News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by PostOnce on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:09PM (#30925075)
"stagnant company"

Why must every company sustain boundless growth and 24-hour engagement? Change and growth for their own sake can be cancers.

Twitter does what it does and people like it (as seen by the fact that they all use it), yet armchair generals cry out that twitter's refusal to turn into "not twitter" is somehow a failure of engineering and management, or some form of incompetence.

So, I disagree, I guess.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by 0xffff2 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:14PM (#30925133)
While I agree with you, at the same time if Twitter as a company isn't really doing much, why do they have thousands of developers on staff? I don't think there's anything wrong with being a stable, profitable company, but logically it should also come with a whole lot of layoffs.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by MisterSandman on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:19PM (#30925181)
> at the same time if Twitter as a company isn't really doing much, why do they have thousands of developers on staff?

...to keep the app running? New devices, new standards, a lot of things change that you need devs to keep up with.

Also, what's up with people saying twitter is stagnant? They've added Spaces, Twitter Blue and Crypto Profile Pictures - all 3 massive features added to their product. They're all trash, but that's besides the point.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by honkdaddy on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:57PM (#30926201)
FWIW, I have a close friend who worked on Twitter's "Health" team whose job at one point was building mini games for the support/moderation staff to play during company mandated breaks in between looking at racist tweets and CP. He coasted for a while then moved onto a job with more work.

This is entirely anecdotal, but from the little I know from his couple months there, Twitter has no idea what to do with the huge amount of engineers they employ. This is by no means an endorsement of Musk, but the company could use some new direction I think.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by codeisawesome on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:23PM (#30927324)
That seems like an actually valuable, human thing to work on vs the garbage many devs find themselves working on. Mini games can also be super engaging to build and are a showcase for creativity… I’m really not seeing the problem.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by teen on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:00PM (#30927995)
Get them a steam account? It's cheaper
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by heavenlyblue on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @07:53AM (#30931024)
They could just give support staff a proper break and let them do whatever they want with that break (including playing the games they want to play if they deem necessary)
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by http-teapot on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:05PM (#30926758)
I am an ex-Twitter engineer with long tenure. You are sharing hearsay. It's not worth very much.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by InCityDreams on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:34PM (#30927411)
So....tell us the truth.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by http-teapot on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:30PM (#30927826)
At the scale of a company like Twitter, my point of view ain’t worth much either and pretending to hold the truth would be pretentious.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by kmonsen on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:48PM (#30927938)
There is a difference between the truth and a truth. It wouldn't be pretentious to share something of your story and how you saw it in the larger picture.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by http-teapot on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @01:47AM (#30928859)
That’s fair but disinformation and the lack of actions against it was part of why I left Twitter. As such, I feel strongly about my experience not being interpreted as the truth or that a significant portion of the company shares the same views as I do.

I feel like public discourse has increasingly been more and more polarizing and anecdotes and hearsay are being leveraged to create further divisions.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by kmonsen on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:53PM (#30934603)
I can certainly share your concern here, but not sure what can be done about this. Since you probably have done more thinking in this space, what are some things you think are possible?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by jchw on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:46PM (#30927919)
While I understand what you’re getting at, this is basically pointless, because nobody is going to accept hand wavey “you can never know, so don’t even try!”-type answers. Even if that is the best way to go.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by wussboy on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:44PM (#30928247)
I’m not accusing GP of this necessarily, but quite often the view “since we can’t know everything, we can’t know anything” is considered wisdom.

To the GP: we all understand that your experience isn’t the same experience of everyone, but it is AN experience, and would be useful to us who don’t have any experience.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by formerkrogeremp on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @09:35AM (#30931782)
"All models are wrong. Some models are useful."
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by honkdaddy on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @09:36AM (#30931785)
Which part is hearsay?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by tharne on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @01:23PM (#30935004)
> This is entirely anecdotal, but from the little I know from his couple months there, Twitter has no idea what to do with the huge amount of engineers they employ.

I wonder why I keep getting LinkedIn and email notifications about engineering jobs at Twitter.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by kerkeslager on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:40PM (#30926033)
> They're all trash, but that's besides the point.

