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Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by zdragnar on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:40AM (#24766000)
As a counter anecdote, I know three people from the bay area who moved out during covidtide, but had already planned the move beforehand. (This is a very high percentage of people I know from the bay area, hence the anecdote).

All had the same rationale: taxes and housing were simply far too high when they could work remotely and live anywhere else. Sure, you don't get the same outdoors, food or retail scene, but plenty of places have those things too.

I imagine the move to working remotely has made that move possible for more people than before, but those I know aren't making temporary moves, they are buying houses.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by tarsinge on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:16AM (#24766375)
> food or retail scene

In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by mercutio2 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @12:32PM (#24767143)
I keep reading people make this claim.

I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food.

You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine upscale places are decidedly mediocre, and the food trucks are... fine.

Certainly, it's better than it was at the margin, but it really depends on what your baseline is.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by opportune on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:45PM (#24771650)
I’m honestly surprised so many people put Bay Area/SF food on the same scale as NYC and LA. It only makes sense when you consider top-tier fine dining (like, Michelin star(s)) IMO. For middle-tier dining I think SF and the Bay Area don’t even come close to either of those cities. In fact I think those hip young college towns are much better, in my experience. It’s just that it’s going to be a different set of foods: more barbecue, Mexican, Central European, soul food, and less asian/what I would call “California health” foods.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by apeescape on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:11PM (#24771822)
Agreed, I feel like SF restaurants are relatively pricey, so in order to get the good stuff you'll have to pay a lot more than in many other places in the world.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by baskire on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:47PM (#24772360)
Sf has some great hole in the wall places that aren’t too expensive. E.g. Tonga room isn’t that badly priced

Dropping 50$/person on dinner & drinks in sf isn’t that much money when your rent is 50x+ that figure.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by nostrademons on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:39PM (#24772897)
Tonga room is a terrible example because, as someone else mentioned, it's a bar in the Fairmont.

If you want a great literal hole in the wall, try Yamo in the Mission. Burmese food, grand total of 6 seats (all at the bar) in the restaurant, and the entire kitchen is right in front of you. $6 entrees.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by chipotle_coyote on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:53PM (#24772956)
The SF Bay Area as a whole has some great holes in the wall, and there's even still some in San Francisco proper if you dig around, but in addition to being a bar in the Fairmont as others have noted, the Tonga Room is a world-famous tiki bar that opened in 1945, with two themed dining rooms that wrap around an artificial lagoon with a "rainstorm" every thirty minutes. That's a really weird definition of hole-in-the-wall. :)

While I haven't been up to SF proper for food and barhopping in a few years now, the Lark up in the financial district is much more of what I'd call a good cheap bar. I tend to bristle a bit at people dissing the SF food and drink scene, but I have to remind myself that with few exceptions my favorite places in the Bay Area aren't actually in SF itself. The metro area as a whole has virtually everything you can imagine at a very wide range of price points. I suspect one could make a case that the most interesting stuff happening is in the East Bay and South Bay, though.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by staticautomatic on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:50PM (#24772643)
A bar inside the Fairmont hotel could hardly be described as a “hole in the wall”
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by noobermin on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:40PM (#24772591)
This is enough to say that then it isn't comparable. "There exists" is only a useful quantifier in mathematics. "There exists" better food elsewhere if you idk pay a world reknown chef to cook you a meal herself for $5000.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by claudeganon on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:14PM (#24771836)
I lived in LA for a long time and I would say NYC has it beat by a large margin when it comes to bourgie restaurants. Most of the hip places in LA are uniformly terrible, the places that have been around a long time are about as good as the same kinds of places in NYC, and the various ethnic restaurants are better in LA (assuming they’re in their neighborhood enclaves).
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by lotsofpulp on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:29PM (#24771921)
I would say middle tier food in SF is easily better than NYC.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by opportune on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:47AM (#24773166)
Well, agree to disagree. Personally I've found food in the $15-40 range in NYC to be better executed and be a better value, with more options. I think other cities also blow SF out of the water with execution and value for that price range, but few are able to compete on the diversity of options.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by anonyxyz on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:37AM (#24775794)
Only if youre eating mexican or clam chowder.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:26PM (#24771905)
> It only makes sense when you consider top-tier fine dining (like, Michelin star(s)) IMO

Within a narrow window. The diversity and turnover of New York or London’s food offerings compared with the Bay Area’s is on par with the latter’s offerings in relation to Fresno’s. If anything, the Bay offers its uniqueness in the middle tier of immigrant fusion.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by jkachmar on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @06:49PM (#24771199)
Lots of people like to believe this but it really, really isn’t true.

