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Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by manigandham on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:38AM (#27560772)
Steam has a ridiculously terrible UX, and somehow it's still better than all of the others like Epic and Origin. I'm amazed at how many billions are spent on these stores but basic UI design and features still can't get implemented.

This is probably the most valid question of "what exactly are all those devs doing?"

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by smoldesu on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:13PM (#27561741)
Steam's UI sucks. Steams UX is fantastic though, at least in my experience. They'll do everything in their power to put you in control of your software, inviting you to tinker and poke around with it if something needs to be fixed. It also does most of the leg-work when setting up Wine in Linux, so most Windows games are just install-and-play. Their payment system is friction-less, their recommendation system is actually half-decent, their CDN is relatively fast... there's not much that Steam fails with, besides it's social features and general UI shortcomings.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by manigandham on Saturday June 19, 2021 @03:53PM (#27563841)
How would you not be in control? It's files on your drive, you can always tinker around with the software regardless of how it's installed.

Their payment system doesn't even support multiple cards saved at the same time, but having a checkout and using a CDN is ecommerce basics that any hobbyist can setup. That's a very low bar for UX.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by judge2020 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @04:15PM (#27564037)
Being able to move games, add extra library locations, scan and fix broken directories (eg. when your drive is failing and you're only able to copy 90% of the game uncorrupted) is immensely valuable.

The Epic Games store doesn't have libraries nor a 'locate' feature, so if you want to move a game you have to go to the existing game folder in Windows Explorer (no Mac or Linux by the way[0]), move it to a temporary directory, start the install in the new directory, 'cancel install', move your game files to the directory the launcher just created, and then 'resume' the install. Only then can you move and have the launcher recognize the new location without having to redownload the entire game.

0: https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap (it's not even in 'future development' which includes other long-requested features like a shopping cart from 2019)

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by dharmab on Saturday June 19, 2021 @09:50PM (#27566331)
This stuff sounds basic, but it's important and a lot of stores get it wrong. I couldn't use the Windows store on my last PC because at the time it didn't let me install some games to my SSD and some to my hard drive.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by tracedddd on Saturday June 19, 2021 @04:56PM (#27564403)
You can also specify custom launch parameters from the GUI.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by alternatetwo on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:30AM (#27567376)
Which don't sync between computers unfortunately.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by w4rh4wk5 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @06:25PM (#27565059)
You are not in control. Neither can't you downgrade a game, nor can't you disable the update mechanism.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by bussierem on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:01AM (#27569537)
This is categorically wrong. I have been able to successfully do this for multiple games, the most recent being KSP when an update broke all my add-ons so I downgraded until they all caught up.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by w4rh4wk5 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:19PM (#27575028)
Looking at KSP, this is a courtesy of the developers since they decided to keep other versions available as _beta branches_.

This is certainly not the common case. Look at other games, Doom Eternal, Hollow Knight, Arma 3, Divinity: Original Sins 2, ... They don't offer that.

Look at the automatic update settings. There is no option to not update a game at all such that you can keep playing the current version. At any setting it will still check for updates when you launch the game (for the first them since starting the Steam client).

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by blfr on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:54AM (#27560945)
It seems like all update/stores suffer from that. How can

    apt update; apt dist-upgrade 
be so snappy and pleasant to use, whereas graphical frontends seem to hang, spin the fans, return little to no information about what is happening, and be terrible in general?

Windows 10 is particularly annoying since I don't even know how to force the update now because it seems to be dead set on doing it magically in the background at the least opportune moment.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by zamadatix on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:23AM (#27561266)
I think the advantage of apt and similar tools is their database is the source of truth for the system not the other way around. E.g. when Steam or even a general program installer run they are responsible for checking the current machine for anything that might conflict or a missing dependency and fixing that once detected then actually running the game or app. In apt it checks the lovingly crafted app database and if that's wrong or you've done something manual it's not set up to detect it'll simply break. When 99% of what you ever need is in this automatic database of free, basically first party, stuff it works wonders.

