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Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by polote on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:22AM (#26077757)
It is the same thing as any other companies in the reviews business. The same can be said of Glassdoor or Yelp for example. As long as a review as an impact on the finance of a company. You can be sure the reviews provider will give ways to remove those reviews.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by gamblor956 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:13PM (#26079973)
Definitely not the same as Yelp.

On Yelp you can buy placement in search results (or on other restaurants' listings in the "Nearby" or "Similar" sections) but they won't remove negative listings for pay. It's certainly possible that individual sales reps will offer that service if they are desperate to hit sales or bonus goals, but Yelp won't actually do it, since the review review team is separate from the sales team.

Source: Personally interviewed nearly a hundred local businesses on behalf of the local Chamber of Commerce.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by 650REDHAIR on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:47PM (#26082201)
I have first-hand experience getting negative Yelp reviews removed.

Nearly impossible if you're a non-paying business on Yelp.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by gamblor956 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:54PM (#26084579)
I didn't say that Yelp didn't remove negative reviews; I said they don't do it in exchange for pay as implied, and comments from actual business owners on this thread, and my first-person experience interviewing almost a hundred businesses as part of an investigation for the local Chamber of Commerce confirm that.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by 650REDHAIR on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:04PM (#26085625)
I am a business owner and I’ve had reviews taken down solely because I was a paying Yelp customer. I’ve had other accounts that were non-paying that couldn’t get fraudulent reviews removed at all.

Yelp is a scam, but you pay the piper because their local SEO is too good.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by duxup on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:46AM (#26079596)
Better Business Bureau too. It's been documented a number of times that when a non member joins suddenly poor ratings will rise / complaints vanish.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by wsinks on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:22PM (#26081993)
Interesting thing to note about the BBB is that it is a federation of independent businesses with loose national control. I understand that to the consumer they look the same, but this argument is a bit disingenuous to compare the BBB, a non-profit weak national entity, with these globally internet focused ratings businesses. Each BBB region has control over only their region.^1

The BBB you might be referencing about is the BBB of LA, which no longer exists and this 2015 article mentions: https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau...

That BBB was then merged into the Silicon Valley BBB, a totally different set of people and operations.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Business_Bureau

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by mywittyname on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:12PM (#26081910)
The BBB perfected this model long before the internet was around. I worked at a computer repair shop way-back-when and the owner called the BBB an extortion racket.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by johng on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:13PM (#26084310)
This. 100%. If you don’t pay the BBB their extortion fee they will tell anyone who asks that “you are not a member in good standing” which is technically true since you are not a member. Because you didn’t pay the fee. Legalized extortion.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by newsclues on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:52AM (#26078131)
Reputation extortion business model
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by koheripbal on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:47AM (#26079610)
Yeah, I'm not sure what's happening on Amazon, but I've noticed that most of my bad reviews never get published or disappear.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by frongpik on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:05PM (#26081834)
The answer is to give a 5 star review, the first paragraph with usual blah blah, the next paragraph with the actual feedback. Even better if you use the coded ways to provide negative feedback. The goal is to make it expensive to distinguish true good reviews from fake good reviews.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by specialist on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @05:34PM (#26083352)
About 1/3rd of my bad reviews are now flagged "sensitive" (belatedly), so no longer normally visible.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by dylan604 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:12PM (#26081904)
Reputation extortion as a service. I get the mental image that this is how the mob has evolved. No longer are knuckle dragging guidos with crooked noses walking door to door in the neighborhoods offering protection services. "It'd be a shame if something were to happen..." but online.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by briffle on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:54AM (#26078149)
at a previous company, HR (or a PR firm they hired) would stuff the ratings with tons of super positive reviews for the company.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by reaperducer on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:40AM (#26079527)
at a previous company, HR (or a PR firm they hired) would stuff the ratings with tons of super positive reviews for the company.

A company I once worked for required employees to post positive reviews of its app, as a condition of employment.

