News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Spooky23 on Thursday July 23, 2020 @10:26PM (#23935052)
In theory sure.

In reality, the financial system is oriented towards big capital. My aunt ran a coffee shop that was established by grandparents in 1939. It was in the lobby of a office building in he central business district of our little city. The building was bought by a Chinese investor. Like other similar stores, her rent went up 5x and she shuttered.

I live in a mixed use urban neighborhood. 50% of he storefronts are vacant or populated by death businesses like karate dojo’s.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:33PM (#23935435)
The problem is people want to call it "mixed zoning" but still have Karens on the central planning committee making stupid rules, e.g. they'll have "businesses" next to "residences" but a given plot will be explicitly designated as one or the other.

What you really want is the small businesses which start off being operated out of the proprietor's residence. A hair salon in a converted living room, a restaurant serving food from the owner's home kitchen. Something that can start off as a side business yet can advertise without getting into legal trouble and grow into more if it's successful.

You get a few of those in an area and someone decides it's a good place to knock down a house and put up a five story building with condos on top and a coffee shop and a bakery on the ground floor.

You have to let it grow organically like that or you just end up with abandoned "commercial" buildings because businesses fear moving in when they know their success would lead to increased rents as a result of the limited amount of designated-commercial real estate in the area.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by moltar on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:08AM (#23935621)
Yup see “shop houses” [1] in Southeast Asia for how it should be done.

Shop house is a flexible creature. It can be a business, but is also easily converted into living quarters, if necessarily, or a parking garage, or whatever you want. It’s just a flexible, convertible space.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shophouse

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by dbcurtis on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:25AM (#23936018)
Interestingly, in the area of Iowa and Minnesota where I grew up, where a lot of the towns were founded just after the Civil War, the shops on main street were mostly brick storefront on the ground level, with residence above. Very few shop owners live in the apartment these days, for more than the last 50 years the apartments were rented out, usually quite cheaply.

I did have one friend that ran a shop and lived above -- it seemed great -- but he owned the building and had done a lot of modernizing of the apartment. It doesn't fit the suburban dream, though. No yard -- the green space for my friend was the county court house square across main street from his shop.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by moltar on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:57AM (#23936257)
I think many older North American cities have these features

Ottawa, Canada has these too on Bank St. Toronto has many of these streets also, for example Queen West. These are generally the most vibrant neighborhoods.

The solution to having lack of backyard space is to have public parks. Montreal has this more right than any other city I’ve seen.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Hnrobert42 on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:46AM (#23936168)
Exactly. That’s partly why I love living in Vietnam. The neighborhoods are so vibrant and full of life. Everyone is out on the stoop. Neighbors all know each other and buy from each other.

Of course, from my apartment I hear karaoke late at night, roosters early in the morning, and construction, always construction.

So there are drawbacks. It would be disruptive, especially in suburbia. But I would love some middle ground between crazy Saigon and cultural desert suburban Atlanta.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by m_mueller on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:18AM (#23936368)
Even Tokyo works a lot more like this. It's a beautiful mess, but in addition it has some of the best public infrastructure.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by cpursley on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:09AM (#23936975)
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by moltar on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:52AM (#23936226)
I’m in Da Nang myself at the moment :D
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by L_Rahman on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:26AM (#23936417)
Where do all these roosters live? I kept an eye out for them wherever I went in Da nang, but I never saw any of these roosters. Definitely heard them every dawn though.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by nonford150 on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:29AM (#23938661)
Blame the writers of "Will & Grace".
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by brobdingnagians on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:07AM (#23936595)
Can anyone explain how the term "Karen" isn't both racist and sexist at the same time? I hadn't heard of it until a few months ago, and now it seems everyone is using it to refer to a certain kind of "middle class white woman". A term like that to describe a certain kind of middle class asian or black man would be very offensive. Are the days where we try to exercise civility and empathy gone? It feels like society has gone from "let's tolerate people" to "let's ridicule people we don't like, without logical argument".

Blaming the disappearance of tiny businesses in residential neighborhoods by saying "It's all those middle class white women" seems both very shallow and specious.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by koolba on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:10AM (#23938064)
It’s both racist and sexist but the people advocating it’s usage don’t actually care about either issue. I think it’s filed under the general hypocrisy that you cannot be racist against white people.

Using a name meant to paint a picture of a suburban white woman is no different than describing someone as a Jamal, Yousef, Goku, Carlucci, Vladimir, Shenequa, Herschel, or Juan. If a news outlet used any of those names to describe a person in a news story they’d be immediately flagged as racist. And yet we see the term used to describe white woman gracing articles on the front page of even the NY Times.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by impendia on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:15AM (#23937723)
> Can anyone explain how the term "Karen" isn't both racist and sexist at the same time?

It is. There are plenty of decent people named Karen who do not deserve to have their name appropriated as an insult.