No, that's exactly the point. Just because you make something doesn't mean it was progress.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by cyberlurker on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:47PM (#30926112)
R&D is not useless.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by spurgu on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:01PM (#30927145)
Law of diminishing returns.

We're talking about a simple platform of people relaying updates of 140 characters with a comment section and a feed algorithm to aggregate the content to everyone with a focus on prolonging everyone's engagement time while also following guidelines on what's "politically correct". There's only so much you can do, unless you venture out into manipulating public discourse, or striving to become a nation-state (or at least its propaganda machinery) or taking over the world (with all the imaginable internet services provided by you - email, storage, encyclopedias, news etc).

At some point you should stop and think about your core business. And at some point you should realize that the law of diminishing returns applies. And at some point you should realize that it's fine to provide a stable service to a stable amount of users with a stable amount of features. Not that much R&D required.

Or, rather, this is how our society would have to work in order to stay healthy. Living on a planet with finite resources while using them up like they're not is a sure-fire way to doom. We already know enough about farming for example to make it sustainable. We just don't know how to do it in a way where we don't cut down production considerably and starving a lot of people in the process. Not a nice topic to bring up i your election speech.

But it's nice to ride the train since things seemingly move forward thanks to rising inflation (which is due to the problem in the first place) and the price of your product can go up.

Oh, I might've misunderstood you as well.

/remindme 20 years

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by nradov on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:21PM (#30927756)
Regenerative agriculture practices can allow us to make farming sustainable without cutting down production. In fact, we can actually increase production — or at least avoid loss of production due to soil depletion.

https://doi.org/10.1177%2F0030727021998063

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by MrMan on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @05:14PM (#30937495)
you should make a separate HN post about this
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by nradov on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @06:23PM (#30938216)
There have already been multiple posts about regenerative agriculture, like this one.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27809279

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by brigandish on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:51AM (#30928610)
Economic growth is not only driven by the use of new resources but by the increasingly efficient use of existing resources. The real problem is stated in Jevon's paradox[1], that demand is increasing faster than supply, regardless of efficiency, which points the the real real problem, which is that the population is increasing too quickly (though it may slow down and become stable).

Provide females around the world access to education, birth control, and opportunity in the job market and this problem will fix itself. To do that, however, would mean allowing the kind of discourse that Twitter is inclined suppress and many of its more vocal users would call "racist" i.e. being able to criticise cultures that don't give females these opportunities.

And we're back to Twitter and free speech.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by 6510 on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @05:48PM (#30937856)
> it's fine to provide a stable service to a stable amount of users with a stable amount of features

like RSS?

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by smachiz on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:01PM (#30927146)
Calling that R&D is disingenuous. You can learn valuable things on your way to making stupidity, of course, but that's not R&D.

Twitter does a fair amount of OSS, though I can't see a lot of contributions that probabilistically out of Spaces.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by noizejoy on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:26PM (#30927788)
> Calling that R&D is disingenuous. You can learn valuable things on your way to making stupidity, of course, but that's not R&D.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your take, but for tax accounting, a lot of “stupid” programming counts as R&D.

But more importantly, stupidity is in the eye of the beholder or hindsight, or both.

e.g. I would have called a streaming service for gamers to be watched by adoring fans utter stupidity. Maybe that’s also why I’m not rich.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by cudgy on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @06:45AM (#30930566)
> I would have called a streaming service for gamers to be watched by adoring fans utter stupidity. Maybe that’s also why I’m not rich.

Is Discord profitable yet? Reported revenue and users is up significantly post-covid, but that does not necessarily mean there are profits. Your instincts may be under-estimated.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by kerkeslager on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @10:58AM (#31003601)
Agreed.

However, releasing every half-baked misfeature that comes out of R&D is useless.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by ehnto on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:55PM (#30927585)
> ...to keep the app running? New devices, new standards, a lot of things change that you need devs to keep up with.

I guess, and I imagine at their size they probably run pretty inefficiently. It just seems like a surprisingly big team. From all fronts really, not just development but design too, does it really take that much effort to keep Twitter "twittery"?

> Crypto Profile Pictures

Straight out of a satire piece, I had not heard about that.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by nl on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:17PM (#30928102)
> They've added Spaces, Twitter Blue and Crypto Profile Pictures - all 3 massive features added to their product.

