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Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by ping_pong on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:24AM (#25199261)
git is even worse than whatever these tweets suggest Office 365 does. Git stats have been used against me on performance reviews even though there's no context to the situation. I went from a programming role to an ops role because the ops person left the team and I was the only one left that could do the work, so my number of check-ins dropped, but my contributions that improved the ops section weren't acknowledged.

Any company can create bad metrics if they want. The only solution is to either play the game, or change companies.

That said, I fail to see how effective employee monitoring would be via Office 365. I don't know who would be evaluated on number of emails sent per day, unless they were some sort of support personnel. And if so, they are already being monitored by other means. Any other type of evaluation sounds absurd, ex. number of Word docs opened or created, number of spreadsheets opened, number of presentations created, etc.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by bjohnson225 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:10AM (#25199703)
I used to work at a company which used GitPrime, a product which tries to use git statistics to create graphs and productivity rankings for management, but of course it lacks any context.

The easiest way to shoot up the ranking was to avoid any work where you'd not be instantly coding. Never fix a bug where you need to spend time tracking down the issue, never take on the more complicated pieces of work, never use your time to help out junior team members. Instead focus on simple work and trivial refactoring. The statistics are vaguely interesting and I never had it used against me, but the old quote applies: "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by npsimons on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:46AM (#25200134)
> never use your time to help out junior team members.

Yeah, I'll be honest, if I had this sort of metric forced on me, I would completely ignore everyone, not just junior devs who (quite often) ask for my help on finding the right tool to accomplish a task. I can bang out code all day, that's easy as shit.

But I think I'd quit before I'd sink to that level.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by jlj on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:29AM (#25199921)
I once saw something similar where a co-worker on a newly formed team wanted to keep design documents in a git repo. Those types of documents can have dozens of small changes, or in this case commits, each day. It was also painful to read and edit. Luckily our manager stopped the practice early before it took root.

Another anecdote, I was once in a tech lead role and spent a lot of time pairing and guiding others on their development work. My commits were low but impact was high. Low commits counted against me during promotion review.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by goatinaboat on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:38PM (#25201460)
I once saw something similar where a co-worker on a newly formed team wanted to keep design documents in a git repo. Those types of documents can have dozens of small changes, or in this case commits, each day. It was also painful to read and edit. Luckily our manager stopped the practice early before it took root.

There's a thing now called GitOps, where you manage your infrastructure by tweaking things in a Git repo then Puppet/Ansible/Terraform/Saltstack/whatever runs them automatically. Easy way to get "number of commits" way, way up in a plausible way.

I have a colleague who creates a Jira for every tiny thing that for most people would be just a routine part of their job. He literally spends more time fooling around in Jira than he does actually doing his real job. But he looks great in the stats...

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by me_again on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @01:12AM (#25206422)
Design docs as text files (eg Markdown) in Git doesn't actually sound so terrible to me. Counting impact by number of commits is obviously dumb.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by jlj on Thursday November 26, 2020 @02:14AM (#25217651)
It added another tool to manage on top of an internal wiki and a few collaborative document editing. Wiki was basically markdown and it had its own version control mechanisms built in.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by 908B64B197 on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @01:35PM (#25212572)
I love companies that do this!

An acquaintance of mine told me at a networking event his company started using git stats to do performance reviews. And he pretty much anticipated how it would pretty much end mentoring, documentation and deep debugging (don't bother fixing something, rewrite the offending part of the code as much as you can and hope the bug goes away!).

I ended up poaching 5 seniors engineers from that place, and got a referral bonus for each of course.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by BruiseLee on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:27PM (#25200638)
Good ole Gitprime! The source of so many bad memories. I used to be on a 4 person team and Gitprime was used to stack rank us for every quarterly "performance" review. Woe to the one who ended up ranked at the bottom...
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by na85 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:57PM (#25201672)
>when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.

I see this get thrown around a lot but it's not really true. If a metric can be gamed then I agree it's a flawed or poor metric, but there are definitely good metrics that make good targets as well.

