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Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by sharkweek on Monday October 11, 2021 @02:43PM (#28831479)
I live in Seattle and thus a notable percentage of my social circle works at Amazon.

The folks I know who work there were almost entirely all prepared to quit if the company forced their initial "everyone back in the office" requirement, especially in this current job market.

It feels rare to see Amazon ever make a change to such a publicly stated policy like this, I can only imagine that the groundswell of feedback from employees was quite startling in how much of a problem their retention would be with such a hard rule.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by cle on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:16PM (#28831886)
Many employees voted with their feet. From the outside it seems like Amazon has already suffered significant brain drain, they are likely trying to stop the bleeding at this point. In addition to their poor reputation as an employer, seems like they've backed themselves into a corner.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by anonporridge on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:00PM (#28833026)
As a former Amazonian, I'm giddy to see their chickens come home to roost.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by 1270018080 on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:32PM (#28832715)
With stack ranking, many engineers blacklisting Amazon, and the sheer size of their engineering department, they must be close to literally running out of engineers to hire in America, right? At least if they stuck to in person work and limited their hiring pool geographically.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by barry-cotter on Monday October 11, 2021 @07:00PM (#28834078)
If they can turn someone into a backend engineer in nine months they can hire forever even with a lot of turnover.

> Lambda School to Launch New Backend Engineering Program, Jointly Developed with Amazon

https://lambdaschool.com/the-commons/lambda-school-launches-...

> Inspiration for the new backend program came from Amazon Technical Academy, which trains current, non-technical Amazon employees for software development engineering roles within the company. Amazon Technical Academy’s curriculum is based on the critical knowledge, skills, and attributes required to succeed as a software development engineer at Amazon, which Lambda’s program will cover in their entirety. Amazon Technical Academy is part of Amazon’s commitment to upskill 100,000 of its own employees by 2025.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by bluedino on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:41PM (#28832804)
They can hire new grads every year

Getting expensive to move to Seattle though

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by whatshisface on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:23PM (#28833263)
Running a giant company with nothing but new grads is really asking for every project management problem ever discovered.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by VRay on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:40PM (#28833428)
Nah, all the new grads will be able to balance a red-black tree on a whiteboard in seconds, so they should be able to easily handle all other engineering tasks
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by aiisjustanif on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @10:34AM (#28840195)
Day 1. Searches, “what is all this docker and kubernetes stuff?”
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by adolph on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:52PM (#28833521)
Every problem is a solution in the waiting. Imagine a "every project management problem ever" as a service for enterprise customers of AWS. Every year there could be an almanac of recently discovered screwups. Amazon Studios would have a long run reality TV series.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by dilyevsky on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:26PM (#28835425)
Big co manager api from aws sounds fantastic! You send promo request, they send that less than stellar feedback from 360 review three years ago and your “consistently exceeds (needs more impact)” response.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by shepherdjerred on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @12:59AM (#28836253)
It's one of the reasons I left. A team full of new grads with nobody to properly teach them. Poor designs are drafted and implemented leading to unmaintainable systems.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by sails on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @03:29AM (#28837026)
Let alone the project management problems, what about the "Worst Case" from yesterday.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28825009

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by drdeadringer on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @10:44AM (#28840344)
> is really asking for every project management problem ever discovered

"Oh but they can just google the solution. Welcome aboard."

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Jyaif on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:55PM (#28832963)
I know that they are hiring across the world for their Vancouver office.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by __turbobrew__ on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:11PM (#28835311)
I basically get weekly recruiting emails from the Vancouver office (I work in Vancouver) but I tell them that I’m not doing the online assessment. Surprisingly the recruiters always go silent shortly after. I am a mid level Senior engineer and Amazon can pound sand if they think I’m going to take their dumb online test without any commitment from them whatsoever.

Amazon fails to understand that it is currently a worker’s market in software engineering so they are the ones who have to convince engineers to work there.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by cableshaft on Monday October 11, 2021 @11:32PM (#28835772)
The assessment is ridiculous time commitment anyway. You have to set aside a 2.5 hour block of uninterrupted time to do it, and from what I hear it's pretty brutal anyway.

I get pinged by Amazon recruiters almost every week right now, and once I discovered the assessment was 2.5 hours during my last job search, I had trouble finding the time and energy to fit it in amongst all the other job search requirements I had to do.

Ended up getting so far along the process with 6 other companies that I just didn't bother to take it. Still ended up with a job offer with a 60% bump in pay and what seems like a better environment than Amazon would have been, without any threats to force me back into the office or needing to relocate.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by MattGaiser on Monday October 11, 2021 @07:08PM (#28834129)
At least according to Levels, the Vancouver office pay sucks.

