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Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by josefresco on Monday February 11, 2019 @07:27AM (#19133900)
"I went outside to get coffee and ran into three different neighbors who wanted to chit-chat. I wanted to scream, ‘For every word that comes out of your mouth, I’m losing money!"

This is a statement from someone who either hasn't been freelancing that long, or who hasn't realized that "brain down time" is just as important as raw coding hours. I've worked "for myself" for almost 20 years and for the first 5 I too panicked when daytime billable hours were derailed by "distractions". Once you push beyond that, you realize that those times away from your machine are valuable, and actually contribute to your overall well being, and your ability to code with a clear head, and an efficient mindset.

Wasting away "on salary" is a hard mindset to break. The answer is not to replace 100% of your salary hours with your own freelance work. You'll find even 50% of your previous salaried time can get just as much done, and make just as much money (assuming you price your services and value properly)

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:47AM (#19134794)
The biggest problem for me was my (ex)spouse always pushing for billable hours. Every time I decided I wanted time off there was a constant nagging reminder and guilt of not only what it would cost to go and do what I want - for example cost of flights, accommodation, entertainment and food, but also the cost of the loss of income for that time off meaning that every time I was away from my keyboard it was costing me 10 times as much. There was always a reminder to "be responsible and not lose the income" which is a toxic mindset to be in.

These days I skip off work at every possible opportunity and to hell with anyone who can't comprehend my lack of will to bill every waking hour, partners and family included. I may not get paid as much, but there's so much more to life than work. Sure, I'm not billing when I could be and sure there's plenty enough work that I could bill 24 hours a day if I had enough energy and will power to do that, but I don't care. My mental health and my other passions need playtime or I'm going to flame out and never come back to this.

If you don't have a spouse that's supportive and encouraging of your need for downtime away from work, then you're caught in a double trap.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by mcv on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:03AM (#19134892)
I'm happy I have neither this problem nor the ones in the article. I'm aware what my time is worth, but I'm also aware I'm making enough money that I don't have to worry about it. I'm extremely careless about money; not that I'm wasting it (the opposite, rather), but as long as there's money, I'm fine. When I have too much, I shovel it away to some place where it catches interest. I've got an accountant who worries about the details.

Recently, my son, still in primary school, had to check out a potential secondary school. My wife wasn't able to take him there, so I left early. Cost me €240 in revenue. That's a lot of money, but then again, I made more than that in the rest of the day, and I don't want to deny myself the opportunity to do these things with my son.

There's more in life than money. Sure, it's important, but only as a way to an end. Money itself is not the goal, life is. Don't sacrifice your life or happiness for mere money.

(Of course it's easy to say that when you can afford to. Not everybody can.)

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:55AM (#19135314)
I'm normally rather careless with money too... I earn far more than I need to live quite comfortably on a normal basis, there's rarely a month where I spend anywhere close to what comes in. But when I do want something, I don't think twice about buying it.

Recently I've been shoveling it into a long term project that will hopefully pay dividends in the longer term, but the jury's presently out on whether that will actually come to fruition. Time will tell.

I agree, not everyone can afford to live as frivolous a lifestyle. I've been very fortunate to have had the choices and opportunities I have to be able to make headway. I try never to take that for granted, because it doesn't take too many wrong moves and you're the one trying to scrape your way to get above the poverty line again.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by akulbe on Monday February 11, 2019 @06:47PM (#19139688)
Out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do?
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @11:50AM (#19145119)
I'm pretty much a jack of all trades.