Los Angeles and New York City have a substantially larger cultural footprint than other cities.

Even though the variety of food, music, etc. is growing quickly elsewhere, it’s really not the same.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by bobthepanda on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:04PM (#24771322)
Yeah. The problem is that food is not something you can do remote, and so specialized chefs and specialty ingredients need clusters of people to be profitable to sell.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by irrational on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:42PM (#24771620)
My baseline is grilled cheddar cheese on plain white bread with Campbell's Tomato Soup is the greatest food ever invented. I once went to a work lunch at one of the city's most raved about restaurants. I ordered the grilled cheese and tomato soup. That was when I realized that I really am not a food connoisseur. How can something so simple as grilled cheese and tomato soup be so thoroughly ruined, just in an effort to make it fancy?
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by ryan_lane on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:53PM (#24771712)
You can't serve something like that at a restaurant and make it in a plain way, because it's something that basically everyone can make at home for really cheap. People are looking for an interesting take on something like that in a restaurant, which isn't going to fit what you want.

That's a poor choice to judge a restaurant on. You need to base your judgement on things you can't or won't cook at home because it takes too much time, is too complicated, or uses ingredients that are difficult to get.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by tikhonj on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:41AM (#24773142)
Well, you can't make something simple in a simple way unless you are both really confident and really good :).

In a sign of the crazy times we live in, Chez Panisse has started doing takeout. First time I tried it, I got a BLT sandwich. Exactly what it says on the tin: bacon, lettuce, tomato, no weird spices or creative takes or deconstruction. Just a stock BLT sandwich—except better in every way. I'm not even sure how. I would not have thought there was that much room to improve on a BLT through better ingredients and execution, but apparently there is.

Anyway, if you're in Berkeley, I would highly recommend giving it a try.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by sidlls on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:36PM (#24772303)
Sometimes people just want to go have a get-together including well-trod "comfort food" style means, but with someone else (the restaurant) doing the cooking and cleanup.

I don't go to restaurants to be entertained by the food or "impressed" by the "creativity" of the chef, and I'd wager neither do most people.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by dylz on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:58PM (#24772404)
Then you're looking for the equivalent of a solid takeaway place, not somewhere where you go for the "experience" and "gastronomy"
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by sidlls on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:28PM (#24779213)
That’s just one aspect of a vibrant food culture. That is, access to multiple cuisines is a different discussion from how fancy the preparations are.

There are plenty of “sit down” restaurants that aren’t fancy, but are more than “solid takeaway” that fit in this picture. And these are what most folks actually think of when they picture dining out.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by ghaff on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:04AM (#24775580)
Or just about any diner.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by noobermin on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:44PM (#24772614)
I like how this is downvoted. HN's culture is so not the nerd stereotype that people paint it as, it's much more elitist honestly.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by chipotle_coyote on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:03AM (#24772996)
There's a kind of weird inverse elitism in going to a fine dining restaurant, ordering an expensive fancy grilled cheese and tomato soup combination, and bitterly complaining about it because it's not a can of Campbell's and a slice of American on white sandwich bread.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by rcpt on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @04:19PM (#24769878)
It's true that you can't buy a whole jackfruit at the grocery store in most of the US but I've always been able to find good restaurants of some variety with minimal effort. It's real hard to justify SF prices based on food options.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by mrgordon on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:52AM (#24773530)
I often end up spending more for distinctly worse food in other American cities. It is sometimes hard to swallow paying premium prices for food and then immediately realizing after the first bite that the ingredients are subpar or there is more focus on making it Instagrammable than actually delicious

From that perspective, eating out in SF always felt like a good deal because for $15 you can get some truly exceptional farm to table food.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by gmadsen on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:47PM (#24772032)
depends on your priorities. I would rather have nice restaurants than a nice apartment or house. I've lived in a culturally devoid suburb, where the options are fast food, or chain restaurants, and it affected my quality of life substantially.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by rcpt on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:33PM (#24772281)
Not everything outside SF is a "culturally devoid suburb"
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by kelnos on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:14PM (#24772764)
No, and I think it's uncharitable to assume that's what the parent is suggesting.

