I think it's because people are realizing they have sold their entire lives to their jobs and they get emotionally overwrought when they realize a company they have some products from also sells products they will never be able to afford. I think it's the pain involved in realizing they didn't get enough money for the life they sold.
I'd be interested to hear of a workload that is unsuitable for the iMac Pro that is suitable for the new Mac Pro, but for which you think a $5k machine should be capable of doing. Then let me know what $5k machine exists on the market you can buy that can do that workload.
You can upgrade the RAM after purchase by going to an authorized repair store, or by reading a couple of iFixit guides if you're fine with doing it "unofficially".
MacOS is now stuck to using AMD GPUs only.
> The iMac Pro clearly fits the needs of 99.9% of people who need some horsepower in their work - video editing, pro photographers and coders who want a ton of VMs or whatever.
The entry-level model is $5,000 USD, RAM can't be added later and there's no option for an NVIDIA video card.
Even in rich countries, that's clearly not what 99.9% of people want in a desktop computer with "some horsepower".
Unofficially, you can do it yourself.
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac-pro/imac-pro-faq/ima...
Also there is a big difference between “it can’t be done” and it “cost more than I’m willing to pay”.
That is the question and their mode of business. I am not aware that they are required to perform work on random Macs brought to them and they are pretty scarce. Which brings us to point #2:
Also there is a big difference between “it can’t be done” and it “cost more than I’m willing to pay”.
Yes, it is better than "it can't be done". But it is a strong limitation of a computer, if the pure work price for exchanging a memory module or a SSD is $300. And requires to find a service center which can do the work and probably a longer stay there. Even on most laptops, such actions are a matter of a few minutes, and on most desktop even much faster and normally user-doable.
It certainly doesn't meet the needs of people who prefer a headless solution and prefer their own displays.
My iMac has a good processor but the graphics card is severely lacking. Not sure how far the one of the iMac Pro goes in comparison to a good mid-range desktop card. In general, I consider the Xeons of not a great value for many usages, especially now with all the new AMD processors.
But the biggest catch is, that most parts of the machine are not updateable. To add to the insult, the machines are glued together, so that you cannot easily reach the parts which are. With the iMac Pro you are limited to Apple-provided SSD storage for example. So certainly the iMac Pro is a nice machine, but not really a replacement for a plain desktop.
Also, aren’t you “valuing form over function” by complaining about it ruining the “ultra sleek” aesthetic of the computer? Isn’t that a complaint lobbed at Apple?
I think there's still a desire for a "midrange" headless Mac between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, but that's been something people have wanted for many years -- it's pretty clear Apple doesn't think there's enough of an addressable market there to make it worthwhile. (I also think people underestimate how much power you can actually stuff into the current Mac mini as long as your work doesn't require a serious GPU.)
Whaaaat.
That's nowhere close to a reasonable price! Playing around on PCPartPicker [0], I can get a 12-core Ryzen 9 3900X, 1TB SSD, 64GB of RAM (expandable to 128GB later) and a RTX 2070 Super all for less than $2k. Sure, the monitor is worth something - but 50 percent?
I do think that the upper range iMac is one of the best value Macs, but it still suffers from being glued together.
The iMac Pro doesn't allow any of those things. There used to be a target display mode which was awesome and solved at least one of those problems, but Apple removed it for technical reasons, and now even though newer display port protocols now exists with enough bandwidth to drive the 5k display from my macbook pro, Apple has made no mention of bringing it back.
I have been wondering why they dont just keep making the Trash Can Mac Pro and call it Mac. Sort of like a Cut down version of Mac Pro and reusing as many component as possible, except swapping the Xeon Processor for an normal Intel Core X or i10.
I mean they invested the whole production lineup for Mac Pro Trash Can, might as well continue doing it.
I don't really have any opinion on this, but cult-like outrage over a company that markets themselves as a cult isn't something that users can be blamed for, generally.
So many here hate it because it’s form over function.
I think that is the general point GP is trying to get at. As a consumer, you consider many factors to base your purchase on and if a product doesn't meet your needs, then you don't buy it - that doesn't warrant that you have to "hate" it or tell others how stupid their decision is for buying something, especially when interacting with strangers on the internet.
Hate is a strong emotion that consumes a lot of energy, so why waste it on a product? To me, this is part of the overall cultural landscape of tribalism and in-groups. Just as there are product evangelist, there seems to be a good number of anti-evangelist (I see it among my own peer group). People like to be seen as "knowledgeable" about this tech vs that tech - in their minds, they feel as if they are doing a public service by bashing... sorry "critiquing" products for YOUR benefit so that you make the right purchasing decision.
I've played this game myself when I was younger and always advocating building your own PC, explaining why this is better than that, etc. As I get older, I don't have time to evangelize - I just choose the product I want to use based on my needs and I understand that other people have different needs, so I don't let their choices affect me. I notice that others feel "hurt" and "anger" when you make a decision that they wouldn't have made themselves, with many people getting too emotional about a consumer purchase.
Anyways that's just my 2 cents.
1. People can just choose not to buy one if they think it's poor value.
2. Do we have actual concrete products from other companies that are similar in terms of specs and warranty and software and show the Mac Pro to be substantially overpriced? (NOTE: I have no interest in looking at a home built machine with no warranty. Anyone spending > $10k on a machine needs it to work. All the time.)
Your parenthetical is also important; the target market for the Mac Pro (and that Dell) is very, very tiny and it's just not going to be comprised of people kit-bashing stuff they're picking up at MicroCenter.
Wouldn't you agree its a problem if people are spending money on an option that have better alternatives? Call it consumer education, activism, whatever ...
Whats more, Apple is a standard setter. They make decisions that others tend to follow because they have such a huge market that everyone wants to partake in.
