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Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by JCM9 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @02:54PM (#28921972)
There are a number of healthcare areas in the US that have been protected by regulation, but it’s increasingly unclear if this is good for patients, consumers, or public health at large. The increasing sentiment seems to be probably not.

Vision care is another area I’d expect to see more changes and disruption coming down the pipeline. Vision care is very important and advanced cases require special skills, but it’s also unclear why many routine checks couldn’t just be done by a family doctor.

The US requires one to see a “doctor of optometry” to get a basic single vision prescription. That industry used to make its money turning around and selling you glasses from the same office but that whole industry has been turned upside down by online retailers like Warby Parker and such. Why the US can’t follow the models followed most elsewhere in the world is unclear, but it would remove a lot of extra steps and costs in getting a basic care of glasses. Ophthalmology (medical doctors) are still very much a thing but most countries don’t have this model of needed a “prescription” from an optometrist for a basic pair of single vision specs.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by diob on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:47PM (#28922772)
There are so many cost barriers to treatments. It's definitely not for patients at this point.

For instance, I am supposed to redo my sleep apnea test every so often. But it's out of pocket? Why bother, I know mine is due to my genetics (I'm not overweight). So why am I subjected to reproving my need for a prescription?

For eyeglasses, if someone wants to continue the same prescription they can't.

It's like healthcare in the USA is a damn subscription model with yearly fees to keep getting things just prescribed (let alone treatment on top).

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dsr_ on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:01PM (#28922976)
That's particularly odd because the normal prescription for sleep apnea right now is for a self-adjusting PAP machine -- an APAP -- which has quite a range of pressures that it will automatically apply to minimize apneation events. And if you exceed the range, it will wake you up and alert you to that fact, too.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by bradknowles on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @09:18PM (#28925728)
Not from my doctors. I asked.

They said that an auto-PAP is not the first choice. A CPAP is a better choice, if it will work for you at the pressures you need. But they only work up to certain levels of pressure.

An auto-PAP will work to higher levels of pressure, but then it has to continually adjust the levels of pressure that it applies based on the resistance it senses, and that is not as good for you as constant pressure.

And there’s no way a CPAP or auto-PAP is going to wake me up at night, short of causing me to go into an apnea condition and potentially die.

Thank you, but no. I’ll stick with my CPAP.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by KennyBlanken on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:04PM (#28923014)
> For eyeglasses, if someone wants to continue the same prescription they can't.

What? You don't need a medical prescription to order glasses online. You can put in whatever numbers you want and they'll happily make them.

You'd be an idiot to do so, however, as your vision can change with age.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by gregw134 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:10PM (#28923091)
You certainly do for contacts. I have to order mine from the UK because all the US websites require prescriptions.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by comeonseriously on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:31PM (#28923378)
> You'd be an idiot to do so, however, as your vision can change with age.

Not to mention, getting an eye exam is more than just clearing up your vision. It can reveal other issues (and not just eye related! They can often see other problems, like say, cholesterol issues, for example.)

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by ericmcer on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:29PM (#28923364)
You 100% need a prescription to order prescription glasses or contact lenses online. Expired prescriptions will be rejected as well.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by comeonseriously on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:39PM (#28923459)
Contacts are regulated like drugs, so, yeah. But there is no such restriction on eyeglasses (in the U.S.). Depending on the state, they do "expire" (in FL it's 5 years), but you can still use it[0]. I have bought some beaters from Zenni and made the Rx up myself (I used to work in a lab a hundred years ago, so I can figure out how much more plus my readers need).

[0] Some places will reject it just because they don't want to deal with your complaints about a new pair not working. Other places will read what's on your current pair and match that. It really depends on who is making the glasses.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by neither_color on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @08:59PM (#28925613)
Not if you order them from the UK ;-)
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by ViViDboarder on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:48PM (#28924205)
I had to submit my (very mild) prescription for glasses to Warby Parker.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by tim333 on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @08:04AM (#28929646)
>You'd be an idiot to do so, however, as your vision can change with age.

I just use reading glasses but the desired strength can vary day to day depending on what you are doing and my eyes vary too. This can be dealt with easier by having a number of pairs of reading glasses and seeing which works best rather than doing prescription stuff. You can buy reading glasses for £1 here so I tend to get a few.

