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Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by PragmaticPulp on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:05PM (#31729110)
Vet clinics became very popular private equity targets recently.

One of the people I know in PE described their profit margins as being surprisingly high even before PE roll-ups. They said that some PE firms were on a mission to acquire all of the vet firms in metro areas and then drive prices up even further because the demand is so inelastic. There was a secondary rush where people were trying to acquire vet clinics in anticipation of flipping them to PE roll-ups later.

My local vet seems to have gone down this slide. A long time ago it felt like a staff that really just cared about animals and had good prices. On my last visit it felt like I was bombarded with practiced pitches for different products and services at every step of the process. They even added some expensive vitamin product to my bill despite me declining it during the service. They removed it when I caught it on the bill before walking out the door, but only after a last attempt at pitching me on it. I could tell they were heavily incentivized to sell as much as possible. I didn't go back, but at this point I don't know where else to go.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by legitster on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:09PM (#31729167)
I worked with people who did (human) clinic roll ups.

Part of the issue at hand is that doctors and physicians are notoriously bad businesspeople. So once they build up a big enough practice, a lot of them will jump on the chance to sell the side of the business that they hate to a management firm.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by conductr on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:14PM (#31730261)
I’ve hands on done these roll ups in mass (a ton of tiny M&A deals) and I would not characterize the physicians that way at all. They are generally fairly savvy small business owners and they always saw their practice as a retirement/nest egg. They also tend to burn out on all the insane regulations/insurance/employer/etc hoops they have to jump through and as a small business they tend not to have negotiating power or the scale to leverage shared services. These are the primary benefits of the roll up along with jacking up prices as much as possible obviously.

Like many physicians these days, they see benefits of just being a W2 employee. It’s also a demographic wave, there’s a lot of near retirement folks that are winding down and these PE firms are providing liquidity for their practice. For the consumer though, it’s probably not a good thing at all

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by trhway on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:37PM (#31732641)
As result of the acquisition you may notice appearance of a business practice manager - a non-vet guy lurking behind the nurses and doctors at whom they all look trying to understand whether he approves or disapproves each and every action they do/say.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by ShrigmaMale on Monday June 13, 2022 @07:12PM (#31732901)
Similar experience in PE a while back, know a lot of people who still do it, and yeah a lot of small business owners are cashing out right now as boomers retire. Between that and all the dry powder PE has on hand after recent massive raises there will be a lot of buying businesses going on, lots more than even a decade back. Especially now that inflation is stressing retirement savings and costs of everything are rising so fast while people will be looking more to private markets to up returns in bad economic conditions.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by banannaise on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:21PM (#31729325)
The inevitable march of capitalism: experts in every field are gradually relieved of their decision-making power by experts in finance, until finance guys control everything.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by lordnacho on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:26PM (#31729420)
But you can have capitalism without financialization.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Ericson2314 on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:36PM (#31729603)
"financialization" is more a boogieman than a solid concept. More competition (the best interpretation of "de-financialization" I can imagine) is not very solid solution for something like healthcare (or yes pet care) where the demand being inelastic makes "ransoming" easy.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by gwd on Monday June 13, 2022 @04:14PM (#31731166)
> best interpretation of "de-financialization" I can imagine

"Financialization" means the insistence on seeing "business" as a machine which is to be optimized to maximize return on money. It's in contrast to people doing good work for a fair price.

Compare these two veterinary practices.

One has an owner who is a vet, who got into the practice because they love animals. They hire staff who love animals. They charge enough money to live reasonably comfortable lives and pay off their vet school bills. They could charge more but they don't. They don't try to push unnecessary services to raise more money.

The second is owned by private equity, who got into the field because it has inelastic demand. Prices are carefully calibrated to extract the maximum amount of cash possible. They hire staff who focus on getting the most bang for the buck: they focus and push for expensive operations and do them in the shortest amount of time; operations which aren't cost-effective are passed over or simply not done. At every step of the road, "upselling" is a thing, to maximize money taken from pockets.

The first is what I consider the best kind of "business": Doing good fork for a fair price. Those kinds of businesses make the world a better place to live in.