Lots of equivalent paying companies in Canada now, yet alone USA.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by katbyte on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:25PM (#28835415)
I’m in Vancouver and get multiple recruiters contacting from Amazon weekly it seems? I’ve engaged a couple times out of curiosity and their offers were always hilariously low.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Tiktaalik on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:45PM (#28835528)
Extra inappropriate when one considers the insanely mad cost of housing in Vancouver.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by sgerenser on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @08:12AM (#28838751)
Back during the HQ2 circus, wasn’t Vancouver the city that tried to pitch themselves to Amazon that “we have talent like Seattle, but our average software engineer pay is much lower!”?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Tiktaalik on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @11:49AM (#28841206)
This has always been an advantage of setting up shop in Canada, though ideally this leans more on the "Canadian dollar is cheaper" aspect than the "we simply underpay everyone" aspect.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by katbyte on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:48PM (#28835544)
One of the highest three COL cities in North America!
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by MattGaiser on Monday October 11, 2021 @11:19PM (#28835706)
Vancouver has some of the lowest (listed, admittedly) incomes in Canada too.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by dangerwill on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:01PM (#28833037)
Yep can confirm, got multiple Amazon Vancouver specific recruiters in my inbox last month, and I'm in Ireland
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by plebianRube on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:12PM (#28833150)
I replied back to one of these and explained that due to their anti-union actions, and they way they treat employees, I would never be interested in working there, no matter the salary. I thankfully have never received any more of their spam.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by aerosmile on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:39PM (#28833890)
To be fair, very few tech companies would hire someone who starts off by expressing their support for unionization. It's certainly a good "unsubscribe" tactic. For example, if you want to get rid of unwanted Linkedin outreach, just put into your title "Go unions!"
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by plebianRube on Monday October 11, 2021 @09:24PM (#28834992)
Being against anti-union tactics involving privacy and surveillance issues is not the same as being pro union.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by aerosmile on Monday October 11, 2021 @11:17PM (#28835696)
Employers won't hold it against you for being against tactics that involve privacy and surveillance issues in general (eg: "I wouldn't want to work at a place that spies on every single Slack message I send to coworkers"), because they give you the benefit of doubt that from their bottom line perspective you will be a net-positive contributor. The minute you include the word U-N-I-O... (eg: I wouldn't want to work at a place that spies on unionization efforts), that benefit of doubt is lost, and now everyone is wondering why that topic is on your mind.

None of this is a reflection of the value of unions from the employees' perspective. But it's important to realize that unions are one of the instances where the employees' and employers' interests are not aligned. So, emailing a recruiter and mentioning unions has only one possible outcome - none.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by CRConrad on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:15PM (#28844530)
God, America is weird.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by CamperBob2 on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:10PM (#28833672)
Sounds like you both dodged a bullet.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Mountain_Skies on Monday October 11, 2021 @08:23PM (#28834608)
I'm in the US and Amazon's Dublin office was trying to recruit me last year. I've turned down invitations to interview at Amazon about every other year throughout my career but this was the first time I'd been contacted by an overseas location. Their message even acknowledged that it would be a big move especially with the various travel restrictions in place at the time but they wanted me to interview anyway. Seems like they're running out of people everywhere and poaching each other's local labor markets.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by dangerwill on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @03:45AM (#28837139)
That is really interesting, it does seem odd that they seem to be trying to hire cross continent all of a sudden
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by top_kekeroni_m8 on Thursday October 14, 2021 @08:29AM (#28863364)
Same here, I have been contacted multiple times for Amazon Vancouver positions. I am from Slovenia and they told me they would be glad to help me out with the overseas move and sponsor the Visa..
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by spoonjim on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:29PM (#28833325)
This is where news and reality diverge
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by natalyarostova on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:08PM (#28833119)
They stopped being able to hire seniors easily. So I quit, because working with 8 people 1 year out of college, and myself with 7 years exp, was awful.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by hbosch on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:27PM (#28833312)
In my opinion, "bar raisers" often impede the hiring of candidates who could be good senior level employees.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by natalyarostova on Monday October 11, 2021 @09:40PM (#28835106)
After doing 5 years of interviews, I think part of the issue is Amazon doesn’t really do onboarding, so everyone is scared of making an L6 offer, because the new hire is expected to perform equal to an L6 who has already been at Amazon for years, on day 1.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by backoncemore on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:31PM (#28833343)
Not to mention the absolutely ridiculous amount of grilling over leadership principles.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by soylentnewsorg on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:40PM (#28833906)
I interviewed w/ Amazon - they contacted me during the pandemic and I though what the hey, ignore the worst reviews of any company on glassdoor, let's see what they're all about.

The interview was, and I hate to use this word, followed a template clearly put together by an MBA who went into middle management without any work experience, The two people to whom I talked showed the enthusiasm of a dead wet beaver while asking the questions. This was for a storage position that I've been doing for 20+ years at some of the biggest accounts all over the planet.

During the 2 hours, I got asked two very basic questions. Then a bunch of weird generic scenarios - what have you done that fits this scenario and how did you handle it.