Better to say "entitled jerk" or something similar. That way, the only person you're insulting is whomever you're calling a jerk.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by KMag on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:27AM (#23936710)
It's definitely sexist and racist. I think usage of the term shot up following the incident a couple months back where a white woman explicitly tried to use faked fear to weaponize police against a black man telling her to leash her dog in Central Park. Combined with the current prominence of Black Lives Matter and some older similar incidents of white women calling police on black people, the racist sexist meme has really taken off.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by coffeeling on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:29AM (#23938188)
I've always seen it as referring to a certain kind of insufferable, entitled customer that demands to see the manager. Usually presumed to be a middle-aged white woman, yes, but the weight was on insufferable behavior, not demographics, at least originally. Suddenly people have started complaining about it as being heavily about race/sex and being bigoted, when the original was just codeword for asshole.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by disgruntledphd2 on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:06AM (#23938493)
There are too many people named Karen for it not to become offensive to those people at least.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by dagurp on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:30AM (#23936733)
Amen. Childish name-calling like this and "ok boomer" are being used to dismiss anything a person says because they're older.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jessaustin on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:08AM (#23938983)
You are really tempting fate with this comment...
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by scott_w on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:03AM (#23938008)
> Can anyone explain how the term "Karen" isn't both racist and sexist at the same time?

Because it’s tied to behaviour. Stop behaving like an a-hole and you stop being called a Karen.

You can’t stop being black or a woman.

That’s the key difference.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by ramblerman on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:10AM (#23939000)
> Because it’s tied to behaviour.

We wouldn't call illegal gardeners a Hernandez, or terrorists from the middle east Mohammeds. Those are behaviors too.

What makes it wrong is picking an ethnic name to associate with that behavior. Karen is a euphemism for suburban, white, female.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by scott_w on Saturday July 25, 2020 @01:51PM (#23951098)
Except for the second part: you’ve never been discriminated against for being white.

The sexist part doesn’t really fit for me either, as we generally reserve insults for genders too. Bitch vs bastard are prime examples.

By the way, the male version of “Karen” in my part of the world is much worse.

[dead]
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by quietbritishjim on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:51AM (#23937591)
> so the people so described want to ... take offense to it.

This is very much a straw man. If I see a term that is derogatory towards black people, I have every right to object even though I'm not black. And if I see a term that is derogatory towards women, I have every right to object, even though I'm not a woman.

In fact you seem to be claiming, in this case, that you would only ever object to the term "Karen" if you actually have the characteristics that the term refers to. If true, that would simply invalidate the opinion of everyone who objects. But, just like with race and gender, you can object to that term even if its implied meaning genuinely doesn't match your personality type. Especially if you're objecting to the specific term, not to the principle of insulting that personality type.

Edit: to make it a bit more concrete, imagine the term "little black men" had been used instead. Upon objection, you replied "no, no, no, the term term doesn't necessarily refer to actual black men, just people that behave a bit like black men". That is very much what the term "Karen" is like.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:14AM (#23937713)
> If I see a term that is derogatory towards black people, I have every right to object even though I'm not black.

Karen isn't derogatory to women, it's only derogatory to Karens. There is no implication that women are all Karens, only that Karens are contemptible.

> In fact you seem to be claiming, in this case, that you would only ever object to the term "Karen" if you actually have the characteristics that the term refers to. But, just like with race and gender, you can object to that term even if its implied meaning genuinely doesn't match your personality type.

Except that race and gender aren't personality types, whereas that's exactly what "Karen" is, and it's just the personality type that would object to the term.

> to make it a bit more concrete, imagine the term "little black men" had been used instead. Upon objection, you replied "no, no, no, the term term doesn't necessarily refer to actual black men, just people that behave a bit like black men". That is very much what the term "Karen" is like.

The analogy to "little black men" would be something like "white female busybodies" which is completely different because it's putting the focus specifically on that race and gender.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by impendia on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:18AM (#23937746)
> Karen isn't derogatory to women, it's only derogatory to Karens.

I would dispute this point. The term is, at least, derogatory to women who are named Karen -- whether or not they are "Karens".

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:34AM (#23937825)
Being a Karen has nothing to do with your actual first name.

What you're really doing there is showing why it isn't sexist even though it's implicitly female. The detail is only there for color, not as a core component of the archetype.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by NovemberWhiskey on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:51AM (#23938830)
"Karen" is rooted in the stereotype of an over-bearing, entitled person in a customer service setting. Our prejudices tell us that person is probably a white soccer mom. So she gets a name we associate with the white soccer mom demographic.

You argue that "Karen" doesn't refer to whiteness, the middle-classes or the female gender - it just refers directly to the stereotype and therefore it's OK.

I invite you follow the same logic here.

Consider the stereotype of a gun-toting street gang member. Our prejudices may tell us that person is probably a young black male that lives in a big city. So he gets a name we associate with the young black urban male like "Deshawn" .

The logic is the same, yes?

If you're OK with "there goes Karen calling the cops on the Walmart clerk again", you should be OK with "there goes Deshawn shooting the neighborhood up again".

Are you?

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by buran77 on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:50AM (#23938368)
It is insulting via the sexist, racist, and stereotype routes simply because you meant it to be insulting. You explicitly use the "image" of a white woman in a stereotypically unflattering situation as an insult. In this case it's your implication that [quoting you] "a specific type of asshole" must be associated with the image of a white woman as represented by the name "Karen".

Only a serious level of bigotry would make someone pretend it's not racist or sexist if the word can also mean something else, in this case a simple name. It's what you meant by it and what you associated that with that matters.

[dead]
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by buran77 on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:03AM (#23938929)
No my friend, it's also insulting via the "why you picked Karen (implicitly white woman) as a reference for an insult" route. You may use the insult on anyone else but the fact that you picked "white woman" as the reference means you believe that this is a defining enough trait to associate with them, you consider white women the embodiment of that negative trait and as representative of it.

