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Re:Slack was down by nixgeek on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:24AM (#20555523)
Wish we wouldn’t use such language, “sucks less” is highly subjective and your opinion but we don’t need to disparage Slack in order to make a point that alternatives like Zulip are available.

Seems like especially poor tone on an outage thread... “Don’t kick them while they’re down” or something?

Re:Slack was down by allana on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:27AM (#20555561)
2GB of RAM use for 6 open tabs in Slack is pretty awful, their desktop client has set the bar to compete with Slack on performance very low.

This abusive resource usage has created a dislike of Slack among a subset of its users.

Re:Slack was down by timdorr on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:29AM (#20555580)
They actually just fixed that in 4.0: https://slackhq.com/introducing-a-more-efficient-slack-deskt...

I'm currently sitting at 400MB total usage (including helpers) for 4 workspaces.

Re:Slack was down by MisterTea on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:49AM (#20555834)
400MB? Not bad for a chat client that sends a few bytes of text.
Re:Slack was down by SergeAx on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:38PM (#20556468)
Still 10 times more compared to Telegram) Not to mention transfer speed and bandwith usage.
Re:Slack was down by timdorr on Monday July 29, 2019 @04:18PM (#20558923)
This is on my Mac, whose apps aren't exactly known for memory efficiency.

Fantastical, a calendaring app, is sitting at 333MB.

1Password is taking up 168MB in the background.

Finder, which I don't even have a window open for, is eating 127MB.

I'm not saying 400MB is amazing or anything, but it's a significant drop from the gigs of memory wasted by previous versions.

Re:Slack was down by user5994461 on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:18PM (#20556950)
Aren't your coworkers sharing 10 MB gifs all day long?
Re:Slack was down by qrbLPHiKpiux on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:33PM (#20557112)
The reason I don't like twitter because of all the dumb reaction gifs.
Re:Slack was down by dymk on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:44PM (#20557237)
Still can't blame the browser when it consumes a gigabyte of ram, when we ask it to show us a gigabyte of gifs
Re:Slack was down by Aaargh20318 on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:44AM (#20555771)
400MB for what basically is a client for a proprietary version of IRC is ridiculous. How much memory did BitchX use ?
Re:Slack was down by mr__y on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:06PM (#20556034)
while I don't remember how much memory did BitchX use, I do remember that a whopping 8 megs of ram was enough to run mIRC with 20+ channel tabs without serious glitches. And those precious megs were used not only for the irc client but also for the OS itself.
Re:Slack was down by bluedino on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:35PM (#20556424)
I have irssi reporting 25232 mem used
Re:Slack was down by xeromal on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:40AM (#20555719)
Half a gig for IRC + gifs
Re:Slack was down by asark on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:43AM (#20555752)
Seriously. Oh, good, now it's only 4-5x as large as it has any right to be, even allowing for modern software bloat...
Re:Slack was down by allana on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:44AM (#20555765)
Such is the nature of slightly optimized Electron apps, T-Mobile Digits Desktop app is a similar resource hog.

Using the browser based version often is less resource intensive.

Re:Slack was down by lugg on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:14PM (#20556911)
Tried that, they actively employ darkpatterns to coerce users onto desktop apps. I even asked them to stop asking for an app install on their links that you open from inside the webapp and they told me to get stuffed and use the desktop app.
Re:Slack was down by allana on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:30PM (#20557090)
Yea, I use Matrix integration when I deal with Slack, that way I have my choice of client and there isn't any code of Slack's running on my machine.
Re:Slack was down by KORraN on Monday July 29, 2019 @04:26PM (#20559036)
Strange, after declining message about "native" desktop app, I've never seen it again. No other issues as well. Firefox 69 on Windows, one paid and one free workspace.
Re:Slack was down by allana on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:42AM (#20555743)
How is CPU and I/O use on the newest version?
Re:Slack was down by mh- on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:31PM (#20557092)
About the same, for my usage.
Re:Slack was down by allana on Monday July 29, 2019 @03:14PM (#20558278)
Ooof, I'd hope they would have improved CPU use when handling lots of GIFs. Tusky and Mastodon's web frontend handle pausing offscreen GIFs pretty well, my fan doesn't spin up at all (unlike Slack's desktop client last I used it).
Re:Slack was down by DangerousPie on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:50AM (#20555849)
I can honestly say that I have never checked or cared about how much RAM Slack uses. Or any other software for that matter. It's certainly not an issue that I'd use as the basis for deciding which team communication tool to use.
Re:Slack was down by IggleSniggle on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:56PM (#20556715)
Yeah see the people that are caring about this are caring because it has used up all of their available RAM, has pushed stuff into Virtual Memory, and it is causing performance problems for their system. Or, if they are IT, it is causing performance problems on their users' systems.