The second is what I would call "financialization", and I consider the worst kind of business: Extracting as much money as possible for the least effort. Those kinds of businesses make the world a terrible place to live in.

The first kind of business is the kind of capitalism I want, not the second.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by hoseja on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @02:42AM (#31735497)
The second business goes on to make so much money it can buy the first, unless the owner is very determined to not be bought (insignificant minority).
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by markovbot on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @10:14AM (#31739831)
and in the case of the insignificant minority, the second one sets up a competing shop directly across the street with artificially low prices and waits for the first one to go out of business.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by danielmarkbruce on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:31PM (#31732597)
It might make sense to split it into "professional services" v "business". Legally it's hard to tell them apart, but people tend to know the difference.

It makes sense for some businesses to actually be an "asset" - eg Coca Cola company. It is a reasonable argument that it doesn't make sense for a vet practice to be an "asset". Nor a law firm.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by HWR_14 on Monday June 13, 2022 @05:58PM (#31732309)
> The first kind of business is the kind of capitalism I want, not the second.

The problem is there's no rule you can apply that distinguished between those two, in a court of law or elsewhere. Unless you just look at if a bigger firm owns the vet office. But that doesn't help with the upselling vet or the large national organization who wants to help animals.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Ericson2314 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @12:58PM (#31742348)
Yup exactly.

And say the owner-Vet who is doing it from a place of love takes a lone and needs to make some interest payments....what then!

Indebtedness and greed are hard to distinguish when black boxes. Always remember that.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shkkmo on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:47PM (#31729824)
Markets can work fine with inelastic demand if there is adequate information, freedom of choice and proper regulations.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by WaxProlix on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:07PM (#31730147)
More like, could than can as far as I can see. Markets kick ass under certain circumstances, but in some areas it's almost impossibly hard to achieve those circumstances.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shkkmo on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:15PM (#31730278)
My point is that I don't think the inelasticity of demand is why the healthcare markets work so poorly.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by adgjlsfhk1 on Monday June 13, 2022 @04:08PM (#31731087)
the problem is that some markets inherently can't have adequate information because the customers by nature of being customers don't have time to shop around.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by ryan93 on Monday June 13, 2022 @07:38PM (#31733076)
Unfortunately government restricted the supply of doctors below population growth.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by beowulfey on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:38PM (#31729642)
Doubtful. The point of capitalism is to optimize for maximum capital production. Ergo, the optimum solution always seems to end up being financialization, since it is so effective at producing capital.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by IG_Semmelweiss on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:38PM (#31729636)
A veterinarian cannot open a practice without doing a bunch of licensing and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in education.

Meanwhile, the PA next to him has what it takes from years of training but she will never open a vet clinic of his/her own.

Thats not capitalism.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shkkmo on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:41PM (#31729704)
The solution to that is reforming the educational and licensing system, not putting finance people in charge.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by mschuster91 on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:43PM (#31729746)
Interestingly enough, a couple of states allow interested people to become lawyers by apprenticeship instead of the university route. Wonder if that would ever be feasible for veterinarians.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by wolverine876 on Monday June 13, 2022 @10:58PM (#31734260)
It's a fantasy of libertarians, etc., but I think it is exceedingly rare for someone to have a serious career as a lawyer without a law degree.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Avicebron on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:42PM (#31729739)
what do you mean? That's exactly capitalism, it favors inequality heavily. The Vet made it to the top of the heap, and is now utilizing the PA as an exploitable workforce.