It's the same reason calling someone a "fag" is meant as an insult for both that person (even if they are straight), and for homosexuals since you obviously consider this trait of theirs only suitable for an insult. It's an attack both on the people you address it to, and on the ones you based your insult on. Something an uneducated bigot would readily use but never realize why. They usually feel threatened by everything they don't understand or like (different gender, color, sexual or religious orientations) and "weaponize" that as a cover for their own ignorance. ;)

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by quietbritishjim on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:54AM (#23937951)
You're right "little black men" isn't quite analogous, I couldn't think of a first name that as obviously belongs to a specific race as "Karen" is obviously female. A sibling comment gave a great example of "Mohammed", but instead of their example imagine that Mohammed was being used exactly like Karen, just for someone unnecessarily obstructive. And then someone uses it claiming, oh no, just because I used that name doesn't mean that it's meant to refer to Muslim or Arab people necessarily. Oh really? It was just a total coincidence? Come on, clearly not. Yes, it wouldn't claim that all people in that group have that personality type, or vice versa, but it would heavily imply that there's a strong link.

You could argue that Karen was chosen over Steve or Jeff purely by coincidence because obviously 50% of people are female so why shouldn't it be a female name? Actually a technical author I really like, who doesn't like the singular "they", solves the problem by just using the pronoun "she" for every unspecified person ("if the reader doesn't believe this theorem she can check it herself..."), which I think is fantastic... why not use she over he? But the fact this is so surprising is exactly because it is so unusual. It is, sadly, the default, to use male pronouns and names for things, so when a female name comes up it usually has a connotation (although I just gave an exception). Whether you mean it or not, using "Karen" for someone with that type of personality type heavily suggests that women are more likely to be like that.

That is all already true without an additional fact: historically, it is sadly a stereotype that women's opinions are more petty and unimportant than men's. The use of the word "Karen" for someone with unimportant, ill-informed opinions is directly playing into an existing stereotype. And it is totally avoidable.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by purple-again on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:24AM (#23938140)
I think "Uncle Tom" might fit here. Its clearly designed to target Black Men acting a certain way just like "Karen" is targeting White Women acting a certain way.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:08AM (#23938506)
> And then someone uses it claiming, oh no, just because I used that name doesn't mean that it's meant to refer to Muslim or Arab people necessarily. Oh really? It was just a total coincidence? Come on, clearly not.

Suppose I use "Shaq" as a stand in for a generic basketball player. I'm obviously making reference to a specific famous basketball player who happens to be a black man, so is that racist and sexist? Asians can play basketball. Women can play basketball.

It's not chosen at random, it's chosen as an exemplar of the category. The original Karen (from /r/FuckYouKaren) was a real person named Karen.

> historically, it is sadly a stereotype that women's opinions are more petty and unimportant than men's. The use of the word "Karen" for someone with unimportant, ill-informed opinions is directly playing into an existing stereotype. And it is totally avoidable.

I don't think it is avoidable. If using a woman's name is sexist then so would using a man's name. Either way it would cause the reader to be more likely to picture the person with the contemptuous attitude as that gender. But so would not specifying one at all, which we know generally causes people to picture a male. So you have to make a choice one way or the other.

And if it's "fantastic" to select a female in the contexts where the subject is a meritorious student or engineer, sometimes it goes the other way too.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by quietbritishjim on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:20AM (#23939825)
> Suppose I use "Shaq" as a stand in for a generic basketball player ... is that racist...?

Assuming you mean a negative stereotype, so for example not just a basketball player but one who does it instead of studying academic subjects: then certainly, yes. Imagine someone saying "oh those guys won't have a clue, they're just a bunch of Shaqs". Even if Shaq is the name of a real person, the racist undertone is clear.

> ... so is that ... sexist?

Not so much, maybe borderline, just as Karen is only borderline racist.

> The original Karen (from /r/FuckYouKaren) was a real person named Karen.

I dispute that many people using the term know exactly who that Karen is, and even moreso the people hearing it. To most, it simply sounds like a generic name that white middle-class women are likely to have.

(After a little Google research it seems there actually isn't an original Karen. KnowYourMeme (not exactly a reliable publication but relevant here!) had a few candidates but no clear winner - in fact the main contender was just a bad comedian using it for an unspecific annoying woman. In a post I found on /r/FuckYouKaren itself no one had any ideas. But that's all irrelevant anyway, if people using the term don't know.)

> If using a woman's name is sexist then so would using a man's name. ... And if it's "fantastic" to select a female ... sometimes it goes the other way too.

Actually, by "avoidable" I meant there's no reason to use any name at all. But let's put that aside.

Look, I get it, I honestly do. Equality really means treating people equally, and that means if we're allowed to use a male name as an insult then we ought to be able to use a female one too, right? I actually do think it makes a lot of logical sense.

The problem is that it only makes sense if the current base line is men and women already being treated equally - then adding extra opportunities, compliments and even insults equally would preserve equality. In practice, current societal norms are absolutely flooded with little microagressions that subconsciously make men and even women themselves think of women as somehow less important than men. I remember a very awkward encounter at a team building exercise where a colleague (actually a fantastically nice guy) jokingly let me go first at something with a cheeky "ladies first" comment, only to realise a female colleague was actually nearby (near enough to cause a bit of confusion!). Note that one woman jokingly accusing another of being a man would never be an insult, even jokingly.

