> Wouldn't you get lazy after a couple of years? Doesn't this create incentives to deliberately work more slowly?

Maybe without unpaid overtime and burnout, developers will finally have the chance to contribute to open source and side projects that recruiters are always looking for.

Whoa whoa I'm not sayin people should be treated like shit. Just that that USPS example didn't really look all that good.

Burnout sucks and being exploited sucks. I'm all for unlimited sick days, being compensated for all the work and time you put in, getting the benefits that you're guaranteed by law etc. In exchange for that I sure would expect the employer to expect me performing well. Quid pro quo. The USPS example didn't imply that imho.

I guess we can test that. How many USPS developers are open source mavens?

EDIT: Did I misunderstand a joke or something? Doesn't seem like I said anything particularly controversial.

Several are unpaid Linux kernel contributors.

And many thanks to those guys for their work!

You would get lazy having a 40 hour work week and 2 weeks paid vacation?

No way. Unpaid overtime sucks. Burnout sucks. What I meant was that that USPS job description sounded to me like a cushy, untouchable asshole replying to emails passive aggressively every other day from 1200-1235hrs.

I'm not for exploiting people if that's what you mean. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Assuming someone's job is easy, without knowing much about it, and therefore believing they must lazy isn't a good look.

Well, I'm just drawing from my own experience here. Usually when I worked with people that behaved that way it turned out that that behaviour steemed from their untouchable-ish status.

Is it possible that someone behaving that way has legitimate reasons to do so? Sure. I mean I've been wrong before :P It's that I (personal experience, anecdata) didn't encounter many situations like that is all.

This seems like a masochistic justification for being exploited by employers

Yeah, well, you might be onto something here. I've been told I've not acted in my own self interest a couple of times before :P

Idk about you, but I don’t work hard out of fear of losing my job. I do it for the respect of my coworkers more than anything. It’s totally viable to be lazy in a non-union job too.

Sure thing. It's just that that USPS job performance description didn't really sound all that respectful of your coworkers is what I'm sayin'.

If some employer is taking advantage of you you should quit. I do understand that not everyone is in a position to say 'fuck you' to a person/entity that's taking advantage of him/her and that that's a situation a union can help in.

Don't you guys have families over there? How do you raise your children if you enjoy those crazy hours? Even 40 is too much, I actually want to see, enjoy and teach my children while they grow up. Time goes by incredibly fast.

It enforces the 40 hours a week. That's the job you are paid for. Working 16 hours a day..7 days a week is not lazy. It's a recipe for burn out. Working hard for the 40 is what is expected and should be exactly that.

You pay me for 40 I'll give you 40 You want 80 then you pay me for 80

Facebook and Google certainly pay for 80 then. The average senior engineer there definitely makes at least double what someone at USPS IT does...

I don't think working 80 is either sustainable or even possible for that matter.

My wife was on an assignment in South Korea and she experienced the 16 hour work days there. No one even blinked when you tried calling your colleagues at 11:00pm.

However, what my wife noticed is that most of the people working those hours seemd drousy, unfocused and inattentive. It boggles my mind how either of the sides of that work contract can think that that kind of situation is beneficial for either of the sides in any imaginable way...

You get lazy when you get so tired you can't work anymore.

Even sled dogs owners give them plenty of rest or they stop doing a good job and you think it would hurt human performances?