Concrete example: I used to work in aircraft maintenance putting Search and Rescue aircraft into the sky to go pull people out of lakes or out of crevasses, etc. One of our KPIs/metrics was the number of hours spent in what's called the "Red" state, i.e. you have no serviceable aircraft that can fly if a callout happens, meaning the region is lacking airborne SAR assets.

There isn't really a way to (legally) game this metric. Either your aircraft is serviceable or it's not. The only way you could cheat is to just lie on your statistics and release aircraft for missions that are actually not serviceable, but that's going to bite you in the ass sooner or later, would require a conspiracy of 10+ people to lie on official airworthiness documents, and doing so is a federal crime not to mention a big ethical no-no.

Our monthly target was zero. I.e. we tried to go each month keeping at least one serviceable aircraft at all times. We only hit that target a few times while I was in that job but it was rewarding, and on months where the Red indicator was particularly large I would drill down with senior staff to determine if it was an anomaly or if there was a trend starting, and we'd address it.

And yet it's still a good measure because it's directly measuring what was our primary objective (i.e. can you put aircraft in the sky to carry out rescue missions or can you not?)

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by lhopki01 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:21PM (#25202004)
That doesn't provide a way of measuring your individual performance only that of the team. Analogous to that for me would be amount of downtime in our system but that's a whole team metric not an individual one.

In most cases the measurements are proxies for your "share" of the job. In these case they are almost always bad. In all my years in tech I've not seen a way of directly measuring what I do.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by outworlder on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:44PM (#25202237)
> That doesn't provide a way of measuring your individual performance only that of the team

Exactly!

Team metrics can be useful. It is important to know if, say, a team is missing deliverables more than another team. Then you can potentially track down _systemic reasons_.

On an individual level? Can't do it, there's not enough context.

On a pure "lines per code" metric, the most important members on my team would have an abysmal metric. But if they didn't do their jobs, the productivity for everyone else would drop enormously.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by na85 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:18PM (#25203098)
>That doesn't provide a way of measuring your individual performance only that of the team.

Indeed.

Is there a clause I'm unaware of in the saying I quoted that stipulates a target/metric must be an individual one only?

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by thesuitonym on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:13AM (#25199750)
When I interview for a job, I ask what their KPIs are. If they have an answer at all, I withdraw my application.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by corytheboyd on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:51AM (#25200212)
That’s a bit extreme. I would ask them to explain why they chose the KPIs, because that’s where you’ll get the bullshitters to break down very obviously.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by maxehmookau on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:44AM (#25200108)
Half of your post was reasonable.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by chris_wot on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @06:51PM (#25204406)
The second half.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by teekert on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:54PM (#25200958)
We have "Inner Source" as a kpi now. Meaning we constantly ask projects where their code is, how others can use it and where an internal community can develop. I like this kpi.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by wizzwizz4 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:56AM (#25200266)
What about “whether you're doing the work”, or “whether your team benefits from you being in it”?
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by paxys on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:53PM (#25201628)
So you only work for companies that don't do any kind of performance reviews or promotions?
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by core-questions on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:30PM (#25202102)
I want to work for companies where the management knows that performance reviews and most other HR things are a bullshit formality. I should be continually getting feedback from a proper human relationship from my boss. If I am letting them down I want to know right away, not next quarter.

Most of these processes are designed to compensate for managers who don't know what the hell they're doing and shouldn't be in charge of anyone.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by user5994461 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:57PM (#25201680)
I've worked at companies that had promotions/reviews and no official KPI.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by MisterKent on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:38AM (#25200039)
Why?
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by gvfdabgea on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:39PM (#25202186)
Ill have to start doing this too.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by xorcist on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:16AM (#25199789)
Gamification has consequences.

I have seen git commits change over time because someone started to look at stats. You absolutely get what you benchmark for.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by coldtea on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:10PM (#25200436)
>That said, I fail to see how effective employee monitoring would be via Office 365. I don't know who would be evaluated on number of emails sent per day, unless they were some sort of support personnel.

