For many years my partner and I operated in the same way. I paid our rent, utilities and food while she spent on her hobbies and saved. I was not unhappy during this time because I didn't want much. A few years ago though, I became a bit more financially aware after having my first soul crushing job and realizing I couldn't rely on work to produce income in the same "easy" way I had when I was younger. The emotional cost had become too high. Managing this part of our relationship continues to be a multi-year process requiring ongoing discussions of what we have, what we want and what we'd be willing to do to get it. It feels like a muscle that atrophies, but I have made my peace with that because it works for us. I remind her what she wants and how she can get it by helping me now or spending less now. I even ask her to provide the same feedback for me. Her perspective on my spending is as important as my perspective of hers. I imagine we will regress in the future. Those moments will probably suck and cause a lot of stress. For now my only advice is to make a habit of these discussions in your relationship and protect the habit as long as you can.

"...having my first soul crushing job and realizing I couldn't rely on work to produce income in the same "easy" way I had when I was younger. The emotional cost had become too high."

I feel exactly like this.

My wife has basically changed what she wants (or stopped hiding it) now that we are married. She wants a big fancy house and she wants to live in an suburbanized and expensive area. She originally told me she wants to live in the country and own land. This area isn't the country and we can't afford land around here.

She doesn't care about her spending. She has never been required to support herself or even live alone. She would rather spend a lot on a her expensive horse hobby than contribute to our kid's college or our shared bills. By expensive I mean she spends as much or more each month than I do on the mortgage. One month of her hobby expenses equals what I spend in an entire year on hobbies, and many of my hobbies have a return on investment (like foraging/cultivating mushrooms, growing a garden, etc).

I've come to accept that I will be stuck here and miserable. I don't see myself living past 50 in this condition, so I just have to endure this until then. I don't really see much reason to try extending that either.

If your relationship has you counting the days until you die, you need to hit the eject button for your own safety.

This entire post, if it's anywhere close to objective truth, is wildly alarming!

How? With a divorce, GP commenter will be required to continue supporting his* ex-wife's hobbies financially, now without any option to balance then with his own earning. He will not be permitted to earn less and reduce the spending proportionally.

On top of that if there are any kids he will be required to take up a portion of her only responsibility.

* Statistics-based assumption

He can move to any country that doesn't have debt collection agreement with US (assuming he's from US). Like Philippines or New Zealand. Or just make himself judgement-proof. Convert his savings to Bitcoin, quit his job and work cash jobs. Court cannot force him to earn less.

Then they'll issue an arrest warrant.

No they won't. Debt is a civil matter, not criminal.

Unpaid child support will result in an arrest warrant in many states. The debt itself may be civil, but it's a crime to avoid the court mandated payments.

My father in law was in a coma for a while and the child support payments stopped and he went broke from the lack of job and medical bills. They arrested him multiple times after that because he wasn't paying. Of course that gave him a criminal record and made it much harder to get a job.

Until convicted.

What do you mean by "not permitted to earn less?"

If you're under some sort of child support and/or alimony, courts will often interpret losing a job as an attempt to dodge payment, and will not reduce payment to match the new circumstances.

Are you a divorce lawyer? Please substantiate your claims with credentials.

http://www.realworlddivorce.com/ is a great resource on this subject

Are you a credentials expert? Please substantiate your loaded questions with credentials.

(throwaway because I don't like to mix discussions of my relationships with professional discussions)

I was in a situation freakishly similar to yours for over 10 years. In late 2019 I left her, and while it was one of the hardest decisions of my life, definitely the hardest day of my life, and the road to a mentally healthy(er) position has been ongoing, it has proved to be a wise decision. I spend far less of my day feeling resentful, unvalued, and unvalidated, both individually and in my new relationship. In my own time and in counseling with a professional, I have learned many lessons about myself, what I want out of life and in a partner, and how to be my own advocate.

I deeply empathize with your position and you deserve to be happier. I hope this experience of mine might give you some vicarious experience to draw from, and I encourage you to consider making a change.

You're getting a lot of unsolicited advice here, from folks who mean well but all of us here can't know the particulars of your situation.

