Doesn't align with my experiences, at all. Every single runner and cyclist I know (including myself) uses apps to track their activities. Notebooks are simply not as convenient as automatic GPS tracking. I understand why notebooks are sufficient for lifting, which has long rest periods to record relatively simple measurements. But it's a different story for lots of other sports.
Strava alone has something like 50 million users, and for good reason - it's an incredibly effective training tool.
As a powerlifter, I completely agree with the OP. When I first got into resistance training, as a techie, my inclination was to try all the apps and gadgets. 3 years later and I realised that the old timers had it right, the best tool for resistance training is a pencil and a notebook, maybe backed up by a spreadsheet to track long-term progress.
1. As a consumer, I would like to have such an editor / viewer for my phone, is there something alike for traindown?
2. Functionality-wise, wouldn't a nice editor/viewer app necessarily be a subset of spreadsheet-like app and isn't traindown then competing against such a more general app? (Not that I know a single FOSS spreadsheet app, so I'm speaking hypothetically)
I think the issue here is that you never really stuck to a single app and used it long term. I was in the same boat, I pretty much tried all the apps, bought an Apple Watch, but nothing really satisfied my needs. In the end, I just stuck to one app (Strong), and kept using it. It's not perfect, and there are things that I'm missing, but in the end, it always me to track all my lifts and shows me the progression. It's indeed something that I could quite easily do with a notebook (although I won't have the fancy graphs), but I already have my phone with me to listen to music, so might as well use it to track.
Along with rough tracking of calories -- I ignore things like green veggies and coffee -- and weight and I'm golden.
For me, Strava is more about tracking my individual runs and keeping up to date with what friends are doing. Monitoring any actual training, for me at least, is easier with paper and a spreadsheet.
There's also a number of things you can do with an old Android smartphone and some common apps that create GPX format track files, if you want to import your ride paths into Google Earth pro on a desktop PC, without uploading to a cloud based service.
You don't need some $400 bike computer and a cloud based service to achieve a high level of road cycling fitness. Have a good digital scale at home. Track your cumulative riding distances and average speeds. Eat healthy, etc.
Having an offline log and metrics to compare your own performance against is extremely useful. Data and information can be a powerful motivator to compete against yourself to improve your average speeds, climbing times and so forth. Where I disagree philosophically is whether that data needs to become a subscription you pay forever for, or if your data needs to ever go out to a third party.
And I really disagree. Maybe one doesn't need a good cycle computer, but the stats and motivation that brings is invaluable. Seeing the actual data instead of just an average/total at the end is very useful.
I used to track my hiking miles back in the day. All it did was justify poor eating habits or give me a false sense of pride.
This is useful for those who don't find working out in itself to be a rewarding activity and may have a hard time sticking with it otherwise.
I'm just interested in being fit (which I achieve with just shoes, and going for a run every ~3 days), not in achieving peak fitness or optimal training strategies.
I believe others benefit from tracking, which is fine too.
> Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps.
[citation needed]
The argument basically seems to boil down to "fat lazy slobs should just give up".
Everyone's "journey" (sorry, I hate the term, too) starts somewhere. This kind of thing is exactly what some people will need. I have no idea if $500M will turn out to be a good investment, nor what % of Mirror buyers will get into fitness long-term. But the reality is that some/many of them will, and it's pretty silly to imply that someone using a gadget to get into fitness cannot or will not learn to prioritize fitness, learn skills, how to manage their time, all these things you tout.
If Strava makes it more fun for some people, then that's absolutely fantastic. However, I see a lot of people (new cyclists in particular)that want to micromanage all of their exercise, and it seems like it causes them anxiety.
I lift weights, and as someone who is not bulking (nor have I for a few years), I don't keep track of my lifting. I just lift in the volume and weight that feels good to me. Exercise science is kind of a wasteland anyway, so detailed data on one's workouts isn't even particularly useful information.
This has never worked for me. The extra push is exhausting, and then I use that as an excuse to skip the next day, and eventually the habit breaks.
Don't overexert yourself, do only the amount that feels good and keep it easy so that you're not turned off when you need to do it again the next day.
Once you've built up a habit, you can slowly ramp it up, but trying to go too fast has always caused me to stop altogether. If you go slowly enough that you don't notice the additional exertion, you're much more likely to keep your habit.
Contrary to popular soundbytes, you actually can improve without pushing yourself too hard. It's weird going from barely being able to run half a mile to running five miles without getting seriously winded, but it does work, and you don't ever need to feel winded in the process. If you start to feel bad, stop. Don't beat yourself up if you didn't get as far as you did yesterday, just do it again tomorrow.