Nobody cares for effectiveness above a certain company size. Even if the company crashes the managers will still get their bonuses and golden parachutes...

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by kortilla on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @09:25PM (#25216310)
Uh, no, bonuses and golden parachutes during a failing company go to execs when that happens. Middle and even upper management below the exec level rarely gets shit if the company is doing poorly.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by syshum on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:29AM (#25199304)
Combined with that, many employee's know how to work the metrics to make themselves look more productive than they really are.

So you end up with work being done to fit the metrics, not necessarily work that is of highest need or more impactful to the organization.

I have seen plenty of bad metrics lead to managers no understanding why their dept's appear to be "hitting all the numbers" but also no performing in the way they desire at the same time

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by ping_pong on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:33AM (#25199357)
After my performance review, I talked to my boss and my boss's boss, and asked them if that's really what they wanted me to do, ie. fulfill these arbitrary metrics or if they wanted me to work on whatever made the team better. They said no, of course not, but a good engineer should be able to fulfill those metrics and make the company better. I explained the situation, that the ops person left and they haven't hired anyone to take over, so I'm left holding the bag and they refused to acknowledge it, so I quit.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by greesil on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:03AM (#25199616)
As a manager myself, you have terrible managers. They should be able to acknowledge the facts of the situation and not put the blame on you. To the opposite, good work, such as taking over something critical when someone left the team should have been rewarded. Metrics are useful, but to only rely on them is what lazy or incompetent managers do.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by blub on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:11AM (#25199720)
What was the point of saying all of the above? In the real world there's many bad managers and new managers are assigned to existing projects all the time. Any tool which provides more misleading metrics is bad news.

Proving that the initial problem can be reduced to a people problem is useless.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by greesil on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:37AM (#25200028)
The point is that some metrics are useful tools, and that some managers are tools.

To be more specific about metrics, something that measures what your users care about, or is beneficial to your company is actually useful. Sometimes the most important metric is a zero or one, which is did you ship? Measuring commit frequency seems intrinsically useless.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by jsgo on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:29AM (#25199927)
my guess is they're trying to say that the person was in the right, their managers in the wrong (and they are a manager themselves) and if they run into the situation again, they know what to look for. Also, in the event this person is beating themselves up over the situation (thinking this is the norm, thinking that maybe they made the wrong decision, etc.) it would appear it is intended to put them at ease that they did the smart thing and it isn't like this on every team.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by wolco2 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:18PM (#25200529)
Why not just ignore the DevOp work and focus on what counts. If no one is measuring ops then it doesn't matter. Someone will get upset the issue will go above you and they will magically hire someone.

If you are covering up for something (no staff) than you will look bad. Push the problem up. Make the people above you look bad instead of taking every bullet.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by dane-pgp on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:55AM (#25199541)
> you end up with work being done to fit the metrics, not necessarily work that is of highest need

Obligatory reference to (generalised) Goodhart's Law:

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by vishnugupta on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:24AM (#25199858)
The overall commits/engineer graph plotted over time was one of the metrics used to justify first round of layoffs at Uber last year. Not necessarily at the individual level but to come up with an aggregate reduction target.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by boogies on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:54AM (#25199532)
At least git is Free, transparent, auditable software, designed to track the work itself, not surreptitiously log each device you glance at a document on and MS only knows what else.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by npsimons on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:48AM (#25200159)
> At least git is Free, transparent, auditable software, designed to track the work itself, not surreptitiously log each device you glance at a document on and MS only knows what else.

Yeah, GP's comment was completely off base. O365 is user-hostile tracking-ware by design. git is just a tool with incredibly high granularity. We don't say scalpels suck because psychopaths use them to torture people.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by agentultra on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:54PM (#25202901)
> Git stats have been used against me on performance reviews

That sounds awful. Sorry that happened to you.

I've been an engineering manager, for a time, and I used Gitprime to track stats.

It was never used for performance reviews or in making promotion decisions or anything.

