No, this is your assessment of user experience. It’s opinion, not fact. Perhaps some $50 wired headphones sound better but different people value different things.
For a long time I thought “pft what’s the big deal with AirPods, I’m fine snaking the headphone cable down my shirt when I go for a run”. Then I bought some on the recommendation of a friend. For me the user experience is far from substandard — it’s great. The charging case means they rarely run out of juice, the tap to stop/start and Siri is great for running, they sound good, I can walk around the kitchen while cooking with them paired to my laptop, I find them comfortable, etc.
Fashion: I don’t care. What I’ll look like didn’t factor into the decision to buy them at all. As it happens I can easily afford them but didn’t buy for a long time because I don’t like to spend frivolously.
In short: just because you think AirPods (or Apple?) sucks doesn’t mean others don’t find them valuable.
Ok, 3.5" headphones are objectively: cheaper, simpler mechanically, more reliable, easier to use, easier to connect to different devices, never run out of battery or require charging, you can't lose 1/3 of them, and oh, yeah, they tend to sound better at the same price point. They tend to sound much better at the same price point since all you need to focus on are coils and membranes, not bluetooth stacks and batteries and inductive charging coils. A set of Shure SE315s will blow AirPods Pro out of the water on sound quality and noise isolation.
Yes, wireless headphones are wireless. That's all though. You can achieve all the rest with the jack, but you could achieve all of that wireless while the phone still had the jack.
None of this makes AirPods Pro a platform. They're neat wireless headphones. Among the best wireless headphones probably. But that's still all they are.
I've used AirPods Pro, and I've used me SE535s with an inline mic. It's gonna be SE535s by a country mile for me, even to the extent I have to go through the additional hoops of stupid dongles to hook them up. [1]
> Ok, 3.5" headphones are objectively: cheaper,
I don’t care. I’ll pay for convenience. This phone was a thousand dollars!
> simpler mechanically,
Why would I know or care?
> more reliable,
You may have a point here, but the convenience of wireless overrides this for me.
> easier to use,
What about that horrible wire? It gets tangled in my pocket and I rip my headphones out when I run.
> easier to connect to different devices,
I only have one device.
> never run out of battery or require charging,
I charge my AirPods Pro every few days. This is a non-issue.
> you can't lose 1/3 of them,
But I mangle the wire on my old headphones all the time, so this feels like a fair trade-off.
> and oh, yeah, they tend to sound better at the same price point.
I’m neither an audiophile nor particularly price conscious.
> A set of Shure SE315s will blow AirPods Pro out of the water on sound quality and noise isolation.
I’ve never heard of those and wouldn’t know where to buy them.
> Yes, wireless headphones are wireless. That's all though.
This is such a naive statement. I’m sorry, but it totally ignores everything that Average Consumer wants.
> None of this makes AirPods Pro a platform.
Not yet.
> They're neat wireless headphones. Among the best wireless headphones probably. But that's still all they are.
Once you’ve tried a pair of truly great wireless headphones you’ll never go back.
Yours, Average Consumer
It's not accurate to describe the average consumer as being in the thousand dollar phone market. They are premium products, and not one that the average consumer can afford. That's one reason why Apple's phone global market share wavers around 10-15%.
Not everyone buying an iPhone today is buying a current, model (carriers are selling back to the iPhone 8), even if they are the base iPhone 11 is about $700 not $1000, and even flagship models are often bought on promotion with steep discounts (AT&T has one with, in the right circumstances, a $700 discount on the 11 Max Pro, bringing it to around $400 on the promo.)
> Ok, 3.5" headphones are objectively: cheaper,
Perfect, I have no money.
> simpler mechanically,
That's nice I guess
> more reliable,
Neat
> easier to use,
Oh yeah I can just plug it in, easy.
> easier to connect to different devices,
Yeah I can just plug it into those, lots of stuff has that sound hole.
> never run out of battery or require charging,
that's true, plus I couldn't use them while they're charging, so if I forget it's a big issue.