I think your definition of "massive" is different to mine.

Spaces is at least a new medium. The other two are incremental features that a small (<10 person) team would ship in a few months at another FANG company.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by xiphias2 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:58PM (#30926221)
Spaces is amazing. It was great listening Nayib Bukele, the president of El Salvador talk while they were making history by voting Bitcoin to be adopted as legal tender in the country. He was just looking at his Twitter feed at that time, and was interested in what people are talking about the bill in spaces.

I know he's controversial, but I wish more politicians would make themselves more accessible through Twitter (and I'm not a Trump fan, I just think he used it more effectively than other politicians).

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by epolanski on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:37PM (#30926551)
Yeah, they give lunatics like Nayib a voice, by the way good luck going to el salvador and hope to use bitcoin.

But so does Instagram and Facebook and other socials. Politicians doing live QAs on facebook was happening a decade ago already, since live streams were a thing.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by spurgu on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:04PM (#30927169)
Giving people a voice sure seems like a clear downside of this whole internet thing. Or does it simply mean that humanity is fucking destructive (while individual humans generally are beautiful)?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by epolanski on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @06:24AM (#30930425)
It's not a downside.

The downside is that we don't teach critical thinking to children in school.

So you end up with adults that believe whatever tv tells them or will buy any compelling argument without trying to debunk it first.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by MrMan on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @05:19PM (#30937534)
I wish HN had bots, I would write one to debunk this critical thinking fallacy with respect to social media.

Better powers of discrimination, higher IQ, are illusory when it comes to inoculating yourself against propaganda.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by cudgy on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @06:58AM (#30930658)
And with more opinions available to people, there is less likelihood of a large mass galvanized around one crazy theory (the one that the overlords deem not crazy).
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by formerkrogeremp on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @09:40AM (#30931828)
I don't think that's necessarily true. Is QAnon not an issue? The church of scientology? There are a lot of large groups of people "galvanized around one crazy theory." But, maybe you're right that if they're exposed to more, non crazy views that they'll be better off and less galvanized. How would we test the hypothesis? I wonder if you took some fox news viewers and showed them CNN for a month or so if that would change their worldview?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by randbox on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:43PM (#30926603)
So it's amazing at miseducating and misinforming politicians in impoverished countries?

In industrial economies money is credit and countries issue their own money by setting up a banking system to lend it into existence on security of domestic tangible capital to promote wealth formation and create liquidity for domestic employers to make payroll. Since the early 1700s western governments have known how to create stable money from nothing without any gold, private banks, or external investors by lending it into existence through land loan office system.

It looks like El Salvador didn't create its own money before and was just using US Dollars sent back by emigrants though.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by ceeplusplus on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:46PM (#30925448)
Those things you mention hardly justify thousands of expensive developers to maintain and create. I bet a team of 10 top notch engineers could create Spaces+Blue+Crypto pfp's in a couple months and run it at Twitter scale. Don't forget Instagram was acquired when it had 13 employees serving tens of millions of users.

Speaking out of experience, most engineers in big tech are bike shedding on internal tools that don't do anything useful. A small minority deliver the majority of the impact. On top of that at companies like Twitter and Google some of those useless employees spend their time complaining about social justice initiatives rather than doing work.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by dkislyuk on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:10PM (#30925724)
I think this is a pretty naive take. Developing anything at Twitter-scale will run into security considerations, infrastructure development or optimization, constructing data workflows, multiple design iterations, UX design (how do people find and use this feature?), i18n, accessibility, product marketing, user testing, copy testing, and other functions and that’s not even considering the actual product development, which is of course across multiple platforms. See also: https://danluu.com/sounds-easy/
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by mccorrinall on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:05PM (#30926276)
Instagram scaled to a 1bn usd valuation with 13 employees. Then they got acquired by facebook.

Instagram is still pretty lean from what I’ve heard.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by TuringNYC on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:14PM (#30927255)
Build the product, sure. Build the product to scale across the world?...I strongly disagree.

