Some other tidbits of information:
- only thing that seemed to work even after TMS and other treatments.
- New pathways (SF and San Mateo locations) is really good.
- more and more treatment places opening up in different cities etc.
- uber assist or drive the patient home (full lucidity afterwards but you don’t want to drive).
- long-term benefits aren’t apparent after the first two treatments. After the third it seemed to last for 2-3 days. After the fourth longer.
- it really seems like a ‘break out of depression’ breakthrough treatment. Though no cure all (talk therapy or a good support system is important too).
- ketamine is used for many purposes (anesthesia, etc.). When given for depression it’s given in much low dosages (presumably without harmful liver or kidney side effects).
- usually the patient listens to music with headphones while the infusion is in progress.
- a nurse monitors BP and heart rate etc., but so far there have been no compications other than a nurse who was bad at putting in an IV (once).
- feel very thankful for it.
- I could see it going mainstream in the near future.
A better "close to k-hole" dose would be 100mg. At least based on our experiences 100mg would get some people in the hole, while it took some others 50mg - 100mg more.
And yeah I’m not sure about the dosage. I know it’s much less than ketamine for pain management or for anesthesia. I’ll try to ask next time.
Having no knowledge on the matter, what's the price comparison to just buying ketamine illegally and taking it without a doctor's help?
Depression is like (or possibly is) a form of chronic pain. People suffering from it severely might be willing to do anything for relief. Here's good information that a currently-illegal drug can help but if you want to do it legally you might need to take on a third job just to pay the costs.
It reminds me a bit of the South Park episode[0] where 'concentrated dose of about $180,000 shot directly into the bloodstream' is discovered as the cure to AIDS. Volunteers inform poverty-stricken Africa that all those suffering from AIDS have to do is inject themselves with piles of cash.
I think the most of that $375 goes towards staffing costs, rather than the drug itself. Ketamine though legitimate channels costs about $5-$10 per gram from what I've heard.
Typically they use 0.5mg/kg. I think you may be confusing milligrams (mg) with grams (g).
It's way cheaper on the black market. The actual cost of manufacture isn't very high, and I don't think it falls under any patents needing licensing. Probably you're mostly paying for the labor.
I can imagine there being a great short term benefit to ketamine, as people who are severely depressed can't exercise due to the depression. Has there been any mention switching from ketamine to daily exercise, or doing both?
More, I don't know what ketamine does in the long term to the brain beyond stimulating the parts of the brain that get strengthened during exercise. Maybe it's doing something else and that was the motive for the curiosity. What exactly is ketamine doing in the long run to the brain?
I've posted this before. There's a newer study that has better results.
http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre...
---begin
Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies. Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies. The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. Attendance rates for exercise treatments ranged from 50% to 100%. The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive.
---end
http://www.cochrane.org/CD011612/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other...
If the answer is zero (which I think it is) do those who have it a favor and shut up. Depression is hard enough without "you just have to exercise, huahua" comments.
I read the OPs intention as "use K to get the person back from the bottom of depression and then leverage that boost in mood to start a habit of excersize"
That seems reasonable and a good approach. You want to reinvest the motivation and better mood into relationships and behaviors that will continue to compound feeling good.
I'd also recommend Gratitude as a practice and ultimately some sort of somatic work where you are encouraged to go deeply into any uncomfortable feelings with your full body.
I get where you're coming from with this response - if you haven't been there, there is just no way you can understand how desperately bleak things can become.
But if someone is ignorant about mental health, why not try to educate that tell them to "shut up"?
We need to talk about these things, not humiliate and shut down anyone who doesn't understand.
Nothing is more irksome than the trend in public discussions to tell others to "shut up" if they haven't specifically experienced something.
This is a public forum. We're discussing a publicly posted article. The OP brought to the table a valid point. Let them talk.
Not for medical which is maybe what you are referring to. But long term (recreational) ketamine use (abuse) is well known. Perhaps down to the method of injection (nasal) or the impurities in illicit ketamine, but there is a lot of information on bladder problems, stomach cramps along with heavy addiction
The only downside is the cost (it’s not covered by insurance) and the potential that there are long term side effects that have yet to be discovered. We pay $375 for a 40-minute infusion. The recommended initial course is six infusions over two weeks. After that a booster or two is usually needed very two to six weeks. (It’s been about every three weeks for my girlfriend.)