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Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by bjoko on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:40AM (#18844432)
For Tim Cook it would be a good idea to take a closer look at this video...
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by ksec on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:29AM (#18844642)
While Tim Cook is no Marketing or Sales Person, he is definitely a number person. All the % growth, YoY, revenue etc.

One of the reason why Steve never initiated Stock buy back and were sitting on big pile of cash were simple, he could bet on products that might or might not make money. ( He was never really sure ) They will have enough resources to weather the storm. He knew technology moves so fast that one single misstep will means 2 - 3 years behind.

As bad as Apple might seems today ( they aren't bad... we just thought it could be better ), it is still far better than it was in the 90s.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by threeseed on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:37AM (#18844682)
In the 90s Apple was on the verge of bankruptcy, was dependent solely on the Mac, contracting rather than growing and had no operating system strategy.

Today, Apple earns 70b/year profit, is growing at 10% per year and is incredibly diversified. They could survive on any one of their businesses and in recent years grew two from nothing i.e. Services and Wearables into 1B+ businesses. And they still have their 1B/year content play starting in 2019 and they have AR glasses rumored for 2020.

And you think Apple is doing bad as a company ?

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by ksec on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:54AM (#18844741)
>( they aren't bad... we just thought it could be better )

And those points are precisely, numbers. In terms of Products, Three years after the introduction of MacBook Pro Touch Bar, I still think the previous gen MacBook Pro is much better. Four Years after introduction of Homekit, Nearly 7 years since they kicked out Scott forstall because of Apple Maps, and it is still pieces of crap outside US, UK and China. How Many years after App Stores? Think MacBook Air was long in the work? It was because of huge amount of criticism from MBP they decided to make a Retina MacBook Air just to shut us up. ( For the time being )

It is not that their numbers aren't doing good, but their product and services quality are declining. Most of their Product Line seems like a mess. And we are paying a premium for it, we are not iSheep, but that value proposition is declining everyday.

Oh, Did I mention All MacBook Pro TouchBar had a design flaw with Thunderbolt that increase the MacBook failure rate? Yes these things happen under Steve as well, but once these were known a new iteration of design would have been make a year later, instead we are sitting on the same shit for years.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by wolco on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:34AM (#18844919)
But you still bought one and my guess will continue to buy them retelling stories of glory when the mac was best.

You are still part of there marketing machine.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by dingby on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:56AM (#18845579)
What a completely thoughtless reply. No. MacBooks still offer an excellent value in part because MacOS is less of a tire fire than Windows 10 and the hardware is still near the top. They are premium product that continues to have outsized market share in the development and education segments. The iPhone ecosystem continues to offer distinct advantages over Android in terms of privacy, support and quality. And these facts are evidenced by the market. None of this will change overnight, but it can change and furthermore the thesis here is it will change if Apple doesn’t get its act together.
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by wolco on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @04:14AM (#18854326)
If you are invested to the point where you believe MacOS is less of a tire sale than any other operating systems the fact that you dislike the current product offerings compared to the past shouldn't matter to Apple. You will continue to buy because you have no other choice. Apple is better off taking profit from your customer segment and using the money for future investment.
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by Jare on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:03AM (#18844785)
For a company that size, "incredibly diversified" is a huge overstatement I think. They have devices (phones, tablets, computers, watches), 3rd party content store and... they all rely on each other (ecosystem effect), which makes them arguably even less diversified. Remove phones and (I believe) the whole company would just crash. How their plans for for new lines of business in 2019 and 2020 will be crucial.

Compare that to for example how Microsoft have split their dependence on Windows, and now have xbox, azure, office as truly diverse business lines. Or Amazon and their AWS division (their content still relies too much on Prime subscriptions coming from the store).

"Doing bad" is not a good description, but in terms of trajectory, they are far from a safe strategic bet right now.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by ido on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:54AM (#18844743)
It's the usual market disease of "growth above all" - apple's growth is slowing, ergo they're in trouble. Doesn't matter that the current revenues/profits are astronomical, only thing that matters is that it keeps getting more, more, more!
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by blackoil on Monday January 07, 2019 @10:40AM (#18845991)
Lots of company don't have that expectations, management just have to be clear about it and happy with a PE of 7-10. You can't be a trillion dollar company and don't have growth.
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by bagsvaerd70 on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:16AM (#18844585)
I'm not a big Apple fan. I've bought some of their laptops after the transition to Intel, but slowly switched away when macOS became less of a priority.

That said, I think Apple is sitting on top of another blockbuster, similar to the iPhone in terms of impact, if they know how to play it well. I'm referring to the Apple Watch equipped with a non-invasive glucose sensor.