Yes I realise there's the odd extreme feminist that genuinely thinks men are less important or worthwhile than women (e.g. those that say that men accused of sexual assault by women should be assumed guilty). But those numbers are absolutely dwarfed by men who think less of women. In that context, your idea (allowing insults that reinforce stereotypes against women in the name of equality) does not make sense.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by ramblerman on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:05AM (#23937661)
That’s not the same.

I think it would be more like calling a random middle eastern terrorist a Mohammed.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:16AM (#23937733)
I don't know if you're not just getting there by starting there in that case. "Middle eastern terrorist" is already pretty racist.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by kevin_thibedeau on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:36AM (#23939292)
They have an established track record of killing people on planes. Might want to review some of the commandments and make sure your adherents abide by god's will as a good PR move.
[dead]
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by CincinnatiMan on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:16AM (#23938563)
You say Karens are always white or Asian. Would it be ok if we came up with a name for Black jerks, or Hispanic jerks?
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jessaustin on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:00AM (#23938906)
Middle-class white women also suffer the Karens. They might suffer less on a per-encounter basis but they have lots more encounters with Karens so it might even out.

If you haven't suffered the Karens, you might be a Karen...

When could society ever be characterized by an ethos of "let's tolerate people"? ISTM that now anyone might receive for criticism for objectionable behavior, not just poor black young men.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by xvedejas on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:13AM (#23937002)
I don't disagree that this hazard is real, but I also see the term used in non-racist, non-sexist ways too, sometimes with disclaimers that "obviously this isn't just white women and not all white women are like this". I realize I am likely in the minority thinking that context matters, but I want to provide my sincere stance that I think it's sometimes reasonable to call someone a Karen, assuming proper care is taken not to imply anything sexist or racist. I understand the term as meaning "busybody" more than anything else; in fact, you can use it to describe a person of any race or sex but you cannot use it for a non-busybody.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bbarnett on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:04AM (#23937342)
The problem is, people used to have non-gender, non-racial terms for people. For example, a person might be called an 'asshole' or 'bonehead', and this could be a person of any colour, any sex, age, etc.

Yet now, it seems all sorts are labeling people based upon sex, colour, ethnic background, etc. It is, quite literally, the definition of sexual, racial, age discrimination. It is linking "external characteristic" with "way a person acts".

I don't care what anyone's political stance is, but if you are using terms like 'Karen', you are 100% contributing to sexism, racism, etc.

Just call someone what they are. "Asshole" has worked fine for millennia.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by TeaDrunk on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:37AM (#23939296)
From what I understand the specific behavior is actually and intrinsically linked to the idea of a white woman in America and has historically existed for quite a while among black circles (from the 1800s at least). Discussing Karen as if it’s new belies the actual history of it. [0]

0. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/891177904/whats-in-a-karen

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bbarnett on Sunday July 26, 2020 @01:38AM (#23954706)
What a weird assertion, when you link to an article that asserts something entirely different.

The above NPR, states that a Karen is a new label, started in the 2010s (which is just last year, even). It also shows how the Karen label is different from other, prior labels.

It delineates how a Becky is different, a "Miss Ann" is different.

We've historically had labels like this for people, which are racially linked. But this is 2020, this is a NEW label, and other NEW labels keep popping up.

We need to collectively STOP this. No more racist, sexist, ageist, anything-ist labels. It's all wrong.

(Not saying you were defending label use... just clarifying my position)

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by TeaDrunk on Sunday July 26, 2020 @07:59PM (#23961097)
I’m arguing that the idea of a karen is not new, sorry to be unclear.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bbarnett on Monday July 27, 2020 @07:26AM (#23964043)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Slurs are not new. And as I mentioned, what you showed were not Karens, but 'white women who act poorly in certain ways'.

"Kaben" has unique connotations, a specific meaning. While I agree that "white women have had slurs" before 'Karen', I'm going to have to disagree that it's germane here.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by xvedejas on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:15AM (#23937406)
I agree that the term "Karen" has its genesis as an insult, and one designed to effectively aggravate the people it describes. It's not surprising to me that it's a word people reach for when they want the impact that words like "asshole" have lost. I don't know why you would call someone an "asshole" if you want to be genuinely mean.

"Asshole" is as common as salt in our everyday language, but "Karen" is the spice.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:01AM (#23937999)
> Just call someone what they are. "Asshole" has worked fine for millennia.

Except that Karens and assholes are different. Karens can be assholes, sure, but a Karen is a specific type of asshole. Football hooligans may be assholes but they're generally not Karens. It means something different, and there isn't another word that means the same thing.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bbarnett on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:36AM (#23938254)
Unless a 'Karen' can be an elderly aging Asian man, it's sexist, ageish and racist. Here's a few other such terms:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

A lot of these terms link specific behaviour, to specific ethnic/sex/cultural groups. I guess they're OK too?

I find it utterly disgusting, that some people think some things are 'one way'. That racism is OK, but only "one way". Sexism is OK, but only against men. The list goes on.

Let's see how long you last, if you see a lazy black person (they exist, like lazy people exist everywhere)... and you spout out "Bluegum!" Is that OK?

No?

Then why is it OK with 'Karen'?

You'd don't cure social ills by creating more of them.