My professional expertise and where I've spent the majority of my career is in software engineering, systems architecture, devops and test automation. In what little spare time I have I'm co-founder and instructor for an educational organic farm which means I'm often playing carpenter, mechanic and vet as well as being a full time Dad.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by akulbe on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @04:54PM (#19147964)
Would love to talk with you more. Do you blog somewhere? I have an email in my profile.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @06:04PM (#19148605)
I haven't blogged in 100 years. My email is on my profile too, feel free to hit me up.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by akulbe on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @06:10PM (#19148659)
If it is, it's not visible. This is what I see: https://www.dropbox.com/s/go1ybpig05afqd6/no_email_listed.pn...
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by scirocco on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:10PM (#19138866)
Reminds me of Avicii, who wanted to stop touring but his peers reminded him how much we would lose, and how irresponsible he was to turn down ”unique opportunities”. So much for his mental health
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by clojurestan on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:04AM (#19134901)
Sounds like a shitty spouse
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:22AM (#19135040)
It's easy to make a judgment on one scenario, but being unable to get out of that mindset doesn't make her a shitty spouse, it's a fear that's been brainwashed into her by her upbringing. She is more than her fears.

Thankfully though, I'm no longer in this position. I was rather more pointing out a toxic mindset that you need to overcome not just in yourself but potentially in your spouse and the rest of your families.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by mistersquid on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:03PM (#19135939)
> being unable to get out of that mindset doesn't make her a shitty spouse

This is an incredibly helpful reminder that people should not be reduced to their flaws and relationships are not the mere sum of their drawbacks.

Because people are risk-averse, it's easy to focus on what's bad and take for granted what's good. So when a relationship becomes challenging, people can reflexively give up (or throw away) rather than work with and get through.

Relationships are worth maintaining and building, even when they become difficult. In some cases, relationships are worth maintaining especially when they become difficult because the relationship becomes stronger and promotes greater well-being to the degree that it has survived hardship.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:47PM (#19136373)
Indeed they are... though in this particular case there were a bunch of other factors that caused this particular relationship to fail, but even with those considered, they don't make her a shitty person, she is more than the sum of her parts. Just because the relationship was unworkable, doesn't make her a bad person or even a bad spouse, they just make us bad partners to one another.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by davidscolgan on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:01PM (#19137237)
I have the highest respect for people like you who can make comments like these. It takes a lot of maturity and mental creativity to see things from others' perspectives, and if everyone had your mindset the world would be a better place. If you are ever in Chicago I'd love to buy you a coffee/beer and hear your story.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:09PM (#19137790)
Thanks, if I'm ever in Chicago, I may take you up on that :)
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by zerkten on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:31AM (#19135638)
FWIW I don't think this has to be tied to a spouse or partner. I've pushed myself close to that place for other reasons.

I had a very comfortable childhood and watched moderately successful parents in a place which has little entrepreneurship fall apart over time. I was protected by good skills and work performance, but in combination with the financial crisis this pushed me to a toxic place as I looked to protect me and my family.

First, my father got so ill that my mom and brother had to be his caregiver. For a while the family business continued to some success, but my brother was never invested in it. I realize now that I worked my ass off to escape and do my own thing and my brother didn't have direction. Over time with the failed economy and then my Dad's death they ended up closing down the business. My brother has drifted and my mom gets by, but it's not the life they expected.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nightski on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:05AM (#19135423)
Meh, the guy admitted he was careless with money. It's possible his spouse is not as comfortable with living paycheck to paycheck as long as things are fine (because there could be times where it's not fine). We don't know anything about their financial situation, what kind of emergency fund he has built up, or if there is any sort of planning going on for retirement.

Communicating frequently and financially planning together is a key part of a relationship. If this is lacking that does not make the spouse shitty.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:15AM (#19135516)
Exactly
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by malvosenior on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:56AM (#19135332)
Whether you're freelancing or doing a startup, it's critical to have your spouse's support. Entrepreneurship is extremely difficult and if you're in a serious relationship, the other partner has to be ok with the ups and downs. In my experience, few are. I've seen numerous early stage startups fail when the spouse of one of the co-founders pulls the plug.

The difficulty in achieving this over a long period of time is one of the things that makes the founder's over sized equity stake make a lot more sense. You're literally putting your relationships on the line to make your company work.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:01AM (#19135383)
They not only have to be onboard and be supportive, but they need to understand what it takes, the risks that are going to come up, the fine line that needs to be walked to balance your success, your mental health and your relationship. They need to really understand that and be capable of rolling with it.