About half way through the second interview I decided there's not enough money in the world, and decided to have fun with it. I tells ya what - I made up some of the most ridiculous obviously fake <and then vanilla ice walked into the meeting> stories ever. They sent me a rejection letter, just to ask me to interview for a similar position two months later. I asked their recruiter to read their employee reviews and only contact me again if they offer 7 figures. Been a year now - nothing. Maybe they got the hint.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by belval on Monday October 11, 2021 @09:16PM (#28834925)
For what it's worth, the Amazon interview experience is modelled that way for fairness. We are pretty much told that we can't deviate too much from the script because by doing so we might advantage a candidate over another. There are exception with more senior employees that tend to disregard that advice but overall it's pretty well followed.

Sorry about your bad experience though.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by soylentnewsorg on Monday October 11, 2021 @11:13PM (#28835682)
Not complaining about the use of a common script for all interviews. A good script would have many avenues where you can ask the person about his specific resume. I've done a lot of emc/netapp/pure storage as an example, but only xiv from ibm. the way amazon handles this is to not ask a single question about storage, for a storage role. this is the wrong way.

well, let me correct myself. for this sr position in storage, i was asked one question about storage. "what is the difference between object storage and file storage."

imagine you are interviewing to work as a mathematician. a sr level one, you walk in, and the ask you no math questions, except "what is the difference between multiplication and derivatives."

here is the issue i take with this completely undeveloped script: it tells you zero about someone's technical skills or abilities. this means the hiring criteria, for highly technical roles, might as well be what color car I drive. if this is what leadership uses to determine who is good during an interview, they're going to have useless, illogical, and bogus criteria for performance. and this means the job will be frustrating and will wear me out. oh look - that's what all the tech employees are saying about amazon on glassdoor.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by __bjoernd on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:41PM (#28844803)
I can tell you that when training interviewers, Amazon makes it very clear that candidate experience is the most important thing about the interview. Stoically asking questions without a wink of emotion certainly does not fit that. :(
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by belval on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @09:27AM (#28839372)
Oh to be clear I don't think your experience was terrible only because of the script. It's not like they tell you to be cold and unpleasant so I'd put some fault on your interviewer as well.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by tdeck on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:37PM (#28835489)
One option might be to add this explanation to the script so the candidate understands why the process seems so alienating.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Consultant32452 on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @08:10AM (#28838733)
People really undervalue self-narration. It works so well in many areas of life. I narrate with my kids, "I'm parenting you this way to get X outcome." Here's my canned start to every interview:

"This interview has a simple three step format. There's no gotchas or narrow trivia here. I'll start by asking you technical questions about the work you say you did until I've gotten the information I need about that. Then there will be a few social questions. Lastly, I'll open it up for you to ask me anything you want about working here."

Doing this seems to help the people with social anxiety and/or autism. Setting specific concrete expectations right up front and then sticking to it really comforts people.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by darkwater on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:19PM (#28842376)
This is really good advice, thanks!
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by gvurrdon on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:17AM (#28837328)
> Then a bunch of weird generic scenarios - what have you done that fits this scenario and how did you handle it.

That part was particularly frustrating; often I couldn't think of anything relevant to the specific wording. At least you got a rejection letter, though. Multiple interviews over >1 day and I had to log in to the Amazon Jobs account to see my application's status had changed to "no longer under consideration".

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by WorldMaker on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:56PM (#28842840)
It's amazing right now how in this market so many companies are simply ghosting on rejections. They seem so desperate in their recruiting but then can't bother to at least call with a rejection out of the usual courtesy that used to be a standard part of the process?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by gvurrdon on Thursday October 14, 2021 @07:42AM (#28862987)
Strange, indeed. A "sorry, no thanks, good luck elsewhere" email would have been fine. Feedback would have been very useful but I suspect they'd be reluctant to offer any.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by WorldMaker on Thursday October 14, 2021 @01:30PM (#28867295)
Yes, I anecdotally have had two different recruiters at different companies on the phone before interviews tell me they definitely would follow up after the interviews with feedback and in one case I got a form letter email and no response to a reply email I made (asking about that feedback they had "definitely" promised me) and the other time no response at all but checking their portal and showing the thing was closed (again after promising me they always give feedback). It's so very weird and doesn't give me a lot of confidence right now that recruiters aren't just wasting my time.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by DoreenMichele on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:53PM (#28832303)
It feels rare to see Amazon ever make a change to such a publicly stated policy like this...

Jeff Bezos recently stepped down as CEO. Google tells me that happened July 5th of this year, a few months ago.

He founded the company. It's essentially under new management for the first time ever.

I don't think you can infer much from this incident. There are too many unusual factors at play and we don't have an established track record for what the "new normal" (post Bezos) will be for Amazon.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by picardo on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:01PM (#28832379)
Jeff was still with the company when the last version of the policy was announced, i.e. "3 days from office, 2 days from home." It was probably the head of HR who came up with it.

Jeff accepted it like, "Oh well." You could tell he couldn't care less.

But Andy Jassy looked ashen. I think his becoming CEO was the reason Amazon changed course. If Jeff had stayed, he would have let HR decide the policy for the entire company, and it would have been disastrous for AWS.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by mathverse on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:07PM (#28832439)
It is amazing that some americans can be so picky to give up their many hundred thousand/per year jobs because they dont want to go to the office.

