Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times

Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by theseanz on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:51AM (#31083079)

This reminds of the internet classic VerizonMath: http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-...

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by darknavi on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:56AM (#31083147)

Can one be nostalgic for articles like this? Every few years I see this linked and I read the whole thing every time.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by theseanz on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:59AM (#31083190)

Very much so. I can't believe it happened over 15 years ago!

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by tmp_cond_trav on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:32AM (#31083671)

Ha, never heard of this before. I had to hunt the audio down (found it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShv_74FNWU) but it was definitely worth it. Very funny! Thank you!

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by onion2k on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:49AM (#31083045)

Perhaps they'll care when I insist they sell them to me for that price, then complain to the county's Office of Consumer Affairs if they don't.

I don't know about American law, but here in the UK you would lose that complaint. A price label is what is known as an "invite to treat", and a store is under no obligation to sell the item to you at that price. If they say it's a mistake they can and you have no right to say otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invitation_to_treat

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by contravariant on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:09AM (#31083335)

Interesting, looks like laws differ in subtle ways for these kind of agreements. For reference in the Netherlands any offer you make is legally binding, though the deal has to make at least some sense to both parties (as well as satisfy a few other conditions).

A price of 1/5 ct would probably be considered too low to be sensible and would not be considered binding.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by bombcar on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:20AM (#31083509)

American Law is almost universally the opposite - HOWEVER it doesn't completely unlimit it - you'll see signs at grocery stores that say something like "in the event of a price error, the store must give you the item at the listed price refund the difference"

For example, Wisconsin:

98.08 Price refunds; price information. (1) A person who uses an electronic scanner to record the price of a commodity or thing and who sells the commodity or thing at a price higher than the posted or advertised price of that commodity or thing at least shall refund to a person who purchases the commodity or thing the difference between the posted or advertised price of the commodity or thing and the price charged at the time of sale.(2) A person who sells a commodity or thing and who uses an electronic scanner to record the price of that commodity or thing shall display, in a conspicuous manner, a sign stating the requirements of sub. (1).

https://glitchndealz.com/glitch-laws-by-state-pricing-error-...

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by stonemetal12 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:55AM (#31083130)

How far would they have to go before they ran afoul of some sort of false advertising claim?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by tshaddox on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:15AM (#31083431)

Presumably any legal system would treat the intent as the primary relevancy. In this case it is abundantly clear what the intent was (note that even the person complaining gives an explanation for what the store intended and thus is clearly not at all confused about the intent).

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by peteradio on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:06AM (#31083287)

That sounds impossible to deal with. So you pick your groceries based on price presumably and then when you get to the register they can be something totally different? So as they are getting rung up you would have to say "no thanks for that one, please put it back" on every price you are not in agreement on?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by onion2k on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:41AM (#31083794)

Technically, yes, but practically obviously not because people who run shops aren't completely stupid.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by toyg on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:28AM (#31083622)

Considering the recent news that online groceries can change prices (even dramatically) after you've ordered them, so supermarkets apply prices on the day of delivery, and you're on the hook for any difference... this doesn't surprise me one bit.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by paulcole on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:34AM (#31082847)

> Perhaps they'll care when I insist they sell them to me for that price, then complain to the county's Office of Consumer Affairs if they don't.

Did you actually do either of these things?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by johnklos on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:55AM (#31083138)

I contacted Trader Joe's corporate just today. If they don't do anything, I'll contact the Office of Consumer Affairs.

Ignorance of math is a bad thing!

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by paulcole on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:42PM (#31087173)

I think that intentional ignorance of intent is pretty awful as well. You know full well that bananas aren’t being sold for 0.19 cents each.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by johnklos on Saturday April 23, 2022 @05:22PM (#31138691)

That's an interesting take. So the implied intent is more important than their actions, even after (or particularly after ) they're told they've made a mistake and asked to fix it?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by legalcorrection on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:10AM (#31083353)

You are a bad person for doing this. For using the law for personal whimsy instead of remedying or preventing real harm to people. Grow up. Life isn't an internet joke.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by dang on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @01:01PM (#31085783)

Please don't cross into personal attack. If there was one way to make this subthread even worse, that would be it.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:40AM (#31082928)

If it's just a mistake then they are not bound to sell it for that price. Especially if everyone else can easily recognize it as a simple mistake of where the decimal is.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by civilized on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:44AM (#31082974)

Some states have laws [1] to this effect:

> The store must honor the price in the advertisement, even if it is wrong, until they correct the misrepresentation using the same advertising medium and/or by corrective signs in the store.

