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Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by nyarlathotep_ on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @02:45PM (#33629412)
Worked for AWS for just under a year and a half; this mirrors my experience exactly.

Poorly designed, failure-prone, brittle internal tooling was a time and energy sink to the point where even the most trivial deployment change was a nail-biter. Automated tooling and tests that were ostensibly created to make life easier were the number one pain point and constantly failed in obscure ways that required cutting tickets to teams responsible for the automation.

More often than not these tickets would be ignored and issues would persist for weeks beyond what's reasonable.

I'd actually force myself to write even trivial code on weekends to ensure my ability to develop didn't atrophy as a result of lack of use.

That, paired with the awful corporate culture and constant fear of PIP/job loss forced me to finally leave.

Generally a very unpleasant experience all around, sans the compensation and name on the resume.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by dimmke on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:00PM (#33629638)
>I'd actually force myself to write even trivial code on weekends to ensure my ability to develop didn't atrophy as a result of lack of use.

I did not mention this in my blog post, but I have actually done similar. That's incredible. Thanks for sharing this comment. Our tenures were almost the exact same length too.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by scruple on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:20PM (#33630799)
When I worked for a BigTechCo, I was doing exercism every single morning for ~30 minutes for the same reason. It really is incredible. I know a few of my former colleagues were doing the same. Today I'm on a team with 4 other engineers, so I keeping busy coding.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by arcturus17 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:51PM (#33631264)
I cannot code in prod anymore and have definitely been looking to develop a habit like this. Any tips from you and others on:

a) How to make it stick

b) How to maximize its efficacy/efficiency

Would be awesome.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by nso95 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:21AM (#33635290)
There are no tricks, that's just a distraction. Just sit down and do it. Ass in chair gets you there.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by avip on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:10AM (#33636208)
Thanks for this. This is the right answer to 95% of "how do I" questions.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by pbronez on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:40PM (#33631926)
Thanks for the tip - Exercism looks great.

https://exercism.org/

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by silisili on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:28AM (#33635676)
Thanks for the link.

I initially thought it was a misspelling of exorcism, and OP was making a joke.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by menaerus on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:05AM (#33636532)
Me too and I was like wtf ... Made my day
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by rad_gruchalski on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:39PM (#33630196)
> Poorly designed, failure-prone, brittle internal tooling was a time and energy sink to the point where even the most trivial deployment change was a nail-biter.

Considering rather good quality APIs they expose to the external world, this is shocking to read.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by sbarre on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:22PM (#33633120)
Internal tools never get the same attention as public-facing products.

Public facing products have competition. Internal tools have a captive audience that must use them, no matter what.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by krageon on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:41AM (#33636378)
Good is a big word, but they exist and have docs. A lot of the time the docs are even correct, if you can find them.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by rad_gruchalski on Thursday November 17, 2022 @07:20PM (#33647991)
I have most often interacted with their APIs via the golang library. Compared to Azure, the AWS stuff is pretty solid.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by krageon on Friday November 18, 2022 @06:48AM (#33653333)
Everyone says this, but in terms of discoverability of the actual apis I have found the opposite is true. Azure tends to have docs with small mistakes, but they are extremely thorough. With AWS it seems to be a tossup: You can be lucky and have complete and accurate information, or you can be fucked.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by buremba on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:32PM (#33630098)
I thought that the deployment pipelines are part of their core business considering AWS has such products that are meant to be used by customers. I assume that the internal tools are different than what AWS customers use for deployments?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by dimmke on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:51PM (#33630372)
A lot of internal teams don't use the AWS software for various reasons. So like, CodePipeline might be great, but there's an internal analogue (I'm not sure the detail I can go into here) that is awful that a lot of teams use. There's been an internal movement to try to get all teams onto AWS services, but it's incredibly slow moving and there's no timeline that I know of.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by CharlieDigital on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:01PM (#33631412)
> So like, CodePipeline might be great

The entire CodeBuild suite kind of sucks when you stack it up to options available on the market including GitHub Actions, GitLab Runners, Azure DevOps, literally almost anything.

If the internal analogue is worse than the CodeStar suite, then yikes.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by banana-19 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @07:02AM (#33637788)
Codestar is simpler than and has too many feature gaps compared to the internal offerings, which makes building and deploying Amazon scale multi-tier, multi-environment services difficult.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by bb88 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:11PM (#33631548)
Clearly a mistake. They should be dogfooding their offerings. A lot of tooling will probably just be better if they can host it on AWS.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by paulclinger on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @09:00PM (#33633961)
Maybe they are dogfooding their future offerings, hence the experience.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by yazaddaruvala on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:47PM (#33632008)
Oh man, we disagree! I miss Pipelines (the internal version of CodePipeline). Having worked at startups and now at Google, that tool is honestly best in class.