The only difference between Windows 10 and say Ubuntu with auto updates is Windows 10 will prevent you from picking an infinite time out for updates that require a reboot. If you want to manually update it's the same, go to the update app and check for updates. If there are updates hit install. Upon install the update app will have a restart to install button and the restart/shutdown buttons in the Start menu also have install and restart/shutdown options.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by jasonjayr on Saturday June 19, 2021 @02:39PM (#27563129)
Windows Update is pretty brutal in general.

While Windows 7 was still current, there was an update that refused to install, and reported a cryptic error code in the UI.

After digging into dense log files and online support I came to discover it was refusing to install because of an Incompatible version of the super-old Novell Netware client, that lived in C:\Old_Computer\hard-drive\installers\novell_installer-${someversion}.exe

Windows was scanning the entire hard drive @ install time to look for any software on it's list of incompatible software.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by paholg on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:44AM (#27561474)
Steam, on Linux at least, comes with its own versions of libraries for games.

So it gets to act much like apt.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @04:21PM (#27564088)
Steam games and 95% of programs don't really have dependencies other than stuff like visual C++ runtimes, and steam takes care of running those installers. And those won't cause conflicts either. There's no good reason it can't work the same wonders.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by yrro on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:05AM (#27568354)
> steam takes care of running those installers

In my experience it does this again, and again, and again... every single time I launch some games!

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by Jiocus on Saturday June 19, 2021 @04:51PM (#27564360)
> graphical frontends seem to hang, spin the fans, return little to no information about what is happening, and be terrible in general?

That's a beautiful description of modern GUI development right there.

- What about a 150ms delay on-click for a smooth transition here?

- And that spinner looks too good to rush through, so make it pace evenly in case it finished too fast!

- Did you see that? There's a subtle but intuitive shade and color change depending on the result. So natural you hardly notice.

- Neat!

°

To be honest, while I may not appreciate this kind of design in every place all the time, I do wish I was skilled enough to make any beautiful GUI and web experiences at all.

Intricate design can be such a timesink doing even basic stuff if it's not one's strong area. Kudos to all the UI, UX people.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by salawat on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:21PM (#27561811)
I see you have not run into the many edge cases where an apt-based package manager does something completely daft, requiring one to either go in and manually build back up state to get it sane, or say screw it, burn it to the ground, and start again. Anything with databases has had a high chance of getting one into this situation in my experience, and became the leading motivator for me to sit down, slog through Linux From Scratch, get familiar with the GNU dependency hierarchy, learn bloody dpkg, learn to tear apart packages, learn to build cross-compile toolchains (still haven't mastered quite yet), and work on setting out my own system conventions that I'll eventually write down and hand off to anyone unfortunate or enthusiastic enough to strike me as being a candidate for inheriting my systems. Also grokking the wiles of the dynamic linker.

You can say I'm doing it wrong for not going with the flow, but at the end of the day, in a world with ever increasing abstractive opaqueness, somebody has to carry forward a nuts n' bolts understanding of what all of this madness is built on.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by fragileone on Saturday June 19, 2021 @05:47PM (#27564751)
Curious your thoughts on Nix/Guix for managing your packages?
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by salawat on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:11PM (#27571431)
Honestly, I like the idea. I've been meaning to pick up the GUIX package management layer to try out.

I love declarative reproducible systems in theory and figure they'll hit the sweet spot 90 percent of the time, though I'm not 100 percent sure they'll fix all my issues, as I tend to do horrifying things like making one system's dynamic linker aware of another system's set of libraries (crossing distro boundaries is ill advised, but doable after forcing yourself to read up on how ld works), and other daft things like that. Was distro hopping for a bit, and have settled on something I like, just need to unite all the other things into a single overarching system image.

Obviously, this would require me going one-man package maintainer for doing this, and I'm reluctant to start, because I see the value of these package management techniques everyone settled upon, and I'm just trying to figure out the right way to store everything.

Basically, I'm nuts, I do horrible things with linkers in the name of "screw it, I can't break it any worse" and I have an update turnaround time worse than Slackware.