> you can't lose 1/3 of them,
That is something that could happen.
> and oh, yeah, they tend to sound better at the same price point.
I'm no audiophile so I'd probably spend less to still get a decent pair.
> A set of Shure SE315s will blow AirPods Pro out of the water on sound quality and noise isolation.
$300 is pricey for mini-speakers
> Yes, wireless headphones are wireless. That's all though.
They play noises too I've heard.
> None of this makes AirPods Pro a platform.
Okay.
> They're neat wireless headphones. Among the best wireless headphones probably. But that's still all they are.
Okay.
I guess my point is we can make up any kind of person, call them and average consume and present them with thoughts and opinions that match our own.
Your comment was nothing but dismissal under the name of 'an average consumer'
Yours, Average Consumer
Isn't it also almost like discussing the average consumers is a way to consciously limit the scope of the discussion so that it isn't about some <1% of the world's population?
Did you mean for "Average Consumer" just to be your name? Because an average consumer certainly did not pay $1000 for their phone. Already here you represent an outlier.
> What about that horrible wire? It gets tangled in my pocket and I rip my headphones out when I run.
About 20% of Americans engage in activities like running or jogging. Again, you're an outlier.
> I only have one device.
https://www.cisco.com/c/m/en_us/solutions/service-provider/v...
I can't say for sure that you're an outlier hear because these figures represent a mean and not a median. I'm taking "the average consumer" to mean "the median consumer" because "the mean consumer" doesn't exist.
> I charge my AirPods Pro every few days. This is a non-issue.
https://www.ifpi.org/downloads/Music-Listening-2019.pdf
Again, I'm not sure that you are an outlier here because of averages vs medians.
If you spend 18 hours per week just listening to music, If even half of that is spent listening to music from your only device, you'll be charging your airpods at least twice a week.
If airpods are additionally used for calls, some two hours a day, you'll have to charge them even more often.
If AirPods are an ubiquitous platform for augmented hearing, "adding context" to what you hear, you'll be charging them at least twice a day.
I should have made it clear that I am in Australia. AU$1k ≈ US$700.
This seems promising, in case anyone has an account: https://www.statista.com/statistics/283334/average-smartphon...
> I don’t care. I’ll pay for convenience. This phone was a thousand dollars!
The average US smartphone consumer is paying like $500 (substantially less anywhere outside of North America) and saying their limit is substantially less than even that, if you look at both actual average price data and surveys of what consumers say they are willing to pay, so (1) not buying a $1000 phone, (2) not aware of how much they are actually paying for a phone, and (3) not as willing to pay extra for convenience as you suggest.
I'm happy I can easily use my headphones with a 9mm plug on my crappy work laptop as well
The internet really needs to get off it’s high horse about this. The fact is 99% of people can’t tell the difference.
Just like 99% of people don’t care about the headphone jack being removed. This is evident by the market mocking Apple and then following Apple when they realised that it’s true.
This is very true too. I agree.
No, they absolutely can, they just don't think the difference is worth the cost. That's not the same thing.
> Just like 99% of people don’t care about the headphone jack being removed.
[citation needed]
I'm glad you're happy with your setup and choices. It wouldn't work for me but it does for you. That's all that should matter to you.
On this point, wireless headphones are massively superior. You only need to plug in wireless headphones when you’re not using them. You need to plug in wired headphones all the time when using them. This enables things like “using two hands to carry an object across a room, without wearing a pocket, while listening to headphones”. This is a huge practical upgrade that most people find impossible to give up once habituated.
And that's exactly what makes them easier to use and better sounding if you don't sit still.
Wires get caught in clothes and tend to pull on the earbuds. They scrape and bang against clothes, chin, neck and chest, making a lot of noise in the process.
Does that mean I'm going to pay hundereds for headphones or believe in Excalibur - sorry AirPods - as a platform any time soon? Unlikely. I guess I'll just continue to put up with the occasional bluetooth pairing issues.