That you're posting this on HN suggests that you would really like to have someone to talk to about this, at the very least to feel heard about it.

From personal experience, consider a therapist for a while - starting just on your own. There's nothing wrong with you, but you're in a sticky situation and are unhappy, and you're worried about the implications for your daughter and your own longevity. It can be really nice to have someone to talk through this stuff with, especially when it might be tough to talk with your wife about it, at least at this point, if she's causing the problem. I don't know about you, but it helps me mentally figure out what to do when I can talk about it, and (good) therapists are good at pulling our thoughts out and letting us think about all the angles.

It's pretty low stakes, and while they do cost some money, it's not a ton (compared to the horses!). And it can really help you think through the particulars of your situation over time, which it's tough for any of us here on HN to do, and when it's time to do the tough stuff - like broaching the subject with your wife - you have got someone in the therapist who knows the background and can help you deal with any fallout.

Good luck. You deserve a happy life. Your daughter deserves a good future. We only get one shot at this.

Yes, agreed. I want to add, "You can’t pour from an empty glass of water.” Fill your cup first, take care of yourself, then your daughter, otherwise you might harm both.

I agree with the other comments that you need to do something, but I'm going to disagree with that you should jump to divorce as the first step. You haven't said what you have already tried, so I suggest:

1) telling her how you feel, in the form of "I feel X when you do Y". For example, "I feel unvalued when you spend more on your horse than we do on the mortgage. I feel scared for our kid's future when you prioritize your expensive horse over saving for his/her education. I feel trapped when you spend the money I make without deciding together how to spend it." It can be hard to know exactly how these actions make you feel unless you've practiced thinking about it, so you might want to write it down and revise it over a week or two. Also, depending on how your wife takes feedback, you might want to have discussions of just one at a time.

2) marriage counseling.

3) setting boundaries: "my standard of being treated is <...>" and take steps to "enforce" them. The easier levels are along the lines of "I want to be talked to respectfully, so I will leave the room when you do not, but when you are ready to talk respectfully, come and get me." I'm not sure how you communicate "I think our budget should look 25% house, 20% food/clothes, 10% retirement, 10% kids education, etc, which leaves $X for optional things like horse; if you need more than that you'll need to get a job" without being unilateral, though. But you have some financial values/boundaries that are being crossed and you need to communicate / enforce those.

4) It would be a bad sign if your wife didn't respond positively to any of the above. However, even in that case you could get counseling for yourself on how to respond healthily, and you are also likely to get insight into why your wife is behaving this way (the counselor might notice consistent signs of co-dependency, for instance).

5) Read pre-modern stories about how spouses handled toxic behavior. (The quasi-mythic ones that start off "There was once a woman in ... whose husband ...") I've read a few Japanese stories about wives that change the incentives for their husbands and they stop being drunkards and start being productive. (There's fewer stories the other way, but those exist, too.) Some of these stories are quite creative solutions; maybe something like that would work with your wife.

Don't just stay stuck and miserable, though. There are many ways to defeat the giants.

As a married woman, I’d say leave ASAP. Your mental health is most important to a fulfilling life. People marry the wrong person every day. Divorce is the way out of this situation. Judges are more realistic today about women and their plots. Write down and document everything. Find a couples therapist so you have on record you are trying to make the marriage work for everyone. The therapy will either make your wife “grow up” and perhaps better your relationship or it will show her inability to deal with reality of marriage as a working relationship. Don’t be the guy that hates his life. There is the right person for you out there. Take that first step for your own sanity. Her parents can help her out financially. She knows this too!

You need to change something. Other people have better advice, or at least specifics due to personal experience. But I can see that you are living in resentment and hell. There is no way your relationship with your wife is healthy. You've got a kid right? That child is watching you two and learning what it means to be in a relationship. They pick up on stuff left unsaid, you aren't hiding anything successfully (if you are indeed trying to hide these feelings).

Would you want your child to grow up to feel the way you do now? You're giving them the lesson plan right now.

Get a divorce attorney now, because you'll need one later.

