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Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:40PM (#25888097)
Go to Airgas and buy a 40# argon tank meant for welding. Thirty seconds will displace the air in a nearly empty wine bottle threefold. The tank will last years.

One stops worrying about bottle boundaries. One buys magnums. ("A difficult size, too much for one but not enough for two.") There is a faint mellowing effect by the next day, but nothing like the effect of oxygen.

We sometimes deliberately skip argon. In Italy you know you're tight when friends serve yesterday's wine. Those wines need the abuse. Most wines don't handle the abuse of an open day well.

Scale matters. There are $300 units made of cheap plastic aimed at wine "connoisseurs". The cartridge is the same size I'd carry mountain biking, to fill one inner tube on an emergency basis. That's supposed to last 50 bottles? How stupid does the manufacturer think I am?

Yes, argon is heavier than air, but there's this thing called diffusion. There's argon in the air around us; if argon cleanly separated from air and formed a bottom layer, we'd all suffocate when we lay on the floor. Obviously, we don't. Put it together.

I'm reminded of Thomas Keller's Bouchon Bakery cookbook taking heat for proposing 350 ml of water for bread steam, poured onto 30 lbs of thermal mass such as an aluminum disk in a cake pan. That also generates enough steam to displace the volume of an oven threefold. A commercial bread oven depends on serious steam for the first few minutes; this is a home approximation. People liked the idea of spritzing 10 ml of water from a plant spritzer, and were offended Keller did the science. They were just genuflecting.

One can wait months to obtain medical grade argon. It's the same process, only tested to confirm the fact that the process doesn't introduce toxins.

My wife is a practical engineer; she indulges every exploration like this. Some take. This one took. A standard after-dinner question is "Did you argon the wine?"

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by parhamn on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:03PM (#25888261)
Off topic, but, do you blog? This comment led me to quickly read some of your priors (something I rarely do) and you have some good stories/experiences. Kinda blog I’d like reading
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:08PM (#25888728)
Thank you? The place I pontificate the most, where I understand my audience, is the Komodo Kamado forum (the best ceramic BBQ made, by Art Linkletter's grandson who I've come to know): https://komodokamadoforum.com/profile/249-syzygies/

I'm known there for a "smoke pot" system for controlling smoke, and doing the math on creating steam for bread.

As a mathematician, I'm best known for my "seven shuffles" card shuffling work with Persi Diaconis, the computer algebra system "Macaulay" (too much C code), and being the math consultant for "A Beautiful Mind".

I really shouldn't blog. I'm still trying to come up with an understandable proof of the Poincare Conjecture.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by sjcsjc on Sunday January 24, 2021 @06:01AM (#25891044)
and being the math consultant for "A Beautiful Mind"

I love Hacker News

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by simonebrunozzi on Sunday January 24, 2021 @06:02AM (#25891051)
Maybe you should blog. I love your writing, here and in past comments.

By the way, curious about your reference to Italy and wine in the above comment. I'm from Italy and thought you could be from there, or at least had an experience in Italy.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:06PM (#25893594)
I've probably lived there six months, in pieces. I love the islands off Sicily.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by arthurcolle on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:38PM (#25888929)
A Beautiful Mind was a great movie, congrats for participating in such a nice contribution to popular culture. Do you write on window glass? ;)
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:11PM (#25889144)
Yes. I was Russell Crowe's hand double. If it wasn't his head showing it was me.

He got the idea of acrylic nails to make his (our) hands longer like Nash. I'd be out in the village drinking with friends, and they'd point out my hands, describing the story. No one bought it. Then I'd say I was a Barbra Streisand impersonator. That I could sell, there was probably one in every bar down the street.

I got my nails done at the same NJ salon that Edie Falco used for the Sopranos. The woman who had promised to do the work was on a Caribbean cruise, so she phoned in. She asked me if I was doing anything else on the film besides being Russell's hand double? I told her I was also his love double.

"Will you be needing an extension for that too?"

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by arthurcolle on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:19PM (#25889205)
What a delightful anecdote! Such a rich set of experiences. Is your last name also the name of a major German pharma corp?

> I told her I was also his love double.

