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Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by eloff on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:03PM (#25982548)
Wow, how has nobody noticed this before? This looks seriously rotten:

> Michigan-based entrepreneur Robert Simpson decided to see what would happen if he bought the entire stock of one company. Using a single broker, within a couple of days Simpson had paid a little over $5,000 for 1,285,050 shares in OTC bulletin board property-development company Global Links. According to Simpson, these shares were delivered into his account shortly afterwards. Yet the following day 37,044,500 Global Links shares were traded on the bulletin board. The next day, 22,471,000 shares were traded. On neither day had Simpson traded a single Global Link share, he insists. And events surrounding Simpson's investments became yet more confusing. Global Links had only ever issued 1,158,064 shares. Simpson had managed to acquire 126,986 shares that did not exist. How he had managed to be sold more shares than were in issuance is exactly the question Simpson hoped his foray would raise.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by fractionalhare on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:06PM (#25982566)
It was noticed. The SEC even had data supporting Global Links' claims. This incident is almost 16 years old and was later investigated by the SEC.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by eloff on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:09PM (#25982591)
So do you know what was the outcome then? Are there mechanisms to prevent this now? Did the players involved get fined?
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by fractionalhare on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:13PM (#25982615)
I don't know the outcome of their investigation on this specific incident, and I can't (quickly) find it. But I know the SEC made a few changes in the mid - late 2000s as a result of naked short selling rising to mainstream awareness: https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2009/2009-172.htm. It became a pretty big point of discussion for regulating Wall Street which was amplified in the fallout of the 2008 financial crisis.

As far as outcomes go, there is this testimony from the SEC chair circa 2010: http://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-docs/2010...

> In July 2009, the Commission adopted a rule which requires that “fails to deliver” in all equity securities be promptly closed out. “Fails to deliver” may, among other things, be indicative of potentially abusive “naked” short selling. “Naked” short selling, which is not per se illegal, occurs when a short seller does not borrow securities in time to make delivery. Sellers may intentionally fail to deliver as part of a scheme to manipulate the price of a security or possibly to avoid borrowing costs. Data indicates that since the fall of 2008, fails to deliver in all equity securities have declined by 63.4 percent, and fails to deliver in securities with persistent and large levels of fails to deliver have declined by 80.5 percent.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by mcgoo on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:56PM (#25982939)
If I recall, both stock and option market makers were allowed to fail to deliver, which would typically be cheaper than cost of borrowing, which made it another good source of edge that was unavailable to non-market makers.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by oa335 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:29PM (#25983717)
Last I checked they were still subject to delivery requirements, but had a substantially longer time to find the shares (10 days iirc).
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by fapjacks on Monday February 01, 2021 @04:33AM (#25987106)
Twenty-one days versus three for everybody else. But it's also possible to turn a naked short into a disclosed short via a naked call option (which also is not backed by an actual share).
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by totalZero on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @07:27PM (#26021104)
> it's also possible to turn a naked short into a disclosed short via a naked call option (which also is not backed by an actual share)

This is called a reset transaction, and it is not permitted.

Assuming that XYZ is a hard to borrow security, and that Trader A, or its broker-dealer, is unable (or unwilling) to borrow shares to make delivery on the short sale of actual shares, the short sale may result in a fail to deliver position at Trader A’s clearing firm. Rather than paying the borrowing fee on the shares to make delivery, or unwinding the position by purchasing the shares in the market, Trader A might next enter into a trade that gives the appearance of satisfying the broker-dealer’s close-out requirement, but in reality allows Trader A to maintain its short position without ever delivering on the short sale. Most often, this is done through the use of a buy-write trade, but may also be done as a married put and may incorporate the use of short term FLEX options. These trades are commonly referred to as “reset transactions,” in that they have the effect of resetting the time that the broker-dealer must purchase or borrow the stock to close-out a fail. The transactions could be designed solely to give the appearance of delivering the shares, when in reality the trader has no intention of meeting his delivery obligations. The buy-writes may be (but are not always) prearranged trades between market- makers or parties claiming to be market makers. The price in these transactions is determined so that the short seller pays a small price to the other market-maker for the trade, resulting in no economic benefit to the short seller for the reset transaction other than to give the appearance of meeting his delivery obligations. Such transactions were alleged by the Commission to be sham transactions in recent enforcement cases. Such transactions between traders or any market participants have also been found to constitute a violation of a clearing firm’s responsibility to close out a failure to deliver.

https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/options-trading-risk-...