I was only ever able to do this slowly. Overexerting myself always failed.
As for fun... Eh. I've gotten to the point where I feel restless if I haven't gone running, so then I go run and shower, and then I feel great. But the restless itching feeling is the habit that makes me want to go, not fun in the moment. Maybe running is weird.
Find something you like! It can be any activity that requires some exertion! Canoeing! Trail hiking! Boxing! Street hockey! Soccer? Bouldering! There's so many different forms of sports and activities and there's going to be one both fun and challenging for you enough to make it part of your daily life. That's what you need.
That's not my argument at all. In fact I'm reducing the entry cost to achieving a fit lifestyle and explaining what's actually important.
You don't need any apps, you don't need to pay a monthly subscription for a digital service. Maybe you might have to pay a membership fee at a gym or a boxing club or some place you can go to do to the thing you want to do. The local canoe club, who knows.
I'm proposing these apps are like fad diets, people will pay for them, see they don't work, and move on to the next thing, perpetuating failure and bad outcomes. I predict this $500m investment will blow up as a failure, that was more the point I was trying to make.
People just need to fix their behavior. They need to find an activity they like, prioritize it, create a routine, and make it part of their life. People have been doing this since before apps existed, and it's all it takes, and apps can't do that. You have to do it for yourself.
For me, as a longtime occasional cyclist (get into it for a few years, stop, restart, etc), once upon a time (1 year) competitive college athlete, but mostly lazy slob.. it involved my wife buying the Peloton bike .... then 6 or 8 months later when I was regularly biking to work, but still gaining weight... started seeing a personal trainer.. he encouraged me to track what I eat, and I've now been using myfitnesspal for 3 years. You could point to any one of these things as being what did it for me; obviously the structure and advice from seeing a trainer was crucial, but #1 on that list for me was MFP, so yes, an app (and a free one at that!) The feedback loop of what I inputted there showing up on the scale the next week was addictive. It was the first time anything really "worked" for me. #2 on that list is the Peloton, in particular once I started doing Power Zone training, where I could join a team, stick to a schedule, and quantify performance gains that I can now see when I set personal records up local climbs on my road bike. I'm also in a running club and compete on the road and cross-country.
Again, everyone's path is different, and I absolutely could have done any of this on my own, but I'm 39 years old, and the reality is, I didn't until I started using an iPhone app. And the data and quantifiable results of my various forms of training are what keeps me going, and reinforces those habits.
> what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. You have to know how to prioritize, fitness has to be in the top of that priority list, you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine. You have to know how to manage your time, how to get enough sleep, how to eat, how to move your body - like how to hip hinge for example - what activity you enjoy, how to achieve goals. A fitness app isn't going to do any of these things for you.
Powerlifting as a sport is full of gimmicks and fads, the post struck out to me as calling out these gimmicks and fads and to return to the basics and bare essentials with the lowest barrier of entry, which to me seems to be for a good reason as the fads often come across as gatekeeping the sport and raising the barrier to entry in general, which begs the question, is it gatekeeping to call out such gatekeeping behaviour? To put it another way, would it be gatekeeping to suggest that healthy weight people don't need to follow fad diets to remain at a healthy weight? Is it gatekeeping to call out often times harmful fad diets? Is it denigrating to the people following said diets? The implication seems to be that it's wrong to gatekeep even if the purpose is to caution against spending money on gimmicks or fads that might not be the best way to achieve a persons goals.
The quote says literally that you "have to" do all these things and they "cannot be derived from apps".
> This isn't entirely true of course as some apps have started incorporating programming and technique information as well as dietary information etc and can provide live coaching services at a premium, but this is starting to get beside the point.
It's not beside the point, it is the point. The quoted claim is wrong. Everything the quote claims you can't get out of an app, actually you can.
> the post struck out to me as calling out these gimmicks and fads and to return to the basics and bare essentials with the lowest barrier of entry, which to me seems to be for a good reason as the fads often come across as gatekeeping the sport and raising the barrier to entry in general
I don't see how offering an app to do x is gatekeeping, unless someone tries to suggest that that app is the only way to do x (which is not something I've seen happening). Whereas saying that you have to do x the traditional way and anything else is never going to work, is absolutely gatekeeping.
> To put it another way, would it be gatekeeping to suggest that healthy weight people don't need to follow fad diets to remain at a healthy weight? Is it gatekeeping to call out often times harmful fad diets?
If you claim that the only way to maintain a healthy weight is the way that you do it, that's gatekeeping. If a specific diet is harmful then by all means call it out, but if you start making blanket - and false - claims like diets can never help anyone, or all diets other than the one you like are fads, then that's gatekeeping.