But even if we expand the statement to "outside a major city" or even "outside a major metro area", I think a lot of places are culturally devoid suburbs (though I probably would have picked a nicer way of putting it).

I would wager that the majority of suburbs in the US don't have much variety in cuisine, and while communities will certainly have a few stand-out restaurants, there will also be a lot of mediocre fast food, fast casual, and pizza shops. I grew up in places like that, some of my family lives in places like that, and some friends who used to live in cities, but moved out for more space, also live in places like that.

Get too far outside Seattle, Portland, the SF bay area, greater LA, Chicago, Boston, NYC, DC, Austin, Dallas, Nashville, and even many smaller cities, and there really isn't much to write home about when it comes to food. And for some of those cities, "too far outside" can be as little as a half hour drive.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by WWLink on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:14PM (#24771835)
> You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food

Anecdotally, I moved from the bay area to somewhere near los angeles a while ago, and the americanized chinese food here sucks compared to what I could get in the bay area. And it costs twice as much! :(

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by cworth on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:54PM (#24772961)
Try the San Gabriel valley.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by api on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @06:13PM (#24770928)
Try Asheville, NC
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by jzoch on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:30PM (#24771541)
As everyone else is echoing - really not true. I grew up in Orange County which, for a suburb, has really good food options. Tons and tons of restaurants and a lot of people accustomed to nice things.

The difference in food options between SF (where I am now) and OC (or LA vs OC) is absolutely astounding. Its really not even close. Its gotten better but large cities are still orders of magnitude better.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by onecommentman on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:19PM (#24772791)
Did you mean to write “much” instead of “orders of magnitude”? If not, please provide support for even a single order of magnitude compared to OC.

Sincerely, the League for Reducing Hyperbole on the Internet

PS: “Everybody else”, “absolutely astounding”, “its [sic] really not even close”...sit down and have a nice glass of warm milk and think about what you wrote. :-)

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by runT1ME on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:51PM (#24772652)
I live in OC now, and have traveled quite extensively as well as spent time working in the Bay. While lacking in Michelin star restaurants (only a handful) it is otherwise phenomenal when it comes to options and quality, even compared to bit cities. Now bars/nightclubs/music venues are where it is sorely lacking.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by gautamcgoel on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:22PM (#24771885)
Just to make sure I understand, your saying you have better options in LA and SF than in OC? Couldn't quite make out from your comment.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by vikiomega9 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:54PM (#24771718)
Are there specific cuisines? The Indian options are pretty bad imo, there are a few good places but overall not as good as the South Bay.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by unishark on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:54AM (#24776532)
LA itself is mostly suburb too though.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by scsilver on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:14PM (#24771834)
I think this is really true. Ive been getting great coffee and food in the smallest towns, tourist towns albeit, but metropolitan level fanciness on a gateway town to capital reef NP is impressive. I can get my fancy latte's in almost every nook in america, some might be closed on sundays though.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by jrumbut on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:41PM (#24772903)
I would say the presence of anything nice at all and the number of choices has really dramatically improved across the country.

The quality is what it is, but at least someone is trying to give you something interesting to do.

Or at least that was the case in 2019. I really hope we return to valuing in-person interaction when it's safe to do so.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by coredog64 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:54AM (#24766763)
If you have to eat outdoors, a mobile restaurant (aka “food truck”) can recreate a good portion of the experience anywhere.