I figure give it a couple years and the stubbornness will be broken through.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by MikusR on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:42AM (#27561453)
A typical game is tens of gigabytes. A typical apt package is megabytes.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by emsy on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:23PM (#27561841)
That’s not really the point here. The UI on command line apt is instant, regardless of the package size you always know what apt is doing at the moment. Compare that to any recent updater that just throws vague status messages at you with no indication of whether anything is actually happening.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by MikusR on Saturday June 19, 2021 @02:31PM (#27563052)
Is that true also when the package is 100 GB? Also last month I ran update on raspberry pi, and the kernel header package took an hour with no indication of progress except for heavy disk activity.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by khrbrt on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:09PM (#27561712)
It's broader than that. Fedora's package manager, dnf, is quick and snappy but it's GUI counterpart is sluggish and always hangs mid update.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by zenlot on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:03PM (#27562207)
Been using KDE native updater as much as command line. Couldn't spot any difference and it's as fast as cmd, never had any issues with it.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by khrbrt on Saturday June 19, 2021 @02:31PM (#27563054)
Nice. I've been thinking of switching to the KDE spin. My bad experience is with dnfdragora that comes with the default Gnome and XFCE spins.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by the_only_law on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:21AM (#27561248)
I’m still working trying to figure out why steam downloads seemed capped significantly slower than my general download speed
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by zamadatix on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:26AM (#27561299)
Make sure "Settings -> Downloads -> Limit Bandwidth To" is unchecked. If you checked something describing your internet speed after first install it'll throttle to that and I think the highest option in that menu was still 100 Mbps. Steam downloads default to bytes per seconds (option for bits in the same menu as above) so keep that in mind as well. In that menu you can make sure the download region is appropriately set to one near you too, I haven't had a problem with the autodetection for this personally though.

If all of the above is in place and it's still slow make sure you're not running into a single core throughput issue. The encryption and compression can be quite taxing. I can pretty easily hit 1 Gbps on a 5950X but some of my laptops can't due to their CPU.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by 1_player on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:23PM (#27562367)
Might be an issue on your end. Steam maxes out my bandwidth more than Speedtest/Fast.com do
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by floatingatoll on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:07AM (#27561081)
As far as I can tell, Steam’s main window is a web browser, upon which their web app “Steam” provides the experience we all suffer today. No doubt it has benefits for cross-platform work minimization, but they don’t seem to care how shoddy an experience it provides.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by zamadatix on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:28AM (#27561322)
Steam does use CEF but I don't think the UI rendering itself is actually what is causing slowness. The backend logic as well as services are native code
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by easrng on Saturday June 19, 2021 @06:44PM (#27565197)
APT? Snappy? In my experience APT is rather slow.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by chungy on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:43AM (#27561462)
apt has people that actually care about their users. They aren't shipping a MVP just to make big bucks.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by salawat on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:27PM (#27561890)
Mmmm. I try not to ascribe malice or altruism to maintainers of software. All too often "works in my test lab" is the key motivator there.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by baobabKoodaa on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:02AM (#27561013)
I can't wrap my head around this one either. Yes, Steam UX is horrible, every action takes 2 seconds to complete, even opening the home page takes 2 seconds when Steam is already running. They haven't even bothered to put up a loading spinner, it's just a black screen. And yet, somehow, Epic is even worse. Doing anything in Epic you have to look at black screen for like 5-10 seconds, and you never know when it has crashed versus when it's eventually going to finish doing whatever thing it was doing for 10 seconds.

But the absolute worst thing about Epic Games Store is that it steals 5% of my CPU cycles whenever it's running. That's right, when I'm playing a game I purchased on Epic, the game runs 5% worse (assuming it's CPU bottlenecked) because Epic Games Store needs 5% of my CPU to do nothing, all the time.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by smoldesu on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:31PM (#27562447)
Check out Legendary[0] as an alternative to the default Epic games launcher. If you're comfortable with the command line, it will stay completely out of your way, forever.