Tech example, BigCo A gets first mover advantage, equally good BiggishCo B is a bit behind (for whatever reason), BigCo A leverages their position to prevent B from being able to compete long term - usually by acquisition, they work for us now.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pclmulqdq on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:50PM (#31729879)
It's not capitalism because a licensing cartel artificially keeps the supply of vets low by keeping out qualified PAs and nurses who could handle easy cases.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by stefan_ on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:07PM (#31730151)
You have just realized that most actors in capitalism prefer to the rig the game rather than compete.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by guelo on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:07PM (#31730142)
No idea how an increased number of vets would prevent capital from consolidating this industry.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by astrange on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:58PM (#31730951)
You can’t have a monopoly in an industry with no barriers to entry. Cartels aren’t stable because every newcomer has an incentive to defect.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by verve_rat on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:02PM (#31732346)
It costs more than zero dollars to set up a new vet clinic. I'd bet a bunch of the shit they need is really expensive.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pclmulqdq on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:32PM (#31732602)
Capital alone can't maintain a cartel. Investors can partner with doctors to set up a new vet clinic to help break the cartel, and there are significant rewards for both. In turn, the competition lowers prices across the board. Cartels are essentially a prisoner's dilemma without rules (like licensure) enforcing them.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shakes_mcjunkie on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:03PM (#31730087)
Licensing can be used to monopolize markets and consolidate private ownership. Licensing isn't inherently bad but it can be used in a capitalist system to increase profits and drive out competition.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pc86 on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:05PM (#31730114)
Capitalism doesn't become "not capitalism" because practitioners need to be licensed and public safety and/or public opinion demands regulations be put in place.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Natsu on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:18PM (#31730333)
If someone recommends "don't do that" and you do that anyway, you can't reasonably blame their advice for being wrong because things went wrong when you did the thing anyway and then justify it with "well, sometimes people don't listen to your advice, so clearly it's not good enough, we really need to do more of the thing you advised against to fix this."
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pc86 on Monday June 13, 2022 @04:04PM (#31731046)
Are you saying that capitalism means completely open, zero regulation, zero licensure markets? Because it absolutely does not. It means (among other things) a competitive market with minimal information asymmetries between producer and consumer. Regulation can at time help this, e.g. requiring information disclosure, or preventing monopolistic practices.

Just because a lot of regulations are bad (or enforced poorly) and some licenses are onerous does not mean "regulation === bad" or "licensure === bad."

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Natsu on Monday June 13, 2022 @08:10PM (#31733267)
You're arguing against an extreme position I have not advocated for.

But when bad regulations cause bad outcomes, it's pretty weird to focus the blame on the people warning that bad regulations can cause bad outcomes instead of how the regulations are flawed and whether they can be fixed.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by ROTMetro on Monday June 13, 2022 @07:01PM (#31732819)
If your intent is to capture the market so that you can set the price, that is not capitalism. If licenses are limited, then the amount any one business can own should be limited. Having the ability and using it to artificially limit competition is called a cartel and should be illegal in the USA. An artificial limit on the amount of competition allowed <> capitalism.

See taxi medallions. Another example for a long time would have been FAA approval of new aircraft type certificates and the requirements creating a huge barrier for entry to get them that artificially prevented competition.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pclmulqdq on Monday June 13, 2022 @05:14PM (#31731862)
Capitalism kind of does become "not capitalism" when a small cartel of individuals uses these public safety rules to arbitrarily cap the number of professionals who can be certified. At that point, you have something approaching mercantilism. Rules can be good for markets, but in the medical industry in the US they are far past that point.

I haven't checked, but I assume that today there are more rules and regulations on doctors in the US than there were on the entire Soviet economy. Some of those rules are good, but most of them are in place because a hospital system or a medical association lobbied to put them in place so that they could keep barriers to entry high.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by WaxProlix on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:01PM (#31730052)
It's exactly capitalism because concentrations of capital form and end up with a critical mass that controls various aspects of society - in this case licensing. It's also something that's literally happening under capitalism, right now, in very capitalist America.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by danuker on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:07PM (#31730152)
While I give your argument some merit, i.e. nobody should be able to corner a market, in this case a different concentration of capital keeps the supply low: the Big Higher Ed one, as opposed to Big Vet.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by astrange on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:57PM (#31730936)
It’s a modern mixed economy. Full capitalism was the previous stage, when unlicensed doctors traveled around selling people radium cures.

It’s actually very surprising we trust doctors so much (have inelastic demand for them) because for most of history doctors were more likely to kill you than not.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Jarwain on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:04PM (#31730092)
It's not capitalism the same way soviet Russia wasn't communism
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by djmips on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:06PM (#31730133)
People seem to think capitalism == meritocracy.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by BurningFrog on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:38PM (#31729629)
We've had capitalism for 250 years, and are still far from this alleged inevitable end state.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by refurb on Monday June 13, 2022 @08:43PM (#31733491)
If the finance guy is driving down costs and some of that makes it way to me, the consumer, I’m all for it.