I am just envious at how developed your tech scene is.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Someone1234 on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:26PM (#28832660)
They aren't given up anything. They can walk into multiple other jobs with similar pay and benefits, and that's the problem Amazon has.

It isn't being picky, it is employees having actual worth and choice. Employees can "pick" the pay, conditions, and benefits that suite them best: In this case moving out of one of the highest housing cost areas in the country.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by oblio on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:50PM (#28833997)
I think you misread his comment. He's saying that what you're describing is a privilege developers in many other countries don't enjoy.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by andreilys on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:18PM (#28832562)
It’s not about being picky, it’s about knowing your worth. If an employer chooses a ham-fisted approach of forcing everyone to work out of the office, then they will have to pay the consequences of their top talent leaving for companies that are more flexible (and often pay the same or more)
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by noir_lord on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:24PM (#28832631)
Wasn't amazon but this is exactly what happened, they mandated "back to the office, no exceptions" last summer, I put my notice in and went to work for a company that was 100% remote, within a year I got promoted from lead upwards.

Turns out sometimes not only is the grass greener but it's much better tasting as well.

Ironically the place I left announced a "developers can work from home forever" policy a couple of months ago (after they'd lost 7 out of 9 senior devs off their 9 teams - the attrition rate wasn't much lower for non-seniors).

They are so fucked it's not even funny - literally decades of accumulated domain/business knowledge walked out the door.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by abawany on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:43PM (#28833459)
The social contract is different here. You focus on the salary but most employees are considered fungible here by most employers with 'industry standard' as a synonym for 'sucks about as much as what we consider our competitors'. Due to the unique circumstances, employees in some industries finally have some ability to try to better their lot so it would be irrational of them to not avail themselves of likely a once-in-many-lifetimes opportunity before the iron fist of our corporate masters comes crashing down upon our spines again. Yes, I am old and cynical - how did you know :) ?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by acchow on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:01PM (#28833038)
They aren’t giving up anything. They’ll just switch to working at another company offering them hundreds of thousands. Those jobs are plentiful.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by haswell on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:09PM (#28833124)
The way I read the parent comment, it's not that people are "giving up" the ability to make hundreds of thousands, but rather they're able to give up their role at a company paying that much because the market allows them to make that money elsewhere.

This is not possible everywhere.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by munificent on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:16PM (#28832541)
The flip side is that many feel an intense pressure to do whatever it takes to get the most lucrative job they can find because the US has much less of a social safety net than many European countries.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ghaff on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:41PM (#28833436)
Once you get beyond a certain threshold that's not really true. Or it's a story they tell themselves because they care more about money than other considerations.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by oblio on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:51PM (#28834014)
Have you ever had a 1 month long holiday? Not sabbatical, just regular PTO.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ghaff on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:57PM (#28834061)
Yes, multiple times--most recently a few years ago was close to that just pre-pandemic. Another probably 4x in the 3 week to 4 week range in previous job. Pretty standard tech industry jobs. More recently have had many other multi-week holidays that were a combination of tech events and pure PTO.

I realize a fair number of people can't do that or, commonly in my experience, feel that they can't do that but it's not actually impossible if that's what you prioritize.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by un_montagnard on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:21PM (#28833240)
It is amazing that some Americans are so picky about going to the office instead of actual vacations with all your corporate access disabled.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by lotsofpulp on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:47PM (#28833486)
These types of jobs have 4+ weeks of vacation anyway.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by drunkpotato on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:40PM (#28833902)
Has this changed recently? My offer from AWS came with 2 weeks of vacation, non-negotiable, and was part of why I rejected it.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by lotsofpulp on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:42PM (#28833924)
Wow, that is very poor. I don’t know many Amazon people though, but I have read they are stingy. Although, I assumed 3 weeks of vacation was a minimum for white collar employees, especially in finance/law/engineering. I got 3 weeks when I came out of college in mid 2000s.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by culpable_pickle on Monday October 11, 2021 @08:01PM (#28834488)
It grows up to a maximum of 4 weeks with seniority
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by dudul on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:12PM (#28832491)
Nothing to do with being picky. It's just about people having different priorities.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by 1270018080 on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:33PM (#28832731)
Why are you asserting people are giving up anything? I got a pay raise when I quit my in office job.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Sohcahtoa82 on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:09PM (#28833121)
Do you really mean "give up" here? You're strongly implying that you're not in America, so there's a decent chance English is not your first language, so maybe you don't mean "give up" in the way it usually means in English.

To be explicit, there's nothing being sacrificed. People leaving their jobs because they don't want to go to an office are finding new jobs that pay the same amount or even more. They're not giving up anything.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by backoncemore on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:37PM (#28833403)
American programmers are mercenaries, capitalist minded workers, that have access to a digital hive mind that not many other professions can fully access. We hold a lot more power than I think we realize.