For now, just because you're married doesn't mean you have to have complete sharing of finances. Get your finances completely separate. Create your own bank account; have your salary go there. Cancel any shared credit cards. Lock your credit report so new accounts cannot be made using your social security.

Then, offer to pay 1/2 the mortgage each month; or, better yet, let her pay the full amount from her own wages.

I am also an avid equestrian but support myself and my hobby on my own (which also costs more than my share of the rent). And I have to admit, I feel a bit envious of those who managed to make a fool work and sustain them without caring the smallest amount. But I hope it will bite her back the day you will leave her because you sound too miserable to stay in this relationship.

To what end? There is no award for Longest Suffering Person, just a life of wasted opportunities. The repercussions and coping mechanisms are likely to only get more destructive the longer you put off dealing with misery. May you find your bliss, internet stranger.

> There is no award for Longest Suffering Person, just a life of wasted opportunities.

Welp, I know what I'm going to be lying here thinking about for the next several hours.

You seriously need to consider pulling the rip cord. Life is not worth being a miserable wallet.

You sound pretty miserable, with unempathetic partner you obviously resent, why are you with her?

Feel this comment in my bones bro. Right there with you.

You're in big trouble there, friend. This website may help save your ass http://www.realworlddivorce.com/

Either dump her ass or go 100% OfficeSpace on her and stop caring about being responsible and focus on enjoying life.

How did this happen to you?

Everyone is blind to that which they do not do.

I've seen couples drift apart pretty quickly once their daily experiences diverge.

If she spends all day working at an office, and he spends all day homemaking and with the kids, then each forgets what the other really does.

"The office" becomes an abstract place that someone just goes and isn't stressful at all. "The home" and "the kids" just magically take care of themselves and don't require much work.

Dual income has its own problems, but it seems a healthier default in terms of reminding people that work is... work.

Quarantine and work-from-home has also had an enlightening impact in this regard.

he got married

Watch American beauty. Do that.

You should consider a divorce.

Start converting everything to Monero coin.

I can relate to this but my wife is attractive, smart, honest and loyal so it seems like a fair trade. I earn all the income, do most of the house chores, spend almost nothing on myself, buy her almost everything she wants, move to whatever country she wants to go, I let her win all arguments (including arguments about who does the most chores). Thankfully when she sees me getting overly stressed, she gives me some slack. She even stayed with me after we ran out of money (I say we because we share all bank accounts) - Running out of money is the best test for a relationship.

Jesus, so jealous of you all's wives. I've always worked full time, even made more than my ex and put all my earnings to common family bank account.

My wife is almost 100% consumer and I'm almost 100% producer. She latched on to me the second we met. She initiated. I was a poor and shy college student at the time so it was quite a shock for me to suddenly receive so much attention. It's like she knew something about me that nobody else knew, not even myself. It's like she could see through everything and see the pure productive potential.

If you don't mind me asking, what does your wife spend her time on?

She spends a lot of time at home reading books (mostly non-fiction) and browsing the net (she reads a lot of online articles about a wide range of topics) and chatting with her friends on social media (most of her friends live in different countries because we traveled a lot). We do a lot of outdoor activities together but aside from that she doesn't like to do much. We both spend most of our time at home because I work remotely. She hates working or doing anything productive. She even tried painting once and is good at it but she could never be an artist as she is allergic to the idea of earning money.

That is funny shit! Looks like a spin-off scenario of The Stepford Wives!

From reading your other replies, if you're staying in it for the kids; don't. If my parents were deeply unhappy with each other I'd much prefer they went their separate ways than to suffer through the marriage just for me.

Agreed. Also, you're actually hiding the kid from the support they need by staying married. They're not considered a child of divorced parents, yet they might live the worst lives of all. People who live together but don't like each other aren't exactly good parental role models, and they also hog the opportunity for others (go dating!). Staying together means children don't get the support, and parents don't get the support/ suffocate. If this is happening, do you really think your child is currently getting a fair childhood?

