I love how Australia has all the nature that wants to kill you and apparently New Zealand has none of it.

And the one venomous migrant species - it happens often enough to be legally protected in NZ since they came on their own - is curious, not aggressive, and doesn’t have fangs long enough to be much of a threat to humans. Quite charming.

I presume you're referring to the Katipo.

Note that white-tails and redbacks have also migrated to NZ from Australia.

Also, from Wikipedia: "A katipō bite produces the toxic syndrome latrodectism; symptoms include extreme pain and, potentially, hypertension, seizure, or coma." Not exactly what I'd call charming.

I was referring to the yellow-bellied sea snake in the article. From it's Wikipedia article [1]:

> Though rare, the yellow-bellied sea snake is the most commonly seen sea snake in New Zealand waters, to the degree that the species can be considered indigenous to New Zealand and protected under the Wildlife Act 1953.

The katipo is native to New Zealand and the two spiders seem to been introduced by humans. The yellow bellied sea snake just floats over so often it's protected.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow-bellied_sea_snake#Distr...

Ahh.. I don't know why I immediately assumed you were talking about spiders - my apologies!

I agree with everything you've said.

In case anyone is interested, Katipo bites are extremely uncommon. 2 deaths ever and 1 bite recorded from 1951 to 2012.

> Hornabrook, in his 1951 review of the early literature on katipo spider bites, found a total of 22 cases, including 2 deaths. Since 1951, there has been only one reported case of a katipo bite, involving severe myocarditis in a 22-year-old man, despite katipo spiders inhabiting coastal beach dunes around New Zealand.

[1] https://sciblogs.co.nz/griffins-gadgets/2012/03/09/bitten-by...

In comparison around 2000 people are bitten by redback spiders in Australia each year.

Bites were historically even more common when everyone had a dunny out the back.

Those spiders bite to protect its nest in the high grasses. It was a uncommon danger in cereal fields, when people harvested in shorts with a sickle, but currently everybody use machines for that.

in fact, our native animals (mostly birds) are really really unprepared for hostile species which is why they are getting decimated by introduced pests like possums, rats, ferrets. They evolved traits like being "smelly" so that they can find each other easily.... which, for a predator is like opening a fast food shop with neon flashing lights.

You don’t have to get so exotic. One of the devil researchers in Tasmania has been trying to get domestic cats banned from the island. With all the unique wildlife and already strict quarantine laws, I don’t know why cats don’t have to be registered in some areas.

There are similar efforts in NZ.

https://morganfoundation.org.nz/cats/infographic-damage-dome...

How is imprisoning a cat in the house 24/7 not animal abuse? My indoor cat develped OCD and died early at 10y of age because it developed hyperthyroidism according to the vet. I stayed at the 3rd floor with concrete and a fence under by balcony at the time, so 100% death rate if the cat fell off. Got the cat when I lived at a house with a yard, had to move over, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten a cat in the first place. I will never ever keep a cat indoors 24/7, better just refrain from getting one if no yard is available. Also no caged mammals, marsupials or birds.

How is unleashing imported predators and contributing to native wildlife extinction [0] not animal abuse, including 33 species that are now extinct [1]?

[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2486....

Can’t reason with the entitlement of pet lovers.

We should get rid of all cats in NZ at the very least.

The solution is to promote the use of marsupial cats as pets. Everybody wins.

Pet lovers have a pet. Endangered species of marsupial cats increase its population and native preys face the predators that coevolved with them so is a more fair situation.

Quolls? Aren't they endangered? How could one promote an endangered marsupial as a pet wihout trafficking endangered species and breaking the law?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJe9e8oTbA

I was willing to suggest this but most of the native species are wild animals so not very useful as pets? There's a discussion about the Tasmanian Devil.

https://weareexplorers.co/pet-tassie-devils-next-big-step-co...

The point would be to domesticate and breed them to help save the species.

Well, require them to be registered, neutered and ban all import cats? It's better than advising people to imprison their pets 24/7.