(Start at the bottom of Page 7)

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by toast0 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:20PM (#25983155)
I don't know the specific outcome of this case. However, naked short selling is now prohibited by SEC regulation SHO, except for by 'bona fide market makers'. Broker/dealers have an obligation to fix failure to deliver by their clients with specific timelines; etc.

Bona fide market makers have an exception, because their business is to always be being buying and selling around market prices, and in a market with lots of buy interest and less sell interest, they may need to sell more shares than they normally hold. Market makers still need to have the shares in time for settlement, which may require borrowing if they have net sales more than holdings in a given day, but they don't need to locate shares to borrow before selling. Market makers are given an exception, because liquidity is valued, and they need to be registered and have specific capital requirements etc.

TL;DR, naked short selling isn't a thing anymore. There's been no reports of Gamestop shorts being naked shorts, and no reports of shares failing to deliver on time. Naked shorting isn't required for short interest to be over 100%.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by sweettea on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:29PM (#25983239)
You might take aa look at the SEC's December reports of fail-to-delivers, before the GME rocket lit: there were three days with over a million shares failed to be delivered, and several more weeks with over .5%. WSB had a post encouraging everyone to file a SEC report over this back then.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by fractionalhare on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:20PM (#25983631)
You should cite the posts and resources you've mentioned, because there are a variety of caveats that approximately all the posts on WSB misinterpret. People will fly by a comment like this and just repeat it without any fact checking.

The very page you describe specifically states that you can't infer when failures to deliver occurred because the data is reported in aggregate with no age statistics. [1]

Moreover failures to deliver can occur on both the long and short side, and do not necessarily represent that a naked short sale occurred. [2] And when they are associated with a naked short sale, it may still be legitimate. Market makers are legally allowed to engage in naked short sales to facilitate liquidity, and if they can't fulfill the borrow in time (which would itself happen for legitimate reasons), that failure to deliver would also be reported.

Finally - reporting an increase in apparent naked sales to the SEC by gesturing towards data on the SEC website doesn't make sense. The SEC is definitionally aware of it. There may not be an active investigation, but these kinds of datapulls are pretty manual and staffed by people familiar with the data.

1. https://www.sec.gov/data/foiadocsfailsdatahtm

2. https://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/regsho.htm

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by CTDOCodebases on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:59PM (#25984386)
Regarding the data in question you are completely right but the unusually high numbers reported suggest possible naked short selling or a systematic lack of liquidity for that particular stock.

If what’s going on is naked short selling by those who are not market makers then it’s illegal and those who are doing it need to be prosecuted.

If what’s going on is due to a lack of liquidity then it suggest that price manipulation could be occurring in the form of excessive coordinated short selling.

Finally - why assume a government agency is competent and has the means and resources required to act in a timely manner? The issue was reported though. [0]

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/kr98ym/gme_...

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dragonwriter on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:29PM (#25984918)
> Finally - why assume a government agency is competent and has the means and resources required to act in a timely manner?

That's not the assumption.

The assumption is that facts manually assembled and reported by a government agency are already within the knowledge of that agency, so even if they don't have “the means and resources required to act in a timely manner”, you aren't helping by reporting those facts back to them.

(This may also be an unwarranted assumption , but it's a different assumption than you describe. I've definitely in the past—on behalf of a different government agency—frequently been involved in reporting facts assembled by one office of a government agency to the parties responsible for acting on that information in another office of the same agency who hadn't been informed of it.)

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by emmelaich on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:22PM (#25984119)
Your words aren't that reassuring, since this is the same SEC that failed to find Madhoff's Ponzi scheme.[0]

> since 1992, there had been six investigations of Madoff by the SEC, which were botched either through incompetent staff work or by neglecting allegations of financial experts and whistle-blowers

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by fractionalhare on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:16PM (#25984479)
Sure, but I'm not trying to be reassuring. I'm trying to encourage healthy skepticism of random claims on the internet.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by emmelaich on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:14PM (#25984850)
Your comments are appreciated!
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dmlittle on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:33PM (#25983270)
My understanding is that the following situation can lead to a short interest of over 100%. Let's imagine a hypothetical world where there exists 1 share of a particular company and it is owned by Person A. Person B then borrows the share from Person A and sells it to Person C (this is the first short). Person C now owns 1 share and Person A doesn't have a share but is contractually obligated to receive 1 share from Person B at a certain point in time in the future. Person D then borrows the share from Person C and sells it to Person E (this is the second short). Even though there only exists 1 share the short interest in this case is 200%.

