News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by isoprophlex on Saturday May 08, 2021 @08:51AM (#27086696)
I bet that out of the remaining 4%, a non-negligible fraction are mis-clicks, users accidentally opting in to tracking.

Who in their right mind, when given this choice, allows themselves to be tracked?

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by uberswe on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:06AM (#27086788)
I work with a senior front end dev and noticed he wasn’t using any kind of adblocker on his work computer and it surprised me as he was privacy concerned.

He said he wants to see the web like the average user and doesn’t want anything to change the default look.

I’m sure there are people who have similar reasons for allowing tracking.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by smoe on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:18AM (#27086869)
I think as a front end dev it is important to have blockers installed and toggle them during development/testing to make sure you don’t break something unintentionally either way.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by macNchz on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:39AM (#27087017)
Yeah a surprising number of sites tie their checkout navigation to callbacks on trackers, making critical things like the “Complete Checkout” button just straight up not work when the trackers are blocked...or just down for whatever reason.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by throw0101a on Saturday May 08, 2021 @11:28AM (#27087997)
> Yeah a surprising number of sites

A surprising number of sites have basic functionality, like showing content, not work if you have cookies turned off.

There are some shopping sites that don't even let you view items with cookies disabled: I understand needing them for purchases, but even Amazon allows for browsing without cookies.

Don't get em started on turning off JavaScript.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by lobocinza on Saturday May 08, 2021 @02:58PM (#27089785)
Thankfully some paywalls also don't work.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by pluc on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:57AM (#27087159)
Sounds like a pretty efficient way to get you to turn off your adblocker
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by omegabravo on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:07AM (#27087256)
or to not get a purchase, if I don't remember to turn off my adblocker I'll assume they have a bug and move on
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by nvoid on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:58AM (#27087173)
If you watch a lot of YouTube (i try not to these days), might I just shill for the "Sponsor Block" extension [1]? It blocks those sponsored segments in youtube videos. You can also submit segments to save others time so they can consoom more content.

I have saved 2.5 hrs and saved others nearly an hour through my submissions.

[1] https://sponsor.ajay.app/

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by nvoid on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:03AM (#27087226)
Also, slightly related:

If you want to watch less YouTube, you can use uBlock element picker to remove everything but the search bar. My YouTube web interface is just that now, no recommendations, no nothing. Bliss.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by xNeil on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:13AM (#27087309)
Could you tell me how exactly to do this? I'd love to this but I'm not sure how to do it.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by nvoid on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:34AM (#27087457)
Sure:

1: Download UBlock origin: https://ublockorigin.com/

2: Open Youtube

3: Right click on any element in the page and click "block element". Do this for anything you don't want to see. If you make a mistake you can unblock it by deleting the line in the "filters" part of Ublock settings.

It can take some trial and error to get it working properly but once you do its so nice. I don't even have a sign in button anymore because I don't have a google account.

Edit: For maximum procrastination prevention you can even block those end card recommendations once a video finishes.

Youtube is also massively better with "enhancer for youtube" [1]. It's not FOSS I don't think but it is too good to not use.

[1] https://www.mrfdev.com/enhancer-for-youtube

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by xNeil on Sunday May 09, 2021 @05:08AM (#27094440)
Thank you!
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by tuwtuwtuwtuw on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:09AM (#27086815)
But if 94% a of users disable tracking the average user experience would be with tracking disabled.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by NullPrefix on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:18AM (#27086870)
You're on your own if you change or disable something. Windows (used to) (unintentionally) degrade experience if you reduce telemetry settings.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by tuwtuwtuwtuw on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:31AM (#27086963)
That doesn't sound like an useful mindset. If you want to do something which works well for your users, but then run with some unusual configuration and tell the users that "they are on their one" when they use the most common config, well, then that just makes no sense.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by gsich on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:44AM (#27087056)
What "experience"?
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by vages on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:12AM (#27086832)
That’s very interesting! Taking this to the extreme, he should only browse the web on a small phone sized screen too, as most users are mobile.