What it was used for was to manage upwards and demonstrate to the upper management how decisions affect the team, to indicate when we needed to spend on hiring and had room to onboard new people, etc.

I don't see metrics as "surveillance," unless they're used that way. They can be used for good. But I think as you and others have pointed out -- it requires context and transparency: you can't just rely on metrics for reporting on a person.

Tech managers: you need to bring your people up, develop their skills, and pay attention! Metrics are useful but only relationships bring context.

(I eventually returned to engineering as I didn't find I enjoyed management much)

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Beached on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:16PM (#25201959)
if you use a full 0365 stack there are a lot more datapoints to use than just emails sent, or documents opened/created.

you have login times to see if they are late, chat metadata to see time to response on dm, idle status to see if keyboard / mouse went inactive. meetings attended, page views on the intranet, etc. if your a full stack o365 shop, then you can essentially log any and all activity for most employees, and therefore target kpi's that you want. even it admins to a degree will have these logged. powershell sessions opened, commands executed against the stack, every single click 8n the web gui in o365, every single action in azure. they are all logged and assessable, I used the same data for security monitoring before I moved to a Google shop

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by qz2 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:11AM (#25199711)
At least you can git squash all your slacking into one commit and merge.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by kreitje on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:26AM (#25199883)
Ha! I worked at a place where every Monday I had to count the number of commits each team member made and put them on a weekly report.

Once the company got bought, my new boss in charge of all developers across all divisions asked me to not mention that again so he doesn't have to do that. Once I moved on, it sounds like ParentCo took a more active role in the development and hopefully they stopped that.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by qz2 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:07PM (#25200397)
Yeah that was a shitty approach. Stuck at same sort of place. I did an order of magnitude more commits than my peers last year. I had to explain that it's because commits are cheap which makes experiments and rollbacks easy, not that I'm code jesus or something.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:19AM (#25199816)
or make a bunch of tiny commits and change the dates to make it seem like you've been productive.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by _jal on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:29PM (#25200676)
I don't want to see tools built for surveillance, although that's a lost cause at this point.

But the tool doesn't force managers to use it, and the absence of a surveillance mechanism, someone who seeking an excuse will invent a metric for the purpose.

The only cure I've found for toxic culture is to remove someone from it. Usually me.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by dboreham on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:51AM (#25199512)
> or change companies

Definitely that.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by PascLeRasc on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:37PM (#25200770)
Not trying to go off-topic here, but has anyone here actually used git in the workplace? I'm 3 for 3 on jobs that don't believe in version control, and other companies in my city haven't known what it is, I'm constantly asked about having it on my resume skills section. I've been told everything from "it's not enterprise ready and there's no SLA" to "open source is communism".
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by offtop5 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:47PM (#25200863)
What type of living hell doesn't have version control?

Git is the first thing I set up when I start a new side project, every job aside from one which let me set it up, have used version control. I will say Plastic SCM sucks and no one should use it though. One of my side projects ran into massive issues with my contractor due to no one, including myself understanding how plastic works. GitHub for life

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by outworlder on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:53PM (#25202339)
> What type of living hell doesn't have version control?

I've worked (thankfully not as an employee) for a well known BANK which did not have any kind of version control whatsoever. None. Not even folders with dates.

"Where's the latest release?"

"Oh, it's in John Doe's flash drive over there"

I am not kidding.

After a lot of pestering by my company (which was working on a consulting role), they spent big bucks on some unknown version control system used by hardly anyone else. It followed the old Source Safe's "lock" mechanism. Except you had to use their own software and navigate to each file in question (no searching). Imagine how amazing it was to work on a java project and sloooowly open each folder in the reverse DNS package convention until you got to the file you wanted. Very slowly, because all actions happened on the server.

Later on they were bragging on how they were able to create a branch in less than a week. Merging was a day long affair with all code contributors present.