"An eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind." is highly accurate, I think.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Nasrudith on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:05AM (#23938484)
For what it is worth I have seen Karen used as aggressively agender and aracially like referring to an obnoxious customer who was a black man as a "Karen".
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bbarnett on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:42AM (#23938763)
https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/ https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen

Maybe you're seen this. I haven't, and many people seem to have the specific definitions listed above.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by viraptor on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:40AM (#23939327)
An elderly Asian guy can totally be a Karen. We don't have another single word at the moment to convey the same behaviour in a different way. You can propose one and try to convert the usage though.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:26AM (#23938644)
> Unless a 'Karen' can be an elderly aging Asian man, it's sexist, ageish and racist.

Well then it's a good thing that it can.

> Let's see how long you last, if you see a lazy black person (they exist, like lazy people exist everywhere)... and you spout out "Bluegum!" Is that OK?

That is a racial slur. Its meaning is defined by race.

A Karen is defined by behavior.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by pj_mukh on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:52PM (#23935522)
“Karen’s on the central planning committee”

cries in San Francisco

So apt.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by gotoeleven on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:35AM (#23935767)
It truly is the golden era of officious busybodies.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by ashtonkem on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:40AM (#23935796)
Tangentially related, but a colleague just got their replacement of kitchen cabinets shut down by the local government for not having a permit. It’s baffling to me that the government requires that you get permission to do significant modification to the inside of your own home, especially for non structural work.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by PakG1 on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:58AM (#23935890)
What the heck? How would they even know? Neighbours reported seeing them carrying new cabinets in? The store reported it to the government? That's just weird.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by nitrogen on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:42AM (#23936140)
Neighbours reported seeing them carrying new cabinets in?

Something like this actually happened to a former colleague of mine. They installed a safety rail on their front porch. Someone complained.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jacobush on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:53AM (#23938397)
That’s at least outdoors
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by nitrogen on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:25PM (#23944627)
True, but children can run much faster than a permitting process.

Maybe in the cabinetry case there was a giant van with a company logo parked out front.

Either way, permits shouldn't be required for non-disruptive (and a van being in someone's driveway is not disruptive), non-structural changes to a house.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by ashtonkem on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:15PM (#23946080)
He gave the old cabinets away on Craigslist. Must’ve seen the posting and cross checked it against permits.

I’m aware that zoning and permitting laws have been an issue for a while (like a lot of Millenials I haven’t been able to afford to buy a home), but it does feel a bit authoritarian for the local permitting office to look for signs of “black market” modifications to one’s own property.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by eecc on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:32AM (#23937113)
Where did that happen?
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by ashtonkem on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:19PM (#23946091)
West LA, but after relaying this story to my family in the midwest I found out that my sister in law had to get permits to replace internal drywall. It seems like lots of local governments think they should have their nose in how one modifies one’s own property.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Gibbon1 on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:46PM (#23946228)
Welcome to home ownership. Location everywhere.

Most places like not places like Oakland, Berkeley and Santa Cruz County, this sort of thing depends on the neighbors. It's inane what neighbors will go running to the city for. Or not. Friend of mine in the east bay completely gutted and remodeled his house no problem. In San Jose neighbors complained to the city about a disused dishwasher in my garage.

[dead]
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by corty on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:54AM (#23936543)
Why do you assume its gender from its first name?
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by antonvs on Saturday July 25, 2020 @03:53PM (#23951900)
That smartass comment would work better if it made sense.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bbarnett on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:26AM (#23937083)
Outside of the parent's offensive sexist, and racist 'Karen' statement...

I really don't think people have perspective these days. You think this is the era of officious busybodies?! Seriously?

It's just that these days, things aren't covered up. Or, are seen more due to the Internet.

For example, you think cops are MORE violent now? MORE racist? HELL NO! No, no, no!

They're MUCH better than they were. Much. All of that needs to be stopped, of course, there's zero call for it. However in the past, you wouldn't even hear of it. A black man would be beaten to death, and it wouldn't even make the news!

Go find an older black gentleman from rural Alabama from the 50s, and ask him some questions. Compare that, and police treatment, to now.

So with respect to 'busybodies', I think you need to think back to small town American (and Canada, where I'm from), a mere 50 years ago. Canada is pretty much atheist now, and the US certainly is, compared to back then.

And along with all that religious baggage, came the 'holier than thou' lot. Said lot would always work to dominate committees, town councils, you name it. Religious groups would constantly rail on TV series, movies, even newspaper comics like the 'Far Side' would get hate mail, over crazy silly supposed slights.

The media was controlled, out of fear of retribution.

Oh no, nothing you complain about now even remotely compares to that. And while I say "You literally, clearly, have no idea.".. don't feel bad. Feel lucky you don't.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by nitwit005 on Thursday July 23, 2020 @10:38PM (#23935134)
Investors have proven willing to keep homes and apartments empty as well. The behavior seems bizarre to me, but it seems you have to set tax policies to discourage it.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by JamesBarney on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:29AM (#23936043)
I think this happens more often in places like San Francisco where the gains from investing in property is mostly appreciation and it's hard to get rid of a tenant. In this case it makes little sense to deal with the hassle of having a tenant who might live there for a very long time to potentially increase your returns by 2-3% per year.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by TheAdamist on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:10PM (#23935314)
If you are big enough theres some weird accounting incentive to keep it vacant. You can keep claiming it as an asset that brings in 10x dollars, even though your cash flow is 0x, so actually renting for 8x really hurts your asset value or some nonsense that im probably getting the details wrong about.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by dodobirdlord on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:13AM (#23936344)
The answer is more boring than financial conspiracy. Rents are sticky and both evictions and finding new tenants are a pain in the ass. Especially for a commercial space, better to wait a while for the 10x tenant than to settle for the 8x one.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Spooky23 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:38AM (#23940776)
It's not a conspiracy, just a murky business.

