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Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by teilo on Monday April 11, 2022 @03:39PM (#30993704)
Someone needs to tell him about option-click on the maximize button.

Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the same way as the OS I am used to." That's why 3rd party utilities exist to give you the functionality you wish to have. That formula cuts both ways.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by darkteflon on Monday April 11, 2022 @06:08PM (#30995736)
Absolutely - these ranty invectives are so tedious. The idea that something is fundamentally broken because it doesn’t work the way you expect it to.

I struggle through each of my Windows sessions despite having used Windows since the 80s and having built probably more than 10 PCs over the past 30 years. I don’t blame Windows for that. I daily drive MacOS and that’s what I’m used to. That’s a me problem, not a Windows problem.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by headsoup on Monday April 11, 2022 @07:52PM (#30996771)
These responses are also tedious, in that a negative opinion can't be valid and the user just didn't 'do it properly.' The author went to the effort of providing the rationale for his opinion at least.

Per your second point. Why is that not a Windows problem? Because a lot of other people don't experience it? Just because a whole heap of people can work with Windows might mean they just got used to it, rather than it was good in the first place, which goes back to your first sentence.

No OS is 'good' for everyone, as no OS is 'bad' for everyone.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by darkteflon on Monday April 11, 2022 @08:20PM (#30996990)
I can see that my comment did look like it was accusing the author of TFA of engaging in a rant. That’s my bad - I was instead responding to parent’s second paragraph.

As to your second point: I agree. Those specific discussions around what people like and dislike, and why, are interesting and thought-provoking. The low-effort “loll Apple drone” hot-takes that pop up on all of these threads, less so.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by headsoup on Monday April 11, 2022 @10:16PM (#30997824)
Ah ok, I see and yes agreed.

It is frustrating when interesting conversation/debate points are drowned out by the inevitable 'troll' comments that explode the threads into pointless arguments.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by npigrounet on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @08:38AM (#31001812)
No, no, don't worry: Windows is the problem.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by JoelMcCracken on Monday April 11, 2022 @07:28PM (#30996550)
“France is really dumb because I can’t understand what they are saying. Look, even England does it the way I know!”
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by chillacy on Monday April 11, 2022 @09:10PM (#30997356)
"Impressions from a first-time english speaker"

> A little background on me: I’ve been speaking French and Spanish my entire professional life

...

> The Bad

> I’m accustomed to gendered pronouns in both French and Spanish, so it was nice to see that in English. However, the lack of gendered nouns is awful. French and Spanish both have what I would call “sane” gendered nouns (shown in this dictionary), where you know of everyone's gender based on the adjective you hear.

> On the other hand, English has a weird grammatical system where you need to listen to the pronoun to know someone or something's gender. I want to know if someone is a man, a woman, or a chair based on the adjective, not just the pronoun.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by KyeRussell on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @04:30AM (#31000025)
A fun parallel. Consider the importance being placed on gender to be in part a malleable cultural factor in part perpetuated by language. Plenty on this in the sphere of ‘gender studies’.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by throwaway675309 on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @03:12PM (#31007029)
I hate that idea, it's effectively overloading a noun that objectively speaking should only contain information that is intrinsic to the properties of the noun itself. A chair or other inanimate objects do not have genders, and forcing a non-native speaker to conjugate a noun correctly just adds to the mental complexity.

Side note: this is why I love grammatically simple languages such as Chinese.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by JoelMcCracken on Monday April 11, 2022 @09:45PM (#30997606)
Very fine, you took my stupid comment and made it something good.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by jayd16 on Monday April 11, 2022 @03:55PM (#30993941)
This is Apple UX in a nutshell. Hidden power tools are not intuitive.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by Tagbert on Monday April 11, 2022 @04:10PM (#30994186)
In part it is about progressive complexity. The simple things are exposed, more complex options require extra effort to access. Certainly there are times when it would be nice to make it easier to discover the more advanced features but there will always be a tension between keeping defaults simple for new users and exposing advanced features for the more serious users. Often they do it correctly but sometimes there are misses.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by lwkl on Monday April 11, 2022 @07:08PM (#30996350)
How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way.

I'd argue a lot of power user feature are more accessible on macOS than on Windows. The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts. How are you supposed to find them on Windows?

I think people see macOS as more intuitive because it doesn't offer as much customization and is relatively consistent compared to Windows. Also it doesn't have as many nested menus. The system settings on macOS go maybe three levels deep while on Windows you can go at least 5 or six levels deep if not more. Now guess which one will feel more intuitive?