I don’t think I’ll ever take this to heart, but I do turn on CPU and network throttling from time to time.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by Dyac on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:12AM (#27087292)
Hi might not, but the QAs should. Our QAs test everything on a bunch of old devices they got from secondhand stores- typically from iPhone 5 up, and whatever ratty 5-6 year old androids they can find, as well as latest stuff of course.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by uberswe on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:07AM (#27086800)
We also assume it’s all real users and not bots managing to opt in.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by 542458 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:11AM (#27086826)
True, if you’re running a clickfarm a higher CPC means more revenue, and that means no adblocking and opting in to all tracking... although maybe that makes it easier to identify you as a clickfarm?
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by g00gler on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:43AM (#27087043)
I too don’t use any ad blockers on my work computer. On my personal computer I have 4 different ad blockers and a VPN and stuff, always use private browsing windows in safari for non dev (debugging) stuff.

I only use my work computer for work and some very light and sparse HN browsing (via safari). I am signed in to chrome with my gsuite account from the company.

I feel that it doesn’t really matter if googling dev stuff or a random article is tracked, it might even be to my benefit in so far as I will be viewed as a dedicated and diligent employee thus raising my social credit score

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by usrusr on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:15AM (#27087325)
I don't use ad blockers and I occasionally "interact" with the advertised link as some kind of low level tip jar for wherever the ad was shown. The networks go crazy trying to sell that ad-click again. A click that will never earn the advertiser any money, no matter how often repeated.

What I've learned so far: don't click on ads you'd feel uncomfortable with seeing everywhere. The tracking industry must be such a waste of advertiser's money! If you like pretty pictures of horses in nature you can, with just a few clicks, get them to decorate almost the entire web with equestrianist landscape shots for you, without you ever spending a dime on, I don't know, saddle maintenance gadgets or whatever. I guess there are some advertisers for whom this isn't utterly broken, but they must be a rare reception. If you sell some supercar it's an essential part of the product that millions of small boys and poor men dream of driving one and it kind of makes sense to concave "the web" to show pictures to the dreamers, but that's a rather small market compared to the size of the tracking industry.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by dada78641 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @04:57PM (#27090608)
I actually did the exact same thing, for the same reason, a long time ago. I wanted to see just how bad things were getting, what sites were doing what kind of terrible ads, and how badly it was tanking both cpu and network usage.

Ultimately I quit doing that and installed an ad blocker because I felt there wasn't really any point to knowing this. It's the same story on every commercial site, and there's nothing I could do about it anyway.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by michelb on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:40AM (#27087022)
How does he work on a 1440x900 resolution?
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by comprev on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:20AM (#27086889)
That sounds more like a professional reason not to use an adblocker.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by draw_down on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:07AM (#27086802)
I do that on work computers for the same reason. However in this instance if 96% of people have it enabled then that is the baseline experience.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by taf2 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:17AM (#27086858)
I don't use adblockers because I don't like the idea of something tracking me. I don't trust adblockers to not be backdoors for hacking. That said I also dont' typically visit websites that use a lot of ads or when I do I don't stay on them very often... Also I did once find that personalized ads were a great way of coloring my web browsing experience... If I liked the pictures on one ad just click and then if you see another that you like click... eventually you start to have more pleasant browsing experiencing...
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by Dah00n on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:27AM (#27086938)
So you don't use adblockers (which block tracking) because you fear they might track you while you know that without one you are being tracked? I'm not sure you thought this through.

If you fear being "hacked" by an extension then there are lots of other options, like pihole, routers blocking ads, hosts files, etc.