Pre-revenue that is possible. Post revenue, you'd need at least lawyers and accountants in each country you operate in. Then you need systems to respond to subpeonas and legal requests, that is a hundred people right there.

IG was 13 employees when you had a fraction of the images and they didnt have to be profitable, rather just grow by burning $. Now consider scale and profitability and you need even more people to grow tech cost consciously.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by cudgy on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @06:53AM (#30930619)
> Now consider scale and profitability and you need even more people to grow tech cost consciously.

This seems intuitively false. Adding more people to tech domains can actually decrease effectiveness with more expense, resulting in lower profits. Obviously, there is a sweet spot, but Twitter is a basic product regardless of how many countries it operates within.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by TuringNYC on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @11:36AM (#30933334)
I'm curious about your opinion on this. I may be thinking about this incorrectly.

Suppose you are Twitter and operating in, say, {Ghana, Russia, Korea, Mexico, and Pakistan}. You're served with subpoenas and legal IP requests in each country. If you dont respond in time, your license to operate may be revoked. Each request is in the native language. How do you "scale" this technically? Can one lawyer handle these across the world? How?

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by cudgy on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:06AM (#30942621)
First recognize that lawyers are not a technical issue and that mostly they handle independent cases and subpoena requests. Since the work is fairly compartmentalized (unlike software development) throwing more people at the problem has less of a consequence. Hire a law firm in each country to handle your cases; No need to have lawyers all over the world as employees. Have a small team of international lawyers as employees or hire them as contractors to oversee the contracted teams of lawyers around the world and negotiate when needed.

Furthermore, developing tech for managing this is likely to be unnecessary as there are existing software packages already out there. Doing business across the world and handling legal issues is not unique to Twitter.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by TuringNYC on Thursday April 07, 2022 @08:35PM (#30952011)
>> Hire a law firm in each country to handle your cases; No need to have lawyers all over the world as employees. Have a small team of international lawyers as employees or hire them as contractors to oversee the contracted teams of lawyers around the world and negotiate when needed.

I generally agree with your response, but note that you've just converted FTEs to contractors/outsourcers and "reduced" FTEs that way. You'd have to do the same with accountants and many other country-level positions. But w2-->1099 isnt really a "win".

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by phillipcarter on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:44PM (#30926612)
I don't think Instagram had to seriously tackle the kinds of problems you're replying to prior to that acquisition. But when you're a big time tech company, the minimum bar is simply higher. That means more humans.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by majormajor on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:53PM (#30926671)
There is a huge difference between building a clone today on top of today's tools and commodity cloud platforms versus building it originally on what was around in 2006 and then having to constantly add features, change things, and then maintain 15 years worth of accumulated special edge cases forever without downtime.

Comparing to Instagram seems pretty unfair too as it's newer, it was even-more-featured-limited for a long time, is now part of a much larger behemoth and had much lower scale than today's twitter when it was acquired, and my guess would be that it's an easier scaling problem too (lower on post frequency, more read-heavy workload).

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by throwanem on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:50PM (#30925499)
Speaking out of what experience? You've just appealed to your own authority; it seems not out of line to ask whence that comes.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by ceeplusplus on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:00PM (#30925619)
Working at several big tech companies in industry. I can't say my experience is fully representative but I do start to see a pattern when my experiences line up with that of all my friends. There are a _lot_ of internal tools and anecdotally many of them seem like they're designed to abstract away things which wouldn't need abstracting for a company that exclusively hired high performing engineers.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by WesternWind on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:02PM (#30926249)
Plenty of things are abstracted not because they need to be, but because they can be, and doing so increases efficiency, security, the ability to scale, and the ability of engineers to reason about the development.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by djbusby on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:47PM (#30926634)
And do the task consistently and correctly.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by WatchDog on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:27PM (#30926471)
Even highly effective engineers will have trouble delivering features, in a large company, when they could easily deliver the same features in a smaller company. Process and politics is part of it, but the one of the problems with having so many developers, is that these developers end up writing code, all of that code ends up making things more complicated than they need to be, which makes introducing new features more complicated, due to all the systems you need to integrate with.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by kyawzazaw on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:18PM (#30925177)
Maybe maintenance of current user base itself requires lots of innovation although not ground breaking(thus jobs)?