This started shortly after I left, so I'm grateful I never had to deal with that.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by bcrosby95 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @10:38AM (#26078680)
The small company my friend worked for just made all their employees put in a review. While the owners watched.

They were pretty terrible people. Always talking about how they were going to "get rich and leave all of you behind".

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by ficklepickle on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @02:37PM (#26081598)
Wow, that is some next level douchebaggery. That would probably trigger my creative justice instinct.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by istjohn on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:34AM (#26077916)
Actually, Yelp doesn't remove legitimate reviews.

Edit: I speak from personal experience as a small business owner, described in more detail below.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by nix0n on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:43AM (#26078028)
> Actually, Yelp doesn't remove legitimate reviews.

They say that, but they decide which reviews are legitimate, and they're more likely to decide that positive reviews are legitimate, if a business is paying them.

On the other hand, my experience pre-pandemic was that Yelp had the only reliable database of local USA businesses' hours of operation (there is probably now no way to know other than phone calls).

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by londons_explore on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:51AM (#26078114)
Google rings small businesses up every week asking what their hours of operation are...

In fact, I know a business who complained he got more calls from Google trying to update their maps database than he got from real customers!

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by oli-g on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @10:55AM (#26078941)
> Google rings small businesses up every week asking what their hours of operation are...

So THAT'S what all the humans at Google are up to, while their bots are busy locking legitimate user and developer accounts!

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by tveita on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:40PM (#26080349)
Sounds like exactly what they trained Duplex for, so I doubt that would be a human calling.

https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/05/duplex-ai-system-for-natur...

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by softawre on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @02:56PM (#26081760)
Wow that is incredible.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by sandworm101 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:29PM (#26080211)
>>So THAT'S what all the humans at Google are up to

How cute. You think that these are humans calling from google. No biological human has represented google by phone since the 90s. It is all androids and chatbots.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by ficklepickle on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @02:39PM (#26081618)
That's nice they call. I'm aware of a variety of business listings they helpfully automatically update to be wrong. The only way to know is to check back often.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by koheripbal on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:51AM (#26079669)
Google emails that - they don't call.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by istjohn on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @10:07AM (#26078292)
> They say that, but they decide which reviews are legitimate, and they're more likely to decide that positive reviews are legitimate, if a business is paying them.

Do you have any evidence of that?

I have several unsolicited 5-star reviews for my business that have been flagged as "not currently recommended." Yet despite fighting off their sales reps for years my business is the best rated business in my city in my category.

Based on my experience, the Yelp hate is just sour grapes from businesses that are reluctant to bend over backwards to make every customer happy.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by dexterdog on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:11AM (#26079171)
> sour grapes from businesses that are reluctant to bend over backwards to make every customer happy.

Not too many business that do that stay in business for long. "The customer is always right" if not taken with many grains of salt will bury you when you get just the right customer (who will directly reference the mantra).

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by istjohn on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @01:57PM (#26081231)
It's certainly a challenging way to run a business. I don't recommend anyone blindly pursue that strategy.

One key to making it work is to invest in long term relationships with your clients. A transaction with a client you have an established relationship with is much less risky than a transaction with a stranger.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by totalZero on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:35PM (#26080293)
This has been discussed previously on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1149078

Not sure if the policies have changed since then, but I am inclined to believe him.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by dilyevsky on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:56PM (#26080525)
Just bc this one person didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. They’ve definitely taken my negative reviews down or made them invisible so I stopped using them
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by totalZero on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @05:23PM (#26083213)
Just because they took your reviews down doesn't mean they did so corruptly rather than according to algorithm/policy.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by dilyevsky on Sunday February 14, 2021 @05:34PM (#26136929)
Right the algorithm ofc takes “fairness” and “user experience” as its training inputs no doubt
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by gamblor956 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:16PM (#26080027)
It's bizarre that the one person with actual experience in this thread is being downvoted...

But I second this. Yelp won't remove legitimate reviews, even for paying businesses. You can pay for priority in search listings and to show up in the Similar and Nearby sections, but that won't help you get negative reviews removed.