I hope you are aware that billions are used on how to psychologically affect people with ads. Even if you don't click them (and especially if you do click those that make you feel good) you will still be bombarded by things made to affect you subconsciously.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by squarefoot on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:42AM (#27087032)
His point might be that no adblocker gives a true sense of insecurity while the adblocker might give a false sense of security, therefore the 1st choice would force the user to be more cautious. If that's the point I can understand it, however it should imply foul play by adblockers, which I believe would hardly happen since the most popular are fully open source and thoroughly audited (for example Ublock Origin, Umatrix and Privacy Badger all are FOSS).
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by MereInterest on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:22AM (#27086900)
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your comment at all. You say that you don't like being tracked, which is why you don't use an adblocker. But you end your comment by saying that you actually do like being tracked by ads, because it gives a "more pleasant browsing experience".
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by withinboredom on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:59AM (#27087180)
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. This is a unique way of looking at things, if a bit paranoid. As others said, there are ways to block ads without using an adblocker.

That being said, I used to go to Facebook /just for the ads/ because they were always interesting. Now they kinda suck, dunno what happened in the last few years.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by dylan604 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:44AM (#27087562)
Perhaps because it's a bit non-sensical? Clicking on an ad because the picture looks nice in anticipation/hopes of being served more ads with a similar look? That has to be one of the strangest things I've heard regarding ads. This has to be a trolling post, doesn't it?
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by vbezhenar on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:24AM (#27086915)
If Facebook would ask me, I'd opt in to tracking, as I prefer targeted ads over untargeted ads. But I'm too lazy to manually enable that setting, so I'm in 96%.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by johnwheeler on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:34AM (#27086980)
This is where I’m at as well. I prefer targeted ads and have discovered a lot of things I wouldn’t have otherwise. For me it’s not that I’m lazy, but when you’re specifically asked if you want to be tracked there’s an innate sense of danger that arises and your brain tells you to say “no”
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by moxvallix on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:57AM (#27087164)
The thing with targeted ads is that you don't discover the thing, the thing discovers you.

I'd argue theres good reason your brain is raising red flags when you are asked if you want to allow these manipulative processes to continue.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by wolverine876 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:53AM (#27087134)
Some focus only on the upside, more relevant ads, some only on the downside, lost privacy. How do you balance the two?
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by vbezhenar on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:54AM (#27087669)
I never had any significant issues taking over my privacy to corporations, so that does not really bother me. I know that this kind of data in corporations is guarded good enough so leaks are unlikely. I know that those corporations won't cooperate with my government, so that's a non-issue for me as well (might be an issue for US citizens, I guess). So the whole privacy debate looks to me strange, that's not the things that bother me in my life. But that's just my PoV.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by wolverine876 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:31PM (#27088574)
> I know that this kind of data in corporations is guarded good enough so leaks are unlikely.

With due respect, and you are completely entitled to your preferences, leaks are very common and a big problem, often reported on HN.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by vbezhenar on Saturday May 08, 2021 @04:34PM (#27090439)
I'm talking about big corporations. I don't remember any leaks from Google or Apple. I do remember one recent leak from Facebook which is very unfortunate, but that was not about collected privacy data, AFAIK, just some accounts.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by guerrilla on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:00AM (#27087190)
I don't see more relevant ads as an upside. I'd rather see totally irrelevant ads since they're much less likely to have an impact on me. They can waste their effort trying to manipulate me to spend unnecessarily on things I'll never buy.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by tjpnz on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:42AM (#27087039)
I've seen very similar ratios on YouTube for likes to dislikes, you'll see it on videos where the subject should be innocuous - typically anything animal related. While it's impossible to know what proportion of the dislikes were from misclicks I would bet on it being relatively high.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by pydry on Saturday May 08, 2021 @08:59AM (#27086756)
>Who in their right mind, when given this choice, allows themselves to be tracked?

Credulous people who believe that Facebook might start charging them to see photos of their grandchildren.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by icemelt8 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:06AM (#27086791)
people who have nothing to hide? I always click on Allow optional tracking to better serve software, its a way of giving back.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by linspace on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:19AM (#27086877)
I don't believe ads are evil necessarily but the "nothing to hide" reasoning is simply wrong.

I think most people opting out of tracking is because they feel manipulated. Isn't it the ultimate reason of marketing after all?

