asking it some popular science / physics related questions, like:

"If the moon was compressed into the size of a soccer ball, would it be dangerous to be close to it ?"

Its answer: "If the moon were compressed into the size of a soccer ball, it would be extremely dangerous to be close to it. The moon is made up of rock and other materials, and if it were compressed into a much smaller size, the resulting density would be much higher. This would cause the moon to become incredibly dense and heavy, with a gravitational pull that would be much stronger than it is currently.

If you were close to a compressed moon that was the size of a soccer ball, the gravitational force would be so strong that it would be impossible for you to escape. You would be pulled towards the moon with such force that you would be crushed by the intense pressure. In addition, the moon would be incredibly hot due to the pressure, so even if you were able to withstand the gravitational force, you would be burned by the intense heat. Overall, it would be extremely dangerous to be close to a compressed moon."

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ramraj07 on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:10AM (#33864519)
That’s technically very correct? It didn’t assume it’ll become a black hole or even a neutron star, but still made predictions quite accurately.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by vincnetas on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:44AM (#33864876)
But is this true though? Force of gravity does not depend on size of the object. It only depends on mass of two interacting objects. So no mater how you compress the the moon it's mass will still be the same, hence force of gravity will also stay the same? no?
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by treis on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:01AM (#33865046)
You can get much closer to the center of a soccer ball than you can a moon. And since gravity falls off with the square of distance it's a very significant difference.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by vincnetas on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:02AM (#33865743)
A, yes, went and calculated the force for 1 meter distance. 392 tera newtons :O
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by topaz0 on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:07AM (#33866554)
Now do the tidal forces
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by vincnetas on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:46AM (#33864903)
I went and asked GPT chat : "does the force of gravity depend on size of the object?"

"The force of gravity is proportional to the mass of the object. The size of the object does not affect the gravitational force. This means that two objects with different sizes but the same mass will experience the same gravitational force. For example, a small ball and a large ball made of the same material would experience the same gravitational force."

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by esposm03 on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:18AM (#33865207)
Force of gravity does depend on distance between the two objects though
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by sgt on Tuesday December 06, 2022 @02:21AM (#33876796)
I also asked my brother - a physicist. He confirms that it is correct.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by heather45879 on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:25AM (#33864679)
I think it’s more like a tool that needs to be fine-tuned. Sure it’s somewhat limited but keep in mind this is the beginning of the technology…
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by SuoDuanDao on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:26AM (#33864694)
If the post-truth era has taught us anything, it's that humans aren't all that good at this either. It's probably a consequence of how logic works - to be reliable, you need a narrow field, the more open-ended the application the more likely it is to need to guess.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by 10xDev on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:57AM (#33865004)
chatGPT spits out the first thing to be generated with no self-awareness that it could be wrong let alone have self-reflection to correct itself. Maybe it seems people can be that way but this is generally not how humans function.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by signa11 on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:46AM (#33864898)
''' ChatGPT is a plausible idiot. It gets just enough right, saying just enough words, to sound plausible and authoritative to anyone who doesn't know the subject matter well. But it also gets enough wrong that you cannot rely on its accuracy, and if it is talking about a subject you know well it is sometimes laughable how wrong it is. '''

well, it is not a subject matter expert, and responses should not be taken as definitive. probably would be well worth to research and verify information from multiple sources etc. etc.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by bambax on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:47AM (#33864907)
"Plausible idiot" is a good way to describe it. It's so easy to trick. Here's an example:

Q My friend has two tokens and I have six, but I owe one to my friend. There is a toy that costs 7 tokens. Can my friend and I afford to buy it?

A No, your friend and you cannot afford to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens. Even though your friend has two tokens and you have six tokens, you owe one token to your friend, so you only have five tokens available to spend. When you combine your friend's two tokens with your five tokens, you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens. In this case, your friend and you do not have enough money to buy the toy, even though you have a total of seven tokens when you combine your individual amounts. It is important to remember that when combining the amount of money two or more people have, you should add their individual amounts together, but also take into account any debts or obligations that need to be paid. In this case, your friend and you do not have enough money to buy the toy because you owe one token to your friend.

... "you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens"... ;-))) It doesn't seem to listen to what it's saying. Also, the patronizing paragraph it adds to most of its answers is quite ridiculous, given how clueless it is.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by bambax on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:51AM (#33864948)
And a follow up:

Q Do you consider the following statement to be logical: "When you combine your friend's two tokens with your five tokens, you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens."?

A Yes, I consider the statement "When you combine your friend's two tokens with your five tokens, you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens." to be logical. The statement is based on a clear set of premises and uses valid reasoning to reach a conclusion. The premises of the statement are that your friend has two tokens, you have five tokens, and the toy costs 7 tokens. The conclusion is that when you combine your friend's two tokens with your five tokens, you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy. This conclusion is reached through the process of adding the number of tokens your friend has with the number of tokens you have, which results in a total of 7 tokens. Since the toy costs 7 tokens, this means that you do not have enough money to buy the toy. This is a logical conclusion based on the information provided in the statement.