I'd still recommend going to a good optometrist occasionally in case there is something more worrying up with your eyes.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by coupdejarnac on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:08PM (#28923076)
I'm going through this right now. I know I probably need a cpap machine, so paying $300 out of pocket to rent a stupid device to record my sleep seems like a waste.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by tpmx on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:54PM (#28923634)
Well, at least you're doing it.

Crude but realistic: There is a pretty high number of (often but not always overweight) undiagnosed/untreated people suffering from obstructive sleep apnea on the roads every day. They are causing a number of avoidable accidents every day.

I think it's criminal to make CPAP as unaccessible as it is in the US.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by coupdejarnac on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:33PM (#28924047)
Not to mention lost productivity. I wonder what the dollar amount for my lost productivity over my lifetime due to poor sleep would be. Probably very high.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by bradknowles on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @09:20PM (#28925745)
My CPAP totally changed my life. I had no idea how horrible my sleep had been before.

I refuse to sleep a single night without it.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by onemoresoop on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @01:04PM (#28933110)
Did you experience Aerophagia and any weight gain when you got on the CPAP? I hear a lot of people have this issue..
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by tpmx on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:57PM (#28924298)
Yeah, I probably lost a few years of productivity myself, before I got it diagnosed.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by xmprt on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:03PM (#28922139)
One pretty big (and relatively unknown) law is that your doctor needs to give you your vision prescription so you can buy glasses elsewhere (usually for much cheaper). I think a lot of them get around this by letting you look for glasses while waiting and not telling you that this law exists.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by tristor on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:08PM (#28922233)
The bigger issue is that a prescription alone is not enough to order new glasses, you also need pupillary distance measurements in order to ensure the lenses are ground correctly. Many many optometrists will not provide these, only the legally obligated prescription. While for most people who have minimum prescriptions you can use a phone app or similar to get a rough PD, for anyone with serious prescriptions even minute variations in PD can prevent proper vision correction.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by donatj on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:43PM (#28922727)
I needed my PD to get prescription lenses for my Oculus headset and it wasn't on my prescription.

On a whim I asked at a glasses store in the mall if they could measure mine. They happily did it for free. Your milage may vary on that of course, depending on the person you interact with.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by mikeInAlaska on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:32PM (#28922563)
My local optometrist uses a $99 Enshey (check amazon) IPD measurement device. I guess if I was ordering glasses for my entire family (we do), it would probably be worth it.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by nicoburns on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @06:14PM (#28924442)
Really? Mine just eyeballed it with a ruler!
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by JCM9 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:10PM (#28922254)
If an industry’s strategy to keep itself alive is keeping the distance between your eyes a closely protected secret… the end appears near.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by FemmeAndroid on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:30PM (#28922525)
This happened to my wife just last month. I was very frustrated when I saw that she hadn't received a PD, but I didn't realize that this is a frequent and intentional decision at this point. Extremely frustrating.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by radicaldreamer on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:12PM (#28923133)
I asked about 3 times for a PD measurement at my last exam and they distracted me and failed to put it on the prescription or measure it... didn't realize this was probably intentional
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by bluGill on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:24PM (#28923952)
Last time I got glasses I bought from them, and asked about swim goggles - which they don't carry. They then happily wrote my PD on a paper for me to use when buying swim goggles - or anything else. (too bad I lost the paper since...)
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dsr_ on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:03PM (#28922993)
On the other hand, your PD should not change once you are an adult, outside of major traumatic events.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by otabdeveloper4 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:42PM (#28922706)
I'm not in the US; when I got my latest pair of glasses they just used a ruler. It works fine.

(Yes, I'm exactly one of those people sensitive to "minute variations".)

