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Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by Gatsky on Sunday February 06, 2022 @04:21PM (#30237128)
There was a lot of work on microbiome and cancer immunotherapy... the latest study in the field published in the most prestigious journal there is [1] seemed to show that fibre intake was more important than any specific microbe. In fact they found that eating more fibre and taking probiotics resulted in worse outcomes than just eating more fibre alone. This was recapitulated in a mouse model:

> Together, these data have important implications. We show that dietary fiber and probiotic use, factors known to affect the gut microbiome, are associated with differential outcomes to ICB. Although causality cannot be addressed from the observational human cohort, where unmeasured confounders may exist, our preclinical models support the hypothesis that dietary fiber and probiotics modulate the microbiome and that antitumor immunity is impaired in mice receiving a low-fiber diet and in those receiving probiotics—with suppression of intratumoral IFN-γ T cell responses in both cases.

It would be a bit disappointing if the final conclusion from all this microbiome work was 'Eat more vegetables'...

[1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaz7015

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by nemo44x on Sunday February 06, 2022 @06:14PM (#30238072)
Fiber is so incredibly important and much of our food in the West doesn’t have much of it. We see colon cancers and diverticulitis in people in their 30’s and even late 20’s nowadays. This wasn’t the case years ago and it’s not the case in Asian or African countries.

But we don’t think it’s genetic because we see diverticulitis in people from these parts of the world 10 years after moving to the West. It’s thought that these places consume more fiber by virtue of eating more roughage.

Fiber + hydration is so important. You need to keep the waste moving. If it’s slow and hard on the gut lining you end up sounding these tissues opening them to disease.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by doublepg23 on Sunday February 06, 2022 @10:55PM (#30240179)
I've been tracking my food the past couple months and it's pretty eye opening how much fiber I've been lacking. Now taking supplements, but is there a food you'd recommend in particular?

It's silly, especially to admit on this forum, but I found the Hidrate water bottle that tracks your water consumption actually increased my water intake loads as well.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by ycombinete on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:36AM (#30241137)
I find frozen veggies like peas and corn, and fresh green beans are fantastic. They go with everything, and can be prepared in 5 minutes!

Also cruciferous green vegetables, potatoes (boiled or baked, not fried).

I don’t eat salads because of my hiatus hernia, and I generally prefer cooked food, but they are also good.

For breakfast I eat grains. Oats (quick cooking mixed with steel-cut). Or sorghum, and even wheat grains also make really nice cooked cereals.

Also can’t forget the other legumes/pulses lie lentils and chickpeas!

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by MathCodeLove on Sunday February 06, 2022 @11:00PM (#30240227)
Personally I like to eat sliced green bell pepper, carrots, celery, and tomatoes with lite ranch as both a snack and often breakfast/"desert". Not entirely sure exactly how much fiber you get from any of those foods, but pretty sure the green bell pepper and celery are pretty high in it.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by doublepg23 on Monday February 07, 2022 @12:55AM (#30240956)
Thank you!
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by misja111 on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:27AM (#30241406)
Beans and nuts are real fiber bombs and easy to include in your diet. Also broccoli and full grain bread are good options.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by doublepg23 on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:22PM (#30251377)
I eat a decent amount of beans and broccoli.

Any full grain bread recommendations? When I worked at a super market a brand of “sprouted grain” was popular.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by jcynix on Sunday February 06, 2022 @11:49PM (#30240568)
Besides fresh vegetables, I like oatmeal / porridge, freshly cooked with skimmed milk as a breakfast, which is a good start in the day. You can combine it with fresh fruit if you like.

Or take a look at bircher muesli.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by doublepg23 on Monday February 07, 2022 @12:56AM (#30240960)
I will for sure check that out. My usual go-to breakfast is Soylent at the moment. My food tracking app (Cronometer) seems to insist it has too much fat, however.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by nemo44x on Monday February 07, 2022 @09:02AM (#30244953)
Besides diet Metamucil is great. My doctor has prescribed it to me. It’s OTC so you can get it at any drug store.

You don’t have to use it if you’re getting fiber but if you notice you had a day or series of days where it was low then drink a Metamucil. It’s great.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by doublepg23 on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:21PM (#30251362)
Yeah I’m using a phylum husk supplement now, it’s a great hack!
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by hackerfromthefu on Friday February 11, 2022 @11:03PM (#30309829)
Make sure to drink lots of water with this, as it has the possibility to glue up your intestines without enough water. To understand why, put a spoonful in a glass of water and leave it for a few hours. You really don't want your intestines glued up!
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by doublepg23 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:12PM (#30318098)
I’ve been using the Hidrate “smart water bottle” as silly as it sound the gamification really works on my brain and I love feeding more data into Apple Health.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by MattSayar on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:29PM (#30249759)
I'd also recommend some protein bars. They usually have a decent ratio of calories to protein to fiber
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by more_corn on Sunday February 06, 2022 @11:27PM (#30240423)
I’ve recently learned I have sky-high cholesterol. Doctor mentioned that eating fiber can sequester cholesterol. So along with dietary changes and exercise he recommended Psyllium husk in water. Apparently this is a great way to increase fiber intake. I bet a lot of people could improve intestinal health by increasing their fiber. Apparently we’re now learning that improving intestinal health can have effects on the mind!
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by bleuchase on Sunday February 06, 2022 @11:38PM (#30240506)
> Fiber is so incredibly important

Incredibly important to what?

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by nemo44x on Monday February 07, 2022 @09:00AM (#30244932)
I mention it in the post but it’s about bulking your stool so it moves through your colon. The colon flexes to push waste through and without bulk and hydration it’s difficult to do.

If you have frequent constipation (or even partially regular constipation) or you have to work a bit to drop a deuce then you probably need more fiber.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by cwkoss on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:03PM (#30238458)
Are insoluble and soluble fiber equivalent in this respect?