FWIW, I don't miss Quilt, or VersionSets, or Apollo, or Hydra, or TOD, or NAWS Pipelines bridge. But Pipelines itself, brining all of those tools together is amazing!

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by dimmke on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:51PM (#33632053)
I was referring to Apollo specifically, since we're naming things.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by femto113 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:29PM (#33632528)
I was once pitched a startup by some Amazon vets whose elevator pitch was "Apollo for everyone". I literally laughed out loud, which was followed by some very awkward assurances from them that they were not, in fact, trying to be funny.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by fdgsdfogijq on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:00PM (#33630512)
You should have just switched teams. Amazon has amazing teams working on deep technology, they also have huge systems with technical debt and stress. People dont realize how different it can be inside the company.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by mr_tristan on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:15PM (#33630741)
How easy is it to transfer between teams? Some companies make this easy, others make it almost harder to apply internally then externally.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by goostavos on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:56PM (#33631333)
I've been on 4 different teams at Amazon (now migrating to a 5th). It depends entirely on the team and as well as your current level. Some do loops just like with external candidates. Others barely require more than a conversation with someone on the team -- though this one is a huge red flag. Teams looking for warm bodies are seldom good teams.

Most of the time its somewhere in between. You'll speak with the manager, speak with the team, you each review each other's artifacts, and if everyone's happy, you swap over. The balance of power is pretty nice. I've dropped out of the process many, many times after starting talking with management. Or even just learning more about what the team itself does (I couldn't live with myself if I worked on pre-roll ads, for example. So I noped out of that one).

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by bb88 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:13PM (#33631592)
I've seen a lot of red flags in my career where managers put people on PIPs -- when in reality it's not a PIP but a personality conflict.

And from what I understand at Amazon, it's kind of the same thing, but PIPs have been aggressively weaponized.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by OnceUponADevops on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @08:55PM (#33633934)
Christ, I wish PIPs were that easy where I work. Some days it feels like the public sector trying to get rid of employees that coast for months at a time before we can work our way through the process to can them.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Firmwarrior on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:14AM (#33641026)
Pips take months too, they're really not ideal
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Aeolun on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @11:20PM (#33634921)
Isn’t that what a PIP is? A Personality Improvement Plan?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by rightbyte on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:13PM (#33643136)
I seems to be used as an advance notice of termination?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by bb88 on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:01PM (#33661194)
The manager isn't required to improve their personality.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by gruffle on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:01PM (#33631408)
I believe you also need approvals from your current manager(s) to switch teams?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by ldjkfkdsjnv on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:07PM (#33631480)
Nope no approval required
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by gruffle on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:20PM (#33631682)
Interesting, I was told the opposite by my managers...
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by nixgeek on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:53AM (#33636451)
Unless you’re in Focus or Pivot, you’re a free agent. When Amazon is performance managing you in any sense it isn’t up to your existing manager if you can move, it would be an L10 (VP) exception on the receiving side to allow you to move, even if the hiring manager thinks you’re great.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by twelve40 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:55PM (#33632118)
that can't be right (but i have no idea). In the new group, nobody has any desire to at least do a reference check with the previous group? That would be the first thing as a hiring manager i would try to check for, say "this person is a d-bag that the entire group hated, and we were about to pip him/her anyway"? That would be kind of an equivalent of an approval, even if there is no formal approval.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by bigfoot675 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:21PM (#33634531)
Yes they do this. I don't know if the other guy just hasn't seen it himself or what
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by therealcamino on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:27PM (#33634572)
I mean, yes, having your manager say "I will destroy your career if you think about leaving" would be a kind of approval needed, but short of that level of viciousness it sounds like no?

Not familiar with Amazon culture so I don't know if that'd be considered acceptable behavior. I hope not!

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by twelve40 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:51PM (#33634724)
have you considered that the manager may rightly have bad things to say? or that is just never warranted.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by caskstrength on Thursday November 17, 2022 @08:13AM (#33638385)
> have you considered that the manager may rightly have bad things to say? or that is just never warranted.

The manager should put those bad things _in writing_ during performance reviews instead of trying to prevent their employees from leaving by dunking on them after they are informed about the fact.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by lozenge on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:00PM (#33631390)
How can you tell ahead of time if the team you're switching to has it any better?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Syonyk on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:52PM (#33632070)
Find out what they drink for "Team alcohol evenings."

Whiskey team? Ok, probably somewhat stressful but doable. Wine team? Plush and cushy, with a line of people who want to be on that team out the door. Vodka team? Oh hell no. Etc.