As one example, NYC opens Governor’s Island to the public for only part of the year. Food service comes in the form of a “food court” made up of a bunch of food trucks/container kitchens.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by gmadsen on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:39PM (#24771979)
Sorry but this is wrong. Food scenes require diverse cultures. Small town USA doesn't have 50+ ethnic groups making restaurants downtown
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by porknubbins on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:54PM (#24772076)
By this metric food scenes can only exist in 2-3 cities in the US (or world for that matter). I think food scenes that do one or two things well are totally worthwhile and a huge improvement over bland suburban chains.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Daishiman on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:06PM (#24772138)
Effectively, there's never more than a dozen cities, tops, in any country in the world where you can get close to top-level food quality, and even so that applies only for a few genres of food.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by tchaffee on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:42PM (#24772338)
Except for Italy, Peru, Mexico, Japan, France, Thailand, and many other countries where you can find top quality food in thousands of small towns and out of the way places. So probably not a great rule to go by.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by howlgarnish on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:10PM (#24772467)
You can get top-quality Japanese food in thousands of small Japanese towns, and top-quality Thai food in thousands of small Thai towns. However, rest assured you will have a very hard time finding (say) Mexican in either. The only places in either country where you have a genuinely cosmopolitan food scene are Tokyo and Bangkok respectively.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by freeone3000 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:39PM (#24772893)
What is top-quality American food, and where do you find it?
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by howlgarnish on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:55PM (#24772966)
Not an American, but the last time I rocked up to a random small American town and chose a random small restaurant, I had a really good turkey chili burger [1]. Hardly gourmet, but delicious, and it's quite difficult to find this kind of thing outside the US.

[1] The "Chili Monster" at the Dillinger in Boulder City, NV, in case you were wondering. https://www.thedillinger.com/ (Not to be confused with Boulder, CO.)

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by chipotle_coyote on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:11AM (#24773022)
In addition to the burger previously mentioned, off the top of my head as "American cuisine" there's obviously barbecue, as well as Southern cuisine, Cajun/Creole, and -- while some might argue -- I'd throw in Tex-Mex and New Mexican (e.g., the state of New Mexico) as gastronomically distinct. Where you find it is, well, all over. You have to do a little research. :) But you can find really well-regarded restaurants around America for those cuisines, across a wide variety of price points.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by jupp0r on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:49PM (#24772364)
France begs to differ. You have spectacularly good restaurants in rural areas all over the county (Michelin star good).
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by kelnos on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:18PM (#24772789)
Sure, but you don't get the variety. If you move out to rural France but are used to rotating among eating Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Thai, etc. throughout the month, you might be disappointed with the lack of choices.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by carlob on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:09AM (#24773017)
You are probably used to this rotation just because you grew up in the US. As someone who has grown up in Italy we don't think about food this way, not even regionally. I.e. don't expect a great risotto in Naples or a decent carbonara in Milan...
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Daishiman on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:01PM (#24778884)
This isn't a US thing, it's about cities with cosmopolitan tradition. Italians are the complete opposite of this culture.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by carlob on Thursday October 15, 2020 @09:27AM (#24788399)
I think there is a spectrum, the US being a country of immigrants is on one extreme, Italy having been several different independent states up to 160 years ago and having many different climates and cultures is on the other. While it's true that the Italian approach to cuisine might be overly provincial I think that most of the world is closer to Italy than the US.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Bayart on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @07:33AM (#24775405)
Being in rural France, I like trying some new foreign cuisine once in while as much as anybody else, but it wouldn't come to my mind to make it my daily routine.

Going out of your way to not eat local stuff is completely pointless to me. People take quite a lot of pride in having good stuff specific to their area.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Daishiman on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:02PM (#24778909)
In the Bay Area you can get, in the same weekend, excellent Vietnamese, excellent Peruvian, and excellent patisserie.

The ingredients are sourced locally for the most part, and the imports are about as good as they can get, and substitutions are sober.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Bayart on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:14PM (#24779711)
The Bay Area is three or four times the size my département. It could be a country. I don't even walk more than five minutes to buy all I eat...

It's hard to share scales with Americans.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by tchaffee on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:35PM (#24772295)
France, Italy, Mexico, Peru, Basque, and Japan are all examples of places with mostly one ethnic group and great food scenes.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by dralley on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:45PM (#24783510)
The best Indian food I've ever had (and I only ate there once so maybe it was a fluke) was an Indian restaurant in Brno, Czech Republic, population 400k.