> The implication seems to be that it's wrong to gatekeep even if the purpose is to caution against spending money on gimmicks or fads that might not be the best way to achieve a persons goals.
That wasn't the purpose that came through in that post.
People like the idea of doing something (in the case, becoming fit). They are not fit. This causes brain distress. Brain wants to do something about this dissonance, so brain says, "oh, I can buy a very expensive item that is a tool for becoming fit. Ahhhh, there is some relief to my dissonance." And then you buy the mirror and continue to not train, but your brain feels some sense of completion.
This factor has been studied. https://interruptions.net/literature/Wicklund-BASP81.pdf
This factor I have observed in my own behaviors first-hand.
So I agree with you, this is a far larger market than people who think about correct movement and actual gains.
But, I must admit that peloton is pretty motivational. We got a cycle right before the pandemic, mostly because we have a newborn and it's hard to find time to make it to the gym.
I was surprised, but I think I work out harder with it than when I am just out for a jog myself. Sure, when I really feel like pushing myself on a run, I can work out just as hard. But there are also lots of times when I'm just forcing myself to go out and exercise and I don't put everything I have into it. With the peloton cycle, I feel like I get into the workout much quicker and rarely just go through the motions.
People on normal bikes can buy a 'smart trainer' ($400-1200) and already have many options of connected apps (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-a...), the most popular of which is Zwift.
I use Zwift and Trainerroad. However, I don't think these actually compete with Peloton. Peloton is like going to a gym class. You just follow allong, and show up when you want to and go mostly all out. It's a nice workout, but often not aligned with long term goals. But TR for instance one gets a tailored plan based on one's race goals that season.
Otherwise I wholly agree with you (am also an [amateur] powerlifter) - the one thing these apps undeniably cheat their users of is owning their own fitness. They prey on the type of person who does not know how, or even doesn't want, to take ownership of their fitness and instead signing them up for a generic routine that might get some results, but ultimately the gratification that they are doing _something_ at least.
Though I am quite biased and a snob about them, I will happily admit.
Many people cannot stick to a solo workout routine. These people benefit a lot from classes. Fitness classes provide many positive things:
- relationships with instructors & other students
- peer pressure to show up and work hard
- regular schedules
- prevention of injury from bad technique
- variety of music and routine which reduces boredom
- incentive to work hard to maximize benefit from financial expenditure
Together, these things improve the quality of life for participants. Fitness classes benefit society. Someday, human society will progress to the point where personal fitness is an expected part of personal hygiene, like brushing teeth and showering. At that point, fitness classes will be universally available, affordable, diverse, and extremely engaging.
Now, I’ve got a home gym, and I bought a subscription to Les Mills. It’s been great and I look forward to getting sweaty for an hour. It’s not perfect and I’m certainly not getting into perfect physique but I’m definitely getting great cardio, becoming more flexible, and gaining strength. Don’t think I am being taken advantage of or being denied “ownership of my fitness” when in fact it’s the absolute opposite.
Nothing, if that's what you want. What I'm referring to is this idea that subscribing to one of these services and getting whatever results you get from it is "it". I would be much better impressed by any service that educates the subscriber about even the basics of nutrition and physiology instead of just pushing their LCD programs like they are the silver bullet.
FWIW I don't look down on Peloton, I think it's actually a great service. Lots of people working out in a class-like virtual environment is great as I am confident a lot of those who partake wouldn't go to the gym to do the same otherwise, for whatever reason(s).
These Apps and Services are for
1) People who want 'to feel good' i.e. they did something for their fitness
2) People who want to transition from knowing nothing about fitness, to knowing something
3) People who want to develop a habit of fitness. Keeping tracking of things is critical
What gets Measured Gets Managed (peter drucker, google it)
4) people who are absolutely clueless and want to know where to start
a good example is the Water app. IT was super simple. 10 glasses of water. As you drink a glass you tap it and you can keep track
To someone who is very fit, it makes zero sense. They already have a routine and a habit
On the other hand, for the 98% of the population who don't have a very healthy and very disciplined routine, that is an app that can be super valuable
*
Please keep in mind that IN ANY ACTIVITY
the vast majority of people have ZERO interest in being Arnold Schwarzenegger of Fitness or Warren Buffet of investing
they just want to go from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to even a tiny bit of competence
EVEN if it is just a feeling
This is definitely more activity than I was doing before the watch. According to the Health app on my iPhone, my average daily walking distance is 2-3x post-watch than pre-watch.
Turns out I'm as susceptible to psychologically manipulative gamification as any other random person.