... I'm kidding. Sort of. But not entirely.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by blippitybleep on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:49PM (#33632754)
You better watch out for the team who all drink Tennent’s Super Lager.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by peteradio on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:04PM (#33634429)
More like team alcohol mornings amirite
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by blippitybleep on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:49AM (#33652033)
The team who all have their standup down the canal with a half bottle.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by jjgreen on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:52PM (#33632787)
RedBull & Ketamine?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by akiselev on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @11:16PM (#33634896)
You’re probably thinking of a crypto exchange as the money exits the “backdoor”.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by hinkley on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @08:05PM (#33633542)
Not at Amazon, but offering a data point for Team Patron not being a good time.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Chamix on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:36PM (#33633273)
Tech survey results, ops load via CTI tickets, CR/LOC stats, accolades, COEs, promotion rate, turnover/attrition....

There are so many data sources that are all queryable via API. There are a couple basic greasemonkey scripts already floating around but as an SDE it really isn't that hard to write something yourself... It does take a bit of experience to get a good heuristic on weighting the different data points but you can do way better than blindly guessing.

I will say as someone who HAS intelligently looked through this data for most teams at Amazon, there is an absolutely MASSIVE difference between the top 10% of teams and the median, and an even larger difference between than and the bottom 10%, which by all metrics appear to truly be hell on earth.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by oblio on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:33AM (#33635999)
> Tech survey results, ops load via CTI tickets, CR/LOC stats, accolades, COEs, promotion rate, turnover/attrition...

Tech survey results??

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by nixgeek on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:50AM (#33636432)
Amazon runs an annual survey with typically quite high participation rates, it is very detailed, and the results are often illuminating (and like many things at Amazon, widely accessible to all people).
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by oblio on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:27AM (#33636672)
Yeah, but you can't see stuff outside your group, I imagine? I mean, dis-aggregated, to drill down to team level.

OP was making it sound like you could get the results for a specific team you'd want to transfer to.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by yathaid on Thursday November 17, 2022 @09:10AM (#33639079)
What OP was suggesting is exactly what you get. You can see results at the level of any manager and zoom out recursively.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by firstSpeaker on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:43AM (#33636062)
Is there any way to get in touch with you and ask a few questions?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by ugh123 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:11AM (#33635224)
talk to people who work on those teams?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Patrol8394 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:13PM (#33631597)
They all look shining from the outside, problems start when you join the new team and realize the pile of st you will be dealing with.

Btw this happens in most companies, tons of tech debt. And those who created that st are off onto new projects recreating the exact same mess all over again.

It is a cycle that never ends.

Only chance is to join early and be in for the long run.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by dtgriscom on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:44PM (#33633346)
... your censorial asterisks italicized part of your post ...
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by BurningFrog on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @11:47PM (#33635090)
If you're good at cleaning up "pile of shit" code, you will always have work!

It's s lot of fun with the right attitude.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by beebmam on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:17AM (#33635624)
I've made a great career of being a code janitor and doing what others don't want, while having a good attitude. In the last few years, I just rewrite everything I possibly can in Rust and I've yet to regret it.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by norir on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:10AM (#33635898)
> I just rewrite everything I possibly can in Rust and I've yet to regret it.

And hopefully no one else regrets it...

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by _djo_ on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:10AM (#33636207)
By then you're onto the next thing and it's their problem, right?

Thus is the circle of (engineering) life.

Just kidding. Please write maintainable code.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by datavirtue on Thursday November 17, 2022 @08:05AM (#33638318)
"Please write maintainable code"

Not in the requirements, sorry.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Firmwarrior on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:11AM (#33640968)
He's using RUST. Haven't you seen all the blogicles that explain how it's impossible to write bad code in rust??
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by BurningFrog on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:20PM (#33645890)
> Please write maintainable code

Most people don't know how to do this, because it's actually hard, and I don't think it's being taught much in programmer education.

I certainly had to learn "on the job", and probably spent 10 years before I got good at it.

I learned the most by fixing bugs. After a while, I started seeing the patterns of why this bug had occurred, and started writing code do avoid the traps.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by xnorswap on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:24AM (#33637028)
> a code janitor

I prefer the term troubleshooter specialising in legacy code, but "code janitor" definitely has felt more appropriate at times.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by datavirtue on Thursday November 17, 2022 @08:05AM (#33638320)
Legacy rescue
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by HelloNurse on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:11AM (#33637357)
Work? Almost certainly. Career? Not very likely.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by jdeaton on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:46AM (#33641577)
The problem is sometimes your organization does not reward these efforts at all.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by spike021 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:13PM (#33633021)
Before I left Amazon I tried transferring to multiple teams after speaking with hiring managers. They all (IIRC 4 separate ones) wanted either a full on-site loop or at minimum two coding interviews).