Not sure about that part - especially for bigger (over-ear) headphones. My last 2 pairs of wired sets all died because the cable or connector inside the headphones got loose due to mechanical stress. Resoldering was not an option since it was not possible to open the case in a non destructive fashion.
At least that failure-mode does not exist in bluetooth headphones. And so far I had not an issue with my pair (but it's only a year old). But long term the battery might certainly become a potential issue.
Wires are a pain. They get tangled, they mean your phone and headphones need to always be close (which adds a certain amount of friction, once you get used to the alternative), but most importantly (for me) they get caught on things all the time.
They are throw-away products. Just look at all the original 1st gen AirPods which now see their batteries failing - each one by itself is small, but given the sales numbers it's huge mountains of electronics trash.
For the price of AirPods you can get a good pair of wired headphones which can last 20+ years. Replace tips or ear cushions as needed, on good headphones they are easily replaceable. No batteries or protocols or codecs to ever worry about.
But even back in the iPod days, I hated wired headphones when I was running or doing anything at the gym.
And how are they “easier to use”? I open the case, they pair to either my iPad or iPhone without a manual pairing process. I put one in my ear, it changes the sound to be monaural from stereo. I also don’t have to go through an unpairing process for it to connect seamlessly to my watch, iPad, iPhone, or AppleTV.
People apart from tech-people or audiophiles don’t really care about the points you listed or if they do, the convenience that comes from the wirelessness is more important.
This means AirPods as a stand-alone business is somewhere between a $5B-$15B/year.
[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-airpods-pro-production...
So the entire narrative that Apple hasn’t released a successful product since Cook took over is provably false. Both the Watch and AirPods lines are larger than the iPods ever were.
http://www.asymco.com/2019/12/12/ipods-pro/
Yes I realize that the $4 billion quoted in the article was for the Christmas quarter.
The utility value of AirPods or similar products is way higher. They are easier to use because they don’t need plugged in. They provide a superior user experience because you’re not tethered. They are easier to every-day-carry and thus always available.
There will always be exceptions: audiophiles, etc. For most of us, it’s no contest.
Shure SE315s headphones are for audiophiles. I have 3 pairs of the cheaper model. I love them.
AirPods are for on-the-go. Since getting a dog, I've become addicted to podcasts. AirPods are fantastic.
> easier to connect to different devices
Then I heard rumors about Apple coming out with noise cancelling AirPods about the same time I was getting fed up with my “open office”. As soon as I read the first reviews of the AirPods Pro, I ordered them. I have no regrets. The integration with iOS, noise cancelling, transparency mode, control with the stem, etc is great.
While controlling the volume without having to use Siri would be nice, for me it’s not a big deal, I just use the crown on my Apple Watch.
Well, all the things I just listed.
It may be true that I could get 90% of the functionality of AirPods for half the price, but that would mean researching what to buy, dealing with incompatibilities, and losing 10% of the features AirPods offer. But I loathe researching what to buy and dealing with wonky hardware. I'm fine with paying a bit of money to avoid these hassles.
So while $160 is not "cheap" I felt confident that a) I'd get something I liked, b) that they'd work well, c) that I was okay with spending $160 on them. Would I spend $320? No. But I'm happy with what I got and what I paid. You or anyone else might not be, and that's totally fine as well.
Technically they are amazing. I mean look at how small they are.
But they are not a platform. They are not superior headphones, they excel because they are small. not because they do anything better than any other headphone. I've not mentioned sound quality because that's full of mysticism. Airpods to me sound fine, in a low noise environment.
I have bluetooth headphones, they work, they are sound isolating. They look like shite, and so do I when I wear them. I use them commuting, in the office (sometimes) and when I'm cleaning or doing DIY (30db is attenuation means I can listen without going deaf.) I bought them because they are noise isolating.
However I curse when they run out of battery. I curse when I go through congested 2.4gig areas.
As for value, fashion is a value. People buying them because they look sleek is a value judgement. Loads of people think they are valuable, otherwise this article wouldn't have been written.