Why the need for layoffs?

They did make Twitter Spaces and so far, that move alone has shadowed Clubhouse even though itself is not doing well. Also built discontinued Fleets.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by slickdork on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:48PM (#30926643)
Your post reminded me of one of my favorite quotes.

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” - Edward Abbey

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by spurgu on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:25PM (#30926902)
Love it! Thanks for sharing, I just discovered Edward Abbey.

> Abbey also left instructions on what to do with his remains: Abbey wanted his body transported in the bed of a pickup truck and wished to be buried as soon as possible. He did not want to be embalmed or placed in a coffin. Instead, he preferred to be placed inside of an old sleeping bag and requested that his friends disregard all state laws concerning burial. "I want my body to help fertilize the growth of a cactus or cliff rose or sagebrush or tree," said the message. For his funeral, Abbey stated, "No formal speeches desired, though the deceased will not interfere if someone feels the urge. But keep it all simple and brief." He requested gunfire and bagpipe music, a cheerful and raucous wake, "[a]nd a flood of beer and booze! Lots of singing, dancing, talking, hollering, laughing, and lovemaking."

Putting Desert Solitaire on my reading list.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by devmunchies on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:03AM (#30928326)
if you're interested in some more hot takes, try Pentti Linkola's "Can Life Prevail".

Be warned about his views of democracy and the US. He opposed the consumerism of the US and sees democracy as "me, me, me" politics, where people vote for what they want now (or what they're told they want) rather doing the uncomfortable thing today for the sake of tomorrow.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by spurgu on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:58PM (#30934659)
I actually started reading it a couple of days ago. :)
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by octodog on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:15PM (#30927709)
You can disagree but you're wrong. Twitter is the definition of a stagnant company.

The stock has gone nowhere since its IPO and Twitter has never paid a dividend. It has revenue of $5bn but cannot seem to turn a meaningful profit and is not growing.

So far it has been a massive failure for shareholders, who are the stakeholders that the board and management are actually there to serve.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by spanktheuser on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:50PM (#30927945)
> The stock has gone nowhere since its IPO and Twitter has never paid a dividend.

This is a terribly short-sighted and impoverished definition of stagnation. If Elon shakes things up and Twitter generates 2x the profit and 2x the social destruction as Facebook would you call them a vibrant and successful concern?

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by octodog on Wednesday April 13, 2022 @07:23AM (#31013373)
If things were radically different would I describe Twitter differently? Yes.

Is Twitter currently generating twice the profit of Facebook? No. Pretty straightforward.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by fleddr on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:26PM (#30925252)
I get what you're saying from a moral point of view, but we live in the real world.

In the real world, Twitter is a public company. It has existed for a long time and has barely every made a penny. It fails in comparison to other high growth networks (Facebook, Tiktok, Youtube).

And it's not an armchair comment. Twitter's own PMs have openly admitted to some of its flaws, it's failure to appeal to the masses. They're self-aware about their own incompetence.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by stjohnswarts on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:14PM (#30925123)
Why do they need so many engineers though. It's not like twitter is facebook or gmail or apple tv where things are constantly shifting? I think the point was why does it take so many people? They should be raking in the cash after a 25% cull. Just saying this from the point of view if I was interested in buying their stock.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by pengaru on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:08PM (#30925702)
> Twitter does what it does and people like it (as seen by the fact that they all use it)

Last I checked not even half the US population is on twitter, not even close to half. Who is this "all" in "they all use it?"

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by olliej on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:19PM (#30925816)
The 217 million active daily users? It is "only" $~80 million in the US, I'd love to know how a quarter of the US population using it daily represents an insignificant user base.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by HWR_14 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:59PM (#30926226)
What percentage of those 80 million users are individuals vs companies or bots?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by pengaru on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:40PM (#30926027)
> I'd love to know how a quarter of the US population using it daily represents an insignificant user base

I'd love to know which variant of the English language treats "all" as analogous to not "insignificant".

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by saurik on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:58PM (#30926222)
Near as I have ever seen, most English speakers actually do mean something more like that when they say "all": maybe it would be good to mentally model it as "it feels as if it would be hard to choose at random and not find this statement to be true".
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by pengaru on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:06PM (#30926288)
If you say "all" you better at least mean "most".