[0] https://github.com/derrod/legendary

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by iamcreasy on Saturday June 19, 2021 @04:29PM (#27564173)
Wow, this is really cool. Is there anything similar for Steam?
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by fragileone on Saturday June 19, 2021 @05:18PM (#27564541)
https://github.com/dmadisetti/steam-tui is one and it's built in Rust.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by smoldesu on Saturday June 19, 2021 @05:41PM (#27564713)
Holy shit, thank you for sharing! I've never seen that one before, but it might be the final element I need to put together a no-DE laptop... well, if those Discord TUIs hadn't died off :(
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by manigandham on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:47AM (#27561500)
These stores and games now include some pretty invasive DRM and anti-cheat software. That's probably what's causing the CPU usage.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by baobabKoodaa on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:52AM (#27561552)
Ok, I'll bite. Why does the DRM and anti-cheat software need to run while a game is not running?
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by raptorfactor on Saturday June 19, 2021 @05:41PM (#27564711)
Because if I can just load my own driver before you load your anti-cheat driver it significantly lowers the difficulty of defeating the anti-cheat. Whoever gets into ring0 (or below) first usually 'wins'.

So for example Valorant's anti-cheat leverages a hypervisor which is always-on, and then an additional client which runs when you launch the game.

The situation is similar with the ESEA counter-strike client.

I just refuse to play games with measures like that. Especially given the fact ESEA got caught deploying a bitcoin miner with their client.

These games always have cheaters anyway, so what am I giving up all that privacy and security for?

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by judge2020 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:05PM (#27566434)
The difference is that the price of developing cheats goes up when you need to defeat these measures, and when that happens it means fewer players in the 'cheat for sale' market. There will still be cheaters but much less doing it just for competitive play online. At that point the developer can just learn your business and go after you legally, like Activision has been doing for the past 10 or so years[0,1].

0: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-08-30-prominent-chea...

1: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160705/09363534897/check...

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by baobabKoodaa on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:53AM (#27567502)
> Because if I can just load my own driver before you load your anti-cheat driver it significantly lowers the difficulty of defeating the anti-cheat. Whoever gets into ring0 (or below) first usually 'wins'.

This is entirely unrelated to Epic Games Store wasting 5% of my CPU when it's running. I can just load my own driver before I launch the Epic Games Store.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by manigandham on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:09AM (#27570132)
It could also just be a bug in the launcher: https://www.pcgamer.com/a-bug-in-the-epic-games-store-launch...
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by nichch on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:05PM (#27561674)
Epic has no DRM. Steam’s “DRM” is non intrusive and optional. The EGS is a CEF application and is probably less resource efficient than it should be.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by hexo on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:13PM (#27562286)
thankfully they didnt put up a loading spinner. i would explode. :D
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by Jaygles on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:44AM (#27560815)
I shed a few tears when they decided to make Steam an electron app. It used to be so responsive and snappy even on old computers. And now almost every UI action has significant latency.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by paco3346 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:01AM (#27561006)
I've had the opposite experience. Ever since they switched to WebKit it actually works for me. Previous to that it was always so sluggish.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by forgotpwd16 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:17AM (#27561207)
Technically Steam isn't using Electron but CEF.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by hn8788 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:12AM (#27561146)
I ended up going into settings and changing it to low bandwidth and low performance mode to make it feel similar to before.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by rtpg on Saturday June 19, 2021 @08:01PM (#27565732)
It is bonkers to me how bad stores are in general, except for Steam. Nintendo’s e-shop is so slow, and the PlayStation Network stuff is soooooo impossible to use that it usually takes me at least 2 tries to buy a thing even when I want it. Do these companies not realize that this loses them money??

My dream would be to do a gig of performance tuning for these companies on their store platforms, cuz they clearly need it.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by c7DJTLrn on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:37AM (#27561413)
I like it. Steam is fast and fairly lightweight compared to the competition. It boots the games and lets me buy new ones, that's all I want.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by junon on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:40AM (#27568524)
We were going to compete with steam at one point but after a bunch of research decided against it.

Unfortunately, the critical mass problem is almost always the reason why nothing gets innovated anymore. We would have had an objective better experience for users and devs/publishers alike but the chances of success were next to nothing given the cost of migrating for both sides.