I can't imagine there were very many Indian people there, but the food was amazing.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by kelnos on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:20PM (#24772794)
Very true! But I'd be disappointed if the only plentiful cuisine was the local one. As much as I love each of the cuisines you mentioned, I can't imagine predominately eating any one of them.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by unishark on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:23AM (#24776217)
I think in Japan you could probably go to a different restaurant serving a different type of Japanese food (e.g. ramen, sushi, soba, tempura, steak... even the US has the more famous ones) and continue on for weeks before exhausting the possible options for different restaurant types, all of which count as "local" food. At least local to the country.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by gmadsen on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:02PM (#24778149)
fair point. I think my comment was US centric. There really isn't a cuisine culture in a lot of small usa towns. Probably do to the short lived actual history of the US, and the nearly forced consumption of preservative ridden and processed food following the world wars.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by mxcrossb on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:02AM (#24766223)
This is the mindset I really don’t understand though. Sure your company can say “we’re all remote” today, but they can just as easily say “everyone has to come back” in six months. Or “everyone doesn’t have to, but those who don’t are the first laid off next time”. I’ve been fully remote since March, so I’ve been weighing this for awhile”
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by toomuchtodo on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:09AM (#24766293)
Many companies have publicly stated they will allow permanent work from home [1]. Many others have said so privately to their workers. As more companies adopt this, this provides more options to those who relocate and whose employer tries to pull them back.

Keep a long runway in an emergency fund, keep your professional network warm, always be ready to bounce if your employer tries to change your quality of life for the worse (mandatory return to an office somewhere, for example). (Disclosure: This is how I operate, and have worked from home for over 7 years.)

[1] https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/companies-switching-remot... ("27 Companies That Have Switched to Long-Term Remote Work")

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by 8ytecoder on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:03PM (#24771315)
I spoke to a recruiter at a company that publicly said they'll allow permanent WFH. He said it's on a case by case basis and you still need manager approval. It's guaranteed only till next Summer. Companies can something public with if and buts and caveats added internally.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by toomuchtodo on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:39PM (#24772326)
There are always outliers. Importantly, the trend is clear.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by baskire on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:49PM (#24772367)
Is it? the trend I’ve seen is wfh not work remote. Wfh still means going to the office 1-2 days a week.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by stouset on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:56PM (#24780204)
And when you decide to leave your current company?

Certainly I believe that remote work was already on the way to becoming more and more accepted, but by moving out you're still limiting your employment prospects to those companies that decide not to focus more on in-person roles. Maybe that will still work out in the long-run, but I still think there's significant long-term financial benefit in maximizing your number of potential employers.

Plus, if you're expecting to move back to San Francisco at some point, right now is the time to do it while prices are through the floor. You're far better off moving in right now at a 35% discount—which is permanent given rent control—than trying to come back in another year when COVID-19 is (hopefully) over and people are flooding back in.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by toomuchtodo on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:52PM (#24781461)
> And when you decide to leave your current company?

You apply at companies with remote roles. I haven't lived in SF though, and would never do so, so I can't speak to solving for timing the market there.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by baby on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:20AM (#24766431)
And a bunch of others said they would go full remote for a year. So that’s enough to make people move (including me). We’ll see in a year.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by brogrammernot on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:13AM (#24766339)
As another poster said, companies aren’t going to risk lose talent in troves if they enact a work from office policy.

When you got major companies like Twitter, google, Facebook, and others already saying WFH is a permanent option that’s put pressure on others to figure out how to make it work.

Talent is needed at many, many companies and if the talent is a.) needed and b.) good enough the company will make “exceptions” to the rule.

Enough companies make enough exceptions and it’s a mainstay policy.

Overall, the other part is that companies that now offer remote work as a permanent option may not have to pay SF salaries so that’s a bonus to the company. It’ll go both ways, the company can say I’m not requiring you to live in high COL area and we have an office in X city, we pay 10% above the market average of ~35-40 cities so they’re still competitive on pay (assumption being that most companies move to this model, FAANG may overpay still but that’s always been the case) so now what do you do?