We didn’t get dirt cheap electronic because some engineer squeeze costs down and competed on price.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by cyanydeez on Monday June 13, 2022 @08:54PM (#31733560)
It's happening to engineering firms too? The great duopoly America is coming swiftly.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shakes_mcjunkie on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:19PM (#31729304)
> They said that some PE firms were on a mission to acquire all of the vet firms in metro areas and then drive prices up even further because the demand is so inelastic.

I searched recently for a nearby vet in Chicago and probably out of 15, only 1 was not owned by a larger chain or company. Big bummer. It's hard to trust that a vet that's part of a chain isn't going to have perverse incentives when it comes to caring for my pets.

Also, another thing that I imagine is driving up vet prices is the unregulated pet insurance industry.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by dhosek on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:11PM (#31730204)
My brother owns Merrick Animal clinic in Brookfield. The other thing to investigate would be independent vets doing house call practices which, assuming you can find one, would be cheaper than a clinic and much less stressful for the animals (my brother did that before buying Merrick 14 years ago).
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by zippergz on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:31PM (#31732589)
We have used house call vets for many years, and they are wonderful in terms of experience for the animals. However, in my experience they are universally far more expensive than clinics (which we still go to sometimes if it's semi-urgent and our mobile vet is not available).
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shakes_mcjunkie on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:49PM (#31730822)
Oh interesting I'm going to look into a house call vet!
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by mirntyfirty on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:35PM (#31729586)
True although some of the large PE firms do their best to hide the affiliation.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shakes_mcjunkie on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:59PM (#31730029)
Oh yea I'm sure. Many of the chains I'm not sure what type of company they were. But just the fact that vets aren't a small, locally owned businesses concerns me. I'm sure some of the larger chains are either PE firms or owned by PE firms.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by clairity on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:55PM (#31729955)
don't ever go to any ACCESS animal hospitals then. they're prominent in southern california, and probably beyond, and sold out to PE many years ago. they take advantage of pet owners in the most acute veterinary situations to bilk them (or their insurance) out of many thousands of dollars. it's despicable.

i was so furious i nearly punched a vet there who was hard-selling me on very expensive cancer treatments for my (then dying) cat a few years ago when he hadn't even confirmed it was cancer (there was much more to the story, but i'll leave it at that). that was my one and only visit. never again.

i've since found a great vet working at a non-profit rescue organization. she's no-nonsense, genuine, caring, but importantly, unconstrained by financial metrics. when the sibling cat was dying, she recommended palliative care (and generic medicine from a formulary) over low-odds treatment, because the best case was a few more months at the cost of significant agony for my cat.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by reaperducer on Monday June 13, 2022 @05:42PM (#31732151)
i've since found a great vet working at a non-profit rescue organization

Rescue organizations are often the best resource for finding a reputable vet.

One of my neighbors went to a big chain vet clinic to have her cat spayed. They charged her almost $120.

Meanwhile, the city will spay any cat you bring to the pound for free.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by torbTurret on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:54PM (#31729931)
PE are truly the cockroaches of our society.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by guelo on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:10PM (#31730192)
Please show some respect for your overlords.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by idrios on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:56PM (#31729968)
My mom and step-dad have run a small veterinary clinic for the last 20+ years, they recently sold to one of these companies for a lot of money because mom was completely burnt out and wanted to retire. Step dad agreed to continue working for 3 more years though to ensure a smooth transition, mom worked for an additional 6 months and very recently retired.

They both despise the company. Before selling they were not beholden to any boss or investors, and worked hard to do the best for their clients and their pets. Now they're forced to use systems they have no control over. People can schedule appointments online through a system they don't manage, which means they could end up needing to euthanize an animal that they've known for 15 years at 9 in the morning, and then 5 minutes later have to pretend they're completely ok and happy to accommodate a new client with their new puppy. Step dad says it makes him feel like a psychopath.