Now there are obvious reasons as to why this isn't a smart thing to do as recent events with GME show but it's not necessarily illegal (as far as I know). If this is actually not true or it's illegal somebody please correct me.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by cecilpl2 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:33PM (#25984587)
This is possible, not illegal, and can be simplified even further.

It's entirely possible for me to borrow a share from you, (short) sell it back to you, and then for us to repeat that process an unlimited number of times, thereby shorting an unlimited amount of stock. This would be stupid since I'd owe you more stock than exists and you could set any price you wanted for them.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by ineedasername on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:55PM (#25985024)
Both parties could each do it with 500 shares. Then they'd each also owe each other the same amount.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by bhk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:45PM (#25985306)
With the total long position > 100% of issued shares, who gets denied voting rights?
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dmlittle on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:54PM (#25985354)
Whomever is the holder record has the voting rights. If you gave your stock to someone to facilitate a short you lose your voting rights until that position is closed. You can read more about it here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/shortsalevotingr...
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by KMag on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:34PM (#25985570)
It looks like nesting got too deep, but for bkh, you are correct.

> In this case, they retain a fraction or none of their voting rights, I presume?

If you have a margin account and want to vote with your shares, you need to let your broker know prior to the vote, so they can be sure and not have your shares loaned out when they're figuring out everyone's voting shares.

Some time prior to 2010, I heard some heads rolled at my firm because such a request was screwed up for a major client, and they had fewer votes than expected for some important vote.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by bhk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:14PM (#25985459)
> If you gave your stock to someone to facilitate a short you lose your voting rights...

Individuals do not loan stock for shorting, generally. But they do sometimes have margin accounts (for unrelated reasons), and this allows the broker to loan their shares out without their knowledge. In this case, they retain a fraction or none of their voting rights, I presume?

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by blackrock on Monday February 01, 2021 @02:47AM (#25986507)
Does your broker automatically loan out your shares?

Or must you manually opt in, to allow it to be loaned out for shorting?

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by darumderum on Monday February 01, 2021 @09:04AM (#25988748)
Some of them (or most?), but not in your favor. They will keep the profit
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by KMag on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:27PM (#25985529)
On a side note, if you want to vote with your shares and have a margin account, you need to let your brokerage know in advance of the shareholder meeting, so they can get those loaned shares back to you in time to vote. Otherwise, the shares showing up in your account may or may not actually be there on the day for you to vote.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by femto113 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:10PM (#25983063)
There were some compounding factors for this situation, in particular a reverse split.

"Global Links was caught off guard by the events that transpired in February 2005 when it implemented a one-for-350 reverse split of its stock, the result of which would reduce its float from 350 million shares to 1.1 million. ... Some have said it is all a simple matter of broker error. Accounts showing 350,000 old shares of Global Links should have been adjusted by the broker to show 350 [sic, should be 1000?] of the new shares, but some have said that didn't happen"

https://www.forbes.com/2006/08/25/naked-shorts-global-links-...

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by rwmj on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:42PM (#25982838)
I think the more interesting part of the story (if I'm reading it right) is he paid $5000 to completely own a company with millions in assets.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by sn_master on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:45PM (#25982861)
Not sure about this case, but owning all trading shares doesn't mean owning the company. A company may have only 2% of its value as public shares and the rest owned by the company itself.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by rblatz on Monday February 01, 2021 @12:53AM (#25985969)
But with all the hassle of reporting earnings and being publicly traded it would have surely been cheaper for the company to buy back those shares.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by sn_master on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:22AM (#25988027)
Not always. Saudi Aramco went public with only 1.5% of their value, and that was 25 Billion dollars, a good amount by any measure, specially useful when you need $$$ for weapons for your war in Yemen.