I realize that they have a bit of a regulatory battle to fight before releasing it. But the potential is immense. It will change how people eat, not just diabetics. It's pretty well established science now that if we reduce the area under the glucose curve (read minimize glucose spikes), we will age more slowly and we will reduce metabolic disease enormously.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by mikece on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:07AM (#18844804)
> I've bought some of their laptops after the transition to Intel, but slowly switched away when macOS became less of a priority

I recall at one of his last keynotes Jobs pointed out that compared to what the iPhone and iPad were bringing in the Mac/macOS division was small by comparison but compared to computer companies like HP or Dell that Apple was shipping more units of higher quality products to fiercely loyal users/fans (this observation preceded announcements of new/upgraded computers iirc). I realize Apple has an obsession with Ferrari-like cool, slick looks to their laptops but I think a blue-collar, enterprise-aimed laptop that says "I'm a serious developer/business person, I will lug an 8 pound laptop if it gives me lots of RAM, lots of processing power, and an all day batter, even if it's not sexy but gets the job done more reliably than anything else in existence" would be a wildly popular product. In short: something like a Lenovo P series (with 8 cores, up to 128GB RAM and a full, QUALITY keyboard without the BS touchbar) but running macOS. Hell, steal the advertising memes that Ford and Chevy use for selling their trucks: an industrial-grade laptop workstation for the knowledge workers who make the knowledge economy work.

I would buy two right away.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by saurik on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:25AM (#18844618)
> I'm referring to the Apple Watch equipped with a non-invasive glucose sensor.

As someone who has dated someone that is diabetic and now works with someone who is diabetic--someone who likes to sit at the cutting edge of technology and is even using hacked equipment to improve his experience--I don't think we have that technology yet.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by jf- on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:11AM (#18844823)
We don’t, the latest commercial technology consists of disposable sensors that require a probe to penetrate the skin. Whoever brings something non-invasive (and reusable) to market will be raking it in whether they’re apple or not.
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by bagsvaerd70 on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:16AM (#18844851)
PKVitality has a sensor array that is pretty much non-invasive: https://www.pkvitality.com/ktrack-glucose/

There's also an alternative using radiofrequency: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4641327/

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by fabricexpert on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:41AM (#18844959)
> PKVitality

That product doesn't exist yet, the video on the home page is 18 months old so it's probably not feasible / accurate.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by MperorM on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:34AM (#18844670)
Could you provide a source on the last claim? I am generally quite skeptic whenever I hear anything in food science as being represented as well-established.

Also, love your username, I grew up there!

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by bagsvaerd70 on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:11AM (#18844822)
Sure. This recent Nature Reviews Genetics paper should describe the basic associations between DNA methylation and glucose levels, as well as point you towards more specific literature:

http://173.239.45.5/~joshmitt/data-beta/Horvath-NatureRev201...

Bagsvaerd is great. I was living in the Lyngby-Naerum-Birkeroed-Farum area for many years, working in formal methods. I hope to be back soon! Are you still in the area?

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by MperorM on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:40AM (#18845428)
Thanks, I'll make sure to read that. Generally I am greatly frustrated about how little I know about 'physical things'. Like all my effort has always been poured into philosophy, mathematics, economics, and computer science, never leaving any time to appreciate physics, chemistry and engineering. Just the title of that paper has three words I don't know what mean!

I moved to Copenhagen, but I guess that qualifies as the area :P

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by bagsvaerd70 on Monday January 07, 2019 @02:18PM (#18848912)
It definitely does, a very nice area overall!
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by RHSeeger on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:21AM (#18844869)
> We hate to ground your technological hopes, but Valencell, which licenses sensor technology to Samsung, Sony and the rest, says that noninvasive glucose tracking is impossible.

Not that I necessarily believe the quote, but I've seen no sign yet that it's likely to happen any time soon.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by _s on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:25AM (#18844883)
I think it's quite the opposite - I think Apple have always had issues with every product launch, but the number of people now using them, and the bar / expectations are so much higher - they can't catch a break, rightly so - they charge a premium, and for 10% of the cost you pay Apple you can get a competitors product that's 90% there.

Tim Cook & Apple's board have an absolutely stellar team of VP's, from customer service to engineering, but I think they've given themselves too much freedom in terms of "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks". They're so comfortable with their brand, cash piles and whatnot, that they can release so many variants of so many products and not even worry about the wasted man-hours and resources spent on it.

I get the feeling there hasn't been anyone there taking a step back and going "Y'kno, we can totally do this, but we shouldn't".

Butterfly keyboard? I love how slim their laptops are now, but did they really have to go and re-engineer how a keyboard works? Even in its 3rd iteration, I have a space bar on an almost new Macbook Pro that just won't stop sticking.

iPhone XR? We've priced out the XS for most folks, but let's make a cheaper one too! Oh wait, we have the 8!