Entrepreneurship takes a heavy toll on relationships, and I think honestly, her lack of ability to cope with the stress had a heavy influence on my ability to cope with the stress. If it had been just me with my own thoughts, my resolve and resilience would've been far stronger. Having to balance the needs of your partner makes tough and potentially risky choices ten times harder.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by a-saleh on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:43AM (#19135188)
If I were in that position, and wouldn't want to break off the relationship, I would probably try to change billable-hours to billable days (or even weeks?) I would then try to keep strict 8-hour a day work-schedule (ok, maybe even just 6 to be honest :-)

Like, I am programming in professional fashion for around 10 years, and there are hours, where I make more progress than previous days. I don't want to be fighting for billable hours.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:14AM (#19135507)
I've been programming since I was 8 years old. Professionally for the last 25 years. I've seen entire classes and subsets of programming paradigms dominate the industry and fade to irrelevance. There's enough to keep up with, without stressing about billing. I try to carry billable days or even work on retainer such that a minimum income is guaranteed and anything over and above is billed at a daily rate.

From everything others have said, the jump from "programmer" to "consultant" is the hardest leap and one I've had considerable difficulty hurdling. My existing clients are often actively working against me to make this leap because they look at me as someone who can solve their problems in minutes and want them fixed now. It's on me to help change their mindset to one of allowing me to teach them to solve these problems for themselves.

My greatest value is in teaching them to be self sufficient. It's helping them to become more than the sum of their parts so that when they call me, they're calling me to show them what they're doing wrong and show them how to fix it, I'm not fixing it for them.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by anongraddebt on Monday February 11, 2019 @07:00PM (#19139756)
Is there a way to tackle the interpersonal problem of perception (regarding time invested in work) here by presenting a nice spreadsheet showing time worked and linking it to income appearing in the bank account? I'm not sure whether this would solve the problem rather than just create new ones, but if I was a freelancer and my significant other was suffering from misperception my first instinct would be showing them the data.

Of course, if the underlying issue is that they want you to increase your income target, then that requires a different solution.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by gdfasfklshg4 on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:09AM (#19134946)
It sounds like you have serious issues with your relationship.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:18AM (#19135007)
Had, don't worry, that's no longer a problem. Past tense.
[dead]
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:19PM (#19137879)
It may be easy to assume that from one statement, but there's far more to relationships than one slice of one facet of our dynamic. When you're in a relationship, you work together for the common good of your relationship. It might be my work, but it was our family, and a household that she had every bit as much right to feel safe and secure about as I had to my needs.

That's not naivete, that's considering that I'm part of something greater than myself.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by rchaud on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:21PM (#19138472)
Not who you're replying to, but I wanted to say I respect you for offering thoughtful, measured responses to what seem to be throwaway comments from internet alphas who couldn't resist projecting their own biases and stereotypes into their replies, simply because you happened to mention your ex-spouse was a woman.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by balabaster on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:30PM (#19138531)
Thanks. I don't tend to rise to such personalities, but I equally won't let their comments off the hook and allow toxic behavior to propagate unchallenged.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by rchaud on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:53PM (#19139285)
This is the only way to maintain a solid level of discourse on online forums in this day and age. Hopefully more commenters will take the approach you have.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by ska on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:57PM (#19139326)
I appreciate the optimism inherent in your reply.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by wehere1111 on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:38PM (#19139141)
lol 'cucked' what an epic own bro you really out logiced that feminist!
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by stevage on Monday February 11, 2019 @07:56AM (#19134056)
50%? Even less in my case. 3 hours a day is plenty to get paid as much as I was before on a salary.