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by handrous on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:13PM (#28923154)
I used the "ruler on a mirror, open one eye, center it on the end of the ruler, close it and open the other eye, mark where the center is on the ruler, then read the measurement (in mm)" method. Did it a few times to be sure, exact same results every time, just have to keep your head still and geometry does the work for you. Glasses made using that measurement have been entirely fine, no problems.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by adolph on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:46PM (#28923543)
Worked for me too. Had my PD measured afterwards and device value was same as mirror method.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by conductr on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @01:46AM (#28927196)
Just ask for the PD on the prescription, they generally don’t mind but also won’t offer. It makes things awkward if they refuse. I ask in the exam room.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by etaioinshrdlu on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:17PM (#28922363)
I've probably been to 5 optometrists over the years and they all provided PD.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by vburg on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:45PM (#28922749)
They made me sign a waiver then gave me the wrong measurements.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by elliekelly on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:48PM (#28922803)
The law specifies they have to give you the paper prescription (for no extra charge beyond the cost of the exam) even if you don’t ask for it. There’s no getting around it. Either they give you the prescription after your exam or they’re not compliant with the law. Consumer ignorance or apathy isn’t a valid defense.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by kwiens on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:38PM (#28922635)
You're absolutely correct that this has had a huge impact. This is actually the FTC's eyeglass rule and not a separate law, something that I didn't know until they started getting involved with Right to Repair.

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules/rulemaking-regulatory-...

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dzhiurgis on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:10PM (#28923106)
Life pro hack - look out for "free eye tests" - get the prescription and walk out without a purchase. Something like 90% of market is captured by Luxotica hence 4x price when compared with online.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by tyingq on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:08PM (#28922225)
They also get around it by first handing you a prescription that doesn't have your pupillary distance noted. It's such a passive-aggressive bullshit move.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by gumby on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:24PM (#28922456)
They often leave off the IPD (distance between your pupils) to make the prescription useless (you can measure the distance yourself).
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by nomel on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:33PM (#28922571)
You would think that someone would have a smartphone app for this.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by lisper on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @02:59PM (#28922069)
> Why the US can’t follow the models followed most elsewhere in the world is unclear

To the contrary, it is very clear: regulatory capture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by BurningFrog on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:10PM (#28924878)
Still unclear why Regulatory Capture only happens in the US?
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by lisper on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:28PM (#28925019)
It happens outside the U.S. as well, but the U.S. has a particularly weak form of democracy which makes it more prone to regulatory capture. In particular, money is a more powerful policial level in the U.S. than in most other democracies, and that creates a positive feedback loop that tends to encourage and reinforce regulatory capture (you use RC to make money, which you then turn around and use to pursue more RC in order to make more money...)
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by ddingus on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @09:19PM (#28925737)
We allow bribes.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by JCM9 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:02PM (#28922129)
Yes… didn’t know what the technical term was but that’s it
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by colordrops on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:28PM (#28922504)
In china you can get prescription lenses at a local market without any involvement of a medical professional, at extremely cheap cost. There isn't much evidence that this is causing negative medical outcomes.

On the flip side it used to be very easy to get antibiotics without a prescription there. I'd be surprised if this is still the case.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dsizzle on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:07PM (#28922205)
Not sure why vision checks require a doctor at all. In the end, they're just relying on your responses anyway: "What's better: A or B"? In fact, I'd go further and say it doesn't even require another person.

I, for one, am glad to see this bill.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by tryptophan on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:16PM (#28922360)
>require a doctor

Just a note, but optometrists are "doctors" (because optometry is a doctoral degree), but not doctors in the colloquial sense, ie people with MDs who work in hospitals.

Ophthalmologists are the MDs that specialize in eye disease, and are the ones that treat infection and do surgery.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by leguminous on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:45PM (#28924180)
Optometrists treat infection and disease, and can work in hospitals as well. My fiancée is an optometrist who did her residency in a hospital and has worked in hospital systems.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by mbg721 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:11PM (#28922277)
Vision checks have also changed a lot in the last five years or so. I have a pretty strong prescription and always used to do rounds of reading charts and "A or B", and now there's a machine that scans my eyes and gets it very close to right, with an adjustment or two at the end.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dr_dshiv on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:17PM (#28922370)
12 years ago, I walked into a second hand eye glasses shop in India and they had one of these machines. It was amazingly effective. I felt duped by all the optometrist appointments asking me about A or B.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by fn-mote on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:35PM (#28924073)
To me, the tradeoff of an expensive modern machine vs an cheaper iterative process seems logical. I think it's funny that a second hand shop has the fancy equipment... but they must know it sells glasses more effectively.