EDIT: still, that was over a decade ago. I didn't know there were companies involved with software in any capacity that still don't have version control in 2020.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by musicale on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @09:05PM (#25205215)
Note Chris Shaffer's comments on the use of git/github analytics for employee monitoring:

"As an (I like to think) good boss, I might use Git statistics to steer interventions with under-performers. If they're committing zillions of lines of code, it's maybe an efficiency or expectations problem. If they never push commits before noon it's maybe a motivation problem."

Though he backtracks a bit regarding his own personal approach:

"But it's always just one data point, and almost always one that colors a response to an issue that exists independently. I'd never determine that someone was an under-performer based on their Git commit history."

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by pjlegato on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:08PM (#25201865)
Yes, git is more or less universal in San Francisco / Silicon Valley companies.

The only places I'm aware of that don't use it are game companies, which tend to use source control systems like https://www.plasticscm.com/games specialized in better handling of very large binary blob asset files like textures, movies, audio clips, etc.; and Google, which has the monopoly-scale dev budget to be able to suffer heavily from "not invented here syndrome," so they built their own proprietary in-house SCM.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by smcleod on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @06:24PM (#25204221)
And every company that works in tech, develops software or performs automation that I can think of in Australia and New Zealand.

I can't imagine working somewhere without git, I think the last time I worked somewhere that used something else was a mix of git and cvs back in maybe 2010ish?

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by erik_seaberg on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:10PM (#25205956)
Google’s monorepo hit scaling issues with Perforce so they replaced some (eventually all?) of its components.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Nursie on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:59PM (#25202944)
> I'm 3 for 3 on jobs that don't believe in version control,

Any version control?

Because if so ... wow. That's bad, I thought that sort of practice went out in the 90s.

Most places I've worked in the last decade use git. A big bank used private instances of bitbucket or stash or something. Another fintech was on github, a smaller company had gitlab or something set up. All git.

Outside of git, one of the tech behemoths had several of its own systems going, clearcase and something in rational team concert. Even the tiniest, worst-run places I've been to in the last 15 years or so have at least used svn or something, and going back to the beginning of my career, 20 years ago, there's always been PVCS or SCCS or something...

Honestly I would find it hard to claim that any serious sort of software development at all was going on if there wasn't some sort of vcs!

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by raxxorrax on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:03PM (#25201066)
I only used git and MS team foundation server once. Never going to use that again, you cannot imagine how slow that monster was. It had VS integration, but it was such a bad product overall.

Used SVN previously for private stuff and I think it is still spread in many companies. I liked it, just all the small folders are a PITA and git is faster for larger repositories. It had far better tools than git in my opinion, TortoiseSVN. Heavy, but practical.

I would always use git now, even if only locally.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by names_are_hard on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:44PM (#25202248)
Yes, git is pretty much the default at tech companies nowadays, although some large companies use more "exotic" source control systems like mercurial.

It's also well supported out of the box by Azure Devops (aka VSO aka TFS) so I would expect to see it in more traditional, non tech companies as well. The idea that it's not enterprise ready is ridiculous.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Wurdan on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @09:56AM (#25209857)
That's the thing, it's not the existence of the tools that's the problem, it's how they're used. Nobody railed against the manufacturers of punch clocks for their products, but these days most employers have come to realize that this is a poor proxy for measuring productivity and don't use such tools.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by closeparen on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:05PM (#25200369)
The gospel of metrics in tech management is toxic.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by aeternum on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @09:47PM (#25205491)
If you were running engineering, what would you use instead? How would you determine salaries and bonuses?

Going by completely subjective metrics is pretty unfair, everyone has some amount of bias.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by closeparen on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:56PM (#25205895)
Human judgement. A manager stupid enough to be worse at evaluating engineers than metrics are would struggle to keep himself fed and warm, and is therefore not a realistic threat.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Rillen on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:09PM (#25203542)
They might have not been any indication for you but i used it as an additional marker;

When there is a team member where you feel something is off from a performance perspective and they should do the same things as other colleges and there is a hard difference between them, it helps you that your gut feeling is not that off.