Besides the money, they also wanted to test the waters before going in with a larger percentage and I don't know if the market could have handled a new 1.7 Trillion dollar company joining all at once.

https://www.investopedia.com/what-is-saudi-aramco-4682590

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by koolba on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:12PM (#25983092)
If you own all the shares then you can control the company via voting control. That’d generally allow you to prevent the issuance of new shares and you could hand pick the board as their terms expire. It’s not immediate, but you’d eventually be in control of everything.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by brockwhittaker on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:20PM (#25983156)
Not all shares have voting power, and even so the voting power of those shares (if they were 2% of the company for example) may be proportionally tiny compared to the founders/board/execs.

For example shareholders don't have any control at FB, since Mark controls 51% of the voting power.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by YZF on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:35PM (#25983765)
It's fairly unusual to have companies with this sort of structure. Why would you ever buy shares in a company that doesn't pay dividends and where you can get infinitely diluted and have no control? (other than for speculative reasons)
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by astrange on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:31PM (#25984572)
Discounted future cash flow includes all of dividends, possible future acquisition, and greater fools buying it from you. The last one being what drives Tesla and cryptos.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by phonon on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:29PM (#25985216)
NYSE: SNAP ("Snapchat") listed shares have no voting rights, and they seem to be doing okay.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by bhk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:51PM (#25985341)
And GOOG seems to be doing okay.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by entangledqubit on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:35PM (#25985573)
Amusingly, the voting shares are currently worth less than the nonvoting.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by sn_master on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:39AM (#25988099)
I just checked and you are right (1835 vs 1827). Funnily, there is this:

"but unlike common shares, they do not confer voting rights to shareholders. As a result, these shares tend to trade at a discount to Class-A shares. "

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052615/whats-differ...

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by bhk on Monday February 01, 2021 @02:12AM (#25986366)
They should issue a class of shares that are guaranteed to never pay a dividend or be redeemable for anything. Maybe they will trade even higher!
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by recursive on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:59PM (#25983961)
Maybe the future potential of dividends?
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by echelon on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:27PM (#25984155)
> doesn't pay dividends

Tech/growth doesn't pay dividends as dividends are a signal your business is done growing. Dividend companies would rather return capital to investors than place more bets and keep growing.

Tech and growth stocks have minted many millionaires. And sometimes overnight.

This is also why growth companies sometimes don't reach profitability. They're spending their revenue eating the rest of the market and gaining monopoly.

> no control?

People that invested in Facebook made lots of money. They were probably fine with the arrangement. If they stop being fine with it, the stock price will decline.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by ineedasername on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:57PM (#25985038)
If you own all of the voting shares sure. But a company can have 100,000,000 shares, own 99,000,000 of them, so only 1,000,000 are trading. If you buy all 1,000,000 of those shares you don't have much power.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dragonwriter on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:00PM (#25985050)
If you have 100% of the outstanding shares, you have 100% of the voting rights; treasury stock doesn't vote.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by tylerhou on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:34PM (#25985243)
I think the above commenter was trying to say: you can't always own 100% of the outstanding shares with voting rights, because in most cases insiders hold many shares that they will not sell.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by ineedasername on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:33PM (#25985236)
No, someone could own the entire float of Facebook shares, and Zuckerberg still has a majority of the voting rights.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dragonwriter on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:42PM (#25985293)
That's about two classes of outstanding stock with different rights held by different group of stockholders, not about stock held by the issuing company.

That's not the hypothetical that was posed.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by stale2002 on Monday February 01, 2021 @03:50AM (#25986836)
So then you agree that there could be situations where only a couple percent of the ownership of a company is available on the market, and if you buy all of those shares, then you would not control the company?

As in, you agree than a couple insiders could control a large majority of a company, and that this percentages of the company would not be on the open market, and therefore even if you buy all of the shares that are available on the open market (and the definition that I am using would disclude these shares owned by these insiders), you would not control the company?

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dragonwriter on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:36AM (#25987453)
> So then you agree that there could be situations where only a couple percent of the ownership of a company is available on the market, and if you buy all of those shares, then you would not control the company?

Sure, it's possible that at any given time people aren't offering to sell a majority of the voting power of stock, or (theoretically, at least) any voting stock at all (it's even possible that the only class of stock trading on the market is nonvoting; SNAP I think does that.)