They are superior headphones because they are small. Being small is part of their qualities as headphones, not apart from them.
The error you’re making is a very common one here - reducing the product to its base functionality description rather than looking at how well they have been implemented. You think they’re bettered by better specs on paper like custom moulding, but paper ideas don’t always achieve a better user experience in the end.
I think AirPods are a revolutionary achievement in user experience. I haven’t used wired since. The form factor and the pairing are peerless.
Or people just really like the convenience of well implemented wireless headphones.
I agree with GP about the tech journalism. I find it funny that the usual cast of journalists that write these articles have been doing so for years and stand to gain a lot from Apple's success, and are deeply embedded in Apple's press organizations.
I run a 3rd party Bluetooth earphones (not headphones) and honestly I find them nicer to use than AirPods because they’re comfier, stay in the ear better, have equivalent battery life and I prefer the sound “colour” too - though that’s in part because they fit better so the sound is better channeled down the ear canal.
My point being that there are a lot of great earphones (and headphones) on the market. In fact it was already quite a saturated market even before Apple entered into it. So people shouldn’t be so quick to assume that Apple are the best in class nor even the only high end audio manufacturer worth looking at.
Even the top of the line and extremely well rated Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones will only connect (not pair) to a single bluetooth device at a time. If you want to switch audio from your laptop to your phone you got to manually disable the connection on one device, and connect again on the other. That is quite clunky if you have like 3 PCs (work/home) and a phone and would love to use your headphones with any of them.
As far as I understand the Airpods might at least not require to manually disable the connection when switching to a different device. But I can't say for sure, since I don't own a set.
As an audiophile I also don’t think Sony are the greatest example because in my experience Sony haven’t been making the best audio equipment for several decades (despite their price point and cult following).
For example last week I was playing around with some cans which literally mapped the inside of your ear then created a unique sound profile for the wearer (they also did all the same features as AirPods too).
Also I don’t think that’s a good enough argument for downvoting comments that are quite literally factually accurate.
You're taking it for granted that you have some specific needs, know how to evaluate the product space for those needs in mere minutes, and are happier with a cheaper product.
Frankly, having owned various bluetooth headphones over the years, what I always love or hate about them isn't something I knew until I owned them. How much I like/hate their button UI, how they fit and stay in my ears, how reliably they pair or handle bad connections, if they can work through my thick kitchen wall so that I can leave my iPhone in the living room, etc. aren't things I can just research ahead of time. Yet they are 99% of what matters to me. Makes sense to me that people just cough up the $160 for the almost unanimously-loved Airpods instead of enduring the trial and error of evaluating buds.
Though at least with Apple, their brand is more visible and generally more consistent so I can see why people might consider it less of a gamble than buying a comparatively priced audio brand.
I actually have no issue with AirPods specifically (aside that they don’t come with a selection of silicon gloves for different ear shapes - that’s standard with every other earphone but it’s an extra cost with Airpods). However this is a technical forum and the last time I checked it was considered proper etiquette to discuss similar products when similar products do exist. Which is what I did.
As an aside, it’s a real pity the media machine is so obsessed with Apple because there are genuinely some really interesting earphones and headphones out there from independent companies making real innovations in audio tech. But they often get overlooked now that Apple have entered the earphone market.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Other people aren’t like you. They care more about what Apple is doing with AirPods than about what other companies are doing with their headphones.
I think you’re judging comment unfairly. This is a technology and business forum so the entire bloody point is to talk about technology and businesses. Yet for some reason when it’s a topic about Apple hardware people get really defensive if you happen to mention the competition (like one normally would in any other HN conversation). That’s not my issue; I’m not the inconsiderate one here.
But like I said, I’m own a lot of Apple hardware myself and do see the appeal of it. I also wouldn’t vote someone down if they offered some input on other hardware out there :)
“Frankly, most people find accusations like that pretty insulting.” ;)
Like I said, I’ve been open minded. I don’t feel others have shown the same respect in return.