I was an L5 with about 5-6 years of experience, 1.5 at that point at Amazon.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by shitlord on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:29PM (#33633203)
Hiring managers have a lot of latitude at Amazon, so there isn't a consistent standard. I don't want to share too much PII but I was in a similar situation. I was able to transfer teams after an informal chat with a few engineers on the team (discussing past projects, the new team's product vision, etc.). There was no whiteboarding involved.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by bboygravity on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:37AM (#33636031)
So the internal hiring managers are there for no reason at all?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by SkyArrow on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:40AM (#33636372)
The hiring managers are themselves managers of the team e.g. for a team of devs, a software development manager. In parent comment's case, the manager likely asked for opinions from the team after the chats before giving the final approval.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by shitlord on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:00AM (#33640803)
Yup, that's exactly what happened.

IME, the best managers are the ones who trust and enable their teams to make the right decisions. It would be a red flag if the manager was just giving out offers without allowing the team to provide their input.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by dfxm12 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:23PM (#33630846)
Poorly designed, failure-prone, brittle internal tooling was a time and energy sink

Sometimes I get frustrated at my own job for some reason or another, but I appreciate learning that the grass isn't really greener anywhere else & even places where tech is the core business are having a lot of the same problems.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by nso95 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:26AM (#33635318)
Well, it's definitely not greener at Amazon
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Firmwarrior on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:10AM (#33640955)
It's green from all the cash lying around, but it is a blasted hellscape
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by chrsw on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:05PM (#33631460)
>I'd actually force myself to write even trivial code on weekends to ensure my ability to develop didn't atrophy as a result of lack of use.

I figured this was pretty common. I've only had one job where I didn't feel the need to do this.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by gruffle on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:06PM (#33631465)
Completely agree. Interesting how the internal dev satisfaction polling always shows that the vast majority of devs just absolutely love the internal tooling and processes. Might have something to do with the polls not actually being anonymous. When hr/polling teams are asked about anonymity they generally skirt or ignore the question, but I've learned that enough metadata is collected to identify any responder in pretty much any internal poll.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by dimmke on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:27PM (#33631768)
Hiring freeze applies to internal transfers too
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Aeolun on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:17AM (#33635265)
Why would you respond positively even on non-anonymous polls? The goal is to determine the state of the internal tools, not to purge any dissenters…
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by glogla on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:01AM (#33636517)
> The goal is to determine the state of the internal tools, not to purge any dissenters…

Well ... maybe?

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Aeolun on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:02AM (#33637312)
I suppose? I’ve always answered honestly and never been purged so far.

N1 doesn’t really help, but it’s a start.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by therealdrag0 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:08PM (#33649512)
Same. Seems really nonsensical to purge someone from a tool satisfaction poll/survey.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by lloydatkinson on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:18AM (#33637403)
I’ve never seen non-anonymous polls not used to weaponise, single out, and then fire someone.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by gw98 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:06PM (#33631471)
This is the general feeling of what I see from AWS support as well as a consumer of the platform.

I'm battling something for weeks now which is a completely broken ass piece of shit inside AWS. I spent the first 3 weeks trying to get attention for this via support tickets and someone to take it seriously, resulting in escalating to account management. I've been on calls with the programme managers, been apologised to constantly and absolutely nothing has been done that is productive. Not only that they sheepishly suggested other customers were in the same shit.

My conclusion at the end is that critical bits of AWS are held together with only a couple of people who actually know how it works and they don't even have the ability to do fix anything...

Not that the consuming company I work for isn't a complete mess either but I expected better from AWS.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by horns4lyfe on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:57PM (#33634764)
I know the types of companies that are Microsoft shops come with their own problems, but my quality of life via tooling at two Microsoft shops has been great.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by throwaway2037 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:15AM (#33636233)
Do you mean Azure? I don't quite follow your comment.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by wikfwikf on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:49AM (#33636797)
I think they mean places which use Visual Studio, (usually) C#, Windows Server, Azure, etc. Lots of components of this stack tend to work a bit better if you use all the others. Common in finance, because of Excel.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by lloydatkinson on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:14AM (#33637373)
This is my experience of using AWS too at work. It’s why I strongly prefer Azure. You can tell AWS is totally drowning in poor management.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by giantg2 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:44PM (#33631981)
"Generally a very unpleasant experience all around, sans the compensation and name on the resume."

At least you have that.