Here, the machine results are used as a starting point, validated by A/B but I don't know if the human part is effective or just theater.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dr_dshiv on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:46PM (#28924188)
Well, assuming the optometrist charges around $50 per hour, after 10 patients it would pay for itself. I assume the machine is simply cheaper, which is why it was used.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by mixmastamyk on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:25PM (#28922471)
Duped, because they are doing it the old-fashioned way?
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dr_dshiv on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:53PM (#28922858)
Because they are making theater to justify their cost.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by comeonseriously on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:43PM (#28923503)
Did the machine tell you if anything else was wrong with your eyes? Could it?
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dr_dshiv on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:44PM (#28924171)
It could determine my index accurately. It couldn’t tell if I had symptomless eye cancer, however.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by jtwaleson on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:53PM (#28922864)
Eye exams are not easy or one size fits all. The machine does objective refraction, which is a different and more error prone method than subjective refraction. Also for multifocals you'll need a more tailored prescription. There's definitely progress in autorefractors though!
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by forbiddenvoid on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:21PM (#28922428)
This machine is not new. I remember it being used to approximate my prescription when I joined the US Army almost 20 years ago.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by balls187 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:47PM (#28923555)
They can now check ocular pressure without the puff!
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by ro_bit on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:57PM (#28923667)
That's amazing! The puff is soooo uncomfortable! Is the technology to do this widespread?
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by balls187 on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @01:10AM (#28926976)
It looks like it is becoming more common place.

iCare Tonometer

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by eggsmediumrare on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:30PM (#28925032)
That's like saying a family doctor will just ask you if you're feeling alright. I know optoms who have found parasites, diabetes, cancer... The complete disregard for an entire field of medicine in this thread is astounding...

*Edit, saw your comment about not referring to the entire checkup.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by falcolas on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:34PM (#28923412)
FWIW, a checkup for me is 1 part refraction, one part retinal inspection, one part corneal inspection, and one part automated refraction/pressure checks.

Only one of those parts can be done without a doctor or highly specialized equipment.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dsizzle on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:44PM (#28923511)
Right, I was only talking about that 1 part. (Wasn't suggesting there's no use for optometrists!)
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by falcolas on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:02PM (#28923724)
I guess I'm a bit confused then - if it's part and parcel of a regular checkup, what's the value of breaking the refraction out into a wholly separate activity?
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dsizzle on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:16PM (#28923865)
Your vision could change faster than however often you need your cornea examined or whatever. Or someone may not be able to afford a doctor's visit but know they need glasses (ignoring the question of whether it's right for people to not be able to afford an eye doctor's visit).

Extending your logic to other areas would end up with absurdities like needing a doctor to measure your waist size before you can buy clothes. "You should visit your doctor regularly anyway, what's the value of allowing people to buy pants without a prescription?"

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by falcolas on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:57PM (#28925240)
The impact of an improper prescription - headaches, eyestrain, creating lazy eyes - are far worse than buying pants which are too big.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dsizzle on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @09:43PM (#28925872)
You're just as likely to get the wrong prescription with an optometrist -- they're relying on your self-report after all -- except it's harder to correct, because you need to go and make another doctor appointment to have it corrected (vs using the machine again).

Also, if someone feels they would get better vision correction working with a trained professional, I'm fine with that. I only object to _requiring_ a doctor's prescription to get glasses.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by KennyBlanken on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:08PM (#28923060)
Evaluating someone's eye for glasses can be done entirely by machine as can manufacturing the glasses themselves. I do not understand why we still force people to spend 5-10 minutes sitting in a chair in a dark room going "better....no...worse...better..."
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by comeonseriously on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:41PM (#28923479)
Because an eye exam isn't just about the final prescription. It's about whole eye health (retina health, cancer, cholesterol, diabetes, etc).
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by russdill on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @12:47AM (#28926860)
Right, but then the way to do that should have nothing to do with corrective lenses and requiring them shouldn't be an artificial barrier to getting corrective lenses.