Real estate is the most "advantaged" businesses out there. They tend to support local political figures heavily and get heard.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by enchiridion on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:46PM (#23935491)
Right, which is why commercial lending is a farce in my opinion. It's more or less built on wishful thinking of future gains, leading to a lot of vacancy.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bobthepanda on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:53PM (#23935529)
At least in residential lending the problem is that the FHA has specific rules on what it will and will not guarantee, distorting the market in favor of mostly single-use residential.

Really we should pull that and the mortgage deduction, because at this point both distort the market in favor of people who can afford to own property.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bluGill on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:21AM (#23938596)
I suspect mortgage deduction will be gone in a few years. With Trump's tax reforms very few people take it, and so they won't be for it. If they eliminated it entirely now too many people remember it as good, but give it a few years to sink in that only the rich (or those living in California, which is itself a point against it elsewhere) take it, not you can get rid of it.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Ericson2314 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:41AM (#23940808)
Let's hope!
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by mensetmanusman on Saturday July 25, 2020 @08:36AM (#23948730)
Real estate is its own beast.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/how-kle...

tl;dr: post 9/11 criminal money laundering activity switched from banks to real estate

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by claudeganon on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:10PM (#23935309)
Because the real estate is being used as a value store for people moving money from overseas, engaging in money laundering, or as a hedge against other bets. Once exchange value is given priority over use value in markets for things like housing, you run into all kinds of nonsensical arrangements and deleterious social consequences.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by novok on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:36PM (#23935449)
And that is why you need tax penalties such as long term unoccupied property taxes and non-resident investor taxes to counter incentivize such behavior.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by claudeganon on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:49PM (#23935505)
I’m skeptical that taxes themselves can resolve the problem. The people who engage in these tactics are already quite good at gaming them. Housing would have to revert to circumstances like Japan, where homes are largely a depreciating asset.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by throw737 on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:02AM (#23935583)
Replace portion of income tax with simple property tax. No complicated stuff like "unoccupied property taxes and non-resident investor taxes".
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bobthepanda on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:32AM (#23935757)
Even better than property tax, land value tax.

Charging tax on property (building + land) mostly just disincentivizes more intensive buildings.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bluGill on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:27AM (#23938653)
The land value should be taxed, but it isn't a simple answer. Large buildings imply more people which mean more use of city services. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but I am sure simple answers that would fit into a comment box here are wrong.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bobthepanda on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:46PM (#23941644)
If you want to tax things to cover the cost of more people then it makes more sense to tax the people.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bluGill on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:21PM (#23942835)
You obviously need to tax enough to cover the costs somehow.

Tax is also incentive. You want to tax things you want to discourage more than things that you want to encourage.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by neutronicus on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:14AM (#23939756)
They should be, shouldn't they?

They're physical luxury goods that deteriorate as you use them, like cars. They appreciate largely because of nearby corporate and government investment (in office complices, schools, utilities).

That people make money off of them suggests that the government isn't being nearly aggressive enough about capturing the value it's creating here.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Spooky23 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:44AM (#23940844)
It is really weird. My home is a wood-frame house >100 years old. Although some aspects are better than new construction, it seems weird that the underwriting is basically the same as a new property given the term of the loan I just refinanced. Even insurance is almost the same!

I can travel a mile down the road and due to a "bad" neighborhood, many properties are literally negative value. They sit till they burn because demolition is more costly than the value of the land.

Markets don't price risk well. Housing markets definitely don't price capital investments or liabilities more than 5 years out well.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by claudeganon on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:35AM (#23940729)
Yes, I agree entirely. Removing socially necessary goods like food, housing, and healthcare from financialized speculation would resolve many that issues countries like the US face.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by eecc on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:35AM (#23937137)
Well, in NL you were allowed to squat a property if it was vacant for more that a certain amount of time. Then the local Liberals (Mark Rutte) outlawed squatting and it’s basically like the parent comment described.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by ashtonkem on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:41AM (#23935800)
It’s also related to financing reality. Commercial real estate is refinances every 10 years or so based on the expected rent. The math works out such that it’s far more reasonable to leave a unit empty with a higher rent than occupied with a lower rent, since the refinancing terms dominate the amount of lost rent.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by brendoelfrendo on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:06PM (#23935287)
Pretty much. Modern mixed-use developments are basically born again shopping malls. We don't have the density for "real" mixed use, so it's just a development project like any other; I'm sure there are real, integrated, mixed-use projects, but the ones I see in small urban/suburban areas are detached from the surrounding area and often detached from public transport, basically to sell overpriced apartments to lifestyle-minded HENRYs.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by senkora on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:30PM (#23935423)
Is that really a problem though? I'm imagining a mixed-use development surrounded by many blocks of single family homes and a large parking garage nearby, like a mall, that makes it easy for homeowners to access the development. (I think this is what you mean by born again shopping mall)

I live nearby one such development, and it's awesome (when there isn't a pandemic). There's a great variety of retail because they can rely on both local residents and homeowners who drive in, and it's thriving (when there isn't a pandemic).