This is a pretty reasonable complaint when you're talking about a system with 2gb, and a chat application that uses 1.5gb of memory...or heck, a 16gb system when you have programs that legitimately need as much memory as you can give them and are being starved of it. Nobody would begrudge this usage if it was necessary for the task, but it isn't. Not even close.

Edit: Apparently this is better than it used to be, but there have been times when Slack also ate up CPU like crazy. Which, again, no biggie if you have plenty to spare, but when you don't...and even then, if you have plenty to spare, you're still going to be annoyed with Slack if it's eating all of your battery because the CPU is working really really really hard at...um...dunno? If it were mining bitcoin/monero without your knowledge or consent then at least it would be DOING something.

Re:Slack was down by allana on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:33PM (#20557118)
CPU nomming is a worse problem IMO, as your fans spin up and battery life shrinks. Other chat clients don't use notable resources, its suprising that Slack hasn't had much pushback over its heavy resource usage thus far.
Re:Slack was down by scott_s on Monday July 29, 2019 @02:27PM (#20557718)
"Virtual memory" is not a synonym for swap space: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2937597
Re:Slack was down by IggleSniggle on Monday July 29, 2019 @03:48PM (#20558634)
Thank you for the gentle correction. I will now also start using "thrashing" more accurately.
Re:Slack was down by MiroF on Thursday August 01, 2019 @09:21PM (#20589984)
Is this really such a common mistake? What is virtual about putting memory onto a hard drive
Re:Slack was down by scott_s on Tuesday August 06, 2019 @05:57PM (#20630097)
In my experience, yes, I see the misconception frequently. I think it stems from Microsoft using the name "Virtual memory size" for swap space in earlier versions of Windows.
Re:Slack was down by brynjolf on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:37AM (#20555674)
Same with MS Teams, and there isn't even a way to disable notifications per channel. So if people ping the channel and you are ini tyou will get a notification. It drives me insane but no progress since August 2018. They did add a way to send unicorns to people though. Priorities...
Re:Slack was down by firedrakerage on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:56PM (#20556717)
In MS Teams you can click the '...' next to a channel and then click 'channel notifications'. The options allow you to mute 'all new posts' and also to mute 'channel mentions'.
Re:Slack was down by vdfs on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:30AM (#20555588)
Their new version seem to use less RAM, it's still Electron but with a lot of lazy-loading's
Re:Slack was down by enlyth on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:05PM (#20556029)
I'm sitting at 341MB after all day heavy usage, let's not exaggerate here :)
Re:Slack was down by holtalanm on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:42AM (#20555746)
as mentioned in another reply -- the slack client memory hog issue was fixed in the latest update.
Re:Slack was down by woodrowbarlow on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:03PM (#20556779)
zulip is electron also.
Re:Slack was down by UncleMeat on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:42PM (#20556522)
Is it? Memory exists to be used.
Re:Slack was down by jeltz on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:51PM (#20557307)
Yeah, but I run Firefox, Slack, Skype, Discord and VirtualBox. Together they can peak at like 10 GB when stars align badly and I only have 8 GB RAM.
Re:Slack was down by echelon on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:45AM (#20555775)
Engineers grew up on chat (IRC, AIM/MSN/ICQ, Jabber/XMPP, etc.) and have opinions about what it should look and feel like. When a company raises billions for a product that feels like using dinky Fisher-Price software that you could have written better and gotten rich off instead, and moreover when their product is forced upon you by your workplace and it becomes a major distraction and headache...

Ire, jealousy, hate... There are a lot of bad feelings towards Slack.

These are not necessarily my feelings, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't dislike them just a little.

Re:Slack was down by DangerousPie on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:51AM (#20555859)
I grew up with all of these and I have no issues with Slack. It's much more convenient and useful than any of the above.
Re:Slack was down by hartator on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:36AM (#20555659)
We pay for Slack and I’ve lost some time this morning coordinating with my team. 2 weeks ago it was screen sharing that was down. It’s infuriating.