Watch Hermes? Or ceramic? Around the $3k mark you're in Rolex, Omega territory; and those watches will be worth more in a few years than anything Apple release.

Etc etc.

I don't know what motivates a lot of folks to buy Apple, but for me it boils down to:

- Stellar customer support

- Reliability & durability

I don't particularly care too much about having the latest / greatest hardware inside my products; but so far Apple are still lightyears ahead of the competition on those two fronts.

I can be pretty much anywhere in the world that has an apple store, walk in and get my keyboard issue sorted, and my many other iDevices have easily lasted a few years and are still going strong.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by threeseed on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:27AM (#18844628)
What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me. Tim Cook isn’t from a Sales/Marketing background whilst many of the VPs at Apple are from Product backgrounds. Also the company is one of the most product centric companies around.

Also under Tim Cook’s reign Apple has dominated the wearables market with a product that everybody dismissed in the beginning.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by lalo2302 on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:56AM (#18844756)
The Apple Watch was the last product Steve Jobs envisioned and planned. You can't put that on Tim Cook.

And right now they are being more number centric rather than innovation centric as in the past years.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by threeseed on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:02AM (#18844782)
No evidence Steve Jobs was involved in the planning/design of the Apple Watch. In fact during the Wired interview with Ive:

“Ive began dreaming about an Apple watch just after CEO Steve Jobs’ death in October 2011. He soon brought the idea to Dye and a small group of others in the design studio.”

And plenty of innovations for me: A12X/T2/W1 SOCs, FaceID, Apple Watch ECG, HomePod spatial detection, Beats1 Radio, Handoff/Continuity, Apple Pay.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by pjmlp on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:58AM (#18844492)
Or the days of Apple without Steve Jobs for that matter.

I remember pretty clearly how we all thought Apple would be doomed while they were still struggling to bring Copland out.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by microtherion on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:16AM (#18844848)
Ironically these were times when a TON of new products came out. There probably never were more simultaneous Mac models in the market, and there was OpenDoc, CyberDog, Quickdraw GX, QuickDraw 3D, QuickTime VR, HotSauce, Game Sprockets.

The first few years of Steve 2.0 were largely about REDUCING the number of products, and improving the MARKETING. As for the products:

* There was the iMac, which was notable for having FEWER features. Sure there was USB, but everybody was complaining about their ADB and serial peripherals no longer working without dongles, and about the omission of a floppy drive (sound familiar?).

* There was the iBook, which certainly had an iconic look (especially the handle), but not one that had a lasting impact.

* The PowerBooks were nice designs.

* The Power Mac G3/G4 towers with the opening latch and handles were a really good product with a lasting form factor, in my opinion.

* The Power Mac G4 cube was a commercial disaster, doomed, among other things, by bad pricing positioning in a weakening economy (sound familiar?).

* And don't get me started about the hockey puck mouse — the kind of product design that tends to get forgotten in Steve Jobs nostalgia threads.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by gdubs on Monday January 07, 2019 @10:36AM (#18845947)
People give Tim Cook a hard time, but he’s objectively a brilliant executive. What people have been seeking since Jobs died is a spiritual leader, and, well, those don’t come around as often.

I will say though, the current jumble of iPhone models reminds me a lot of all the various power macs available when Jobs returned to Apple, got rid of them all, and established the 4-quadrant product line of personal/professional, desktop/portable.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by mikece on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:59AM (#18844768)
Or Cook could just listen to the legions of formerly loyal iPhone customers who refuse to buy phones that don't have a 3.5mm plug or require one to use Face ID. Or the Mac users who are eternally pissed off that products are too expensive and under-equipped (Mac mini) or "intentionally broken" (Touch Bar on MacBook Pro) or forgotten (is the Mac Pro ever going to get a hardware update -- or the iPod Touch for that matter?). Innovation is good but don't ditch products that work (iPhone SE, iPod nano) in the name of "innovations" that are proven flops.

Formerly loyal customers are giving Apple TONS of great product ideas but they aren't listening.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by sbuk on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:30AM (#18844899)
I remeber the same arguments for serial ports, ethernet ports, ADB ports and optical drives. The headphone jack is gone and not coming back to the iPhone.
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by mikece on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:28AM (#18845320)
> The headphone jack is gone and not coming back to the iPhone.

Just like many former buyers of iPhone will not be coming back. Apple can "innovate" all they want, but customers aren't going to blindly buy it.

Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by Austin_Conlon on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:15AM (#18844841)
You can turn Face ID off, and Apple publicly stated the Mac Pro is coming in 2019.
Re:Steve Jobs on why Xerox failed by jvzr on Monday January 07, 2019 @10:07AM (#18845687)
I don't think you could make legions out of iPhone users not wanting Face ID.

I can't say the same for 3.5mm (although I think both groups are misguided).