I was taking issue with the particular claim, made twice in the direct chain of ancestry of this comment, that a company could simply hold the majority of it's voting stock itself, so that holding 100% of the shares not owned by the company would not give you control since the company itself (presumably, it's management) would exercise most of the voting rights. It doesn't work that way.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by ineedasername on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:12PM (#25985448)
Fair enough, but your comment wasn't phrased specific to that example, it was a general statement about owning 100% of outstanding shares: If you have 100% of the outstanding shares, you have 100% of the voting right

Let's chalk it up to a miscommunication.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dragonwriter on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:17PM (#25985471)
“Outstanding shares” has a specific meaning: all authorized and issued non-treasury shares.

If you have 100% of them, you have all voting rights.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by VBprogrammer on Monday February 01, 2021 @04:39AM (#25987148)
I mean, this has to be true right? Otherwise the stock market doesn't function as shared ownership, it would be more like Kickstarter at scale with no recourse for failure to deliver.

Plenty of takeovers have been conducted on the open market, even without consent of the board, also known as a hostile takeover.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by sn_master on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:03AM (#25987918)
Class B shares with no voting rights have been a thing for a long time. When the US government bailed out the banks in 2008, they made sure to buy only Class B shares, so no one could claim the government nationalized the banks and put them under their control, rather they just injected capital.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/classbshares.asp

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by phyalow on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:16PM (#25985129)
You are both right, but you are missing the point. It is entirely possible for controlling interests to be held in other classes of shares (or even common), that is not counted in the FREE float available to trade.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by Ntrails on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:21PM (#25983164)
Owning a controlling share, and owning company are not the same thing - even from a simple net worth point of view.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by Lazare on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:11PM (#25984044)
There's some more info here: https://www.forbes.com/2006/08/25/naked-shorts-global-links-...

Global Links was trading around 10c a share with ~350 million shares, for a market cap of around $35 million. They implemented a 350:1 reverse share split, which in theory should have resulted in them having a stock price of $35, 1.1 million shares, and a market cap of around $35 million.

For some reason, it took longer for this to shake out than expected; in the immediate aftermath it was reported that enormous quantities of Global Links stock was still trading, and the share price had actually declined to a 8 cents.

Presumably, some systems were reporting "old" numbers (pre reverse split) and some "new" numbers (post reverse split), and I'm sure an enormous amount of confusion resulted. And it was at this point Simpson reckons he bought 1.2 million shares for a bit over $5,000.

That's less than 1/3 of a cent per share, which seems wildly off (the share price was 10 cents pre reverse split, and would have been expected to be $35 afterwards), but given that it seems a lot of computer systems were not handling this correctly, who knows what he was told by his broker?

So...obviously Simpson did not purchase 110% of a company, and he definitely didn't do so for 0.01% of its market cap. I rather assume his broker had told him that he had done so, but that seems like fodder for a lawsuit between him and his broker over their buggy systems, but it doesn't tell us much else. It's possible he might have ended up owning 3.6k shares (about 1/3 of a percent of the company), but even that seems doubtful if it actually only cost him $5k.

Anyhow:

> I think the more interesting part of the story (if I'm reading it right) is he paid $5000 to completely own a company with millions in assets.

I think the better reading of that is some guy found a bug in a broker's system that caused it to tell him he'd done that, but it would have been obvious to all concerned that whether he'd ended up with 0 shares, ~140 shares, or ~3.5k shares, he definitely didn't have 1.2m shares, since they never even existed.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by phlo on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:32AM (#25987735)
Just looking at the numbers here, this could just be a case of a sign getting flipped somewhere along the way.

Global Links intends to do a reverse split, replacing 350 old shares (worth 10¢ each) with one new share (worth about $35). For the sake of argument, let's say they mixed up the ratio in their split filing. Instead of doing a reverse split, they do a forward split, replacing each share of old stock (10¢) with 350 shares of new stock (about one third of a cent, each). The shares trade at a somewhat high volume, because each share is worth a fraction of a cent.

Simpson notices that, after a 350:1 reverse split, Global Links ought to have about 1M shares outstanding.¹ He also notices that the current trading price is a fraction of a cent. Small enough to make this a worthwhile experiment. He acquires about 1.2M shares without moving the price too much. He also doesn't question how this was possible to happen within a day or two.

After the split, Global Links has some 100B shares outstanding. Simpson's position of 1.2M is less than one percent of that, so the shares continue trading as before.