More apartments have been built up around the development as it's grown, and while it's very detached from the urban center there is a bus route that connects it and the other apartments throughout the suburb to the light rail system.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bobthepanda on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:46PM (#23935489)
Mixed use neighborhoods of the past generally offer business diversity and lots of mom-and-pops.

A lot of the new mixed use developments where I live in Seattle are basically malls in how sterile and unvaried the commercial bits are. (New American upscale brunch restaurant? Check. Fad group fitness club? Check. Bank and starbucks? Check.)

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by sparsely on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:21AM (#23936672)
while i agree that there is a trend in that direction, they are still better than the status quo of separated developments.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by JamesBarney on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:30AM (#23936050)
What is real mixed use vs fake mixed use?
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AmericanChopper on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:02AM (#23935914)
> Like other similar stores, her rent went up 5x and she shuttered.

Want to know the best way to protect against exceedingly high prices? Increase supply. If the market had enough supply to meet its own demand, then that situation wouldn’t be possible. The number one thing that holds back the supply of real estate is insane zoning and planning regulation.

The idea that permanently preserving nonsense like the “character” of neighbourhood, at the cost of affordable housing and business rent has to be one of the most anti-social mobility, anti-equality, openly classist ideas we have in our society. “But what if somebody builds an apartment tower next to my expensive Victorian house?”, good! Maybe there’ll be less people sleeping on the streets and in their cars because of it.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jabl on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:15AM (#23936632)
> The idea that permanently preserving nonsense like the “character” of neighbourhood, at the cost of affordable housing and business rent has to be one of the most anti-social mobility, anti-equality, openly classist ideas we have in our society. “But what if somebody builds an apartment tower next to my expensive Victorian house?”

I'm sure there's that too, but a lot of it is a result of an "unholy alliance" of democracy and economics. For most people their home is the single most valuable asset they have. So they have an interest in maximizing the value of it. One way of maximizing the value is by increasing scarcity. And thus you have the well off people (as in, the ones who already own property in the area) packing the local planning boards, preventing higher density development. Or home owner associations with all kinds of anal rules how your house and yard is supposed to look and what you can do there, etc.

Of course, these types of incentive problems are everywhere. E.g. in my country, like I suppose in many developed countries, there's an under-supply of medical doctors. So how many doctors do we need? Hmm, lets ask the experts, the national medical association. Who of course has no interest in inflating the wages and job opportunities of their members..

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AmericanChopper on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:50AM (#23936834)
I always thought it was explained by local government elections generally having a low voter turnout, and homeowners having the strongest incentive to vote. But I’m not really sure that’s it, if you look at places like LA, local elections generally have very poor turnout, but in SF its actually not that bad.

The cynic in me thinks it’s just run of the mill political corruption. The cities where these problems are the worst have essentially been run by the same group of politicians for quite a long time, and they’re generally elected on platforms of caring about societies less advantaged groups. But time after time they get elected and incrementally make things a bit worse before being elected again. Which could suggest that you win in politics by simply saying the right things rather than actually doing them. But I don’t find that sort of “people are just dumb” line of reasoning very compelling.

In any case, the problem has gotten so bad in many places that’s it’s not possible to fix over any reasonable period of time. If you too imagine the most extreme approach of simply abolishing all zoning and planning regulations over night, housing prices and rent would certainly sharply decline. But then you would have a new problem of millions of mortgages being underwater.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by nitrogen on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:47AM (#23936184)
nti-social mobility, anti-equality, openly classist ideas we have in our society

But on the flip side, deciding that newcomers know better how to manage already occupied land is basically colonialism...

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by AmericanChopper on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:02AM (#23936288)
I hope you’re being sarcastic because otherwise this is incredibly contrived. Colonization is one country taking over the governance of another, typically without providing any representation or property rights to said nation/tribe/country/people...

Building housing to support population growth is not even remotely similar to that. Permissive zoning laws (or even better, no zoning laws) don’t even prevent existing residents from using their property their property the way they always have. The restrictive regulations are about making sure that all nearby residents also continue to use their property in a particular way. The idea that buying a house in a particular area somehow entitles you to make sure nobody else who owns a house or property in that area does anything to change it just seems completely insane to me.

A neighbour saying “you can’t build affordable housing on your property, because I like your property the way it is” sounds a lot more similar to colonialism to me.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by lazyjones on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:15AM (#23939052)
You accidentally described an even more practical solution than increasing the naturally limited (e.g. good commercial spots in the city center) supply: make neighbourhoods unattractive by building communist era style apartment blocks in beautiful areas to drive prices of victorian houses down...
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by hirundo on Thursday July 23, 2020 @10:52PM (#23935214)
Teaching karate is a death business? In my limited experience the martial arts are overwhelmingly about defense and fitness. Making them predominantly a life business. A donut shop would be a better example of a death business.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Spooky23 on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:00PM (#23935262)
Sorry, if you see a development with any vacancy, a martial arts place, and a subway/Chinese joint, that’s usually a dying development.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by stephencanon on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:42AM (#23938762)
Unless it also has a DVD copying or vacuum repair shop, in which case it's a front for money laundering, and the other businesses are window dressing.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by vmception on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:11PM (#23935316)
so all of the suburbs
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by kilroy_jones on Thursday July 23, 2020 @10:55PM (#23935232)
I think they meant a business that is destined to die. Could be wrong though.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by rapnie on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:49AM (#23936198)
The way I read it it was referring to the type of businesses that arise in already dying residential areas, due to the rent being cheap, etc. and individuals can start their yoga studio or karate doja and such. The businesses themselves aren't bad, but they are a symptom of a neighborhood in decline. Don't know if that is true, but that's how I understood it.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jessaustin on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:59AM (#23939553)
Also, these businesses don't need walls or public restrooms. If the floor is concrete, CVT, carpet, or whatever they still just roll out some padded mats. No one cares what the ceiling looks like or if the heat works. No remodeling required to get their tenancy started, and none required to replace them with a more lucrative business. Landlords are not afraid to sign up such tenants even if the rent they'll pay is low. A tenant like a dentist or coffee shop requires more complicated improvements, will be charged higher rent, and will signify that the strip mall in question is not dying.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by 082349872349872 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:48AM (#23940892)
The stoa was the ancient greek strip mall, and I suppose doing philosophy involves little to no remodelling. I can imagine the early stoics putting up resiliently with the misfortune of being moved on from each venue every time a better-paying tenant came along...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23767947