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by RHSeeger on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:19AM (#27086874)
> people who have nothing to hide

There are no such people. Rather, there are only people who don't realize they have things to hide.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by benjohnson on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:30AM (#27086958)
I have ideas that were considered mainstream ten years ago, but are now verboten and only shared in private.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by tux3 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:50AM (#27087110)
Mooom! Grandpa is doing it again!

;)

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by dmitriid on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:55AM (#27087151)
You may have something to hide (though I doubt it. You wouldn't want to have tour sex life or medical history to be public, would you?).

But people around you may. Nad their information can be as easily gleaned from yours.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by the_snooze on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:47AM (#27087077)
>its a way of giving back

These companies aren't charities.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by gsich on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:45AM (#27087071)
Wouldn't be too bad.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by thinkharderdev on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:22AM (#27086905)
It is suspiciously close tot he "Lizardman Constant" of 4% https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and....
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by ipaddr on Saturday May 08, 2021 @08:56AM (#27086734)
4% seems extremely low probably a miscount.

If the majority of these users are looking for privacy they probably wouldn't trust facebook with their data in the first place.

The reason seems to be the stats are not being properly counted by this company. Apple will need to confirm the numbers.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by orbital-decay on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:32AM (#27086969)
>If the majority of these users are looking for privacy they probably wouldn't trust facebook with their data in the first place.

This assumes they know and care that they're being tracked. Once faced with a clear choice without any dark patterns, it's fairly obvious that most users will select no tracking, unless the (supposed or real) benefits of being tracked are also explained to them. With the default Facebook behavior, they simply aren't being reminded of it. Out of sight, out of mind.

It's been known forever that opt-in data collection is almost useless, because the overwhelming majority of users won't allow it if they have the choice, regardless of the expertise. In fact, it's the reason for the current state of things - the telemetry and tracking of all sorts are being forced by default in most of the software and services with no option to disable it.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by ashtonbaker on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:00AM (#27086762)
I think people accept tracking because they feel like they don’t have a choice. But when the choice is as easy as a button, they happily opt out.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by dorchadas on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:38AM (#27087010)
I don't even believe it's because they feel they don't have a choice -- I think it's more they don't realize the data Facebook et al collect (or that it's even collecting data). So when Apple asks if they want to be tracked, they say no because they don't want to be tracked but didn't realize it before.

A lot of people don't realize they track you across websites etc, even if it might seem obvious to us.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by ashtonbaker on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:12PM (#27088410)
Agreed, it’s a default choice with vague implications to the average person.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by datavirtue on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:27AM (#27086941)
Exactly. This is the same reason Facebook won't let users moderate content.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by hugi on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:04AM (#27086777)
The number sounds about right to me. Why would I click a button that says "allow Mark Zuckerberg to gather my private data"? How is that not just a pure negative for me?

I use the Facebook website from time to time, which I accept is kind of duplicitous, knowing the data they gather from those sessions will be abused. But my browser is configured to disable everything Facebook on sites other than Facebook (comments, "social plugins" etc) so at least it's confined and done explicitly by me, with my knowledge.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by ponyous on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:09AM (#27086812)
> "allow Mark Zuckerberg to gather my private data"

Because that's exactly what it says...

Consider "Would you like to improve FB experience by sharing how you use the app?"

You are a tech dude and read it the same, but it's not the same.

Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by twobitshifter on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:35AM (#27086988)
Apple clearly writes the acceptance policy but Facebook has a begging screen that pops up in front. Apple asks you if you want to allow Facebook to track you across other websites and apps. This is not telemetry, but ad-profiling. Facebook can still log everything you do within Facebook, it’s the stuff outside of Facebook that they’re been blocked from seeing.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by mnd999 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:38AM (#27087014)
For me the setting to even allow them to ask for tracking was off by default. I would have had to have found some buried setting and changed it to even get the pop up. I would have had to be pretty keen on being tracked to do that.
Re:Over 96% of Apple Users Have Blocked Facebook from Tracki... by germinalphrase on Saturday May 08, 2021 @08:59AM (#27086753)
Most people probably assume facebook’s tracking stops at “of course they track the information/photos I choose to post”.