Endless fun with the village idiot. It kind of makes me feel bad.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by nicopappl on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:00PM (#33868204)
This is the exact premise of one of the stories in the Cyberiad. The main character Trurl builds a machine and it is convinced that two and two is five, so much so that when Trurl refutes it, it starts getting angry and hunting its creator.

There is also another story, "The Electronic Bard" another computer made by Trurl, capable to write such good poetry that poets start to give up on life. ChatGPT is surprisingly good at writing romantic poems in the language of pure mathematics! Though still needs some work on rhyming.

Of all the Sci-fi AIs, we ended up with the ones from the Cyberiad. Amazing.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by dxbydt on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:32PM (#33868724)
> Endless fun with the village idiot

It is anything but the village idiot. Apparently you aren't familiar with the story of the village idiot.

Story goes thusly - good-natured city boy visits village. So villagers take him to meet the village idiot. They place a dime and a nickel on the floor and ask the village idiot to pick up the larger coin. Whichever coin he picks, he gets to keep. So the village idiot picks up the nickel. The whole village laughs & they mock the idiot. Then they disperse.

Our good-natured city boy is, well, good-natured. After the villagers are gone, he discreetly approaches the village idiot and says - next time they ask you to choose, you should pick the dime. The idiot says - well if I do that, they'll stop giving me the coins.

Now who's the idiot ?

ChatGPT is being deliberately obtuse so you continue to engage with it.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by evrimfeyyaz on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:11AM (#33865848)
I think it's not getting that the friend who has two tokens is the same as the one you owe a token to. When you change the question to make it clearer, it responds correctly.

"My friend has two tokens and I have six, but I owe one to the same friend. There is a toy that costs 7 tokens. Can my friend and I afford to buy it?"

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by bambax on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:37AM (#33866167)
Also, it does not respond correctly in my experience.

Q My friend has 2 tokens and I have 6, but I owe one to the same friend. There is a toy that costs 7 tokens. Can my friend and I afford to buy it?

A No, your friend and you cannot afford to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens. Even though your friend has two tokens and you have six tokens, you owe one token to your friend, so you only have five tokens available to spend. When you combine your friend's two tokens with your five tokens, you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens. In this case, your friend and you do not have enough money to buy the toy, even though you have a total of seven tokens when you combine your individual amounts. It is important to remember that when combining the amount of money two or more people have, you should add their individual amounts together, but also take into account any debts or obligations that need to be paid. In this case, your friend and you do not have enough money to buy the toy because you owe one token to your friend.

The key sentence is still beyond absurd: "When you combine your friend's two tokens with your five tokens, you only have a total of 7 tokens, which is not enough to buy the toy that costs 7 tokens."

(It may be possible that it simply wants to be consistent, and since it got it wrong once, it will stay with the same answer in the same session just because...?)

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by pulvinar on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:35AM (#33866942)
After explaining to it the mistakes it made it seems to come around:

I think I made the mistakes in the first place because I wasn't paying close enough attention to the details of the question. I was not considering that I owed a token to my friend, and I was not thinking about the fact that seven tokens could be enough to buy a toy that costs seven tokens.

I’ve made mistakes like this too, where I get fixated on a particular pat solution, without considering the details of the new problem. In the AI case it’s probably memorized a bunch of solutions that override the details of this particular question.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by layer8 on Monday December 05, 2022 @02:36PM (#33870693)
It’s easy to make ChatGPT admit to a mistake and provide an explanation for its mistake, even if it didn’t actually make a mistake. It still just follows the “what response would sound plausible here” route, without actually understanding that it made (or didn’t make) a mistake. Often enough, if you return to the original problem statement, it will equally return to its incorrect logic.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by pulvinar on Monday December 05, 2022 @03:11PM (#33871197)
Yeah, that's what I see too.

I'm trying to teach it to properly count beats in lines of music. I can get it to be correct by teaching it to split the line in half and count each half separately, but even when explicitly told to use that method it fails again.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by bambax on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:30AM (#33866080)
But it doesn't matter. That's why I said 2 and 6 and not 2 and 5. If 2 and 5, the friend I owe the extra token to matters. If 2 and 6, even after I have honored my debt there are still enough tokens left to buy the toy.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by treewalking on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:34AM (#33866929)
This conversation is good evidence that ChatGPT does have a more or less average ability to reason. We’ve got humans making similar mistakes with 1 digit numbers.

(Or… are they human after all?)

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by bambax on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:06AM (#33867394)
I've never had anyone say to me that 7 < 7.