Honestly I find the time-related issue as a freelancer is having too much of it, and putting it to good use rather than just lounging around.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by ams6110 on Monday February 11, 2019 @08:49AM (#19134417)
Do you include your self-employment tax, health insurance, and saving for retirement in those three hours as well? Or is that just making up what was in your take-home pay?
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by HenryBemis on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:12AM (#19134970)
If one lives a modest life (no Ferraris/Great-Gatsby-parties), on a sensible financial management, one can have north of £/€/$1m on the side, in one decade(speaking for UK/EU/USA)(for contracts on IT/IT Sec/GRC/PM.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nickdandakis on Monday February 11, 2019 @10:38AM (#19135153)
I think the vast majority of people would find it incredibly difficult to save ~7.5k per month for 10 years (assuming an annually compound savings interest of 2.2%), to hit 1M.

That type of savings goes beyond "no Ferraris/Great-Gatsby-parties".

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by scottlocklin on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:01AM (#19135390)
Depends. If you have a SEP-IRA, half of that is pre-tax. If you've optimized your location away from California/New York on a normal tech billing regime (2x salary, maybe 3/4 the billable hours), you're almost there on tax savings alone; let alone housing expenses.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by bonestamp2 on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:55AM (#19135863)
I didn't realize just how big a difference that pre-tax savings makes until recently. A couple weeks ago I thought there was an error when I increased my pre-tax savings and I noticed my take home pay only went down 66% of what I increased my savings by. I logged in and realized that the full amount I increased by was coming off, but I was saving 33% in taxes so my take home only went down 66% of what I expected.

For example, let's say I increased my bi-weekly savings by $150. Because it was pre-tax, with the tax savings I was still saving $150 but my take home only went down $100.

By the time I want that money, I shouldn't have a mortgage payment so I'll need far less money than I'm making now and my income tax should be much lower, not to mention the additional gains on a higher principle.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by icedchai on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:18AM (#19135537)
10 may be a stretch for many. 15 to 20 years should be achievable by many tech workers.

Once you hit your number, work gets pretty depressing. You realize you're making more from passive investing, just doing nothing.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by C1sc0cat on Monday February 11, 2019 @01:08PM (#19136617)
In the UK IT contractors get paid a lot more if your frugal and have the right skills I could see saving £6k a month not being hard.

I can do 2.5k a month as a not massively well paid employee

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by newroman on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:03AM (#19135403)
you done goofed if you're saving at 2.2%, he means investing in the S&P500 or the likes
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nightski on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:17AM (#19135525)
While it's true the market has given guaranteed returns well north of 2.2% average for 30 years or more (the single worst 30 year period would of been higher than 2.2% average). However, when you cut that down to a decade it changes the picture significantly. There are decades where you could of actually seen a loss.

So without giving financial advice, I'd say it's more complicated than throwing it in an index fund if your time-frame is a decade.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by icedchai on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:25AM (#19135594)
Don't overthink this stuff. Most of the decades you wouldn't see a loss, so you're better off investing a good chunk. Keep 10 to 20% of your holdings in cash getting 2% interest if it helps you sleep at night.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nightski on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:50AM (#19135816)
I wasn't trying to overthink. But the market is volatile at the moment and the next decade is rather uncertain. Thinking you can just throw your money in and get 7% over the next decade and get to $1M may not be the best strategy.

We aren't talking about losing sleep over volatility here. We are talking about a situation where someone specifically wants to hit $1M in a decade.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by icedchai on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:58AM (#19135898)
The past decade was also quite volatile. So was the previous. Volatility is normal and timing the market doesn't work, so DCA in and forget about it.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nightski on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:17PM (#19136096)
I'm not suggesting one time the market. We've been in a huge bull run in the last decade volatile or not. But if you are shooting for $1M in a decade you might want to think about asset allocation more carefully than 100% in the market. That's all I am suggesting. I agree for the portion you are allocating to stocks, DCA in and don't try to time the market.