In stitches right now. Did you get to hang out with Russell Crowe, Paul Bettany and Jennifer Connelly? Must be fun being a celeb :D

EDIT: you are in the pen ceremony as well! Wow I need to rewatch this urgently, it's definitely one of my favorite movies and I'll be on the lookout for the cameo :)

EDIT: I was born in 1992, watched it in theaters when I was 9. Time flies.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by leephillips on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:20AM (#25889529)
Not often an HN comment makes me laugh out loud.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by arthurcolle on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:30AM (#25889836)
I wonder/hope (if) it is real
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:30AM (#25890629)
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by feanaro on Sunday January 24, 2021 @06:58AM (#25891341)
> "It was supposed to be in some sense numerological gibberish, but he had the sense that it wasn't quite gibberish, and he wanted me to say what it was." And Nash was right, Bayer said: "It wasn't quite gibberish."

So what was it? The article seems to end on a cliffhanger.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by flyinglizard on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:49AM (#25890717)
That's a rabbit hole I'm happy to traverse.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:10PM (#25894189)
In the Pentagon "War Room" scene, the walls are lined with backlit code transparencies, and Nash infers they're lattitudes and longitudes. The Art department was creating one slide at a time in Adobe Illustrator, and people can't pick random digits, so I wrote a C program to generate all the slides, that Art could control for creative effect. As the scene drew near, I was asked to pick locations along the US/Canada border, such as Starkey Corners, Maine. Russell, fearing we were making these names up, challenged Akiva to prove they existed. Luckily I had a Maine atlas in my car.

Art made an error entering a longitude by hand. It moved the spot 200 yards, so instead of pointing this out I updated the script (mistake #1). Day of filming, Art tells me they caught the mistake, and had overnighted a corrected slide just in time. The "wrong" slide matching the script in Russell's trailer was two hours away. There was no question in Akiva's mind that we should get it. We sent a driver.

Now, I knew Ron Howard would be asking me which slides were which, when we filmed the crucial scene. I asked Art so I could move slides as needed, and was told the head of Art had spent all day positioning them. I innocently found the head of Art to ask him to relay his permission.

Oops. In front of dozens of crew he eviscerated me, telling me I was assuming too great a role, I was just a consultant, I should learn my place. (My role had indeed expanded. There's too much to do on a film.)

After we each had a word with Akiva, I discovered that the soon-arriving "wrong" slide was already in perfect position for filming. I had needlessly prevailed in a confrontation I could have avoided (mistake #2).

During preproduction I had offered to Russell that if he ever wanted to use me in a joke, I was game. Russell had missed the festivities so far. Rehearsing at a map table, he feigned not knowing where one of the locations was. The room froze for what seemed an eternity; he didn't mind. I snuck up silently to point on the map. He bellowed "Fuck off! I'm acting!" and turned to match my grin.

No one laughed. Anyone surprised I hadn't already quit that day was sure I'd quit now. Russell had no idea. He came to me later, wondering why no one laughed, he thought that was funny. I told him, "I thought it was funny. Who cares what anyone else thinks!"

We then spent half a day filming in front of the now-arrived "wrong" transparency matching the script in Russell's trailer. It turned out that Russell had memorized the coordinates (I hadn't). Yikes.

Akiva and I gave each other a silent hi-five look over this. Right call, getting a driver. This could have gone badly. So many decisions on a film set are a game of chance.

I even patched things up with the head of Art. The cinematographer Roger Deakins discovered that if he pulled down the slides the wall made a great backlight. The crew could only restore the original slide pattern because I'd made a chart. There was a strong pattern to the slide colors; this would otherwise have lead to continuity gaffes that many viewers would have noticed. So it appeared at first that I was the heathen about to destroy this artwork, when I was the person in the room who saved it.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:06PM (#25894144)
Akiva Goldsman's instruction to me was to have Nash make gradual progress on the Riemann hypothesis, after he emerged from hospitalization. This isn't historically correct, but the film is a fictionalized account. That's challenging; most mathematicians only have experience with fiction writing for for grant proposals.

For the library scene late in the film, Nash is starting to make sense. I consulted with a few people actually thinking about the Riemann hypothesis. ("Working" on it is staring into the sun.) For those blackboards, they advised me to borrow from Pierre Deligne's work in characteristic p. I made sure that missing definitions prevented anyone from actually proving the boards were wrong. "Freeze-framing the DVD" was a stock phrase for us on the set, but in fact people mostly paid attention to the acting.