Europeans work to live. Americas live to work.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by VRay on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:43PM (#28833462)
Probably worth mentioning that you aren’t safe if you hide out in some low-paying European job. Sooner or later the US/Chinese platform companies are going to come and eat your boss’ lunch

So you may as well come over and get a share of the spoils

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by mathverse on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:46PM (#28844861)
Easier said than done...
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ikiris on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:28PM (#28832680)
You should stop being a crab in a bucket, and go try to improve your own situation instead of being unhappy that others have done so in their own lives.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by jorblumesea on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:14PM (#28831859)
The other thing to add on is that Amazon is having a hard time recruiting, at least anecdotally from friends who work there. Between their reputation as a company and hot job market, filling some senior level eng roles has become near impossible.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by sharkweek on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:40PM (#28832135)
I have shared this story on here before, but my first "real interview" out of college was at Amazon and to this day it is still one of the worst experiences of my career.

The recruiter was great, super nice, got me all organized for a full-day loop. They gave me some things to prepare, so I did. Admittedly, I was under-qualified for the job as a fresh grad but was assured that'd be fine.

Still, the entire team made it abundantly clear how much I was apparently wasting their time even being in the room with each of them as they took turns throughout the day talking to me.

Felt so unbelievably toxic, and even though this was in the early 00s, I have never even considered working there since.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by dayvid on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:39PM (#28833892)
Very similar experience. It was a boring and tedious interview. The behavioral part of the interview felt odd with a focus on tailoring my experiences around Amazon principles which I wasn't aware of until a few days before the interview. The employees seemed nice, though, but not really cheerful and a little standoff-ish. It honestly felt like a more traditional style of interviewing.

I contrast that with another FAANG interview I had, where you had lunch on campus and they tried to leave a positive impression.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:39PM (#28832786)
I found my Amazon interview to be surprisingly easy and friendly, except for one interviewer who gave me Alien Dictionary and got offended when I told her this was a well known leetcode problem. Oops..didn't get the job.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by rzanella on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:33PM (#28832067)
I interviewed for Amazon Brazil once, it felt like I was being questioned by the police as if in a movie:

- 4 straight hours inside a room

- every hour the interviewer changed

- got asked the same questions over and over again

I was quite upset that I didn't pass... couple weeks later I was not, what a shitty experience it was.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by mypalmike on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:18PM (#28833729)
Apart from getting asked the same questions, the other parts are quite common in the industry. I mean, some places might move you around a bit between rooms, but literally every job interview I've had over the last 25 years has been essentially 4-6 hours of tag team wrestling with coding/systems/personality questions.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by rzanella on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:06AM (#28837633)
Indeed, but when these hours are unpleasant they are an eternity, which probably tarnishes your memory of it.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by mypalmike on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:40PM (#28845419)
They're always unpleasant! :-P
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ClumsyPilot on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:49PM (#28832238)
"- 4 straight hours inside a room

- every hour the interviewer changed

- got asked the same questions over and over again"

It's the same in UK, at least they standardised it!

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by humanlion87 on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:15PM (#28832517)
It's the same in North America as well. If you get scheduled during lunch time, you will get the opportunity to go outside at least :)

All that is moot now because of covid.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by spacedcowboy on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:40PM (#28832792)
It's the same in the US too. My last (internal transfer) job interview at Apple was 8 hours long, 8 interviews.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by matthewfcarlson on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:24PM (#28833778)
I think I might have you beat with 9 hours, but that was an external interview
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by jdavis703 on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:58PM (#28832340)
This sounds like a fairly normal interview process. How do tech interviews typically work in Brazil?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by rzanella on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:00AM (#28837596)
I don't think it's a "Brazil" thing, I've been in Europe for a while now, I only mentioned where it was because maybe it's different between (Amazon) branches.

The current job I'm at was like 5-6h of interviews, it was hard to pass, but it didn't feel like the interviewers were trying to play "good cop, bad cop"

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by morelandjs on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:58PM (#28833569)
They also sort of shoot themself in the foot with their interview process. I recommended the absolute best person I know for a position he was exceedingly qualified for. Amazon would have been lucky to have him.

They blitzed him with leadership questions and were “not inclined”. Incredibly dumb given their current situation. He’s not even bad on those dimensions, they just can’t get pretty off topic imo.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by teh_infallible on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:22PM (#28831965)
A recruiter contacted me one for a position at Amazon, and I straight up said I will never work there because of the way they treat their employees. (Probably burned a bridge with that recruiter, but oh well)
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by UweSchmidt on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:10PM (#28833131)
It's not possible to burn a bridge with a recruiter, these are 'salespeople' who get many no's per day and have pressure to perform.

A recruiter call doesn't mean a company has interest in a candidate. It just means the Amazon job description and your resume both included the word JAVA.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Sohcahtoa82 on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:17PM (#28833204)
I probably burned a bridge with Activision-Blizzard a few years ago. They contacted me about a potential job, and I said "When I was earning my degree, I dreamed of working for Blizzard. But then earlier this year, you announced record profits, and then only a couple days later announced the lay-off of over 800 workers. No thank you."

And considering their current controversies, my opinion on working for them has not changed.