> Items sold in a grocery store must ring up at the lowest displayed price. Food stores that are in the waiver program must offer consumers one of the items free if it scans higher than the lowest advertised price.

[1] https://www.mass.gov/guides/a-massachusetts-consumer-guide-t...

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by andrewf on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:02AM (#31083240)

Is this actually a misrepresentation?

Does anybody reading the sign not understand what it's trying to communicate?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by metadat on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:09AM (#31083332)

The sign is perpetuating the idiocracy epidemic.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by simulate-me on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:19AM (#31083490)

Which interpretation is idiotic? Being able to take in complex signals from the environment and form an instructive opinion is the foundation of human ingenuity. Given that the bananas obviously aren't on sale for $0.0019, it seems idiotic to me ignore alternative explanations for the sign.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by moate on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @11:53AM (#31084827)

>> Given that the bananas obviously aren't on sale for $0.0019, it seems idiotic to me ignore alternative explanations for the sign.

"It's a banana Michael. What could it cost, 10 dollars?!"

You say "obvious" but I don't think that means what you think that means. Why is it obvious? Why would it be impossible that a store sells bananas at a loss in order to pull people in (what people in sales call a "loss leader")? If you don't buy bananas regularly, why couldn't you assume this is just a great deal?

If there were a sign advertising 5 bananas for a penny (or whatever) with no asterisk, fine print, or mention that "terms may apply", I would be livid if I couldn't take advantage of that price.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by simulate-me on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:14PM (#31086719)

I'm only speaking from my own personal experience, but I've never seen bananas priced at less than 1c each in the grocery store. I've also seen people misplace decimal points frequently. So, based on the thousands of times I've been to dozens of grocery stores, I'm using pattern matching to deduce that almost assuredly it's more likely that a banana listed as costing "0.19c" refers to $0.19 not $0.0019. If you ever encounter a true sub-cent banana in a retail supermarket, feel free to reach out to me and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by moate on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:13PM (#31087528)

I've frequently (more than once a year) seen "Free pound of bananas" coupons as part of circulars/loyalty coupons at supermarkets I've been to (sometimes not even requiring further purchase). I've worked in advertising and marketing for checks watch years and am familiar with all sorts of different offer types and sales models. Free or Nearly Free bananas would seem relatively reasonable, and if I didn't frequent the store enough to know they always have a "cute" sign with nonsense prices, I would still be livid if the price wasn't honored.

If you would like links: Here's a 5 year old piece about Amazon giving away bananas: https://www.foodandwine.com/news/amazons-free-bananas-disrup...

Here's a 2 year old coupon for free bananas from some couponing blog: https://www.thecouponingcouple.com/free-bananas/

Another blog, more free banana coupons: https://spoonuniversity.com/how-to/10-food-budgeting-tips-i-...

TL;dr- Don't put up bullshit pricing signs and assume people will understand the "joke", you're coming from a place of different cultural awareness and it will burn you when people like me get involved.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by simulate-me on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:24PM (#31087681)

Yes, I've seen free promotions before (of bananas and many other items). But I've never seen sub-cent bananas. Again, if you see those, let me know.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by paulcole on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:12PM (#31091985)

It’s incredibly obvious. Just ask yourself, “How would I pay for 1 banana if a banana was 0.19 cents?”

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by orangepanda on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:47AM (#31083025)

How does that work with sales tax not being included in the displayed price?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by civilized on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:53AM (#31083103)

The website is an explanation of the law, not the actual law itself. I'm sure the actual law does not require sales tax to be included in the displayed price.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by stonemetal12 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:56AM (#31083150)

Since he specifically mentions grocery stores, groceries aren't taxed.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by mminer237 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:04AM (#31083270)

TIL that's a thing. Illinois has a lower tax rate on groceries but still taxes them.