Really sucks.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by Hamuko on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:54AM (#27560942)
Why does the Epic Games Launcher even have a Home page when it always opens on the Store page?

And why is there an option "Hide Game Library" but there's no option "Hide Game Store"?

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by 29athrowaway on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:27AM (#27561310)
Origin feels really bloated and in need of optimization.

The Steam client has some nice features like Steam Link, which you can use to stream to a smart TV by installing the app.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by swiley on Saturday June 19, 2021 @02:22PM (#27562957)
It's not better than gog. I generally don't buy games that are only available on steam because it's just so fucking bad.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by pengstrom on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:44AM (#27560821)
Valve have been nothing but competent and financially successful. In sure they know exactly what they're doing, and it's not optimizing for customer ergonomics.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by 542458 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:59AM (#27560985)
I disagree on the “nothing but competent”. They have done things like left critical zero click RCEs open for years without patching them.

https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/valve-belatedly-fixes-ste...

People who have left valve often report that the organization is extremely dysfunctional.

https://medium.com/dunia-media/the-nightmare-of-valves-self-...

From where I’m standing, Valve looks like a company cursed by success. They have the advantage of controlling the world’s biggest PC game distribution platform (an advantage that is self-sustaining due to network effects), and as such have a fountain of near infinite money. This allows them to run an extremely inefficient organization without suffering the consequences that most companies would.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by ljm on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:03PM (#27562205)
I used to think Valve's approach to management (to essentially remove it) sounded like a great idea. But now it feels to me to be more of a curse than a blessing - there's a machine that prints money and what's the point of trying to kick off any project when no one has any real skin in the game and can abandon it when they get bored?
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by bob1029 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:00AM (#27560995)
Valve have been resting on the laurels of their prior successes and are destined for the dustbin of history if they don't start innovating again.

The gaming market has grown incredibly competitive, and statistically speaking the steam store has the most garbage out of all the stores combined x100.

The most depressing thing about Valve Software is that they are a privately-held corporation and have far more agility than the likes of EA, ATVI, et. al. There aren't quarterly earnings calls or other confining economics that would spook away investors if an ambitious AAA project were to be announced this Monday.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by nvarsj on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:24AM (#27561275)
Valve released Alyx last year, which is really a masterpiece of a game up there with Half life and Portal, and is the only real AAA VR experience that exists. No other big studio would risk building such a VR game due to it still being considered a very niche market.

Yeah they release stuff sporadically, and by all accounts the internal organization is chaos. But that somehow manages to produce some of the best games of all time.

Let's not forget also that Valve has pushed Linux gaming more than anyone else.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by sli on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:22PM (#27566533)
Alyx very much feels like Valve's current Portal, where they're testing out some ideas they've developed before building out a truly expansive game. It wouldn't surprise me if HL3 eventually came out and was a VR experience built on top of Alyx the same way Portal 2 expanded Portal into a much larger game.

The menu and method for selecting weapons in Alyx is ripe for some really intuitive gestures for multi-level radial menus, I would love to explore that myself if I can get back into gamedev one of these days. Weapon selection in classic Half-Life is organized by category, so two-motion gestures for selections seem like a logical step. You're right about the things that Valve excels at, I'm excited to see what they do with VR. It can always use big players in its corner.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by COGlory on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:10AM (#27561119)
Valve is absolutely innovating in a way that can only be done by companies that are privately held. They are laying the groundwork for a shift from Windows to Linux. They are playing a veeery long game there.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by MeinBlutIstBlau on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:07PM (#27562235)
We need better Linux software support before that happens. As long as it's easier to develop on windows, it'll never happen. I'd love for windows to go the way horse, but for now Valve is hedging bets on a Frankenstein that is Linux. I'm being critical only cause I'm aware of the difficulties of working with Linux. It's great if your a CS person who likes tinkering. It's god awful when you just want your computer to work. Meaning not having to deal with drivers, deal with scaling issues, weird software bugs that require you to install something obscure and run 4 different commands to get that one thing to run. Linux has gotten better immensely over the past decade, but it's still not even in Windows 7 reliability category of use yet. Maybe if there wasn't 100+ distros or whatever and people just focused on getting a couple at the level of XP, we could see a lot wider of adoption. But I guess that's the allure of it.
Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by smoldesu on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:43PM (#27562559)
> As long as it's easier to develop on windows, it'll never happen.