For example, I put several thousand in a Vanguard TR Fund in January of last year. It's still down 2% overall. Now on a 30 year horizon, no big deal. But for a decade that will significantly impact the compounding returns. Stocks are very volatile and may not be real desirable for a 10 year time frame.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by cerberusss on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @01:18AM (#19141470)
I'm all for buy-and-hold, but you do realize that there's a group of people for which this is very hard? Psychologically, they'll have trouble staying the course when seas are rough.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by hopler on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:51PM (#19136427)
It's figurative language. "1Million" in "currency unspecified" for 10 years isn't the exact price or time cost of a good life.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by brudgers on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:27PM (#19136194)
With ongoing contribution plans like retirement accounts, the thirty year average returns are relevant to a sixty year contribution cycle: Assuming no back loading (later contributions larger than early contributions). With a back loaded cycle, dollar by dollar thirty year averages require a greater than sixty year investment cycle.

Even a ten year average returns is typically going to require more -- a cycle longer than twenty years. Financial services are sold: caveat emptor.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nickdandakis on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:47PM (#19136368)
You right.

Let's say a 7% annual compound interest over 10 years (which I think, is debatable). That puts you at $5,800/mo. I think my argument still stands?

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by astura on Monday February 11, 2019 @06:09PM (#19139424)
Unless you started saving in the year 2000, then you would have had a negative return 10 years later.

https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by thisisweirdok on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:20AM (#19135554)
If you don't need to pay for health insurance out of pocket or have a family, sure. This is possible.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by otikik on Monday February 11, 2019 @01:34PM (#19136928)
I remember a similar feeling. Then I had a child.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by jpatokal on Monday February 11, 2019 @07:33AM (#19133928)
Yes, that's pretty much what the friendly article says:

> “If we’re already in the time-is-money mindset, we can reframe our leisure time as something that enables us to be more productive in the future,” says Whillan. “When we’re conditioned to think of all our time as ‘on the clock,’ leisure time feels abstract and unsatisfying. But if we tell ourselves that leisure time is another means to achieve that goal or financial outcome, that can make us more likely to take the breaks that we need, enjoy them fully, and be happier in general.”

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by OJFord on Monday February 11, 2019 @08:05AM (#19134111)
That's interesting, because I think (I don't freelance) I'd look at it the other way: work funds my leisure, so how much must I work to fund the leisure?
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by gumaflux on Monday February 11, 2019 @08:11AM (#19134164)
Good point. But leisure is not a fixed box (for me at least).

I have been freelancing for 20+ years.

Fully agreed with OC, my clients are not paying for me to sit by the desk they're paying for solutions to problems. The more complex the problem, usually the less tapping on keyboard.

I know, some gigs are in fact just showing your face on Skype or in presence, I have come to avoid these regardless of leisure impact.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by hopler on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:52PM (#19136446)
Sleep isn't fun enough to be worth 8hr every day. But we try to do it anyway because it makes non-sleep hours better. That's the sort of thing OP is talking anout.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by OJFord on Monday February 11, 2019 @06:49PM (#19139697)
No but you're justifying the non-work time again - I'm saying it's the _work_ time that needs to be justified (by what it allows me to do that costs actual money - okay, buy a bed, sure) _not_ vice versa.

I'd like to think that, were I not salaried, I'd work only as much as i needed in order to do whatever it was that I wanted to do with the rest of my time - not relax in a way that allowed me to work as much as possible.

Of course, in reality it's a slightly harder optimisation problem than presented, since time is a factor too, and maybe you can't afford to do what you want to do leisurely for 4 days a week, working 3, but it can be done at 3.5 each way.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by braindouche on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:15PM (#19138896)
Give it ten years, you'll change your tune.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by josefresco on Monday February 11, 2019 @08:11AM (#19134165)
My comment was re: the author's statement who was/is clearly struggling with the concept of freelance/not working on salary. The quote above is from Psychologist Ashley Whillan, and I couldn't agree more.