Also, grocery stores sell a lot more than just groceries.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by bombcar on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:23AM (#31083550)

State sales tax laws are all over the place; in many states the general idea is "don't tax necessities" which leads to silly things like buying a sandwich is tax free (like socks in Minnesota), but if you ask them to warm up the sandwich BEFORE sale it is taxed. If you ask them to warm up YOUR sandwich after sale, it's tax-free.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by stonemetal12 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:16AM (#31083449)

Cool, TIL grocery taxes exist.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by irrational on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:14AM (#31083425)

Or it could be a state like Oregon where there is no sales tax on anything.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by sibit on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:55AM (#31083140)

IANAL but I did spend the past year working for a company that generated and printed strips and sale tags for several major retailers across the US. We had to be pretty careful with our security because if someone accessed our system and generated a sale tag offering high-end items for $1 our customers (stores) would be obligated to sell the item for the price displayed on the sign/tag.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by johnklos on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:53AM (#31083110)

It's not a mistake if they do it repeatedly and they continue to do it even after they're made aware of it.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by forferdet on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:57AM (#31083166)

This reminds me of this hysterically funny customer service call to Verizon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShv_74FNWU

More of the backstory: https://verizonmath.blogspot.com/

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by kowlo on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:16AM (#31083455)

12 minutes in... what a journey

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by treeman79 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:56AM (#31083143)

Oh gosh. My dad did that all the time. Lots of bad memories of him keeping at yelling a t them until they agreed.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:02AM (#31083239)

ok so as I understand it .19¢ must be 19% of a penny, 19 * 5 is 95, so 95% of a penny. If you add sales tax to that, if your state has one, doesn't that come out to 5 for a penny? Are you being facetious or is .19¢ the same as $.19 and my base expectation is wrong?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by mholm on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:11AM (#31083379)

Shops commonly use .19¢ and $.19 interchangably, when they are definitely not. The poster you're replying to also realized this.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by tablespoon on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:23AM (#31083555)

> Shops commonly use .19¢ and $.19 interchangably, when they are definitely not. The poster you're replying to also realized this.

Honestly, I think the correct policy is probably just to interpret .19¢ as a syntax error.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:16AM (#31083445)

ok thanks for clarification!

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by apeace on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:03AM (#31083243)

This left me wondering: if Trader Joe's were forced to stick by their written price, how would they go about charging you the fraction of a cent? Is that even possible?

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by bombcar on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:21AM (#31083530)

Commodities are often quoted down to very small fractions of a cent, depending on what it is; you round using the normal mechanisms or have a separate agreement.

Trader Joes could sell for .19 cents and require a minimum purchase of ten pounds, for example.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by darknavi on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:07AM (#31083302)

Ask gas stations. Every single gas station charges .9 cents at the end of the price.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by Aeronwen on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @12:25PM (#31085328)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mill_(currency)#United_States

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by couchand on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:18AM (#31083475)

Except Donny's Discount Gas!

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by burlesona on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:46AM (#31083006)

Do you have a photo of this? I would love to see an example :)

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by johnklos on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:54AM (#31083121)

I should've taken a picture of the bananas, but here's a picture of limes being sold for three for a penny:

https://www.klos.com/~john/limes.jpeg

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by cm2012 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:06AM (#31083290)

That's a tad pedantic. They add the . so people immediately know its not $29, and that it's a low number. No one sells things for decimals of a penny. I think they gain more legibility than they lose on average by writing it that way.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by nyjah on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:00AM (#31083199)

Where does it say 3 limes for a penny? It clearly says 1 lime for $0.29? It says it 3 times in that photo, but I don't see the penny claim anywhere.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by tsimionescu on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:04AM (#31083264)

No, the (painted) sign is saying .29¢, not $.29. It's a hundred times cheaper than $.29.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by BostonEnginerd on Thursday April 21, 2022 @07:21AM (#31108045)

It says limes are 0.29 cents each on the sign, not $0.29.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by bombcar on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:25AM (#31083589)

I wonder if they can argue that the "painted sign" is just entertainment; the actual sticker in the lower right is correct (.29$ and 29¢)

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by aero-glide2 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:03AM (#31083253)

It says .29 cents not dollars :)

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by cillian64 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:04AM (#31083255)

The painted part says “.29c”

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by kodisha on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:04AM (#31083267)

$ !== ¢

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by usrn on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:01AM (#31083213)

Those are usually price per unit mass. (though the "/lb" might be very small.)

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by jollybean on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:09AM (#31083337)

That's different though.

That method of representing price has been normalized.

We all know what it means.

That's different than miscommunication something.

My pet theory, is that putting 30c just 'feels' bigger to people. So a long time ago, everyone started putting .30c.

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Re:Everyone gets numbers wrong, even the New York Times by veltas on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:09AM (#31083331)

That's how many people write 19 cents. For some people a decimal point is the thing that goes between dollars and cents. Yes, not a very rigorous system, not something you'll see in engineering or science, but something I see on shop signs.

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