It's not though. Windows is a pain in the ass to develop for, and the only thing keeping most developers from writing cross-platform titles is DirectX. Luckily, there's a DirectX-to-Vulkan translation layer that will run 80% of Steam's "legacy" Windows games, as well as any new exclusives. As the industry starts to shift to Vulkan, developers will have much less incentive to ship Windows exclusives.

The final nail in the coffin is probably sandboxing. Linux support for sandboxed applications is next-level, and projects like Flatpak and AppImage have made it possible to ship software that's more stable on Linux than it is on Windows. Valve's probably wants to combine this with their Proton project to create truly "immortal" Linux applications: imagine being able to download a file containing a compressed VM image with Diablo 2 perfectly configured like a Docker container.

> Maybe if there wasn't 100+ distros or whatever and people just focused on getting a couple at the level of XP, we could see a lot wider of adoption.

The only difference between distros is package management, and 99% of them will install Steam, Discord, Spotify, and any of your other "normal" apps the exact same way.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by COGlory on Saturday June 19, 2021 @02:16PM (#27562892)
I think this is a fair comment and I wish people wouldn't downvote it.

That said, I disagree with some of what you're saying, and I also think there might be some stuff that you aren't aware of.

For starters, and perhaps my comment didn't illustrate this, but from my perspective, Valve's strategy is not to popularize Linux desktop. They did have SteamOS which they obviously abandoned/consolidated into Big Picture Mode. There are rumors of a handheld console that will likely be running Linux underneath, but I'd be shocked if the user ever sees anything but a Steam interface. So I don't think from that perspective that Steam particularly cares about a Linux desktop experience. They don't (to my knowledge) fund KDE or Gnome. They seem to want everyone to interact with Linux through the Steam software itself.

Additionally, to address the fragmentation points you are bringing up (which are clearly valid), Steam has developed a unified Linux runtime that ships with Steam on Linux, and developers can target that runtime for their games. So again, this is a distribution agnostic, desktop agnostic solution for developers. They only have to support one thing: Steam runtime for Linux. And I think that nicely solves the Frankenstein issues.

Now obviously if Steam never turns into a full OS, people aren't going to switch to it just to play games, when Windows can also play all those games, and supports office and Adobe software. So what the plan is exactly, I'm not sure. Valve doesn't seem interested in solving those problems, at least not yet. Perhaps they are just keeping the scope narrow to what they're good at (games) and hoping that others will solve those problems.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by Hamuko on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:05AM (#27561053)
>statistically speaking the steam store has the most garbage out of all the stores combined x100.

That's basically a non-issue. Steam has had a ton of random shit in there for years and people still prefer it to all of the other stores.

It's in fact preferable to have too much than too little. GOG might have DRM-free games and a fancy launcher that combines ALL of your game libaries from different launchers (GOG Galaxy is pretty neat), but it doesn't really benefit me when Mass Effect Legendary Edition isn't on sale there.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by Zababa on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:37PM (#27566626)
> The gaming market has grown incredibly competitive, and statistically speaking the steam store has the most garbage out of all the stores combined x100.

That's a good thing though. Steam greenlight was a really good idea, and now you have all kinds of games on Steam, which is really good. I haven't tried Epic but I remember Origin being dogshit compared to Steam. Maybe if all those stores are so terrible it's because it's actually a hard problem and not something trivial that anyone can do better?

Steam have most of the games, better practices than most people (no exclusives like Epic, which is a bad practice in my opinion), they've done many things for Linux gaming (automatically using Proton is really great and works well for most games), they also often have really good sales. Steam is here to stay.

Re:Steam required additional 57.51 GB download for a review by baud147258 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @08:23PM (#27565854)
Steam allowing a lot of garbage on its store also allow a lot of niche games to be sold there, remember one's man trash is another's treasure.