News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by crypt1d on Saturday November 12, 2022 @05:11AM (#33571762)
This last week has been a rollercoaster. I've been in crypto since a long time ago and have seen quite a bit, but this FTX implosion takes the crown. And to be honest, I don't think its over.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by rvba on Saturday November 12, 2022 @05:30AM (#33571832)
What is the difference between this, terraluna earlier this year or MTGox?
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by crypt1d on Saturday November 12, 2022 @05:59AM (#33571971)
Luna was quite bad, but it was pretty straight-forward path to death that everyone saw from a mile away. Not many people predicted that FTX and SBF will fall from grace within a timespan of 48hrs. The whole thing is also so full of scandals, theft and corruption we will be reading about this in the news for weeks to come.

mtGox was so early in crypto, there wasn't any institutional capital or major players, mostly retail/regular folks experimenting with shiny new tech. FTX is an intermingled web of retail, institutions and big name investors as well as having their own investments, huge donations to politicians, lobbying arm, etc. The fallout from this will set us back for years.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by unboxingelf on Saturday November 12, 2022 @09:52AM (#33573594)
I suspect this will be the catalyst for “regulation clarity”.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by willmadden on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:36PM (#33575696)
It sure is interesting how they extended their tentacles into as many other companies and projects as possible (SBF even approached Elon about financing the Twitter acquisition) while knowing they were financing these deals with customer deposits, before blowing it up in the most spectacular way possible…

I can’t imagine a series of actions that would be more destructive to the industry. The actions don’t make sense unless they were taken to maximize the potential fallout.

The deep regulatory and political connections are also interesting…

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by AlexandrB on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:48PM (#33579823)
The idea that this is some kind of "op" is undermined by the fact that SBF was broadcasting his own lack of trustworthiness for a long time. Remember that exchange with Matt Levine where SBF all but admits to running a Ponzi scheme[1]? That was half a year ago.

I think the idea that this is some kind of 4D chess move by regulators is a convenient way for the gullible idiots who believed in this stuff to put the blame on something other than their own credulousness. The guy basically admitted to running a Ponzi scheme. Why did you continue to trust him???

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-25/sam-bankm...

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by willmadden on Sunday November 13, 2022 @01:01PM (#33585537)
At no point did he admit to investing customer deposits in defi or similar schemes without their consent in that interview. FTX’s terms even state that they would never do that.

His actions since Alameda blew up were not rational, even if we assume that he was operating a Ponzi scheme the entire time.

He bailed out as many failed projects as he could and attempted to make investments with funds he did not have after the collapse of his ponzi started.

A ponzi operator who sees their house of cards collapsing is going to look for ways to get more money into the ponzi unencumbered with the hope that they can make back the losses before anyone notices.

They are not going to allocate what precious little capital they still have to investments that do not contribute more capital to the ponzi.

Yet this is exactly what SBF did.

It doesn’t make any sense.

Yet the regulation authorities are considering (that SBF literally authored) does very little to address the root causes of centralized exchange collapse, and is more or less designed to give power to regulators first and protect investors as a distant second.

What is needed are proof of reserves that include both assets and liabilities for centralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges shouldn’t be able to lock up 100mm USD worth in customer Ethereum deposits for staking, when their exchange allows someone to buy that 100mm USD in ETH and withdraw it from the exchange before they can unlock the ETH and use it to fund the withdrawal without delay. If the exchange is going to allow customers to stake ETH on their exchange, the actual customers' ETH must be staked, and shouldn't be accounted for separately than the staked ETH deposit.

That is the core of the issue with centralized exchanges that play shell games with customer funds. They create financial risk if customer deposits are not backed 1:1 and mirroring the financial decisions of the depositor. Anything less is a ponzi, no matter how much window dressing is applied.

It's worth noting that banks are ponzi schemes, but they can borrow funds at the discount rate at will, and must meet capital requirements, so the damage their ponzi schemes can cause is limited. There is no lender of last resort in crypto. Centralized exchanges cannot behave like banks!