FYI my parent comment got 19 upvotes in a matter of just a few minutes - it clearly resonates with a lot of folks here.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by sam0x17 on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:59PM (#19138285)
The real answer is to bill based on milestones instead of billing based on hours. Hourly billing in my experience is just a slippery slope to being way too conscious about time and creates a conflict of interest in that it is in your interest to take longer, but that isn't in the interest of your client. Billing off of milestones aligns interests because it is in both of your interests to complete milestones quickly. The only thing you have to watch out for is scope creep which can be easily addressed with contract clauses that address this.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by rglover on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:45AM (#19134785)
Great response. I chuckled at the first 5 panicking as that's dead on. The reality, as counterintuitive as it seems, is that when you're not going full bore your work is better (read: qualitative not quantitative focus). In turn, you can charge more and people trust your ability to produce a result more. The rest takes care of itself.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by Hoasi on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @05:32AM (#19142431)
> "I went outside to get coffee and ran into three different neighbors who wanted to chit-chat. I wanted to scream, ‘For every word that comes out of your mouth, I’m losing money!"

That was the point of the whole article... Wrong way to look at the problem. A freelancer who get paid by project, not hourly, will never encounter this kind of problem. Hourly assignments are like being an employee but without any of the benefits.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by maire on Monday February 11, 2019 @11:20AM (#19135556)
I had the opposite experience from the author of the article. It must have been because I valued my family time over my working time.

When my son was in high school I went from full time employee to part time contractor. It was great. Since there was a clear contract I didn't have to worry about office politics or my off-work time. I focused on working hard while working and I focused on my family when not working. I took every summer off-work.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by C1sc0cat on Monday February 11, 2019 @01:05PM (#19136581)
Based on UK experience a contractor (in tech) would aim to make at least 2-3x your gross as an employee and pay less tax.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by stronglikedan on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:33PM (#19137496)
> I wanted to scream

Why not just say something along the lines of, "Sorry, I work from home and I'm on the clock but just popping out for a cup of coffee - chat later.", with a smile? It's much better for your mental constitution than holding in a scream.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by buboard on Monday February 11, 2019 @08:09AM (#19134146)
Yep i would guess most freelancers would welcome and even seek some outside interaction, given that it's an isolating experience.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by rb808 on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:32AM (#19134684)
The problem though is how do you bill clients? If you're "working" and surfing HN you could possibly bill that, but walking around talking to neighbours doesn't cut it.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by chrisweekly on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:42AM (#19134759)
Project-based billing solves this neatly. It also ensures alignment of incentives (ie, working faster / more efficiently yields higher effective rate, vs working faster -> get paid less), and is helpful in emphasizing value.

For time and materials projects, avoid hourly if possible; that leads to micromanagement and commodification of your skills. I recommend billing by sprints or by the week. Try to limit granularity to a day rate (w/ minimum increments of 1/2 day).

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by sacado2 on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @06:52AM (#19142757)
It's better from the client POV too. As a client, I have work that must be done, I want to know how much it will cost, I don't care whether it takes you 3 hours or 10 hours, and I especially don't want to hear "whoops... I miscalculated, I will need more time, gimme more money".
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by zilian on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:34AM (#19134698)
So many consulting companies would bill those hours anyway
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by TrickyRick on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:38AM (#19134735)
Bill by FTE day/week/month instead. Much better for your nerves and easier to invoice.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by gdy on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:36PM (#19137526)
What's the difference? Billing for any of these seem equally dishonest.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by hopler on Monday February 11, 2019 @12:54PM (#19136460)
What is the argument that goofing on HN is more justifiable to a client than walking and talking?
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by neuralzen on Monday February 11, 2019 @01:33PM (#19136912)
I believe this is billed as "Executive Creative Time" in modern nomenclature.
Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by nicky0 on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @02:38AM (#19141752)
Charge for the project. "You logo will cost $5,000"

Hourly billing is for chumps.

Re:The Psychological Trap of Freelancing by jammygit on Monday February 11, 2019 @09:48PM (#19140577)
"I've worked "for myself" for almost 20 years"

What were the early years like? How did you get clients, and how long was it until you started making decent money?