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jessaustin on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:44PM (#23945246)
Haha that's a funny image. I can't imagine that freelance philosophy pays much better now, so from now on I'll consider a professional philosopher to be another "death tenant"...
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by kilroy_jones on Thursday July 23, 2020 @10:54PM (#23935221)
Assuming you're in America, most areas are not dense enough to accommodate mixed use zoning unless they start building up. The other half is getting priced out like your grandma.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by moltar on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:55AM (#23935879)
Density is a function of zoning laws. They should just fix the zoning and make sure it has adequate density to support business.

I think citizens can vote with their dollar where they want to live. I hate suburbia, but I’m also not into super central downtown living. I want something in between. I’m ok with a townhouse and no backyard, as long as there’s a park nearby. I’m up for living with neighbours in a dense area, but only if I can get something for it, like shared neighbourhood amenities and small businesses in walking distance.

Montreal is a good example for North America. Not all of it is perfect, but a lot of it is mixed zoning.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by eecc on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:39AM (#23937156)
You’re talking about the average European small town...
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by JamesBarney on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:35AM (#23936098)
Why do you need high density for mixed use?

I live in Houston which is by no means very dense, and I love the lack of zoning laws.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bobthepanda on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:34AM (#23936758)
Houston doesn't have explicit land use zoning, but things like deed covenants that specifically limit land use and are enforced by the city, or extremely onerous parking regulations for high-density land uses, basically result in I Can't Believe It's Not Zoning.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by BurningFrog on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:17PM (#23935360)
The only way this story makes sense to me is if some other business took over the coffee shop space and paid the 5x rent.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by mook on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:27PM (#23935415)
It's also possible the new landlords internally drove out the tenant to not have to deal with the hassle of having a tenant. This could make sense if they wanted the building as a store of value and didn't care about the rental income. If nobody is there nobody will accidentally start a fire while cooking.

It would probably make sense for the city/whatever to incentivise against that.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by BurningFrog on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:54AM (#23939493)
OK, that also seems possible.

You this kind of thing in San Francisco, where decades of regulations banning and mandating everything anyone has ever thought of, makes doing nothing with a building sometimes the only remaining strategy.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bananamerica on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:40AM (#23936130)
Why is karate dojo death business? Do they kill a lot of people?
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Kliment on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:21AM (#23936381)
It's the kind of business that mops up empty commercial space, usually on a "until we find a better tenant" serial short-term rental agreement. See also kiosks, nail salons, vape shops, "outlets", pop-up shops etc.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by nonford150 on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:37AM (#23938724)
In many US metro areas, these are the first types of tenants who move into small strip shopping centers along secondary roads running through smaller suburban towns and cities.

I'm in NE Atlanta metro; it seems that you can't pass a traffic light without seeing a nail salon, a gas station, a cell phone store, and Subway. And these have been there for years right from the building of the building.

Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by EE84M3i on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:00AM (#23936908)
Perhaps the work required to convert a vacancy into/out of a dojo or similar is relatively simple? Sure you might need to put in a pair of locker rooms and/or and perhaps an office, but it's mostly empty space. Would something like that generally even have showers/plumbing needs?
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by orthoxerox on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:39AM (#23939316)
Because a dojo needs lots of space. If it's not an elite dojo it means the prices for commercial space have crashed in this location.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by jrd259 on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:53PM (#23935532)
It's not obvious why you have to call out the nationality of the investor.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by antonvs on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:05AM (#23935928)
There's some relevance in that investors like that are likely to have no ties to the community and no interest in anything other than profit. Of course many local investors are the same way.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by elgenie on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:25AM (#23936410)
Investors from outside of the community may not have interest in anything other than returns. “Investors” from an autocracy where future property rights can’t entirely be taken for granted may not be interested even in that; they could just want to hedge their government risk by parking some money in non-seizable assets located outside of the country, and then minimize any resulting management headache.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by Nasrudith on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:13AM (#23938536)
Do investors inside the community neccessarily care any more than ones outside it? It brings to mind the stupid xenophobia of thinking being oppressed by "their people" is better than having open elections where an immigrant can run.
Re:Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods by bluGill on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:35AM (#23938707)
Investors inside generally have different incentives. They are close enough to drive by and see how things are doing. Wreck the building and they will notice. Investors from outside can be fooled.

Also if the investor is just looking for a place to save money outside of their unstable country they may be better off losing money on the deal!