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by lvl102 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:25AM (#33572101)
SBF was hailed as a crypto savior just a few weeks ago after the Luna fallout. He was viewed as Warren Buffett during the financial crisis. Perhaps Coinbase will be the ultimate winner here if crypto somehow survives. I imagine more than 75-80% of the assets tied to crypto will liquidate in coming weeks. I don’t think this will be “just another” crypto blow up. It’s end game time.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by swalsh on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:46AM (#33574124)
I trust Coinbase as a public company, but not more than I'd be willing to lose on a trip to Vegas.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by xeromal on Saturday November 12, 2022 @09:28AM (#33573341)
I think MTGox was actually worse just due to the small size of the market then and how much of a joke their security was. FTX just seems like a fleecing job that tons of crypto exchanges and businesses have pulled off. MTGox was sheer incompetence.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by zeven7 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @11:58AM (#33574840)
I would consider the moral failure of SBF to be worse than the incompetence of Karpeles.

Also, SBF was a billionaire hobnobbing with politicians and celebrated by Forbes. Karpeles was some confused dev on his computer who loved his cat and wanted to build a coffee shop.

SBF's failure is going to have larger consequences outside the crypto sphere.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by mi_lk on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:17PM (#33575525)
Is there anything happen to Karpeles in the end for what he did with mtgox?
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by richardknop on Saturday November 12, 2022 @02:08PM (#33576022)
He was in a custody for about a year, he was later sentenced to a suspended year in prison. He still lives in Tokyo, no idea what he does for work now though.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by lupire on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:38PM (#33575722)
Jeffrey Epstein funneled hundreds of million of dollars (and 16-yr-old girls) through politicians and business celebrities, and there were trivial consequences outside his family.

SBF just stumbled into money and spread it around, like the Oculus guy.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by cycrutchfield on Saturday November 12, 2022 @08:35AM (#33572902)
If you believe there is more to come and this isn’t over, are you still holding crypto?
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by xtracto on Saturday November 12, 2022 @09:08AM (#33573159)
I've been in cryptocurrencies/blockchain since 2012. I "missed" the BTC boat and got into ETH early. I'm of the thought that CeFi services like Ftx, Nexo, Coinbase and similar are stupid. The only thing that should exist is simple Exchanges between Fiat and cryptocurrency. But everything else is just a scam IMHO. Why would you do a CeFi in crypto , when theres more TAM in doing it normal FIAT? Because you want to Avoid regulation and scrutiny.

Anyways, through all this saga, I see ETH is still at $1200, which has held pretty well. I think the right price is around $600, how it was on Nov 2020, before all speculation. The rest of the price is just people playing around. But that's not what ETH is for, and these high prices are hurting it's real goal.

I'm definitely still holding crypto. Mostly ETH, because I believe in the core technology. I've done some smart contracts and have a couple ideas for the future.

But man, I surely hope all cryptos crash and burn this time, so that speculators stop polluting the technology.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by unboxingelf on Saturday November 12, 2022 @09:49AM (#33573563)
I can see a future where payments happens over lightning, BTC is savings, and apps/games/entertainment are built on ETH.

However I’ve grown less confident in ETHs longevity following the move to PoS. I’m concerned about the centralization of control and influence (eg transactions being dropped, tornado cash), lack of ability to withdrawal staked ETH, and general lack of trust created by the extreme number of scams. How do you view ETH long term, particularly wrt the proximity it has to these seemingly endless scams?

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by oldgradstudent on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:46AM (#33574116)
> I think the right price is around $600,

Why $600 and not $351, $17, or $15,000?

What fundamental reason is there for any specific price?

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by lupire on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:41PM (#33575751)
Because it's not too high, and not too low.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by hn_throwaway_99 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @11:22AM (#33574478)
But again, despite lots of people "believing in the core technology", nearly everyone who holds crypto is doing so for speculation - they want to get rich by greater fool theory.

Even people/groups using it for putatively useful purposes, those purposes often tend to be 10x more complicated or risky than standard financial mechanisms (or, they are using crypto specifically for various forms of money laundering).

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by cmeacham98 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @12:38PM (#33575219)
I think this is my biggest problem with cryptocurrency. I thought it was cool technology with potential usecases back when I heard about it in 2013 or so; but it's become clear 99.99% of people involved with crypto only see it as a speculative asset.

Almost nobody cares about optimizing for real world use, just optimizing for "price goes up".