As a first year graduate student, I was struck by the similarities between covering spaces in my topology course and field extensions in my algebra course. Asking Barry Mazur in the hallway, he quite mystically intoned that everything is connected. That was the basis for the student approaching Nash in the library. Russell Crowe completely winged his long response at the table. I was seriously impressed.

Earlier, I got pilloried by some for the Harvard Lecture Hall scene where Nash is institutionalized. Hey, it comes with the territory. Nash associating spacetime with the quaternions? Brian Greene gave me such a great look when I tried this line on him that I knew we had to use it. It is crazy, and the scene required crazy. Nevertheless, complex quaternions can model geometries used in physics. The quaternions and octonions extend the complex numbers, one could look there to better understand the Riemann hypothesis. The quaternions are most famously used by game developers for efficient rotations, and one keeps seeing references (here on HN!) to the octonions as deeper. I was at a tech dinner party in Berkeley where various gamers including the founder of Second Life swarmed me to share a moment "Oh! The octonions!"

For the porch scene in question, where Nash is still pretty gorped, I had him playing with a visual notation for continued fractions. The Riemann zeta function doesn't even converge where one wants to understand its zeros. Continued fractions exhibit different convergence properties, somewhat like the light cast in a a park with trees. So I could imagine a gorped Nash obsessing on continued fractions.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by sleavey on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @04:56AM (#25914096)
Fascinating read - thanks for providing so much background information on the production!

And to add to the others, you should really blog about all this, or write a book.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by billfruit on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:00AM (#25890489)
The movie did receive much flak for taking too much creative liberties with Sylvia Nasser's book, and being too much of a Hollywood Conspiracy film.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by ak217 on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:02PM (#25894099)
This is the most beautiful thread I've read on Hacker News. Thank you.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by athriren on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:50PM (#25898492)
thank you for commenting this, it lead to an amazing thread.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by idlewords on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:39AM (#25889873)
This comment is a good reminder that you don't need the argon if you just drink the bottle.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by dehrmann on Sunday January 24, 2021 @03:33AM (#25890381)
To paraphrase a bartender at a bar I've been to a few times, "I'm not 16 anymore; I drink wine by the bottle."
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by visarga on Sunday January 24, 2021 @03:02AM (#25890264)
Just drink it with one friend, bottle finished.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by easyas101110110 on Sunday January 24, 2021 @10:29AM (#25892794)
Don't do this. Industrial argon isn't necessarily clean enough for food-grade purposes and may well contain unknown / poisonous substances. You should know better than to make hazardous recommendations.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by brmgb on Sunday January 24, 2021 @10:54AM (#25892993)
Industrial argon is produced by fractional distillation of air and is a mostly inert gaz. Most of it is not food rated because it's mostly useless in food production. You are taking an extremely limited risk by using it to displace air in a wine bottle especially considering you are not actually puting it inside the wine.

Obviously you should use food rated argon if you want to be safe. It's just going to be more expensive and harder to source.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:19PM (#25894267)
Yes, my understanding is that it would take a mistake in the process to introduce a toxin. The tanks are dedicated to argon over their lifetimes, though they do have a complicated chain of custody. For food-grade argon they do check for safety.

My sense is that I'd be better off avoiding all plastics (not feasible in this world) than waiting for food-grade argon. But yes, this is a decision each person should make.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by sillysaurusx on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:05PM (#25894138)
Obviously you should use food rated argon if you want to be safe.

Ah yes, the common problem all of us face in our daily lives.

“If you want to be safe” doesn’t really jive with “extremely limited risk.”

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by brmgb on Sunday January 24, 2021 @03:58PM (#25895958)
> “If you want to be safe” doesn’t really jive with “extremely limited risk.”

Of course it does. To put it bluntly, it is extremely likely that any bottle of industrial argon is actually food safe because it's produced in basically the same condition that food safe argon. The main impurity while producing argon is oxygen. The main difference between industrial and food safe argon will be how their container is handled but argon as an environment is not really suited to bacterial development.