Just imagine if we introduce the product under a different name, would people buy them? If not then we are putting such a high price on the brand name.
I personally don't buy anything anymore...
> Just imagine if we introduce the product under a different name, would people buy them?
That monitor and stand are selling because they cost significantly less than what people have been paying. Monitors of that class were being rented for hundreds of dollars per week.
I guess, but that doesn't change the fact that its dumb.
Angry online comments about Apple have led me to believe that the people making them are either:
a. tweens sitting around the 2019 equivalent of a cafeteria table, or
b. adults who never grew out of the SNES vs. Genesis phase
One of those is embarrassing, the other is pathetic.
It could also be that they're broke-asses who are jealous of people who can afford Apple products but that doesn't make sense because there are very few similar comments about other luxury products-- though they do exist.
ps. Genesis does what Nintendon't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just have to hope others grow of the consumerism faction wars as well. And I like to wonder how many people realize they're arguing online with children.
[EDIT] actually I think it's similar to the reason some people get pissed off over over perceived mismanagement of fiction franchises—if anyone could tell a story in a given "universe" they probably wouldn't care much if some of those stories were (from their perspective) terrible or misguided or misunderstood and misrepresented the characters or world or whatever, but when only one entity is allowed to tell those stories and define the direction of the "universe" it bothers certain fans a lot if they get it "wrong", and in fact almost any given piece of related media is likely to make someone unhappy in a way and to a degree they wouldn't be if that were just one of many options, rather than the only option.
[EDIT EDIT] and in both cases the problem is monopoly control over a very particular product. Yes you could watch other movies or use another OS, but you'd much rather that one simply be better (in your opinion) so you could stick with it or so, in sticking with it, you'd be more pleased with the product, because it's your favorite.
Or they just have lots of money and like Apple products. As long as Apple isn't bleeding cash to the point of going bankrupt making it... who cares? It's no different than Honda making the NSX or Ford making the GT. It's definitely not moving the needle for their revenue but it sets a statement for the company as a whole.
> there are two kinds of things: things people complain about and things they don’t use”[1]
The short answer is that people complain about macs because they use them.
Maybe there’s something more universal and fundamental about product choice and brand loyalty at work.
Nowadays the keyboards break. The UI is full of arcane non-discoverable features. Upgrading is a total crap shoot. It might make things better, or it might make things that have been running reliably for years suddenly stop working. And if that happens, it's really hard to go back. (On an iOS device it is usually impossible.)
The competition is even worse. No one makes a computer that Just Works any more. And that makes me sad.
The keyboard fiasco was pretty bad though. Hopefully that's coming to an end.
There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it can irritate people who see users artificially constraining themselves to the much more limited, much more expensive Mac ecosystem because they don't want to commit to the one-time cost of learning another system.
This is easily mitigated in PC land since you can customize your computer. Not so with Apple's computers.
It doesn't matter much for cross platform people. But for people trapped in the wall garden, I could see how it can be infuriating.
Just because Apple's got the most expensive tools, doesn't make them the best.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
My machine at home is also Windows because I play games on it that aren't available on macOS or Linux.
So I assume that people who buy Macs are running XCode, Omnifocus, and other Mac-only bits of software and likewise people choose Linux because it's the best choice for the software they want to run.
So what's the point of OS arguments in threads like this? Frankly, all the modern operating systems are good enough. What matters are the applications that can run on top of the OS, no?
1. Inability to just plugin any set of monitors and make it work (mind you I've used Linux in various capacities dating back to Slackware in 1998 - I CAN totally do the OS nerd thing, but in 2019, why should I?) 2. The Apple ecosystem (I can login with my watch, receive calls and send texts from my desktop, my Airpods work seamlessly with all my devices, etc)
Also, if somebody makes a good high-end blender, they're unlikely to change it in any substantial way every 5 years.
Actually, in fact, to belabour your trivial example, I suppose if I did have a particular blender I liked. The best blender in the world. That blended my foods like no other blender, was quiet, quick and nice to look at. Now, if it was an ingrained part of my life, like if I enjoyed making smoothies on a daily basis, or some shit, and the manufacturer released one that only plugged into some kind of "brave" new power socket standard, and would crack if I say put nuts in it, then if my blender broke and I had to go through the whole rigmarole of going to find a new one, going to various stores, and trialing various different brands (because rememember I'm very fastidious about my blender), yeah I'd be pretty put out. Maybe this all sounds a bit stupid, but so was your analogy.
> going to various stores, and trialing various different brands (because rememember I'm very fastidious about my blender), yeah I'd be pretty put out. Maybe this all sounds a bit stupid
It does sound stupid when you apply it to blenders, computers, or just about anything. Why is it less stupid to be fastidious about your computer than your blender? I get that being a careful consumer is just smart especially when what you are buying is expensive, but soul searching implies a whole other level of involvement.
People tie their identities up in the products they buy. I've been thinking about this a lot since the dustup where Scorcese expressed his opinion about Marvel movies and their production system. Some Marvel superfans got very upset and it makes no sense to me.
My 2014 macbook pro is still going strong. That's how good the old macbook pros were. I didn't have to "think" about what computer to get, just get a Mac. It was a risk-free, if significantly more expensive option.
Now I have to go through this whole procurement process, and at the end of it I'll be stuck with either Windows or Linux, neither of which are as good as MacOS.
EDIT - and I am in a position to make this comparative analysis, because I use all three on a daily basis. Which was my original point.
EDIT again - I meant "soul searching" in a fairly hyperbolic sense. It doesn't keep me up at night.
In old G5 times, the entry level Mac Pro even was ever so slightly cheaper than the iMac with the same processor. You traded no included screen for extensibility.