We're not even over half in this case. If this person actually believes most people are already using twitter, it's clearly a problem when it comes to informing a judgement of stagnant growth.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by saurik on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:23PM (#30926439)
Sort of? The thing to realize is that your average speaker leans heavily into the "no true scotsman" fallacy in order to make sense of the world quickly, and so they heavily bias that random distribution from which they are selecting candidates. While I wouldn't personally say "all" in this exact case, it certainly does feel to me as if there isn't anyone new for Twitter to really target, as you have to first discount most of the old people, "all" ;P of the young people, and a depressing number of people who really don't have the resources--time or money--to buy into technological society. Do you seriously believe there is some useful untapped market of people using other social networks--or are even in the target market for a social network but who somehow haven't started using one yet--who aren't using Twitter? I hate Twitter--I'd dare say it is by far my least favorite major social network by far--and even I use the damned thing :(.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by johnny22 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:43PM (#30927495)
I read it as "all the people who use twitter" not "all people use twitter"
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by FireBeyond on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:56PM (#30936075)
"People who like using Twitter keep using it" is not exactly revelatory though.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by sllewe on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:14PM (#30925125)
Because that growth is used as a substitute for profit (or net income or EBITDA - take your pick). For a public company having one or the other (or rarely, both) keeps the ticker price moving in the right direction.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by tharne on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @01:21PM (#30934979)
> Why must every company sustain boundless growth and 24-hour engagement? Change and growth for their own sake can be cancers.

I agree with you on this, but I think the parent commenter was implying that if you're going to be employing thousands of engineers, you ought to have something to show for it.

It's fine to move into a "steady state", but your engineering team should eventually reflect that reality.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by ergocoder on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:13PM (#30927249)
I agree with you. Not every company wants to grow.

But Twitter and twitter employees want the company to grow. But they fail to do so.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by ehnto on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:48PM (#30927521)
I agree on one hand, it's a perversion of business that seems to manifest in venture capital bubbles that growth is never satisfied. On the other hand, what are they doing with all that talent?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by cudgy on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @07:06AM (#30930710)
The question is “what is all that talent doing with Twitter?” Truly talented people are typically restless and discontent with mediocrity. Perhaps, the talent is overrated?
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by kumarvvr on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:35PM (#30927418)
I think the correct word is a "changing" company. In a static environment, without competing products like IG, FB etc, Twitter can afford to stay the way it is and probably do incremental improvements.

However, in a competitive environment, and with proof that the market is expanding (Newer generation of kids are using social media), if it fails to capture the market, the company will die out.

So, there is this need to focus on user number growth.

I am sure that if the company was only adding older people, the stock would be punished inspite of growing numbers.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by wolframhempel on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @08:20AM (#30931206)
I appreciate this sounds counterintuitive, but even in order to stay where it is, a company needs to grow. "Staying where you are" would mean to grow by at least as much as the current inflation rate - which in Feb 22 was 7.9% annualized in the US. Anything below that would be decline - and we're not even talking about fighting off competition, offsetting the dollar value against other currencies etc.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by imtringued on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:43PM (#30925418)
Because investors have options like sitting on their money until a recession comes along and buying things during the fire sale.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by onelovetwo on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:19PM (#30925183)
Well even their team disagrees with you, they have for the last years chosen to focus on things like stories (dead), clubhouse (soon dead)instead of working on removing spam/scams
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by astrange on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:34PM (#30926961)
Twitter Spaces is good. Twitter is also very popular in Japan and Spaces isn't only a Clubhouse competitor, it's also a Twitcasting competitor over there.

Though, twitcasting has more monetization options and Twitter only has super followers which nobody actually uses yet.

Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by onelovetwo on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:58PM (#30936117)
Twitter Spaces will die, its only a matter of time.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by nullc on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:42PM (#30927490)
Well, if they're not going to develop new things they could take big hunk of the billion dollars a year that they're spending on it and return it to the shareholders.
Re:Elon Musk to join Twitter’s board of directors by IIAOPSW on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:34PM (#30926534)
The shareholders ain't here to fuck spiders.