¹ He might be combining multiple sources of information here. Perhaps his brokerage doesn't show reference data, so he combines the price he sees in his brokerage's app with reference data from Yahoo!finance or something.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by Lazare on Monday February 01, 2021 @09:00AM (#25988722)
Yes, that's a good observation.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by njharman on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:01PM (#25982973)
> own a company

No "owned the publicly traded shares of a company". Those shares are almost certainly non-ownership, voting shares. And if they are it's possible/probable that founders/investors/others hold an arbitrarily large multiple of traded shares or options for shares or convertible bonds or whatever.

What he owns is (somewhere in the line of creditors) the right to some part of assets if it's dissolved (sold, enters bankruptcy) exact triggers and rights are complex and varied.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by psychlops on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:04PM (#25982995)
> What he owns is (somewhere in the line of creditors) the right to some part of assets if it's dissolved (sold, enters bankruptcy) exact triggers and rights are complex and varied.

After all liabilities are deducted. Which usually means nothing.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by FabHK on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:43PM (#25983826)
He owned the equity, and therefore theoretically had control over its management. The firm might still have a lot of debt, so be owned largely by banks (or bond holders).

Firm value = equity ("market cap") + debt + various, see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_value

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by caminante on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:05PM (#25984814)
> He owned the equity, and therefore theoretically had control over its management.

Except, for example, if there were different share classes with voting rights or if the "float" is small [0].

[0] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/basics/03/030703.asp

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by m3kw9 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:33PM (#25984203)
Outstanding vs float will tell you this may not be be possible
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by pantalaimon on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:44PM (#25982851)
is that really how it works?
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by londons_explore on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:47PM (#25982872)
Yes, but it's possible the company also had a bigger debt than assets and no hope of turning things around...
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by VBprogrammer on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:46PM (#25982866)
Unless there was something fishy about the share classes. Non-voting shares perhaps?
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:09PM (#25983060)
His broker lent the stock back out. This is one more way brokers make a living: charging rent for shares lent to shorts.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by tempestn on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:07PM (#25983529)
The broker needs your agreement to lend out stock. Generally that's only part of the agreement for margin accounts, not cash accounts.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:23PM (#25984129)
I thought most of the online brokers had it by default now? Isn't it part of the "no commission but we do literally anything else to make a buck" business model?

If not then he either doesn't own all the stock or there is some fraud here. As it is, it's the simplest explanation and one he hasn't ruled out. So he needs to check there first. It's possible they lent it by mistake or he agreed as part of the 10,000 page T&C he signed when he joined...

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by tempestn on Monday February 01, 2021 @02:34AM (#25986453)
Perhaps now. I'm in Canada so don't know the details of the Robin Hoods and such. The OP is from 2005 though.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:01AM (#25987582)
It's interesting. I'm a limey brit (sorry, I should have said sooner), brokers here were always able to lend stock without involving the owner. It's one of the reasons that brokers here have always been pretty cheap. It also helped Unit Trusts (ETFs etc who can do the same) take off quickly here.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by ketamine__ on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:25PM (#25983199)
So what would have happened if he sold them all at the same time?
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:36PM (#25983305)
His broker can recall the lent stock, so they'd recall it and have it sent to whoever bought it on their/his behalf.

I worked on a computer system to handle all this for a while. It was front office so as well as buy/sell transactions we had to process lend/return and borrow/return actions to actually understand the company position.

Within each of those are lend request messages with approval/declines etc.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by esrauch on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:41PM (#25983809)
I don't understand how this can work. The broker loans the share to person B. Person B sells the share to person C (as B wants to short the stock). How can the Broker recall the share: they have no relationship with the current owner of the stock. Even if the broker demanded B rebuy a share to return the stock, since the original guy owner all liquid shares, it would only take one other share holder to holdout to make the share return impossible.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:17PM (#25984086)
The Broker calls Person B. Person B has 1 day to get the share back or they're in default. It's up to Person B to buy back from whoever is selling at whatever price they want.

It is possible for short sellers to get caught as you describe (someone owns all the stock and they have bought 1 additional share and now wont sell). But it's very rare. It requires a few things to all happen at the same time:

* 1 person has to own all the stock. This in itself is very unusual. In many jurisdictions there are a whole bunch of extra requirements once you own more than X%.

* Someone has to want to short the company. If it's small enough to be owned entirely by 1 person, it's probably too small to attract short sellers or to be lent. Unless someone BOTH wants to short this small stock, AND happens to know the broker in question has some, no one knows who to ask to borrow it.