Also, FWIW, I haven't been downvoting you (I can't, since you're the first descendent on my responses).
EDIT: found the comment I had in mind:
> Indeed but I’ve got my own theories about what’s happening here and I think it’s less to do with people being open to alternative suggestions and more about protectionism of the Apple brand.
FWIW, my take is that people who enjoy the Apple brand proposition (spend more, but you'll generally get a very high level of attention to detail and things will mostly just work) are pretty sick of people who enjoy tinkering telling them that they're idiots for buying Apple. This comment of yours kinda gets into that territory by suggesting that people are downvoting because they're upset about challenges to the Apple brand (which is a petty and childish motivation) rather than they just don't share your priorities.
I’m sure if you look through other Apple threads you see a similar pattern of comments that aren’t negative nor factually inaccurate but still get downvoted too. I see it happen a lot on HN these days and frankly I’m sick of people abusing their voting privileges.
I'm not an apple fan, I hate using my work Mac and refuse to buy another iPhone after trying one for two years. But the airpods are the bomb even in spite of the substandard speaker quality. Anyone who has to use their headsets to talk any length of time are doing themselves a disservice if they've never used airpods. In fact I'd say that the airpods are the only thing apple has gotten fully right since Jobs.
they don't have the same exact feature set, though. airpods just work, reliably. no fiddling, no repairing. No frustrating set up. That's what you're paying for. The extra 80% of effort for that last 20%. And for many people, it's worth it.
FWIW, if you think people buy Apple devices because of lists of features, you’ll simply never be able to make sense of Apple’s success.
...but that sounds good to me? Was that supposed to be a negative point why to not buy their products?
APP also has an interesting pass through mode where there is some noise canceling, but sounds like voices are highlighted.
Why, assuming they’re not playing anything or have noise cancelling on?
IIRC people were mocking the first generation of airpod because of their ridiculous look, and people adopted them in spite of their look. Now that they are more mainstream it’s easy to forget.
1) first gen have no noise isolation/cancellation, which means I can't use them in noisy environments.
2) I have children. They will be eaten, played with and generally put places I am not party to.
3) pros have noise cancelling, which is ok but they don't work in places where peak noise is 75 db+ (ie loud train/car), The noise isolation is uncomfortable to get a good seal, though its less for some people.
But again, you are missing the broad thrust, they are headphones, not a platform.
In Germany, it seems to be mostly a status signal of young teenagers, who wear them constantly. Was probably the most requested gift in my daughter‘s class, where everyone is around 12.
Don‘t see that many grown-ups walking around with them.
So I don’t know about the platform thing, but wireless wins in the end, always. Because bitrate is just one detail that isn’t so important anyway.
For similar reasons, I listen to a lot of music on my Sonos, even if it has poorer sound quality than my stereo. It’s just so convenient.
But.
My mother is over the moon with her airpods (not pro) and the iphone 5s I gave her a year ago: now she can watch tv, listen to music and sit where she fancies without worrying about anything else.
Yes, she is short of hearing. This device despite having alternatives just solved her problem.
The alternatives may be there. These things are just known, easy to use and useful.
but they are not a platform.
They are 150-250 bucks a piece. If people are wearing them as status signal then we have real gone downhill a lot.
$200 dollars is a lot of money for a device that in most cases will last a year or two and there are plenty of alternatives that do the same for a fifth of the price. Especially in the context of teenagers using them as a status symbol.
My point is, a status symbol is something unachievable by most people regardless (like a Yacht or a Ferrari). An airdpod can be bought by almost anyone in the US if that's their priority.
If your question is “Doesn’t everyone have disposable income?” The answer is no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
A $1000 watch (not computer) may be a status thing. A $1000 computer is not.
But it also seems incontrovertible to me that Apple gear is a status symbol. Some people really do buy them for the fashion angle, including the phones. One being true doesn’t preclude the other.
People have been saying that Apple devices are a status symbol since the iPod was introduced in 2001.