I'm a marathoner (running 40-50 miles most weeks) and have a Strava subscription. I also have an Aaptiv subscription which I enjoy for core workouts and other ways to cross-train. My Garmin triathlon watch records data into the Garmin app where I also engage in challenges with friends and activity data is forwarded to Strava (and Aaptiv via Garmin -> Apple Health).
The gamification and content in both apps cause me to train more and harder. Strava in particular makes running social for me when I can't run with others.
I wouldn't buy Mirror personally, but I have very seriously been contemplating Peloton.
> you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine
Unless an app creates the routine for you.
> You have to know how to [...] move your body
Unless you have an app to show you how.
These apps also set goals and record progress for people who don't know what to aim for. Between that, the gamification, and competing with others, this can be enough of a motivation for folks that wouldn't otherwise be part of the "make it your top-priority" and spreadsheet-tracking crowd.
Fitness apps are very common among "people who are into fitness". In lifting, running, cycling, and other realms. Your No True Scotsman claim doesn't mesh with reality.
I lift three times a week, and have for years. I use and very much enjoy Fitbod. It tracks my activities in a way that would be a giant pain otherwise...why would I use a notebook and a spreadsheet when there are tools perfectly suited?
I use a Garmin watch for track my running/biking, and it does play a role in inspiring me to lift my ass up. The metrics are what I find to be fun, and they even help me compete with myself to do better every single time. I agree that Mirror is an overpriced commodity that 90% of us don't need, but there are always people going after the 'fancy' stuff.
Always in fitness you have a group of customers who are not into fitness and making an aspirational purchase. However, there is also a group (probably larger than the hardcore weightlifter types) of fitness-oriented people who aren’t trying to lift heavy weights and they use apps, workout classes, and HIIT training with light weights.
Peleton/Mirror suit this group well. Both of my parents - who are older but fit - do almost 100% of their workouts on the Peleton now. My roommate, a former D1 athlete runs and does fitness classes via app. In both cases they were doing this before COVID, and quarantine is obviously causing many others to embrace this as well.
What do you make of Strava? Tons of elite runners and cyclists use it. I use it, Garmin Connect, Elevate, and various others to track my fitness. I would say that the vast majority of people who are "into fitness" use apps to track their fitness.
That said, I think the market of weight lifters with good technique who use barbells is much smaller than the market of casual weight lifters/gym goers.
Show me a runner without a Garmin (or similar)
Also, several of my friends use Strava or similar apps to great effect wrt their biking and running.
It's nearly always a mistake to assume your personal experiences or perspective are universal.
Got a link? There are a bunch on the App Store with that in the title.
The app per se is a little rough around the edges, but imho that's moot; I've followed its guidance for stretching and reps and rest days, and it was gratifying (and motivating) to track my progress to 100 consecutive pushups and beyond. Enjoy! :)
Tracking food, sleep, and my weight has been really helpful. It lets me know what I need to adjust to meet my goals.
Tracking my walking/running data is pretty useful as a motivator to improve.
Its easier and more convenient to track all of these things either automatically using sensors or manually on my phone in an app than it is to use a spreadsheet.
I don't really like using apps to track my strength training though.
It sounds like you’re mostly thinking of strength training, which is one of the areas of fitness that is less well-served by fancy technology.
It's amusing to see this wave of products; does anybody remember Wii Fit, the balance board, Playstation Move, etc? There's long been a market for gizmos and gadgets that are intended to make physical activity more "fun" via gamification. There's always going to be a market for the latest fitness fad, and the trick for any company wanting to make a buck here is to keep evolving their "gimmick" to recapture imagination every so often (rather than selling a single trick which people will get tired of eventually).
I think these toys may actually help people become more fit, FWIW. Some people only need a little nudge to get moving, and a gizmo might just do the trick. Anecdotally, I feel like the most successful gizmos in this class are the bicycling video games, which may have to do with the fact that the core elements of the sport are easier to simulate well than most other activities.
For many people screwing about with gear and new toys is a big part of having a hobby. This includes both people that are good at their hobbies and those that aren’t.
> As a powerlifter
This is what's called "projecting". Other people who are "into fitness" are not into it the same way you are.
Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. You have to know how to prioritize, fitness has to be in the top of that priority list, you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine. You have to know how to manage your time, how to get enough sleep, how to eat, how to move your body - like how to hip hinge for example - what activity you enjoy, how to achieve goals. A fitness app isn't going to do any of these things for you.
These things are ridiculous. As a powerlifter I'm trying to imagine what intelligent doo-dad they'd try stick with us, and the most interesting things I've seen are the bar velocity tools, but unless you're strong enough to compete, I doubt you give a shit. I don't think barbell sports are a billion dollar investment market though for a gadget.