My gut (pardon the pun) says insoluble is more important, but I'm not sure if that's true.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by throwaway2037 on Sunday February 06, 2022 @08:44PM (#30239119)
Wiki says: <<Soluble fiber (fermentable fiber or prebiotic fiber) – which dissolves in water – is generally fermented in the colon into gases and physiologically active by-products, such as short-chain fatty acids produced in the colon by gut bacteria. Examples are beta-glucans (in oats, barley, and mushrooms) and raw guar gum. Psyllium – a soluble, viscous, nonfermented fiber – is a bulking fiber that retains water as it moves through the digestive system, easing defecation. Soluble fiber is generally viscous and delays gastric emptying which, in humans, can result in an extended feeling of fullness.>>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_fiber

It sounds like both soluble and insoluble fiber are important for different reasons.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by enchiridion on Sunday February 06, 2022 @05:04PM (#30237475)
Interesting result about the fiber plus probiotic. To me that’s saying that’s your body mostly knows how to maintain a micro biome if given the right building blocks.

I wonder how the immune system comes into play to actively shape the microbiome, vs our typical understanding of just “fighting bad bacteria”.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by t8e56vd4ih on Sunday February 06, 2022 @08:07PM (#30238888)
a healthy microbiome should be self sustaining. why would it be useful to eat bacteria that is supposed to be present in the gut already anyway. what does make sense though is providing a favorable environment. for that it will be useful to provide certain substances on a regular basis. so, going from microbiome to fiber might make plenty of sense even from the microbiome perspective.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by hourislate on Sunday February 06, 2022 @08:27PM (#30239022)
From the article:

>The finding, which emerged from a study of how genetics and diet affect the microbiome, “is really solid proof that this association could have major clinical importance.”

It seems genetics can play a role in some people having a healthy flora. Maybe their bodies can't convert a certain bacteria from food stuff efficiently, thus they are required to supplement.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by errcorrectcode on Sunday February 06, 2022 @11:44PM (#30240536)
Not if you genocide it with antibiotics or your parents or environment didn't have it well in the first place.

People may want to take a fecal sample before starting antibiotics to "reseed" themselves.

Also, it will take time to map and analyze essential and harmful constituent species. Perhaps there will be the equivalent of "vitamin" essential bacterial for persons of particular genetic makeups and diets.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by vbezhenar on Sunday February 06, 2022 @10:48PM (#30240107)
What about abuse of antibiotics? They are known to kill gut microbes.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by Gatsky on Sunday February 06, 2022 @11:26PM (#30240415)
There are specific situations where probiotics can be helpful - antibiotic induced diarrhoea for example, prevention of traveller's diarrhoea is another.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by baxtr on Sunday February 06, 2022 @05:40PM (#30237781)
Why only more vegetables? Isn’t fiber also in some other food?
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by dragonwriter on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:52PM (#30238782)
> Why only more vegetables? Isn’t fiber also in some other food?

Fiber is in some other foods, but not at the same ratio of fiber to calories; given that calorie surplus is also a common source of health problems in the developed world, vegetables are generally the best fiber source to add.

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by simondotau on Sunday February 06, 2022 @06:52PM (#30238382)
The amount of fibre in vegetables is enormous compared to most other foods, especially including “high in fibre” manufactured foods.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by throw_me_up on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:01PM (#30238442)
Fiber being a type of carb is also found in other high carb foods like beans, whole grains, potatoes (with skin), and popcorn. Beans are the best source of fiber by a mile in terms of quantity.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by halpert on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:12AM (#30241029)
What makes beans better than psyllium husk, which has been shown to substantially lower cholesterol?
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by throw_me_up on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:52PM (#30250063)
I don't think I said anything of the sort. Regardless, fiber is food for the microbes in the gut. Eating fiber from a diversity of sources is important as well as quantity.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by thebeastie on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:22PM (#30238595)
What kind of beans, baked beans? Fava?
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by zargon on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:59PM (#30238826)
Black beans, kidney beans, white beans, garbanzo beans, lima beans, black eyed beans.... we can go on if you like. Don't forget the huge variety of lentils as well.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by throw_me_up on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:43PM (#30238723)
Any really. 1 cup of baked is 14g and fava is 9g.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by misja111 on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:32AM (#30241452)
There are two different kinds of fibers: soluble and insoluble. The insoluble one is the most important for your gut and the one in the article. This fiber you will only find in vegetables and fruits, in particular in sturdy ones such as beans, nuts and full grains.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by wtetzner on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:09PM (#30252040)
Isn’t soluble fiber what feeds your gut bacteria?
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by misja111 on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @02:14AM (#30255725)
Your gut bacteria are already getting plenty of food, but to digest the food efficiently, they also need something to hold on to. This is the function of the insoluble fibers.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by wtetzner on Monday February 14, 2022 @12:54PM (#30335334)
Do you have a source on this? It doesn't match my understanding.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by Asooka on Sunday February 06, 2022 @07:28PM (#30238632)
I get my fiber from oatmeal. Simple plain rolled oats, no sugary additives, roast with a bit of olive oil in a pan to unlock their full nutritional potential, then cover with enough water, add salt and let simmer. Consume with appropriate additions as desired, I usually go for plain yogurt.
Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by throwaway2037 on Sunday February 06, 2022 @08:48PM (#30239163)
You wrote: <<roast with a bit of olive oil in a pan to unlock their full nutritional potential>>

I never heard of this technique before. I tried to Google about it, but I cannot find any scientific studies about it. (I found plenty of pseudo science websites touting it.) Can you point to any scientific studies about this technique?

Re:Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study by imwillofficial on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:05AM (#30241279)
Personal observation is scientific.