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by ryandrake on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @02:53PM (#24768842)
As someone who has worked both in the Bay Area and outside of it, I moved here because of the job market, not because of the salary. I would take a salary cut any day to move away, but I want to stay with my current company AND keep access to the SF Bay Area job market.

Literally the only thing keeping me from listing my house right now and moving to a different area is that not enough Bay Area companies have committed to permanent WFH yet. Once that happens, I'm gone.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Pokepokalypse on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:00AM (#24772981)
wise thinking.

there is a huge difference, not only in the kinds of work you can put on your resume, but in the quality of co-workers, and what you can learn from them.

You can approximate that experience in some other areas (Provo, Boston, Austin, San Luis Obispo, etc) but a LOT of American cities are still technological backwaters, and there's nothing available but garbage jobs that will drain your soul and turn you into a code zombie.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by kilbuz on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:46PM (#24771656)
Where are you thinking of moving? I live here for more than the job, so just wondering what other cities are on the radar.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by dataminded on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:20PM (#24772501)
Come to Detroit. It's still REALLY cheap and the tech job market was #2 in the US for growth.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by ryandrake on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:14AM (#24773323)
Depends on the exact WFH environment. If companies go with permanent full remote option, then I'd pick an area with zero or low state income taxes, warm weather, and cheap housing. Las Vegas area, South Florida. Texas is interesting but I don't know much about the cities there, having never lived or visited.

If companies look like they're aligning on more of a hybrid model where you can WFH but they expect you to show your face in the office every so often, then I'd have to stick to $CA$ and maybe head out somewhere on US-50 between Folsom and Placerville, or maybe way up I-5 somewhere towards Shasta.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by newbie2020 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:52AM (#24766749)
Young people are extremely agile. When I was in my 20s, I could decide to move today, and by out of my apartment and into the new one by Saturday. Except for my queen mattress, I could probably still do that. Same will probably happen upon the return to SF
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by coredog64 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:57AM (#24766791)
There’s a lot more flexibility being pondered, with only one or two days in the office instead of 5. It’s easier to consider moving to the East Bay, Modesto, Gilroy or whatever if you only have to get to the office once or twice a week. Depending on rent, a hotel and flight could even open up much of the west coast.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by dudul on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:28PM (#24771516)
I think this ship has sailed. When even FAANGs start doing full time remote who would be crazy enough to go back to on-site only?
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by dan_quixote on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:43PM (#24771631)
Unless upper management goes full-time remote, then power (and ambitious employees) will always consolidate.
Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by baskire on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:52PM (#24772378)
^ ever work with someone in a remote office. I’ve always seen their careers take a hit. Same for remote employees.

It’s great when you have a family with kids and you’re less career focused. But I noticed my comp increased almost 2x their’s over the same timeframe.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by Pokepokalypse on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:04AM (#24772998)
It's absolutely true that the home-office staff always get the best projects, be in-contact and visible to the executive staff, and are last on the list when layoff-time comes.

This is also true when you're at a home office, and you get acquired, and it becomes a remote office. Your career gets fucked.

I've had it happen to me over and over again; and it's very different when you work at the headquarters.

It's my biggest worry about 'permanent WFH'. It's that I'll end up being like the remote-office nightmare all over again.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by onecommentman on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:36PM (#24772886)
The eternal choice between career and quality of life. What is nice about WFH is the expanded options for improved quality of life.

If the commitment is there for WFH to become an option for all, corporations will promote one or more WFH VPs to send the message that it’s OK, as occurred for women and minorities. I’d guess they’d choose rising stars with personal commitments that make WFH the obvious humane and moral choice.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by ianferrel on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:06AM (#24766270)
Realistically, the vast majority of companies aren't going to issue an edict like that. They're going to find a way to work with their employees.

If you have employees who have been working productively remotely for a year, it's probably better to find a way to keep them happy and working than to have to find a new employee.

Re:San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S. by kaikai on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:15AM (#24766358)
For engineers, at least, were used to finding new jobs fairly quickly and easily. It’s not worth it to live in a bad situation for an unknown amount of time because you might need to find a new job sometime in the future otherwise.