If they ever contacted me again, I'd probably just laugh.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by idiotsecant on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:41PM (#28833912)
You sure showed that HR drone.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by void_mint on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:40PM (#28833426)
But...you're aware that record profits aren't a blank check to employ whoever you want in whatever positions they want, right?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Sohcahtoa82 on Monday October 11, 2021 @08:28PM (#28834630)
Of course. But to make a layoff announcement right after a record profits announcement is pretty poor taste.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by 8note on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:29AM (#28836708)
Clearly they could afford to keep the people that were working while said profits were extracted
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by rootusrootus on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:31PM (#28832043)
Both Facebook and Amazon have contacted me recently, and in both cases it was a senior manager doing the recruiting. Maybe just a new strategy in general, or perhaps it's because both companies struggle with reputation.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by AdrianB1 on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:40PM (#28833427)
I know a local Amazon director and he was spending a lot of time with recruiting, he had to hire a very large amount of people and that was his top measure for that year. Even paying above the market, with their reputation and the competition on the market it was difficult to meet the target.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:42PM (#28832818)
If they were contacting you with a specific interesting position, that would be something. If they were contacting you with a generic position they just needed to fill...that sounds like a lot of cringe.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by rootusrootus on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:06PM (#28833638)
I have only actually talked with the guy from Facebook. All he did was talk about how great his teams are, how super intelligent his engineers are, etc. While he politely listened to what I had to say, he was definitely on a mission to market his little slice of Instagram and get me interested in running the Facebook interview gauntlet.

He even suggested that it would be totally okay if I was one of those people that wanted to study for a month or two before interviewing. Study?! For a job interview?

It was a weird experience. I normally shun recruiters, but I was just curious enough to hear what this guy had to say. His LinkedIn profile didn't indicate any past involvement with recruiting, so I wanted to know why a senior manager would spend time recruiting random people -- he must spend every waking hour on these calls.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:11PM (#28833681)
Studying a month for a job interview...well, if you need a job and have the time, it can definitely work out well in the end. The leetcode problems are kind of fun to work on once you get into them, but they are definitely of limited use.

My Facebook interview was weird also, but the people were super nice and the coding problems were fairly easy. I failed on distributed systems architecture, oddly enough, as it was an area I had no experience in for a senior hire (but I got an offer from Google the same day I was rejected from Facebook, so I didn't have much time to be sad about it).

But managers recruiting random people, just seems weird to me. If they wanted me for my specific skill set, that would be great! But if they were just looking for general hires, they must have lost a bet or something.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by hacker_newz on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:31PM (#28832044)
Don't worry, they don't last that long.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by the_only_law on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:35PM (#28832746)
Both and I someone else I’ve spoken to have been reached out to by Amazon recruiters for different, both technical roles.

Neither of us get any attention from “good” companies whatsoever, but we both at least got a handful of messages from Amazon recruiters. They seem desperate. I didn’t bother pursuing as a little research showed they wouldn’t offer enough for me to relocate anyway. I’m not a fan of the FAANG hiring/placement and would probably not engage Amazon on that unless they could offer me a particularly enticing role, at least not now. Am I missing out on money? yeah probably.

The most interesting thing though, was how robotic the recruiter felt. The messages I got felt more like some mass automated messages than someone reaching out to speak to me about open roles.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:41PM (#28832801)
> (Probably burned a bridge with that recruiter, but oh well)

They seem to have a lot of recruiters and I'm surprised if this even got you off their "contact every month" list.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by mrRandomGuy on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:11PM (#28832481)
Good, if you treat all your employees like garbage don't be surprised when not that many people with actual skill are willing to join
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by bowmessage on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:24PM (#28831978)
Another nail in the coffin for downtown Seattle's recovery?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by jvolkman on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:16PM (#28832535)
I was downtown this weekend and it was much busier than I expected. I rode the light rail from the new Northgate station, and the train was (relatively) full after the university stations. I hope the two are related.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Spivak on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:43PM (#28832186)
It's not as doom and gloom as you might think. Without such a huge wealth gap between the people who work for the downtown industry and tertiary business you might get lucky and have a cultural resurgence as artists, musicians, restauranteurs, local retail, etc etc can afford to live and set up shop downtown again.

People seem to forget that outside of the supermega metro areas the typical downtown/financial districts are basically dead.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kodah on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:03PM (#28832394)
> People seem to forget that outside of the supermega metro areas the typical downtown/financial districts are basically dead.