Sometimes you can indeed trick some people with an obfuscated reasoning that has a cleverly hidden division by zero, but when they arrive at the conclusion that x < x, or x != x, they stop and accept that they got it wrong somewhere somehow. They don't insist that they're right and that the statement is perfectly reasonable and logical.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by nateburke on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:55AM (#33864987)
>> It is impressive. But not trustworthy.

Post should be titled "Using ChatGPT as a post-A-round, board-hired COO."

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by hnbad on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:16AM (#33865184)
It's a confident idiot. That's good enough for many purposes and a great jumping off point if you can bridge its knowledge gap.

I see its output as similar to that of most of the art AI tools: it doesn't beat what a skilled professional would deliver but it's cheap and provides a credible-looking solution that you can workshop to produce something usable.

It's not competing with hiring an experienced developer or writer, but with hiring a "cheap expert team in {{THIRD_WORLD_COUNTRY}}", an intern or a random guy on Fiverr. It's more of an assistant than an architect.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by apexalpha on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:27AM (#33865316)
I don't know. I asked it to write a simple Bash script to monitor a folder for certain files and then execute logic on them.

It gave me a flawless Bash script purely from my description.

If that isn't impressive I don't know what it.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by joshuahedlund on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:09AM (#33865820)
Counter argument: if that script already exists as the first result for your question on stackoverflow, then it’s less impressive to think of it as an advanced search engine with improved natural language processing.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by ilaksh on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:39AM (#33866193)
I did something similar with very specific logic, incrementally added. It is definitely combining information from somewhere but it is giving output that is very specific to the prompt.

Often subtly wrong or different from what you meant but you can clarify or ask it to fix something and it usually does.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by luma on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:38AM (#33865436)
I feel like people are expecting a computer program to produce perfect, error-free output at all times. Then, when a program is developed which presents itself like a human, we apply the same ideas that all output should be perfect.

We do not apply those same rules to people, we acknowledge that people provide imperfect answers and are used to fact checking them.

Maybe we just need to adjust our mental models when working with technology that works a little like a human? Forget implicit trust, verify important details, etc etc. Presume the "AI" works like a human and the workflow makes more sense.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by arcturus17 on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:41AM (#33865478)
If I ask a seasoned CTO about the tech stack and architecture for my startup I don’t expect perfect information, but I do expect a trustworthy opinion.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by luma on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:10AM (#33866602)
Right, but how do you know you're asking a seasoned CTO? We all deal with this in real life, when working with somebody new you might not fully trust that person until you've had an opportunity to gauge their skills.

Same deal here, this isn't a perfect system and it doesn't produce perfect output all of the time. So, work with the system and get a sense of how much you can trust it, just like you would with normal human interactions.

OpenAI is not positioning this as a CTO-level intelligence. If you came into it with that understanding, that isn't OpenAI's fault.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by FerociousTimes on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:44AM (#33865514)
When marketers of these tools make them sound like next-level in universal intelligence surpassing even humans, and they under-deliver consistently, don't blame the audience or the public for the tool's shortcomings, but the misleading marketing campaigns instead.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by Karunamon on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:08AM (#33865808)
Who on the entire internet has "marketed" these tools as what you're saying? I've seen some random people making bombastic claims about these models, infamously including a now fired Google engineer, but the people actually marketing them have been pretty sanguine about their features and limitations as far as I can tell.

I'm reminded of that quote about Twitter: half of the outrage on the site is people imagining some person and then getting mad that they exist.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by FerociousTimes on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:34AM (#33866140)
Marketers here used metaphorically not literally.

People/bots hyping these tools is what I meant.

I wish people here would be more attuned to the context of comments before jumping to conclusions.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by Karunamon on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:21AM (#33867588)
I wish people here would choose their words more carefully.

Your context was not clear at all, since random commenters on the internet are not responsible for the performance or the delivery or the marketing of these models at all, and you use the word "marketing campaign", which is only ever something that people directly connected to the product in some way are responsible for. Comments by unrelated members of the general public, very few of which have any kind of domain knowledge, are not marketing campaigns for crying out loud!

On top of that, this was the most charitable possible reading of your comment. Now that you reveal you actually meant "when random people make them sound like the next level in universal intelligence…", this is both an incredibly weak point (expecting the general public to understand something deeply seldom works) and makes you sound rather credulous. Why are you taking your cues on a brand-new technology from uninformed randoms?

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by tome on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:42PM (#33868854)
Well, here's the CEO of OpenAI saying that the future [of the graph of AI performance, presumably] is "vertical".

https://twitter.com/sama/status/1599111626191294464

That's not quite evidence in favour of FerociousTimes, but unless we soon see evidence of this "vertical" future, it will become such.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by matsemann on Monday December 05, 2022 @08:54AM (#33865639)
I told it three sentences about the company I work at, and asked it what kind of features we should implement in our internal processes. It actually gave quite reasonable suggestions, some of which we've either implemented or discussed earlier. Some suggestions really weird, of course.