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by wmf on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:03PM (#33575411)
We now have a litmus test for this: If you are truly in it for the technology and not to get rich then obviously you would only use/develop stablecoins because they have the benefits of crypto without that pesky volatility. Virtually no one fits this description.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by boppo1 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @11:54AM (#33574790)
Can you point me in the direction of how to reliably setup a cold wallet for ETH? Apparently much harder to find a guide for than BTC. A wallet generator I can run on a tails USB would be ideal.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by xtracto on Saturday November 12, 2022 @12:13PM (#33574965)
An ETH wallet is just a private/publik keypair. You only have to generate a compatible pair [1] and write it in a piexe if paper. What makes it "cold" is that you dont place your keys sonwhere online (myetherwallet, exodus,etc) so it cant be hacked.

[1] https://www.arthurkoziel.com/generating-ethereum-addresses-i...

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by xwdv on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:22AM (#33573886)
Personally I liquidated all remaining crypto. I think these are the end of days for crypto and before the end of this year anyone still holding crypto assets will find them significantly less valued. There is no path to increasing value.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by pinkfairy10 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:32AM (#33573989)
Losing faith just because a CEX goes down means you were never interested in it beyond speculation to begin with it.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by xwdv on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:36AM (#33574027)
That is 100% accurate.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by oldgradstudent on Saturday November 12, 2022 @10:47AM (#33574128)
It's not a CEX. It's quite a lot of CEXs, one after the other.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by pdntspa on Saturday November 12, 2022 @11:44AM (#33574706)
Did you just call GP a paper hands?

Because any profitable trader will tell you just how stupid that logic is.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by davewritescode on Saturday November 12, 2022 @11:58AM (#33574834)
All of crypto is speculation. Nobody pays for anything with crypto and most of the time the price movement of Bitcoin seems pretty close to the movement of NASDAQ.

ETH provides value but it’s moved to an unproven model.

The who crypto ecosystem is filled with charlatans and crooks who want to rob you and your only other alternative is to be your own bank and store in a cold wallet. Not something normal people are interested in.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by eddsh1994 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @12:13PM (#33574960)
I’ve routinely bought my morning bacon and avocado sandwich with coffee using various crypto at a local cafe in Oxford, when I lived there.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by HaZeust on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:08PM (#33575451)
Yeah because you're a user on HackerNews.

That process is not at all streamlined for the layperson, and the structure of crypto has only existed to make it harder, and to further divorce from what could otherwise be a straightforward process for 99% of folks.

Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by xwdv on Sunday November 13, 2022 @12:16AM (#33580295)
Some guy bought a Dominos Pizza for 500 bitcoins way back before it was popular.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by MrMan on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:56PM (#33575894)
crypto is famous only because of speculation, speculators drive all the value
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by BeFlatXIII on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:16PM (#33575519)
It's shorting time!
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by crypt1d on Saturday November 12, 2022 @05:52PM (#33577983)
I'm all in fiat right now, and will stay like that until things calm down a bit.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by booleandilemma on Saturday November 12, 2022 @09:41AM (#33573487)
A rollercoaster or a skydive without a parachute?
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by misiti3780 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:19PM (#33575548)
Another interesting thought I keep going back to is .... since crypto is really zero sum, who the hell was on the other side of these horrible trades that has billions now?
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by SkyMarshal on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:36PM (#33575697)
I suppose in this case it's probably a negative sum game. The assets in question are the FTT token that Alameda mined and gave to FTX as collateral, in return for real customer assets from FTX that Alameda used to gamb... er trade with. But FTT then went to zero, tanked the whole market, and the customer assets Alameda holds lost value too. Everybody loses.
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by crypt1d on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:31PM (#33575648)
At this point it wouldn't surprise me if they siphoned off the money by being on the other side of those trades via different entities...
Re:FTX US’s wallets appear to be hacked, $600M leaving the e... by bombcar on Saturday November 12, 2022 @02:37PM (#33576271)
Supposedly from what I'm hearing from /r/buttcoin rumors, Alameda was very bad at trading, so the billions have gone to the people doing the opposite trades from Alameda, which were being funded by FTX to try to gamble back the amounts lost.