I've never looked in to importing cats, but requiring cats to be registered is a fairly common discussion topic here. Dogs must be registered and microchipped (and aren't allowed in national parks, nature reserves, or wildlife sanctuaries). It's more expensive to register dogs that aren't neutered, so I believe the vast majority of pet dogs are.

On the other hand, cats are commonly seen as a lower cost and lower responsibility option, and as a result there are loads of them loose outdoors. I help maintain pest (mainly possum, and rat) traps in a forest at the edge of a small city, our traps include some self-resetting rat traps [1]. This isn't something we've kept close track of, but I'd estimate 1 in 15-20 rats killed overnight in those traps will still be left the morning after, because a cat has cleared the dead rat overnight.

An outright ban on cats is a political non-starter, but if we could at least require registration then pest control folks would have some chance of eliminating feral cats outside of special conservation areas. And, hopefully that change would shift the discourse a bit so a ban could be feasible down the track.

[1] https://goodnature.co.nz/products/a24-rat-stoat

So there's basically no chance of getting rid of cats in NZ. Germany at least requires cats to be registered and have a chip or tatoo id. My ex lives there, has lost her cat, it was captured by animal control and she had to pay a 300€ fine at the animal shelter to get it back.

What about stoat, weasels and ferrets? I imagine one of those kills at least three fold more wildlife and birds than a cat, not counting eggs. Mustelids basically drove the kakapo to extinction.

It's not really fair to say that there's no chance of getting rid of cats in NZ, might be more accurate to say it's not something that will happen soon. As you point out, a good step would be to require cat registration, and in some areas that has very nearly become a reality in recent elections.

I'm not a conservation expert, but think it's safe to say that the answer to your question is a bit complicated. We have a national goal to be free of a list of predators including those by 2050 - it seems achievable, but only with a lot of work and political willpower. Stoats for instance can be killed with traps that cats can't get in to, so that's a useful tool in the more accessible areas where we still have pet cats to contend with. One of the more immediate issues in the big picture, is a small but vocal faction that's violently opposed to using a poison that is key in these efforts. To give some flavour, check out this recent and very well-done series: https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/fight-for-the-wild

> Germany at least requires cats to be registered and have a chip or tatoo id.

No, we don't. The only requirement is a chip + rabies shot if you are taking your cat, dog or ferret with you across other European countries (per directives 998/2003 resp. 576/2013).

> My ex lives there, has lost her cat, it was captured by animal control and she had to pay a 300€ fine at the animal shelter to get it back.

That is not a fine by the government, it is a charge from the shelter for the trap, medical checkout and accomodation cost.

Isn't it amazing how someone can steal your pet, then hold it for ransom to get it back, legally?

> I will never ever keep a cat indoors 24/7.

Well if you're in NZ, please consider not keeping a cat. The amount of damage they do to wildlife is absolutely shocking.

FWIW, my partner has a 100% indoor cat, and it seems just fine. It gets plenty exercise and stimulation through toys and play time.

I'm in Europe. Felis catus is a native species.

> I don’t know why cats don’t have to be registered in some areas.

That's a strange way to write "are forbidden from certain islands"

The only thing you need to really watch out for are what’s known colloquially as the Drop Bear. Also best not to aggravate a brown snake.

In New Zealand, it's usually not the animals that are trying to kill you, but the earth itself.

That's one of the reasons I moved to Australia, there's less chance of being killed by the wildlife here than by an earthquake or a volcano in New Zealand.

I think you've had too many beersies

You’re more likely to be killed by a motor vehicle in either country.

The "New Zealand Quarantine" is effective.

The article mentions a few times that "there are no snakes in New Zealand." This reminded me of the short story titled "There are no snakes in Ireland" by Frederick Forsyth in his book No Comebacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Comebacks

One of my favorite books of all time! For those who don't know, it's a collection of really great short stories with plot twists.

Mine too. My father is a huge fan of Forsyth, so I read his books growing up. My mother, on the other hand, is a big fan of Jeffrey Archer, so I ended up reading many of his books as well. I love the short stories with a twist in the tail but I haven't kept up with this genre. If it's not much to ask, do you have any suggestions of authors?