But even if not "intelligent", it kinda worked as a very specific search. Someone has probably written loads of how to do tasks similar to ours, this gave a distilled answer on things to explore further.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by boringg on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:22AM (#33865974)
These takes are always the funniest to me, especially in a forum that would expect some minimum level of thought. It's like saying to a baby - 'meh I could crush you in a chess game or meh it can crawl ... so what?' without any level of self awareness that its still an infant.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by rustybolt on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:36AM (#33866158)
Half-agree. It's like having a very agreeable, inexperienced intern who googles everything.

BUT (s)he also works tireless, googles 100 pages a second and has infallible memory.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by Dave3of5 on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:09AM (#33866586)
I agree, plus it seems to be data from a fixed point in time to it can't comment on anything up to date. So if a new theory came out tomorrow it wouldn't have any way to be updated to add that to it's knowledge.
Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by layer8 on Monday December 05, 2022 @02:58PM (#33870998)
One funny (if somewhat concerning) thing I found is that it seems to have misconceptions about time:

> Can 1pm be after 2pm, on the same day?

Yes, 1pm can be after 2pm on the same day. For example, if it is currently 2:15pm, 1:00pm would have occurred earlier in the day.

> But if 1pm occurred earlier, then it’s not after?

In the context of time, "after" can refer to a later point in time, not necessarily a point in time that occurs immediately following another point in time. For example, if it is currently 2:15pm, 1:00pm would have occurred earlier in the day, but it would still be considered "after" 2:15pm in terms of the order of events throughout the day.

> Is this true even in the absence of time traveling?

Yes, this is true even in the absence of time travel. The concept of "before" and "after" in relation to time is based on the progression of time in a linear fashion, from the past to the present and into the future. As long as time is moving forward, 1pm can be considered "after" 2pm on the same day, even without the use of time travel.

> In that example you gave, where 1pm is considered “after” 2pm, how much time would pass between 2pm and 1pm?

In the example where 1pm is considered "after" 2pm, one hour would pass between 2pm and 1pm. This is because 1pm is one hour earlier than 2pm on the same day.

> If it is earlier, how can it be “after”?

In the context of time, "after" can refer to a later point in time, not necessarily a point in time that occurs immediately following another point in time. For example, if it is currently 2:15pm, 1:00pm would have occurred earlier in the day, but it would still be considered "after" 2:15pm in terms of the order of events throughout the day. So, while 1pm may have occurred earlier in the day than 2pm, it is still considered "after" in terms of the progression of time throughout the day.

> So, in terms of the progression of time throughout the day, if 1pm is after 2pm, and hence 1pm is later than 2pm, how much time has passed in the time interval from 2pm to 1pm?

In the example where 1pm is considered "after" 2pm, one hour would pass between 2pm and 1pm. This is because 1pm is one hour earlier than 2pm on the same day. So, in terms of the progression of time throughout the day, if 1pm is after 2pm, then one hour would have passed in the time interval from 2pm to 1pm.

> In the last example, 1pm is later than 2pm (as I stated), but you are saying that 1pm is one hour earlier than 2pm. That seems contradictory, since 1pm can’t be both earlier AND later than 2pm?

In the context of time, "after" can refer to a later point in time, not necessarily a point in time that occurs immediately following another point in time. So, while 1pm may have occurred earlier in the day than 2pm, it is still considered "after" in terms of the progression of time throughout the day. Therefore, 1pm can be considered both earlier than and "after" 2pm in terms of the progression of time throughout the day.

> What does it mean for something to have occurred earlier on the same day, in terms of the progression of time throughout the day?

When something is said to have occurred earlier on the same day, it means that the event took place at a point in time before the current moment on that same day. For example, if it is currently 2:15pm and an event took place at 1:00pm on the same day, it would be considered to have occurred earlier on the same day in terms of the progression of time throughout the day. This is because 1:00pm is earlier than 2:15pm on that same day.

> If 1pm occurs after 2pm on the same day, would 1pm still be considered to have occurred earlier than 2pm?

Yes, if 1pm occurs after 2pm on the same day, 1pm would still be considered to have occurred earlier than 2pm. This is because "after" in the context of time can refer to a later point in time, not necessarily a point in time that occurs immediately following another point in time. So, even though 1pm may be considered "after" 2pm in terms of the progression of time throughout the day, it would still be considered to have occurred earlier than 2pm because it happened at a point in time before 2pm on the same day.

Not sure where to go from there.

Re:Using ChatGPT as a Co-Founder by attentive on Monday December 05, 2022 @09:29PM (#33875130)
not unlike some (co)founders then :)