* They have to short it over 100%. This is unlikely, since a small company that's been bought entirely by 1 person, who is left to buy more? The market is one sided as apparently the only buyer is the guy holding 100% already (if anyone else bought those shares, they could sell them back to the shorter).

It's really really rare.

Technically the short seller defaults when they cannot source the stock, he has to absorb whatever losses he's caused the broker.

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by esrauch on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:13PM (#25984462)
But as the original stock holder what happens when if the loanee defaults? The broker just calls you up and says "you had the share in your account but we lost it, here's some money for your troubles?"

It seems like the holder wouldn't care if they were just selling it, but if you were transferring the stock out to another brokerage, they just give you the alleged ask price of the shares (which actually doesn't exist because the shares are illiquid) because they made a mistake and lost your shares?

I also find this confusing for voting rights: if my brokerage is loaning out my shares without my knowledge, then I don't actually have the voting rights that I think I do, since the share is actually held by someone else?

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:06AM (#25987606)
>The broker just calls you up and says "you had the share in your account but we lost it, here's some money for your troubles?"

Pretty much.

Devils advocate: if you know you own all the stock, and someone offers to sell you stock, you know the deal cannot actually be completed. So at best you're owed your money back for the "extra" stock you "bought".

If you own 101% you should know you cannot actually transfer or vote that stock extra 1%, it's simply not possible. All 101% means is if the stock goes up, you get 101% of the gains.

Fyi, times when votes are happening are interesting for shorted stock because a not insignificant percentage of the stock does get recalled so owners can vote it. So short sellers have to reduce their positions and then increase them again. It is one way to try and estimate short-seller impact in the stock...

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by esrauch on Monday February 01, 2021 @03:16PM (#25993234)
Thanks for clarifying. It seems like this should be a problem for cases where not just one person owns all the stock but for any fairly illiquid stock: if someone holds 40% of outstanding shares, the brokerage loans it and then it's sold, if there's some kind of takeover or aggressive purchase then it seems like a collection of others who now hold 61% and aren't listing their shares would also cause this "lost share", right?

Isn't this also a loophole that can be used to "steal" stock from someone who otherwise doesn't want to sell: their share is loaned by their broker to B who sells it to you, and then you just refuse to sell it back to be returned, and some random middle man is on the hook and you've managed to purchase shares that weren't for sale?

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by LatteLazy on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:17PM (#25994838)
I think you could definately use it to acquire shares that were not truly for sale.

You have to be a pretty big organisation and post a lot of collateral to borrow and sell stock. It's also assumed you'll sell it on exchange, if you do so you don't know the buyer though I guess you could arrange it? So a really sneaky player willing to sacrifice a lot of collateral could probably do it.

I think the main safety catch here is that if you hold a significant percentage of a company and you want those voting rights, talk to your broker to make sure its not lent without your knowledge...

I wonder if this has ever happened?

Edit:

I spent some time googling and found this:

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-a-short-seller-who-can...

It's quora but it seems pretty good. It does seem that if it's lent and not returned you get cash or wait for some to become available. Sucks if you wanted to vote the shares...

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by ineedasername on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:26PM (#25985199)
They still recall them from person B, who has no choice but to buy them at whatever price is available to cover their position.
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by esrauch on Monday February 01, 2021 @03:29PM (#25993411)
There are realistic scenarios here where the liquidity of a stock can't cover the short though, as in there being not enough shares listed for sale at any ask price.

I understand shorts are said to be unbounded risk, but surely there's some escape hatch: if the top hedge fund shorted 30% of some penny stock presumably a competitor that buys out 71% of shares doesn't get to take over the whole hedge fund by only selling that last share back at a price of 100% of the funds value: instead the fund will default on their recall responsibility and pay out some reasonable amount (and some true end stock holder just surprise loses their share?)

Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by WanderPanda on Monday February 01, 2021 @02:24AM (#25986417)
Wow this is infuriating! We are living in a world where nothing is real and everything is an IoU
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by cush on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:55PM (#25983440)
Were you able to access the entire article? I can only see page 1 of 6
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by bredren on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:31PM (#25983726)
Re:Naked shorting: The curious incident of the shares that d... by dang on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:30PM (#25984571)