Aren't you and your wife sharing responsibility equally or proportionally at least? It is unfair for one partner to bear the brunt of stress and the other to thrive. Sounds like some compromises need to be made here.

Relationships aren’t 50/50. A common misconception that came along with other great ideas of the 70s like pet rocks.

I can safely say that I feel we're at 50% with bonus of feeling that it's more like 100%/100% :-)

Ironic, coming from someone with such nickname. :)

Relationships aren't 50/50 in each area, but the effort across everything should be similar on both sides. Otherwise someone is taking advantage of their partner, imho.

She feels she is.

Do you let her know that you don't feel the same way?

Yep. She doesn't really care. She says nonsense stuff. Like I should get a different job. But we can't move, so my options are limited. I pay all the bills and would need to take a pay cut if I switched jobs, so we would have to at least sell the current house and move to an much smaller one.

Another good example is that she said I should keep my nice car and keep doing track days when she found out I was going to sell it. Well, were getting married and having a kid. With what money am I expected to do all this? It had to be sold for the budget to work.

You don't have to be a victim. If you earn x, and she earns y, it's perfectly OK in a relationship to get a job that pays only y. I think your wife doesn't want you to be a victim either, maybe she is just not good with finance. You can be happy in a smaller house as well.

"You can be happy in a smaller house as well."

I can be. She complains about our current 1800sf house being too small.

Then she can sell her horse.

Good relationships require clear communication and some semblance of equality.

If you're serious about staying with her, then you need to balance your needs against hers. It's a perfectly valid thing to say "I hate my job. I'm looking for one I enjoy more that pays less. If that happens, I won't be able to pay for your horse. If you want to keep your horse, we need to find a way to balance the budget."

Either she cares about you and has never developed financial muscles, in which case you two can get through with some hard decisions and be happier.

Or she doesn't care about you, and you should split.

(Said as a child of divorce)

You should stop being a victim. You should simply get a lower paying job at a cheap location and remove her from your credit card.

Stand up for yourself!

Too late for that. I'm stuck with this.

It's never too late. Overturning old trends is uncomfortable for sure, but definitely not impossible.

If you control all of the coffers, you should get to choose where you live. Sounds like your relationship is dreadfully unbalanced at the moment.

If I choose where to live, then I will be divorced and have no money and still be stuck in the same area if I want to see my kid at all.

While my wife and I are mostly eye-to-eye on bills, etc., we are in a disagreement on where to live. We live in Texas, a state I loathe. I'm not from here. I grew up in Europe. My wife is from this area. She makes twice what I make. Both of us love the scenery and overall PNW vibe. I have been trying for years to get my wife to move. She finds every excuse in the book. Meanwhile, neither of us are getting younger. Our daughter is graduating HS soon. This leaves a kid in the house for several more years. Once my daughter is off on her own, I suggested being able to downsize (no real opposition there), maybe buy a nice double-wide trailer on our own land (no real opposition), and save money on taxes, etc., in the PNW close to a fairly large conurbation where we could work.

It's tough trying to get someone to see your PoV. Maybe do a spreadsheet with numbers to show her how you could get ahead elsewhere, keeping in mind her hobby. Big houses suck. Literally. Ours is ~2500sf and the upkeep is ridiculous. Maybe sell it as, "we could both do more with our respective hobbies if we had a cheaper outlay every month. We can only be in one room at a time, so having a lavish house is more to impress others than for our own benefit. I encourage you to pursue your hobby (within reason/set a budget maybe). Set a budget for you both outside of essential spending (housing/utilities/medical) and stick to it. I now no longer buy computers. I buy RPis and do things with them. They have a command line. I'm happy. My wife gets her happiness from attending sports games of our children. Her other hobby is gaming. Sell the idea of moving to a cheaper state with less taxes/cheaper property taxes and downsizing but keeping her hobby. It's all about compromise (but not your dignity). Remember, love is not a sentiment or emotion, it's an act of the will. Love wills the good of the other for the other. Find a way to make you both "happy" while giving you both what you want. I'm sure a nice, expensive house with high taxes and ugly upkeep costs would take a back seat to your wife's hobby (at least I would hope it would). Chart it out with numbers and present them. You owe it to yourself to stand up and set the tone, but do so with respect and tangible ideas that you can execute on. Everyone has great ideas, but almost no one can execute on them well.