You can even by AirPods via installments with T-mobile. Anyone can afford them.
Besides, Apple has 50% of the phone market in the US and it’s even larger once you move up the income scale. Statistically, anyone who is an “influencer” would have an iPhone.
So if you had a handheld $35k device would that be considered a status symbol in the US? Maybe but not a $1k one.
1. Because I hate wires, absolutely detest working with them.
2. The listening experience of AirPods is great. The noise cancellation opt-in mode is sufficiently great. I sit in a bus, turn cancellation on and boom people are just moving their lips.. There is a little bit noise I can happily ignore.
3. They fit in my ears very well. I have tried a lot of variations of headphones over the decade and the AirPods fit more than good enough (surprisingly).
4. I love the case it comes with, easy to transport.
5. Charging levels are great for my need, 5-8 hours listening to podcasts, some music and playing games.
"AirPods is a Platform" in that article is a bullshit, here I agree - while there's no apps running on the device, it's not a platform.
But their quality is not "substandard", far from it. And they have a lot of features, not just noice cancellation. There are reasons to love them and you didn't even try to find full description of their features before complaining.
All wired earbuds can have "non tangle wires" with the correct method of storage:
- Place the buds in your palm
- Make the "rock" sign with the hand they're in, trapping the buds with your two middle fingers
- Wrap the cord around the two outer fingers in a figure of 8 motion
- Pinch in the middle to remove from your fingers and place everything in a pouch of some sort
Now when you want to use your headphones again they will "magically" not be tangled!
Of course this doesn't stop them getting tangled up in stuff whilst in use, and does require that you have a pouch for storage, but it is the best technique I ever learned for saving myself from the frustration of having to untangle a mess of wire when trying to use my headphones.
The user experience is still amazing with the airpods, despite all their problems: battery life, sound quality. Etc... The airpods have hit on a balance of usability and tech that was much needed.
Also, I love my airpods and I've only ever used an Android phone.
Small and wireless has been a desirable trait for a long time. I think you're underselling that a bit.
> they are still a substandard user experience compared to 3.5mm jack and decent headphones
A lot of people disagree with this. A lot of people prefer the portability of small wireless music over big cans with "better" sound.
You had me going right up to the punch line.
- leave your phone in one room, on the charger, keep listening/talking in another.
- keep listening in the shower or tub.
- keep listening outside, phone inside (or vice versa).
- don't need clothes with pockets
- put on a soft hat that covers your ears, and nobody knows you're listening (better security)
- give one earbud to a friend and listen to the same thing.
- silent disco applications
3-15 years is a long time, and wireless earbuds will evolve. For example, imagine that they support 10+ hours battery charge, or WiFi for longer range, or "sync" multiple sets of earbuds to create a true silent disco, and on and on.
AR glasses may be complementary to wireless earbuds, not a replacement: this provides better battery life and features/roadmap for both devices.
Whoa, that little? Any recommended places to look into this?
A strong claim, I know, but hear me out.
1) these are very small bluetooth headphones.
2) They only work when attached to a smart phone
3) They are still headphones.
Another thing to note is that they are still a substandard user experience compared to 3.5mm jack and decent headphones ($50+ with non tangle wires)
Bluetooth headphones are great if you want to not have to fiddle with wires. But, they are capricious and run out of batteries.
The pros have both noise isolation _and_ reduction. But, they are still let in a boat load of noise, especially speaking.
For long term use, you have to sacrifice isolation for comfort. For the same price as airpod pros you can get custom moulded in ear monitors. 35db of noise reduction, and they don't hurt.
The real selling point of ear buds is the fashion part. People are wearing them because they are a signal of how rich/successful they are. (in the same way people wore those shitty ipod ear buds.)
As for a platform, what are they going to do to be useful? "intelligent noise"? but that requires situational awareness that doesn't exist on smartphones yet.
They will be swept aside as soon as decent AR wearable pop onto the scene. Be that in 3 or 15 years.