As I speak, there are 2.5 star restaurants being promoted in every search I do for nearby restaurants. If Yelp removed the negative reviews as people claimed, they wouldn't be at 2.5 stars right now.

(It's true that some individual sales reps claim Yelp will do this if you pay them, but those are individual sales reps trying to hit a sales or bonus goal.)

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by aSockPuppeteer on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @02:28PM (#26081520)
Yelp removes any post legitimate or not if you have zero “friends” on Yelp and if you have no profile picture iirc.

On the business side all I’ve heard from Yelp Business was that they will let more bad reviews slide thus lowering your rating if you do not pay for their protection racket. Also, paying them gives good reviews that would otherwise be rejected now allowed as acceptable.

Maybe those businesses were not paying for the “premium” service tier that includes Yelp sending a photographer to your business to then create a video for you with an annual plan.

I have managed restaurants and talked to several Yelp reps. It’s difficult to trust online reviews.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by gamblor956 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:48PM (#26084545)
Yelp removes any post legitimate or not if you have zero “friends” on Yelp and if you have no profile picture iirc.

That's definitely wrong, as my Yelp profile has zero friends and no profile picture, and all of my reviews are still up, when viewing the businesses logged out, across multiple devices using different IP addresses.

I have managed restaurants and talked to several Yelp reps.

I have spoken to restaurants on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce investigating this issue, and found no evidence that these claims are true.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by mywittyname on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:16PM (#26081946)
>Yelp won't remove legitimate reviews,

I've had my legitimate Yelp reviews shadow-removed (I could see the review on the computer it was made on, but not others). So they absolutely did at one point remove/hide reviews.

-person with actual experience

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by mancerayder on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @01:39PM (#26081031)
.. and people are saying that Glassdoor reviews can easily be taken down, without evidence.

It might be true, but a claim that undermines the entire business.. warrants at least a link or an anecdote.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by polote on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:39AM (#26077981)
In theory the same can be said of glassdoor. In reality it is different
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by istjohn on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:56AM (#26078169)
In reality, Yelp doesn't play games with reviews. I became the top-rated business in my city for my niche while turning down their sales people over and over. I successfully got one review removed in that time because it was clearly a spam account based on their review history. I have several legitimate 5-star reviews from actual happy customers on my business profile that "are not currently recommended" due to Yelp's aggressive anti-cheat software. There are plenty of unhappy business owners who would have people believe their poor Yelp ratings are because the game is rigged, and I'm sure Yelp makes plenty of mistakes, but it is not pay-to-win.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by Retric on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:03PM (#26079832)
That’s not a counter argument. I was once the top rated player on a pay to win game server without having paid anything. The issue with pay to win in games and online reviews is the distortion not the impossibility of success.

Yelp etc needs the average review to be somewhat useful so people actually trusts the Star ratings. However, they can still accomplish that while distorting a significant number of reviews.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by istjohn on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @02:17PM (#26081417)
This thread is full of people with no first-hand experience repeating rumors and suspicions. No, I cannot prove a negative, but I don't think speculation is compelling evidence either.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by Retric on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @03:54PM (#26082266)
Yelp has successfully defended it’s self from several such lawsuits, on the other hand it’s also been sued several times over this. So, it’s a little past just internet rumors.

The simple fact Yelp lets companies pay to highlight a favorable review is IMO enough to destroy their credibility. Worse they directed customers through GrubHub for an unearned commission which is as far as I can tell simple fraud. But, that’s not what people are alleging here.

Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by vinay_ys on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:48AM (#26079623)
This is as good an use-case for a decentralized blockchain as any.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by tsimionescu on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @02:44PM (#26081664)
Agreed - it's a bad use-case for a decentralized block chain, like all of the other uses brought up so far.
Re:Man to pay £25,000 ($34,000) damages over negative TrustP... by ForHackernews on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @12:50PM (#26080457)
How would that fix the problem of spammy reviews?