Not sure why you think OP can’t say “Slack sucks”.

Re:Slack was down by abhchand on Monday July 29, 2019 @02:33PM (#20557788)
Some reasons, playing devil's advocate:

1. While today's incident was unfortunate, Slack has been historically reliable.

2. There's a team of real people that works very hard to keep it that way. Using dismissive language just dumps all over their hard work.

3. It's easy to be dismissive but once you move away from Slack you'll realize how much an app that size gives you. IN other words the "sucks less" statement has shades of ignorance, and of course subjectivity.

4. Why be rude at all? Even if you don't buy into any of the above, is it that hard to be nice in making a point?

Re:Slack was down by hartator on Monday July 29, 2019 @03:36PM (#20558511)
Playing the devil's advocate's advocate:

> 1. While today's incident was unfortunate, Slack has been historically reliable.

Screen sharing and video have not been reliable in the past month. With several public incidents.

> 2. There's a team of real people that works very hard to keep it that way. Using dismissive language just dumps all over their hard work.

I feel very little sympathy for an engineer who make couple of hundred thousands per year. Not accounting stock options, vacation, and work environment. And Slack won't fire the culprit.

> 3. It's easy to be dismissive but once you move away from Slack you'll realize how much an app that size gives you. IN other words the "sucks less" statement has shades of ignorance, and of course subjectivity

We invest our own time building integrations. Why should be doing that for Slack and not for the competition?

> 4. Why be rude at all? Even if you don't buy into any of the above, is it that hard to be nice in making a point?

I don't think OP's "It sucks" is dismissive or rude. You can be nice and still thinking something sucks. It helps no one to lie by choosing less explicit words.

Re:Slack was down by anbop on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:17PM (#20556943)
You’re supposed to be soft on a company during an outage? That’s exactly when you’re supposed to be considering alternatives!

Similar peeve is when people say “don’t politicize this tragedy.” No, politics is how we decide to act, a tragedy is exactly when we should be the most political. The Boeing 737 crashes is when we should excoriate and eliminate the rot at Boeing and the FAA, not six years later after some respectful silence.

Re:Slack was down by dharmab on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:25AM (#20555534)
"suck less" is a specific software development philosophy https://suckless.org/philosophy/
Re:Slack was down by monsieurbanana on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:28AM (#20555572)
It's also not what op meant.
Re:Slack was down by dropmann on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:36AM (#20555664)
If the original commenter would have meant that, he probably would have recommended using https://tools.suckless.org/sic/ and not some web application which is categorized as "stuff that sucks" See: https://suckless.org/sucks/web/
Re:Slack was down by spyspy on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:32AM (#20555621)
They're a $17 billion company. They'll be just fine.
Re:Slack was down by kolbe on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:44AM (#20555767)
Their valuation is actually extremely sensitive to usage patterns right now, however. If they lose $1m of business, it's not like they're worth $1m less. That million bucks is not only used in an assumption for making that money over and over for the next couple decade, but also as an indication of growth for more adoption. I don't know the exact model that gets used, but it's likely that losing $1m in business today causes hundreds of millions in loss for their market cap.
Re:Slack was down by anaphor on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:29AM (#20555577)
I don't mean it in a disparaging way. Most software sucks to some degree so the goal is to find something that "sucks less". Pretty much everything can always be improved on.
Re:Slack was down by papln on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:52AM (#20555868)
"more pleasant to use and less buggy."

Borrowing from Lin Manuel-Miranda's Thomas Jefferson:

> These are wise words, enterprising men quote 'em > Don't act surprised, you guys, 'anaphor wrote 'em

It's a nicer way to convey the same idea, without triggering a combative emotional response in reaaders.

Re:Slack was down by forgottenpass on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:47PM (#20556578)
If saying slack sucks "trigger[s] a combative emotional response in reaaders," I don't think it's the speaker that needs to re-evaluate their choices in life.
Re:Slack was down by MiroF on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:56AM (#20555914)
Slack is a multi-billion dollar valued company, we're not kicking them while they're down
Re:Slack was down by contravariant on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:08PM (#20556840)
Except in the literal sense.
Re:Slack was down by dkarl on Monday July 29, 2019 @02:46PM (#20557934)
Lindsey Graham, a 64-year-old conservative U.S. senator, just said China's ability to influence the U.S. film industry "sucks," so I don't think the language has the swear-word power it used to.