If you don't feel okay taking this risk, you can buy food grade argon which, well, is guaranteed to be food safe.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm specifically talking about argon there. I would never use industrial distilled water or ethanol with food for example. That would be risky. I have heard of people using industrial CO2 to carbonate beverage. That makes me uneasy because CO2 is a good solvent.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by mschuetz on Sunday January 24, 2021 @02:31AM (#25890114)
> Most wines don't handle the abuse of an open day well.

I've had a wine that, although initially intended as a cooking wine, tasted fantastic 4 weeks after opening it.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by jberryman on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:11PM (#25893640)
Just pointing out there's no objective evidence I could find in this thread, the linked article, or on a quick Google scholar search that a bottle of wine degrades or even changes significantly after N days open.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by cammikebrown on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:01PM (#25894087)
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Arech on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:41AM (#25890671)
Yes, some wines do that. I think, very rarely in general, but I've encountered that too. This occurs more commonly with stronger beverages, such as cognacs/brandys, btw.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by louhike on Sunday January 24, 2021 @10:43AM (#25892899)
For some strong beverages, it's actually recommended to let it "breathe" several hours, to allow the alcohol to dissipate a little, which make the "good" flavors emphasized.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by colordrops on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:47AM (#25889648)
Is there any concern about contaminants in non-food grade argon?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by slim on Sunday January 24, 2021 @02:46AM (#25890195)
I'm not sure most wine would qualify for food grade
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by rprwhite on Sunday January 24, 2021 @07:21AM (#25891450)
It depends on the gas supplier. For the suppliers I deal with the difference between food grade and non-food grade is for insurance purposes.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Cerium on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:14AM (#25893139)
You can ask or check the SDS from your supplier. I just checked a local suppers SDS and it listed that there were no known contaminants posting a safety hazard.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by whymauri on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:33PM (#25888484)
I've also had good luck with nitrous canisters and a cream-charge dispenser. You can order the canisters via Amazon, which is more convenient for me. I do a lot of baking and cocktail infusions, so I kill two (or more?) birds with one stone there.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Scoundreller on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:43PM (#25889348)
Wouldn’t the n2o oxidize things like o2 does?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by whymauri on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:21AM (#25889530)
My (admittedly qualitative) experience, is that N2O oxidizes less than O2, although it's probably not as good as GP's suggestion to use Argon. It's mostly useful for finishing a bottle the day after without compromising on taste. I'm not sure how it might keep if you're hoping to save the wine for longer.

Argon might last for longer than one day, which is a plus! But I tend to finish the bottle within a day or two, so N2O works fine for me.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by buran77 on Sunday January 24, 2021 @06:18AM (#25891130)
I've had good experiences with pumping out the air from the bottle with a wine saver vacuum pump and special bottle cap. Very effective solution, next to finishing the bottle.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by odonnellryan on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:26PM (#25888845)
The vacuum devices take more effort, but work well for up to a week or so.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by dhsysusbsjsi on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:13AM (#25889782)
I think the author is incorrect about vacuvin being rubbish, and loses all credibility when describing replacing the cork being a good method, but vacuum sealers being ineffective.

The beginning of the article asserts that oxidation is one of the primary causes of wine going bad, then completely dismisses vacuum systems, which remove most oxygen out of the bottle. Scientifically, this MUST be superior to simply replacing the cork (or screw cap in Australia).

I’ve found that if I open the bottle and pour two glasses and immediately seal and vacuum (most of) the air out, I can get about 2-4 days of the wine tasting good stored at room temperature, versus about 1 day simply replacing the lid.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by sanedigital on Sunday January 24, 2021 @05:19AM (#25890848)
Vacuum systems aren't bad because they don't remove the oxygen, they're bad because they create a pressure differential that begins pulling some of the aromas out of the wine.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by carlmr on Sunday January 24, 2021 @02:53AM (#25890229)
Yeah, I have great experience with vacuvin, except that my first vacuum piston broke after 2 years.

I even drank a wine after 10 days that, while not great, was still drinkable. It was like a 2 day open bottle roughly.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by tetrazine on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:03AM (#25890500)
> Scientifically, this MUST be superior to simply replacing the cork (or screw cap in Australia).

Why must this be the case? This is a genuine question, not a pure objection.