Hey! Here's some other collections of short stories you might like:

- The Best Of Ruskin Bond

- Roald Dahl - Someone Like You

Thanks! I will check these out

Pigs. Nz might seem to have no dangerous animals, insects and sea life, but we do have a lot of wild introduced pigs. They are more than capable of killing and many hunters come off second best even if equipped with a rifle.

Friend of a friend is in a wheelchair now because of a hunting accident involving wild pigs.

And yet a popular activity seems to be "pig sticking."

Which broadly speaking, involves using dogs to find and hold a boar so you can jump in and stab it to death.

Some people are crazy wild!

Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IHwKJOZZ6U

I was not disappointed to find this too can be blamed on global warming.

During the first 45 years of my life, if I wanted to see a parrot I had to either go abroad, or to some friends who had one in a big cage, or at the zoo. Then roughly during the last 7-10 years they started to appear first near the south west areas then they took the entire city. Now I hear and see them every day flying out of my window.

https://anamericaninrome.com/wp/2020/04/parrots-in-rome/

Also seagulls, that were nowhere to be seen away from the sea (which is over 30km from here) until years ago, now build their nests on roofs and can attack people to protect their eggs. As an upside, at least they took over pigeons.

Not sure if it's due to the global warming, still worth of attention.

Seagulls can travel quite some distance from the coast.

The state bird of Utah is rather famously the California Seagull. Salt Lake City is 730 mi (1200 km) from San Francisco.

https://statesymbolsusa.org/symbol/utah/state-bird/californi...

Everything can be blamed on global warming.

Australia is dangerous, even those snakes realise that.

If they go through MIQ first, all good!

Might be nit picking but aren't snakes venomous not poisonous as stated in the article?

They can be both. I wouldn't recommend eating any venomous animal as their venom may poison you. The venom may be digestible, but get a tiny scratch from one of those fangs and you will not be happy.

Can be, but iirc, there is only one snake that is in fact poisonous (to eat). Most snake venom is complex, unstable molecules that your stomach acids would destroy pretty quickly.

I happen to have an Oxford English Dictionary next to me so I took a look. Definition 1 for poisonous is "Containing or of the nature of poison; having the quality of property of poison; venomous".

1665 ... poisonous viper ...

The OED is listing common usage, while the biological jargon is specifically drawing a distinction in the way the poison is delivered by an animal.

Yes; the article itself does refer to them as venomous but people are quoted as saying poisonous, though maybe the article's use of 'venomous' is a correction that happened after your comment.

Maybe there is something in the sea that makes the sea snakes trying to go on land. As the article said, one might be a climate, but we can't say for sure as the researchers need to find out more about the cause.

Mmm I had a boss on one job who used to scoop see snakes up out of the water by their tail and bring them up on deck for the rest of us youngins to see. Wild creatures. Their colours are amazing.

They are trying to evolve and become land snakes.

The only good snake is a dead snake.

if you think that a pretty limited and easy to avoid danger from snakes warrants that, imagine what almost every animal in existence should think about humans, the source of unlimited and unavoidable danger to almost everything living.

Seriously?

Not only are snakes fascinating to anyone who has a clue, they are also quite helpful.

After building gardens, we had a minor plague of voles (kind of mouse-like, but eating plants and behaving a bit like moles) eating the plant roots - in the spring, just go touch a plant and it falls over, it's rootball having been eaten back to the size of a tennis ball.

The next summer we started seeing garter snakes, and several years later a milksnake (I live in the Northeastern US). The voles aren't 100% gone, but mush less of a problem.

Watching an ecosystem balance itself is wonderous.

Live Australia (where I think the snakes are probably much more venomous than NE US?). Have young children so any snake I see on my property other than a green tree snake will be executed.

There's a universe of difference between "kill all snakes" and "kill snakes on your property if you have children and live in Australia and aren't sure it's non-venomous".

I was living in bronte in Sydney and heard a ruckus one morning, family next door with 4 young kids screaming. About 20m later the father came out with a shovel and a snake on it that came up through the toilet bowl, was the 4yo that discovered it. I don’t know what kind of snake it was but that would be enough for me to not want to raise kids in Australia lol.