As someone from the Gulf South who lived in the PNW for most of a decade:

There is a not insignificant chance your Southern wife will be incredibly miserable in the PNW. It is gorgeous and green but it is also grey, and if your wife has not lived in similar conditions before, it is very possible that the lack of Actual Sun will start giving her heavy seasonal depression.

A huge sun lamp will help. So will regular megadoses of vitamin D. But she may be like me and find that even with that, the urge to kill herself gets louder and louder every winter.

I moved back to my very culturally weird Southern birthplace a couple of years ago and that urge completely vanished.

Thank you for the information. Fortunately, we are both overcast lovers, so the SAD angle would likely not play a huge role. Growing up in Europe myself, I prefer 9 months of overcast and rain. I'm at a high risk for skin cancer, so this features into my desire to move as well. For my wife, the primary reason is that her parents are here. She doesn't want to leave them, which I can understand, but at the same time, they are loaded and want for nothing. My parents are long gone, so I have zero attachment to the area other than my wife.

Ah good, I wanted to make sure that angle had been considered. I was super surprised at how insidious it was for me!

Good luck finding a way to make both of you happy with where you live. :)

You might have a reasonable case for custody. Talk to a lawyer.

She's as stuck with you as you are with her. You are allowed to stand up for yourself.

Eh, the courts seem to be notoriously biased, so I doubt she's equally stuck.

No matter how rigged the courts are, it can't be worse than spending 100% of your money taking care of the two of you. You'll still need to stay in the same city for custody, but at least you can switch to a less stressful job.

Also, you should keep your eyes peeled for remote jobs.

"...but at least you can switch to a less stressful job."

Nope, the courts will force child support and probably alimony based on the current job rather than some lower paying job one might get during/after any divorce.

How much lower paying are we talking about here?

Alimony probably isn't going to be a big deal, since I'm assuming by the age of your child you haven't been married for too long.

This is not good advice but as you stuck. Learn to lie and be manipulative.

Bs. You choose to be stuck. Resist.

Not looking to divorce since we have a kid.

At this point you're participating in your own abuse. Your relationship is unbalanced and objectively broken. If you're unwilling to entertain any realistic solutions then you're wasting everyone's time complaining about it.

You should seek out real help, either a therapist or marriage counselor. There's no actual reason for you to stay in your current broken state. Your made up reasons are equal parts bullshit and naivety.

This comment right here %100

I wasn't going to jump into this thread and I don't want to turn this into "Relationship News" but, I feel like I need to let you know.

I grew up with divorced parents who were together longer than they should've been and let me tell you, kids know. They absolutely know when their parents are together but can't stand each other and what's worse, they may assume it's their fault.

And to support you but from the other side:

I grew up with parents who divorced when I was 18 months old when it became clear they did not love each other anymore. But they both wanted the best for me, and didn't do the petty shit I've heard about other couples where they shit-talked each other to the kid or something. They split time with me evenly.

They both eventually got re-married and are very happy and I have no regrets about how my childhood went in that regard.

Seconding. Furthermore, please don't feel like you gotta stay together "for the kid". At least ask the kid whether they care. My parents asked me. I told them I didn't care.

The kid is 2, so they don't really know.

Looks like you are less than 10 years into the marriage. Get out ASAP. You are stuck with alimony for basically half the length of your marriage. Unless it exceeds 10 years. Then you are stuck for life.

I think that varies by state.

Wow, those are some crazy laws. Child support is mandatory around here, and follows well defined rules, but spousal support ("alimony") is much less well defined and (in my limited understanding) less common and shorter lived.

Edit: "around here" being Australia and New Zealand

Know, soon.

Hopefully for them you've sorted this one way or another in the next year or so.

Kids are more perceptive than anyone gives them credit for.

Look get a lower paying job in a cheaper location and move. This will lower your monthly alimony payments.

You are choosing to be a victim here.