The downside is you have to install some third-party tools if you want some features. But I prefer that to a lot of bloat.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by diffeomorphism on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @02:56AM (#30999492)
> How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way.

Meanwhile the post just below yours: "I have been using macs for 9 years and never knew ...". So, no. They don't. "Power user" things are much less discoverable on macs.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by FeepingCreature on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @05:05AM (#31000233)
In KDE, you discover features by trawling the settings. :-)

"[x] Enable FooBar mode" oh hey, this tool has a FooBar mode!

In my experience, almost the first thing I do when trying a new program is having a look through the settings.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by jayd16 on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @08:45PM (#31009949)
>The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts.

Can they? Where can I find the shortcut to copy the current path in Finder?

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by _aavaa_ on Monday April 11, 2022 @06:02PM (#30995662)
We can argue about them being intuitive or not, but at least they exist.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by thiagocmoraes on Monday April 11, 2022 @05:02PM (#30994985)
I've been using macs for 9 years and never knew about option+click. Granted I've been using apps for window management since forever as the native tools suck or are almost hidden.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by kitsunesoba on Monday April 11, 2022 @07:59PM (#30996823)
Just FYI, holding down modifiers to reveal additional functions is a common theme in macOS. In the Finder for example, try holding down option and shift while looking through menus for a few examples. Holding down option while clicking the close or minimize buttons in apps will also close or minimize all windows for that app.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by guywhocodes on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @09:29AM (#31002432)
2 years into being forced to use them for work and this is the first time I even hear anyone mention this. Thanks!, I'll be checking it out first thing in the morning
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by kevingadd on Monday April 11, 2022 @08:04PM (#30996867)
People on corp hardware can't install third party utilities, though. You're basically saying "it's fine that this OS can't do what you need it to do, because I can customize it for my purposes". Not to mention - even if the author could install those third party utilities, now they're pulling untrusted code into a work environment and potentially exposing trade secrets to random software developers. Any IT department paying attention would not okay most of those tools. The stuff the author complains about missing is built in on Windows and Linux and is not particularly niche or complex.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by Noumenon72 on Monday April 11, 2022 @09:37PM (#30997547)
My job lets me use everything from Contexts to Karabiner and I am so happy. Now I'm afraid to ever switch jobs and lose my productivity.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by tener on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @06:30AM (#31000769)
It is hilarious that a button called "zoom" only does "zoom" when you use its alternative functionality and by default does something completely different.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by dont__panic on Monday April 11, 2022 @04:10PM (#30994191)
Yep, as someone who's gotten really really dependent on app Exposé on macOS... it's hard for me to switch to a keyboard for things I'd rather do on the trackpad!

I do have to agree, though, that macOS window management can feel a bit clunky using a mouse and keyboard. That's a user story that the macOS UI/UX team ought to look into, it wouldn't be that hard to create some decent bindings in the OS itself.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by josho on Monday April 11, 2022 @03:57PM (#30993966)
Or double click on the window to perform the original Mac Zoom function.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by knolan on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @04:15AM (#30999935)
You don’t even have to use the green zoom button. Just double click the top of the window like in every other OS. The difference is that zooming a window is not the same as maximising. It makes the window as big as the content it contains.

Also you can double click the edge of any window to extend it to the edge of the screen.

I really don’t get the obsession for tiling windows personally. It’s not part of my workflow.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by wyclif on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @04:19AM (#30999956)
Apple calls the green button “zoom” in their documentation, but its default function is fullscreen, not zoom.

I've always found that a bit disorienting. I guess Apple just decided that "zoom" is better as a name because it's one short word instead of two.

Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by knolan on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @07:32AM (#31001162)
Yes, they switched the behaviour shortly after they added the full screen mode merging it with a separate full screen icon they had introduced. The old behaviour is retained by option clicking the green button. It's annoying and I wish they kept it as was.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by stouset on Monday April 11, 2022 @03:57PM (#30993970)
Or double-clicking the window chrome.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by olyjohn on Monday April 11, 2022 @04:09PM (#30994184)
That works... most of the time.
Re:Impressions from a first-time Mac user by lemoncucumber on Monday April 11, 2022 @04:08PM (#30994162)
I set up a custom "All Applications" keyboard shortcut for the Zoom command, it's really handy.