They also take issue with the fact that there's no screening of the appointments that are scheduled. To test it, he scheduled an appointment to a nearby hospital on the same network with the description (and I apologize for the morbidity, keep in mind this didn't really happen and he just was making a point), "Garage door was accidentally shut on my dog's head and severed it. Can you please reattach it." It was approved and apparently nobody noticed it until an hour before the appointment was supposed to happen.

On top of that, now he's started dealing with corporate politics that he's never encountered before, and he says he's worried there will come a day that he just loses all motivation to go to work.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by Johnny555 on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:20PM (#31729308)
Vet clinics become very popular private equity targets recently.

Probably because more and more people are buying pet insurance -- our insurance paid nearly $20,000 to Sage for my dog's cancer treatments. I doubt I could afford emergency vet treatments without insurance.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by shakes_mcjunkie on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:06PM (#31730130)
Yes. Pet insurance is an unregulated market and also has to be driving up prices.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by lotsofpulp on Monday June 13, 2022 @04:14PM (#31731169)
I would have guessed increases in demand for healthcare for pets greater than supply of healthcare for pets to be driving up prices.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by SomeBoolshit on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:13PM (#31730232)
It all started going a very wrong way when animal health insurance became a thing.

I've always had vets peddle weird stuff but that was a real eye opener.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by rentfree-media on Monday June 13, 2022 @04:33PM (#31731409)
Maybe we should try insurance for people going to doctors and see if that turns out any different, oh wait lol....
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by amelius on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:32PM (#31729535)
Dentists will go down the same route.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pclmulqdq on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:53PM (#31729921)
Dentists seem to generally be decent businesspeople, while doctors and vets aren't, so they may resist PE buyouts for a while.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by ROTMetro on Monday June 13, 2022 @07:08PM (#31732877)
Dentists are the worst up sellers of all. Before moving, I had all of my family checked out at the dentist we had for years. When we moved our new dentist found a lot of 'work' that needed to be done. When we asked him to consult with our old dentist to compare notes it got real awkward.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pc86 on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:10PM (#31730195)
I'm curious why this is as it seems to have been the case in my experience as well.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by pclmulqdq on Monday June 13, 2022 @04:03PM (#31731035)
My guess is that nobody becomes a dentist because they love teeth. They do it to have a stable business. Conversely, people become vets because they love animals, and people often become doctors for the prestige or the ability to help people.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by vrc on Monday June 13, 2022 @05:44PM (#31732178)
Also in my experience it’s very standard for dentists to quickly go out on their own —- many towns will have multiple dentists and none to one doctor or vet clinic.

Then again I’m seeing places like Aspen Dental popping up all over the place so who knows

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by jsiaajdsdaa on Monday June 13, 2022 @08:29PM (#31733412)
>I don't know where else to go.

A free market (scary!) would lower the barrier to entry for proper vets to compete.

But because of rent, labor, and regulatory overhead, you are left to deal with an entrenched and disinterested incumbent.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by wolverine876 on Monday June 13, 2022 @11:00PM (#31734272)
> regulatory overhead

A free market can also create an environment where pets are hurt and owners are defrauded. Regulations reduce waste, improve quality, and create more efficient markets.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by jsiaajdsdaa on Monday June 13, 2022 @11:31PM (#31734445)
If a veterinarian or anyone else has harmed or committed malpractice against your animal, you have the right to present evidence to the police and pursue criminal charges against them.

Very curious that despite all of the licensing and regulatory schemes out there, these things still happen? What's the backlog like currently for such cases?

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by wolverine876 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @12:21AM (#31734717)
> If a veterinarian or anyone else has harmed or committed malpractice against your animal, you have the right to present evidence to the police and pursue criminal charges against them.

The courts are not an efficient solution, and it's too late for your pet. I don't want to sue people, I want my pet taken care of.

> Very curious that despite all of the licensing and regulatory schemes out there, these things still happen?

I don't understand: You're saying that regulations don't perfectly prevent all bad behavior?

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by jsiaajdsdaa on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:58AM (#31736015)
>I want my pet taken care of

Strict regulations don't guarantee this. Additionally, they can be counterproductive by blocking competition, resulting in only a few compliant vets in your area who might still harm your pet.