Consider two oxygen levels, o_1 and o_2, where o_2 << o_1 due to vacuum removal. Consider a set of chemical reactions that occur between wine and the surrounding environment. Of oxygen, glass, trace chemicals, cosmic rays, astological auras, etc. Let ℜ be the set of chemical reations that affect phenomenological quality (flavour) (presumably negatively, as a just-opened bottle of wine is at the peak of quality and can only degrade).

Why must it be the case that o_2 is the limiting factor for all, or even some, of the elements of ℜ? What if another quantity (surface area, pressure, etc) limits the pace or extent of the reaction, and just as much degradation occurs with partial vacuuming (o_2) as without (o_1)?

Perhaps you or someone else is a wine chemist, professional or amateur, and can enlighten me. Until that point, there are more things in heaven and Earth, dear dhsysusbsjsi, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by arijun on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:31AM (#25890633)
You’re 100% correct that it doesn’t have to be better, if gp was wrong about oxidization being the main issue. If the largest problem was evaporation of some oils or something, the vacuum would likely exacerbate the problem (imagine someone vacuum sealing a carbonated drink thinking it would preserve the carbonation!).

In the end, though, I think most people discover that those pumps do help preserve the wine for significantly more time.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by rprwhite on Sunday January 24, 2021 @08:15AM (#25891766)
Wine is a very reactive environment for oxygen. So oxygen will definitely be the limiting factor, because all the chemical reactions have been starved of oxygen (if you’re interested lookup the Fenton reaction). Of course, it’s not always that simple. If you have an very old wine it’s probably been oxidised, due oxygen ingress from the closure, in which case the vacuum is just sucking out the very small amount of remaining volatile compounds. Also, dissolved CO2 is very important in wine, even still wine, so if you have a light bodied, “fresh” wine vacuuming is going to lower the dCO2 - this will generally make it seem worse. Bringing it back to oxygen - increasing dCO2 can be used to increase shelf life, by decreasing oxidation, on wines where you want to limit use of SO2.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by stjohnswarts on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:21AM (#25893202)
there are also lots of screw cap wines in the states and other places.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by wyclif on Sunday January 24, 2021 @06:47AM (#25891286)
I was in the market for a Vacuvin, but I ended up looking hard at both the Coravin and the Eto (both also mentioned in the article).

I went with the Eto for a few reasons. One was price (pays for itself after a few bottles of wine), but the main reason was that it's so much simpler with fewer moving parts and there are no cartridges to replace. And it works well. I recommend the stainless steel version. Happy customer.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by jkmcf on Friday January 29, 2021 @05:58PM (#25963933)
I was an initial Kickstarter backer and it works very well. Just remember to clean it sooner than later or you have to break out the baking soda to get rid of the smell!
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by DennisP on Sunday January 24, 2021 @10:22AM (#25892719)
Why the stainless steel version?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by wyclif on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:54PM (#25898508)
I don't have any proof of this because that's the one I have, but I wondered if the brass versions would get discolored quickly because of interacting with the wine. Stainless is easy to clean.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by cycrutchfield on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:32PM (#25894400)
Vacuvins don’t maintain enough of a pressure differential to make a difference. It’s not like you are pulling a hard vacuum and maintaining it. At best you reduce the amount of O2 by a relatively small fraction.

As others have stated, losing more volatile aromas into the head space of the bottle is the larger consequence of these devices.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by varjag on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:34AM (#25892300)
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by stjohnswarts on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:20AM (#25893192)
his point was that it was no more effective than corking it and putting it back in the fridge not that it did nothing at all.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by sanedigital on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:22AM (#25892219)
I disagree: with the vacuum devices you're creating a pressure differential that's likely to pull aroma compounds you want to keep in the wine out into the bottle.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by DennisP on Sunday January 24, 2021 @08:26AM (#25891840)
This may be a dumb question but if a tank that size were to somehow release all its argon in an average house, would it be dangerous?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by convolvatron on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:51AM (#25892463)
I don't think there is a concern about suffocation.

but you should be aware that these tanks are pressurized to 2500 psi (in the states), and that can get pretty dangerous.

use a new regulator with an overpressure release valve.