Before working in tech I lived in mostly small and medium sized cities. The downtowns were always packed, and usually the artists were local, but as much as I hear "artists and musicians" brought up with respect to a cities value, they don't lure people in. It's just a bonus. What does is good schools, affordable home prices, stable jobs, and a decent economy.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by asdff on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:00PM (#28833015)
I'm surprised that's your experience to be fair. Mid sized cities like Columbus or St. Louis's downtown effectively shuts down at 5pm in my experience. All those tall buildings are offices, most of the restaurants around them serve business people and don't offer dinner service and close after the workday. Night life is in other neighborhoods adjacent, but not in downtown.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kodah on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:07PM (#28833107)
St Louis and Columbus are much bigger than the towns I'm thinking of. The two towns are basically suburbs with a downtown area. I was able to bike to both of them from my house. In my favorite of the two there were two restaurants that offered dinner service and were owned by locals. Everything else was chain restaurants and they all offered dinner and late night/bar services.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by asdff on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:13PM (#28833165)
Yeah if there isn't a ton of office space downtowns seem a lot more lively, since businesses stay open outside of 9-5 and people might actually live closer by. Even lower manhattan is considered a dead area after hours due to all the offices and not a lot of other businesses and housing to draw demand outside of 9-5 m-f.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ghaff on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:44PM (#28833467)
A lot of core downtowns (whether financial district or something more diverse) were pretty dead pre-pandemic after hours even if nearby areas of the city were pretty lively.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:36PM (#28832756)
> Before working in tech I lived in mostly small and medium sized cities.

How long ago? If you compare downtown Seattle to downtown Seattle 10 years ago, it was much better back then. Things changed quickly this decade, I wouldn't be surprised if the places you left packed are struggling today.

Seattle in general isn't struggling at all, it grew 25% this decade and the housing market...but downtown has a huge hill to climb in going to back to a fun place to visit on the weekend.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Arainach on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:52PM (#28834018)
When was downtown the fun evening getaway? I've been here 15 years, and unless you're looking for a Frat Bro party in Belltown, Fremont/Cap Hill/Ballard were always where the real social life was. They're all doing just fine now - you wouldn't know there was a pandemic on.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @07:20PM (#28834202)
I’ve been visiting Seattle since a toddler living in the tri-cities circa late 1970s. It indeed was a place to be, at least for a kid then a teenager and even when living in the U district and working at crackdonalds on third and pine.

But when I tell my son Seattle center used to have arcades and a roller coaster, he doesn’t believe me. Or when I talk about sending my great aunt and uncle off back to Alaska on the ferry at the water front (the Alaska marine highway used to start at Seattle rather than Bellingham).

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kodah on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:53PM (#28832934)
The two I'm thinking of are in Texas and they're doing well.

If I'm reading it right, the problem you're calling out is that it is unaffordable to live in a downtown metro after it reaches a certain density. People still think they can hack together solutions by subsidizing housing, rent control, applying grants, etc but I'm more of the mind that there's probably a max size to a city, where once you hit a threshold it either takes a nosedive into poverty or becomes so unsustainably expensive that it chases out what desirable things may have existed there in the first place.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by 8note on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:19AM (#28836643)
There's no lack of denser, cheaper cities than Seattle. If there's a max soze, Seattle isn't there yet. Poor design is the likely issue, likely cars being the problem. Cars take up a huge amount of space, both for wide roads for getting places, and parking both at home, at work, and at shopping centres.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:58PM (#28832988)
> the problem you're calling out is that it is unaffordable to live in a downtown metro after it reaches a certain density.

I don't know where you got that. Affordability downtown isn't really what is keeping people away (and it is not like rental buildings have lots of vacancies, nor are close to downtown condos, towhomes, and SFHs difficult to sell), but retail and restaurant choices have been decimated over the last decade, it isn't thriving from the point of view of someone going there to do things.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kodah on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:03PM (#28833064)
Ah, retail and restaurants are low-margin businesses, so I usually associate their decline with a rise in cost (labor + real estate). Usually restaurants don't just go away, they're replaced by fewer-in-number but more-expensive options that people don't want or can't eat at regularly. Cost also correlates with density, but I think that's more abstractly. Eg: more businesses show up, more workers are needed, more houses are needed, supply and demand flip flops as inventory in a relatively-fixed area shrinks or becomes a rental market instead of buyers market.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:47PM (#28833482)
Retail has declined due to online commerce. Seattle ironically lost its downtown Bon Marche/Macy's to become more office space for Amazon.

The homeless factor can't be understated in Seattle, especially with all the encampments downtown. I worked at 3rd and Pine McDonalds in the mid-90s, and for as bad as it was back then, it is ten times worse today.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ghaff on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:51PM (#28834006)
I was just in Seattle for the first time in about 5 years. The situation was... not good. And this from someone who has spent a lot of time in SF and always had a not totally positive take on Seattle with respect to the grunge factor compared to other PNW cities.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @07:57PM (#28834451)
Compared to other PNW cities, Seattle is about average. Portland isn't much better, Vancouver is...better because it is Canada but otherwise has very similar problems. No one can decide whether the term "skid row" was coined in Vancouver, Seattle, or Portland, they all had a similar place that was muddy because logs skidding to the mills which became a home for the down trodden.