>I don't want to sue... courts are not efficient If a monopolistic vet knows they won't lose their license or face charges/fines because a court can't take do so, why would they be incentivized to be extra careful with your pet?

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by wolverine876 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @10:18AM (#31739893)
Nobody mentioned strict regulations or eliminating courts. Effective regulation, which is definitely possible, works more than adequately.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by jsiaajdsdaa on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @12:51AM (#31749243)
Then explain why people arent tripping over themselves to offer OP veterinary services in his area.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by acegopher on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:56PM (#31730928)
> They said that some PE firms were on a mission to acquire all of the vet firms in metro areas and then drive prices up even further because the demand is so inelastic.

This is why medical care (human or pet) and capitalism don't mix well. If you are having a heart attack, you aren't comparing prices, and if your animal "child" is throwing up, you aren't calling around various vets.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by dantheman on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:39PM (#31732652)
Almost all healthcare spending is not on emergencies.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by kaashif on Monday June 13, 2022 @05:34PM (#31732074)
> This is why medical care (human or pet) and capitalism don't mix well. If you are having a heart attack, you aren't comparing prices, and if your animal "child" is throwing up, you aren't calling around various vets.

Comparing human and (non-human, but I'll omit that) animal healthcare is flawed. Humans are paying for healthcare themselves and place an infinite financial value on their own lives. Animals don't pay for their own healthcare, so it doesn't matter how much they value their own lives, what matters is how much the owner values its life, which is in many cases not at all infinite.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by brightball on Monday June 13, 2022 @08:04PM (#31733223)
PE is going after every market segment. It’s crazy.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by whimsicalism on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:27PM (#31729426)
This is how markets function - rising profits for vets will encourage more providers to enter the market.

e: Sorry, sometimes forget what kind of science denialism is cool now. Climate denial out, economics denial in.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by astockwell on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:34PM (#31729563)
Nope. Barriers to entry in the market (securing capital for initial expenditures, rising rents, rising malpractice liabilities) will make providers take positions at the PE-owned practices. Monopolization works in both directions.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by whimsicalism on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:40PM (#31729678)
As profit increases, those barriers become increasingly more worth it to climb.

Increasing profits does not make start up costs worse.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by willcipriano on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:13PM (#31730245)
The barriers go up higher as the increased profits are funneled towards the creation of new regulations to prevent competition.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by falcolas on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:51PM (#31729901)
The disproportionate-to-profit (or income) rise in secondary education costs, however, will. And that rise has the same underlying cause - the search for more money.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by PragmaticPulp on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:49PM (#31729862)
But this isn't the kind of thing that happens overnight. It takes a very long time for people to notice the profits, more people to choose to enter the veterinary field, and for them to finish education and move on to launch their own clinics.

There's also a secondary problem whereby the existing chains can incentivize new vet grads to simply join up. Why go through all of the risk and trouble of starting your own clinic when the local chain is offering a huge sign-on bonus and reasonable annual salary?

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by markovbot on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:32PM (#31729528)
I'm sure that'll be a huge relief to all the people who no longer afford healthcare for their pets. Maybe they simply should have not been poor!
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by whimsicalism on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:41PM (#31729713)
See multiple other people on this thread discussing how their vets are not taking any new customers & not raising prices.

Artificial price caps set by legislation or "benevolent" collusion of owners will only lead to fewer pets being treated overall.

This is just basic microeconomics.

Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by temp8964 on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:55PM (#31729954)
Come on! Navie understanding of the market/society is a virtue. Profit is always bad for public good. The market is just failing everywhere. Captial investment is ruining everything. Downvotes prove you are wrong.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by ROTMetro on Monday June 13, 2022 @07:13PM (#31732909)
Where is anyone saying that? They are saying Cartels are bad. Artificially capturing the market so you can dictate pricing or can push hard upsells and no longer worry about customer good will because there is no longer an alternative decent vet to deal with is not creating 'public good'.
Re:FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of vet... by temp8964 on Monday June 13, 2022 @08:27PM (#31733392)
Totally agree, capturing the market should get government approval first. All the chain businesses should be banned, of course the ones you agree with can remain open.