More hours are for show.

We aren't robots. Having a late night today effects my work tomorrow.

There's a reason that what we now call "mass shootings" used to be called "going postal."

Whilst a lot of employers will have you opt out of the working time directive as part of an employment contract, you can opt back in at any time, limiting your max hours to 48 a week on average:

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maxim...

There was an example from UK, now for Poland:

* 40 hour week (anything above is overtime paid +50% more for first 8 hours during week and day, in weekends or night it is +100%)

* 20 or 26 (depending how many years you have worked in your life, usually after 2 years you get 26) + 13 public holidays.

* women after birth get 52 weeks off (plus their usual vacation), dads get 2 weeks off to be used during 2 years (the 52 weeks can be split between parents, so a mom can go to work and dad can stay with child for 32 weeks)

* on top of that when you are sick and go to doctor he/she can prescribe you a time off (sick off?), which is additional to your normal vacation (this is not limited to any number of days, e.g. when you break your leg you can be a year sick/unable to work), but pays 80% your salary

>> Normal working conditions for an employee

Basically not anywhere except government-related positions.

And I'm thinking of leaving because as a new company in a larger group they still don't give us meal vouchers like the rest of the companies in the group.

LUL! Those are amateur numbers, buddy. I do 11-6 maybe, and work at a big 5 tech company making big 5 tech company salaries. And frankly, we aren't working a lot of the time during the day either.

And yes, we have the "unlimited" vacation, which usually results in people taking about 4 weeks a year, on average.

I think people underestimate how easy it is to work at some of the big tech companies.

Big 5 tech companies are pretty great.

Out of curiosity - any downsides to your working conditions? You seem pretty happy about everything.

How is it that everyone that I talk to, knows what I am talking about when I say those words, but apparently you don't?

So it would be Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, and maybe Netflix depending on who you ask.

And yes, I know that is more than 5 companies. It is a shorthand for "those prestigious, large tech companies that new grads apply to, and hire lots of people, and have large market caps".

If I talk to any new grad who is applying to companies these day, they will know what I mean when I say "big 5 tech companies".

This is a very common term in the interview/tech market and discussions.

The fact that this is how people use these words, makes it the definition.

Lots of people in the real world know exactly what it means when people say "big 5 tech companies".

You'd have to be extremely obtuse to not know what people mean when they say those words.

* Admittedly would swap Netflix with Microsoft in the FAANG acronym.

After a couple of more years like that wouldn't you get used to not doing much and then get slaughtered when inevitable change came around?

My friend referred to this kind of situation as "being in an ass" ;) Yeah, from time to time there's a smell but it's always warm, comfy and soft ;P

Maybe without unpaid overtime and burnout, developers will finally have the chance to contribute to open source and side projects that recruiters are always looking for.

Burnout sucks and being exploited sucks. I'm all for unlimited sick days, being compensated for all the work and time you put in, getting the benefits that you're guaranteed by law etc. In exchange for that I sure would expect the employer to expect me performing well. Quid pro quo. The USPS example didn't imply that imho.

EDIT: Did I misunderstand a joke or something? Doesn't seem like I said anything particularly controversial.

I'm not for exploiting people if that's what you mean. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Is it possible that someone behaving that way has legitimate reasons to do so? Sure. I mean I've been wrong before :P It's that I (personal experience, anecdata) didn't encounter many situations like that is all.

If some employer is taking advantage of you you should quit. I do understand that not everyone is in a position to say 'fuck you' to a person/entity that's taking advantage of him/her and that that's a situation a union can help in.

You pay me for 40 I'll give you 40 You want 80 then you pay me for 80

My wife was on an assignment in South Korea and she experienced the 16 hour work days there. No one even blinked when you tried calling your colleagues at 11:00pm.

However, what my wife noticed is that most of the people working those hours seemd drousy, unfocused and inattentive. It boggles my mind how either of the sides of that work contract can think that that kind of situation is beneficial for either of the sides in any imaginable way...

Even sled dogs owners give them plenty of rest or they stop doing a good job and you think it would hurt human performances?

how is that awesome? the productive output of the most productive time of their lives is 4 times less. It would be truly awesome of course if they productively worked only 25% of the time with your efficiency and spent the rest 75% on say education, new tech learning, skills improvement, side projects... Unfortunately, i suspect, their time is simply wasted 4 times less efficiently than yours - may be using less efficient tools, processes, nobody cares about anything in particular because there is no point in improvement, etc...

I myself work in a very similar environment, a non-FAANG BigCo, my effective productivity is order of magnitude less than it was at previous jobs in particular because we're moving with the speed of midday sleeping flies, and moving any faster would create huge impedance mismatch causing systemic structural stress painfully affecting everybody. Such slowdown isn't good even in the short term as it makes your mind into a mushy soup zen-like diffusing through your skull and merging with the swamp around.