myth busters did a segment where they chopped the top valve off a tank - it shot all 100lbs of steel through a cinderblock wall.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by eps on Sunday January 24, 2021 @02:00AM (#25889953)
I'd be interested to hear why you think buying magnums is better.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by jeromenerf on Sunday January 24, 2021 @02:37AM (#25890140)
The bigger the bottle, the smaller the ratio between exchange surfaces/volume. Small ratio means slower reactions, longer conservation, which is empirically better. And you know, a big bottle, so you don’t have to leave the table.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by mellavora on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:53AM (#25892477)
My friend the professional sommelier says a magnum is the perfect size to share with a friend for lunch. Especially if the friend is driving so they can't drink too much.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by arijun on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:23AM (#25890590)
I think this is probably not right. If you always have exactly one bottle open, the magnum will always have more total surface area. If you drink less than 750 ml from both, yes the ratio of area/volume will be smaller, but conversely it also means you are tainting more wine. And if you wanted that effect, you could always open the second bottle the next day and mix the two regular sized bottles.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by rprwhite on Sunday January 24, 2021 @07:44AM (#25891580)
Your right - where this comes most in to play is that the wine isn’t stationary. Every time you pour, which will happen more often with a magnum, you encourage interaction between the wine and atmosphere.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by newdude116 on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:06PM (#25894150)
Your posting sounds weird.

"Yes, argon is heavier than air, but there's this thing called diffusion." What has diffusion to do with it? Nothing. Most diffusion effects in our life are negligible because of convection.

I had to check how much argon costs. It is indeed not very expensive. Why do you need medical grade? What "toxins" do you expect?

This is an overkill for 99% of the population. Does your wife ask "Did you argon the olive oil?" too?

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by cdecoy on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:49PM (#25888606)
Curious if you can describe the setup you use for dispensing Argon into the bottle from the tank.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:00PM (#25888676)
My receipt from 2017 says I also bought a RAD64003037 Regulator Flow Gauge with 10' hose. $120.

It's easy though. Tell them what you're doing, and take their advice.

I cut the 10' hose in half, and promptly lost one of the halves. I set up the cut end so it was inches away from fitting into a bottle on the shelf, for dispensing.

Here's a photo: https://komodokamadoforum.com/topic/8968-funky-old-cow/?tab=...

After the obligatory lecture on medical grade argon versus what I was buying (no difference besides a title), the guy tried seven times to talk me up from a 20# tank (which they don't always have) to a 40# tank (smallest standard size, same price to refill). I kept telling him I wanted to stay married. Then the tank ended up in the "middle shed" with the chamber vacuum sealer. When I went for a refill I reminded him of this hilarious conversation, and upgraded to a 40# tank that's still going strong.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by rsync on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:09PM (#25888737)
Why argon instead of CO2 ?

I displace air from primary fermenters using CO2 and have had good success ... I would be open-minded to switching to argon but wonder if there is a reason ...

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by petertodd on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:43PM (#25888964)
There might be a good reason for argon vs CO2; I'm not a wine guy.

But note that re: safety, if you need an inert gas, CO2 is usually your safest option. Why? Unlike other inert gases, you have a decent chance of detecting CO2 intoxication. For most people, excess CO2 is very unpleasant, giving you a chance (NOT a guarantee!) to recognize the hazard and escape. Meanwhile, if your body is short of oxygen because an inert gas leak has reduced O2 concentrations in the room you are in, there's a very good chance that won't notice and at some point will just pass out suddenly and die. Our bodies just don't have the ability to detect a lack of oxygen directly; we evolved to detect an excess of CO2 instead.

Now, I don't want to fear monger: you can certainly handle nitrogen and argon safely with some care and common sense. I myself used to work with liquid helium in large enough quantities to need an O2 alarm. But all things being equal, I'd use CO2.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by slumdev on Sunday January 24, 2021 @08:33AM (#25891883)
> CO2 is usually your safest option

People with COPD need not apply.

CO2 intoxication is unpleasant for us because the baroreceptors in our arteries can detect when the partial pressure of CO2 is too high. This is the feeling you get when you hold your breath. You have somewhere between four and ten minutes of oxygen supply in your blood, but it becomes unpleasant within the first minute because CO2 is building up instead of being exhaled.

People with COPD always have an abundance of CO2 in the bloodstream because their alveoli don't exchange gases correctly. They likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Just saying. Your argument is sound and generally true, but it's true not for everyone.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by TylerE on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:29AM (#25889828)
Helium is lighter than air, argon heavier.