If it's important, then it's important for everyone.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by heavyset_go on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @08:42PM (#28925522)
This is important. Eye exams are not just the part where they have you look at letters on the wall in the dark.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by asciimov on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:18PM (#28923212)
The machines can't gauge for personal preference. Many people don't like their vision right at 20/20. I personally like mine closer to 20/15.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by degrews on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @10:36AM (#28931134)
What? Doesn't 20/20, 20/15 etc. refer to visual acuity (how much detail you can see from a certain distance)? Are there people who prefer anything but the highest possible visual acuity?
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by joe5150 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:23PM (#28923938)
This I think has a lot to do with individual experiences with optometrists. I went to probably half a dozen optometrists since adolescence before I happened to end up with one who actually made it clear there's a degree of subjectivity with an eyeglass prescription.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by m463 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:45PM (#28922754)
I missed a very critical vision deficiency with my child because I only did cursory vision checks when growing up.

I think this influenced the ability to see characters which greatly impacted reading ability.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by skybrian on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:06PM (#28922190)
Getting new glasses is different from screening for eye diseases, though it's typically done at the same time. I doubt a GP would have the special equipment they use for screening? It's pretty specialized.

Apparently the need for this gets more important as you get older:

https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/health-wellness/health-...

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by JCM9 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:19PM (#28922397)
Many optometrists don’t do much more than use a hand held scope to look into your eyes. I’d imagine most GPs either have that on hand already or could get it easily. It’s not like you need an MRI machine in the office to do an eye exam.

Yes some office have fancier equipment, but here it’s unclear if that’s actually better for patients and public health or just a way to bill more. Doing a basic exam and then referring those to true specialists is generally the model followed by nearly everything else in healthcare.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by jjeaff on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:25PM (#28922476)
I have been to maybe a half dozen different optometrists over the last 25 years and they have always used several expensive looking machines to screen for eye disease. Most frequently a machine that uses a puff of air to measure the pressure in your eye and more recently, a machine with a bright light that gets detailed imagery of the vascular structure on the back of your eye.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by JCM9 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:34PM (#28922580)
Yes, although that test is automated and typically done by a technician not an optometrist. You can train someone to use one of these machines in a few hours. If this was a key test no reason we couldn’t just put one in every GP office and have eye pressure checked during an annual checkup.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by RHSeeger on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:45PM (#28923521)
Those machines cost money and require some amount of training to use. Having them in an office that specializes in using them makes sense. Having your GP have every type of machine for every types of checkup (eyes, ears, CAT, MRI, etc... all things that _could_ be at the GP, but aren't) would not be cost efficient.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by InvertedRhodium on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:52PM (#28922854)
> annual checkup

We're supposed to go EVERY YEAR?

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by throwawayboise on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:19PM (#28923235)
LOL I know. I haven't been for a "checkup" in close to 30 years.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by mschuster91 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:40PM (#28924137)
> but it’s also unclear why many routine checks couldn’t just be done by a family doctor

Ordinary GPs aren't experts and the equipment for doing vision checks is expensive and consumes space.

IMO, medical care should be completely re-organized. Get rid of GPs as a profession (outside of cruise ships and the military) and GP practices entirely. Instead, have community clinics for everyday medical needs spread out over the country that have a team of skilled nurses for triage with a number of subject-expert doctors at the second level, and large/university clinics for everything the community clinics can't deal with (urgent/trauma care, oncology).

That would also shorten training times and effort for new doctors by a significant degree - e.g. in Germany, an ophtalmologist requires a full medical degree (over six years, not counting waiting times because medical study places are short in supply) followed by five years of specialized training. Realistically, training any expert doctor now takes at least twelve to fifteen years... and that's frankly absurd, and part of why medical costs are so sky-rocketing. Not many students make the ridiculously high entry requirements, many don't survive that time (and sometimes literally - suicide rates among medical students are way above average!), and those who have their MD are left with fifteen years worth of student debt which means they have to charge extraordinary hourly rates simply to be able to pay back the loans.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by ausername42027 on Friday October 22, 2021 @02:57PM (#28961154)
How do the nurses know where to send the triage without a broad medical education? This has been tried and fails, and when it is fails it is not pretty. Nurses will just refer their patients to 2-3 specialists in a shotgun approach, while at the same time missing "can't miss" diagnoses that never get a referral.