My skills have atrophied and my pay is meh.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by bitL on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:00PM (#33632168)
You are pretty much validating that Amazon is a 2-year company, as reflected in their vesting schedule.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by randomopining on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:00PM (#33632876)
So basically you get most of your comp at 2 years? So crank hard for 2 years and then bounce?
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by spike021 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:14PM (#33633032)
You get a bunch of cash up front; majority of RSU's come from your 3rd year vest date on.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by marssaxman on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @09:40PM (#33634255)
You get most of your comp after two years; vesting is back-loaded. Many (most?) people wash out before they get a chance to collect, which obviously works out well for Amazon.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by grangerg on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:51AM (#33635458)
Someone on another Amazon related thread mentioned that 50% leave after 2 years and 80% leave after 4.

If you do the math on their TC to see how it actually works out from month to month, it makes sense. Unless you get more RSU's, you take a huge hit in pay, unless you weren't cashing in on them to make ends meet.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by oblio on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:36AM (#33636017)
That's accounting for stock growth.

With the flat share price, there's no 4 year cliff anymore...

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by hinkley on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:27PM (#33633174)
I worked a contract there and the team barely understood how some of those configuration panes functioned. It was always a case of staring at someone else's config and then at yours until you found enlightenment. And the target kept changing, so there was a very bad week where my computer worked for 80 minutes total. I coded like hell during that time, pair programmed with the other contractors or did math on a whiteboard for the rest.

Another guy on the team intimated once in a while that he didn't like the team dynamics, but he played his cards pretty close to the chest. After he gave notice, on what we all thought was supposed to be his last day, we showed up in the morning just to find his computer and all of his equipment in a pile on a desk. We never did figure out if we or he were off by one or it was his middle finger to the team.

All the more mysterious because later that day we did discover his middle finger: The lead dev, who seemed to be one of the more reasonable people on the team, and the resident know-it-all both discovered that someone had fiddled with their configurations in ways that broke the system but produced obscure errors and hard to notice differences (like punctuation).

I took a couple lessons away from that project, and reinforced some that I'd already had. Perhaps the most important of which is: Bragging rights for being first mover are very, very short-lived. Once everyone else has copied it, the most accurate adjective for your version is 'old', or 'primitive', not 'first', and absolutely under no circumstances 'best'. Developers don't like bullshit. Don't pretend like your liabilities are assets.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by Firmwarrior on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:19AM (#33641104)
Man, that's crazy. You can go to big boy jail for that, haha.

When I quit Amazon, they ran to my desk and unplugged my dev machine, since they thought I was going to leave a software "time bomb". I thought that was the stupidest concern in the world, but maybe it does actually happen.

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by hinkley on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:35PM (#33642489)
It was maybe his second gig. A lot of us are still little monsters at that point. Not to say that’s okay, but just to say I wasn’t that surprised. What I was surprised by was that I didn’t think he had that kind of animosity. Pretty good at hiding his feelings.

I never understood that “shut them out” reaction for people giving notice. Getting laid off, maybe. But I pick the time and place where I hand over my 2 weeks. I have all day or even a few days to do it, but I have known for a month or three that this was coming, I’ve known for days when it was likely to come, and I’ve known for hours or even days that it was happening today.

You don’t think if I was going to do something shitty that I would have done it first? You guys are really underestimating my intelligence, or at least my ability to plan. But then that’s probably part of why I’m leaving.

Also they say that liars think everyone else is lying, thieves think everyone else is stealing. So I wonder what this says about the paranoid person? Are they a danger to the company?

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by sumanthvepa on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:55AM (#33635816)
I worked at Amazon from 1998 to 2003. Those were exactly my experiences. Clearly they don't care about the internal development experience and probably never will.
Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by PartiallyTyped on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:56AM (#33636483)
> I'd actually force myself to write even trivial code on weekends to ensure my ability to develop didn't atrophy as a result of lack of use.

I am glad I am doing a master's in parallel because outside that I haven't written code in a while ...

Re:Laying myself off from Amazon by chocolatemario on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:38AM (#33636733)
My Amazon experience was similar. Especially the lack of coding due to the emphasis on devops/meeting culture. I have since felt that once a product reaches maturity, additional headcount (butts in seats) are operators first and secondly a swarm for something like a broadly scoped breaking change, runtime upgrade or platform migration. There is plenty of fat to trim even in aws despite it being among the more secure jobs to have at the company.

I’ve seen work slow down across a few teams and it just leaves me in a place of boredom and complacency with a major technical itch. Despite this itch looking to be scratched, I cannot seem to find the time/energy to pursue coding regularly outside of work in the limited free time I have. Maybe if I were single, no kids, dogs…