Important safety difference. You'd still need to be careful, but unless you're lying on the floor...

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by jononor on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:11PM (#25893642)
Dangerous safety strategy if you have toddlers... Or pets, I guess.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by robrenaud on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:16PM (#25889183)
Co2 will carbonate the wine.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by danwills on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:32PM (#25889267)
It takes a fair amount of pressure or reduced temperature (or both) to get enough CO2 dissolved for the resulting beverage to be noticeably 'sparkling' (Source: Friends force-carbonating home-brewed beer in a keg (in a fridge) w/CO2 cylinder). Don't think it would happen much from just filling the air space with CO2 at room temp and pressure.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by amluto on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:05AM (#25889458)
Sticking dry ice in a drink will make it taste noticeably carbonated. This is 1 atm of CO2 at the freezing point.

(Carbonating to 1 atm does not produce much fizz — it only produces any at all because the CO2 offgasses as the drink warms, but bubbles and the taste of carbonation are different phenomena.)

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by klodolph on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:44AM (#25889892)
You’re being downvoted, but this matches my experience. A depleted can of CO2 gas produces weak carbonation, similar to dry ice.

One of the tricks to CO2 canisters is that CO2 liquefies around 6 atm at room temperature, so a canister of CO2 will maintain that pressure until the liquid CO2 is depleted. Dry ice produces about 1 atm of vapor pressure (obviously) which matches the vapor pressure you get when displacing air.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by ridgeguy on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:23AM (#25889543)
CO2 will acidify the wine, which might well alter its taste.

Carbonation (in the sense of making the wine fizzy) will not happen unless pressure is used to drive the CO2 into the wine. You need a supersaturated CO2 solution to get fizzies.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by OJFord on Sunday January 24, 2021 @04:09AM (#25890527)
What kind of source is not pressurised? SodaStream (and other brands) work exactly this way, there's nothing fancy in the box, it's just a button letting gas out of the canister.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by GavinMcG on Sunday January 24, 2021 @09:40AM (#25892368)
It's not about the source; it's about the application. The intention with wine is to let gas layer in the bottle, not introducing it into the liquid directly.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by insaneirish on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:11AM (#25889775)
I have a SodaStream for making seltzer. I also use it to put a 'float' of CO2 in bottles that I want to last longer.

Simply, I put a bottle under the SodaStream nozzle and give a few puffs of CO2 to be confident that it's displaced most of the air.

I do this with normal drinking wine sometimes, but more often things like vermouth that I don't open daily.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by JumpCrisscross on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:47PM (#25888999)
> Why argon instead of CO2

Argon is a bit less soluble in wine. But both are used by professionals.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Syzygies on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:32PM (#25888893)
Given a free choice, I chose the heavier argon. I'd seen it in use in an SF wine store where one could try fifty wines. (An obsessive friend showed me this store. I have better follow-through.)

It is said that CO2 can carbonate your wine. If you haven't experienced this, you're fine. I know no reason to actively prefer CO2 to argon, if one is making a free choice.

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by rsync on Sunday January 24, 2021 @01:04AM (#25889734)
CO2 will not carbonate your wine unless you pressurize it.

1atm of (normal air) displaced by 1atm of CO2 is not going to lead to any carbonation ...

Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by striking on Sunday January 24, 2021 @02:20AM (#25890060)
Which store, if you wouldn't mind me asking?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by rprwhite on Sunday January 24, 2021 @08:35AM (#25891899)
Argon is better at reducing oxygen ingress in the short term, less than 2 weeks. But only strictly as a measure of dO2, sensorily a panel of experts were unable to determine the difference. So I would choose whichever is cheaper.
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by Triv888 on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:11AM (#25889484)
why not nitrogen?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by jimnotgym on Sunday January 24, 2021 @08:47AM (#25891985)
I had some experience with a commercial (restaurant sized) wine dispenser that used nitrogen
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by stjohnswarts on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:14AM (#25893142)
Is there a reason to use argon rather than CO2 ?
Re:How long does a bottle of wine last after it is opened? by MagnumOpus on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:23PM (#25893760)
CO2 is how you carbonate a beverage. CO2 can dissolve in the liquid and makes it more fizzy and acidic-tasting.

That would be desirable for champagne but most likely not for wine.