Medicine is not tech support with tier levels :( I would stick to talking about things you know, because medicine is not one of them.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by JCM9 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:43PM (#28922728)
Vaccine administration is another area that has seen / is seeing broad deregulation. In many states one needed a medical doctor to “prescribe” a flu shot or other vaccine. Now many states have moved to allow such “prescriptions” to be written by pharmacists and issued right there on the spot in a pharmacy.

Some physician groups fought that tooth and nail… not because there was any real evidence of people dropping dead from mis-prescribed vaccines but because it was a good stream of easy revenue for their office billing insurers for giving the shot. This change was much better for consumers and for public health overall by making vaccines more readily accessible.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by jollybean on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:55PM (#28925225)
"it’s also unclear why many routine checks couldn’t just be done by a family doctor."

Even though it's probably not that complicated, it's probably beyond the scope of a regular doctor to do proper checks - and - it's probably more expensive than getting your eyes checked by an optometrist, which is usually pretty cheap.

In fact, the optometrist model i.e. regulated specialization for something that we don't need very expensive doctors for, is probably a good model for hearing. If there's something more complicated, then they refer you to the ophthalmologist etc..

We should be trying to do this with everything i.e. get people into 3 year specialization programs which make basic health things affordable, and leave more complex cases to MDs.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by balls187 on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:46PM (#28923532)
> The US requires one to see a “doctor of optometry” to get a basic single vision prescription.

You can take virtual eye exams, which are reviewed by doctors to issue a prescription.

The real issue isn't the basic care of glasses, instead it's the screening of your eye health.

When you go to Urgent Care, say for a laceration, they do a quick work up, including taking your temp, blood pressure, blood o2, weight and height.

Having your eyes checked out in person with a comprehensive eye exam annually is a good habit. And tying it renewing an Rx for Contacts / Glasses just makes it easier to do.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by softveda on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @11:16PM (#28926355)
In Australia you need to go to an Optometrist who is not a doctor, they can't prescribe medicines. There are few independent Optoms most are employed by spectacles chains nowadays. They also do retinal scan, check for glaucoma etc. No one pays for Optoms. The government pays for one free eye checkup every 2 years (used to be 1 year). The glasses and frames you have to pay. Ophthalmologists are specialists for eye diseases and needs to be referred by either GP or Optom and costs an arm and a leg. My last visit was $400+
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by IgorPartola on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:49PM (#28923567)
I am constantly reminded that the word “to disrupt” should be in all instances replaced with “to fuck up”.
Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by WillPostForFood on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:33PM (#28923396)
There are a number of healthcare areas in the US that have been protected by regulation

Really, isn’t it all areas?

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by conductr on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @02:16AM (#28927356)
> That industry used to make its money turning around and selling you glasses from the same office but that whole industry has been turned upside down by online retailers like Warby Parker and such

This is not really the case. Online, warby Parker, etc. have built scale but the traditional retail still makes a significant portion of their profits here. And it’s a healthy business by most standards. The staff and employed OD are typically compensated heavily through variable compensation. The primary industry metric is “capture rate”, the percentage of people that buy eye wear after the exam. If I recall correctly it’s about 65-70%. From an incentive perspective, the doctors and staff are salespeople through and through.

Like all segments of healthcare, it has really started to consolidate. The independents/regional brands operating now will likely sell to PE roll up play when the foundering doctor retires. PE will exit to conglomerates. Most of these are boomer’s and this form of consolidation is well under way. The already high margins can easily be improved by centralizing back office, etc.

The vertical integration in the industry is insane. Luxottica for example leads retail, frame manufacturing, lens fabrication (laboratory), and owns the #2 insurance provider (of 2 main players). They have such power they can and do “force” independent retailers to use their POS software.

Warby Parker has some hipness and definitely grew quickly. But, they hardly put a dent in the market. There may be some evidence that they expanded it, as happens with fashion. They would be more akin to Blue Nile in the jewelry space. Independent jewelers still dominate that market.

Re:The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without... by dboreham on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:20PM (#28922416)
I find Costco to be a reasonable workaround.