So at least as far as its peers in the PNW, Seattle isn't very much of an outlier. Well, unless we can compare to other Seattle-area cities like Bellevue, which can simply push most of the homeless problem onto Seattle.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by boulos on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:06AM (#28836286)
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ghaff on Monday October 11, 2021 @08:09PM (#28834535)
I imagine there are nicer areas of Seattle than Downtown just as there are nicer areas of SF than Moscone/Union Square/Market Street but ick. Not really a city person except to visit anyway but the northern West Coast (and maybe the whole West Coast) has just gotten worse if that's possible.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by stadium on Monday October 11, 2021 @09:34PM (#28835055)
There are several city parks outside of downtown overrun with homeless encampments. Many roadside parking strips and interstate greenspaces too. It's widespread.

The city is trying to move people into housing but there's a lot of mental health and addiction problems that make many people resist the outreach support.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by seanmcdirmid on Monday October 11, 2021 @08:11PM (#28834558)
All of the west coast cities have similar problems (soaring housing costs, high growth, great tech jobs, lots of homeless people). Even when we count non-coastal cities in the west (Spokane, Reno, Sacramento, Las Vegas), it doesn't look better.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by Izikiel43 on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:22AM (#28836655)
Is it due to the weather? ( you don’t freeze in winter)
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by ghaff on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @09:49AM (#28839616)
Combination of weather and a political climate that makes harsh approaches to a difficult problem unpalatable. It's probably mostly not housing prices although that doesn't help.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by lmm on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:11AM (#28836315)
> as much as I hear "artists and musicians" brought up with respect to a cities value, they don't lure people in. It's just a bonus. What does is good schools, affordable home prices, stable jobs, and a decent economy.

Sounds very dependent on what stage of life you're in. I can see how people who are already looking to start a family would want the things you mentioned, but for those of us who haven't married yet, good options to socialise and meet people are a prerequisite before we even start to think about schools and buying homes.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by munificent on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:19PM (#28832569)
I think you're oversimplified and over-regimenting. Cities are like organisms. A healthy city needs a large number of different kinds of organs and systems all working in concert. Some may not be entirely essential—you can live without an appendix and give up a kidney—but almost all of them need to be in place to have something someone would call a thriving city.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kodah on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:56PM (#28832970)
Can you be more specific about what you're arguing? I can't really tell.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by munificent on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:54PM (#28834036)
I'm saying artists and musicians aren't a bonus. A city without them might be functional, but no one would love it and few would call it thriving. No part of a city is really inessential.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kodah on Monday October 11, 2021 @11:49PM (#28835850)
My hometown wasn't really known for artists or artistry and I still loved it. I think the desire to be around art is one that only part (maybe even a small part) of the country shares. Having it is nice, but not having it isn't really missing out on much, and it's fairly low on the hierarchy of needs.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kyleblarson on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:26PM (#28832662)
"you might get lucky and have a cultural resurgence as artists, musicians, restauranteurs, local retail, etc etc can afford to live and set up shop downtown again." Or you might get what you have now: boarded up businesses, open air drug markets, rampant unprosecuted crime, needles and human waste everywhere.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by void_mint on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:38PM (#28833408)
Curious, when was the last time you were in downtown Seattle?
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kerng on Monday October 11, 2021 @10:04PM (#28835266)
The thing with the needles is crazy scary - I keep seeing them a lot recently when in Seattle, not only downtown.

Just the other day I visited Capitol Hill around 15th Avenue and an entire park is full of tents, and a person defecated in an alley by Kaiser Permanente in broad daylight. Reminded me of Tenderloin district...

Feels like the city is going downhill - especially if you have family I'd stay away

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kyleblarson on Monday October 11, 2021 @06:14PM (#28833700)
2 weeks ago.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by MrStonedOne on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @06:59AM (#28838258)
> you might get lucky and have a cultural resurgence as artists, musicians, restauranteurs, local retail, etc etc can afford to live and set up shop downtown again.

The question really comes down to how much downtown real estate is paid off or under mortgage, which basically depends on how recently it was sold to a new owner.

Anything under a mortgage will be subject to a CMBS that was valued based on the worth of renting out the units in the building. These will have terms setup such that if the owner lowers the rent, they will be required to pay an additional down payment to cover the lost value in the mortgage's collateral (the building) from the now lower rents.

CMBS's will be invested in by multiple investors at different risk levels, creating different incentives on modifying or maintaining the collateral requirements, and anywhere from 50% to 75% of the investors will have to agree to any changes to the loan terms.

In short, some landlords downtown are bound by terms forbidding them from lowering rents without having to pay a huge capital expense for the privilege to do so.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by jdavis703 on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:56PM (#28832332)
What is stopping local restaurants and retailers from serving downtown workers? Back when I worked in a CBD, I almost always ate lunch at local/regional businesses.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by vineyardmike on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:03PM (#28832390)
> What is stopping local restaurants and retailers from serving downtown workers

The lack of downtown workers going into offices. Effectively there is no one working near those restaurants.

Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by mxmel on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:03PM (#28833061)
After reading the article it’s not clear why this is a change to such a publicly stated policy. The only thing that has changed is that the directors have discretion to choose how many days in the office will be required for teams. The headline is extremely misleading.
Re:Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefin... by kixiQu on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:19PM (#28833220)
Because they'd publicly sworn to SLU businesses that they were going to be dragging employees back.