Anecdote alert, but I get about 10 hours of exercise a week and at best it's stopping things getting worse.

I know exercise is good for depression, but this is an extremely patronising response to someone else's description of their medical treatment.

How is it patronising? GP is asking two questions. Maybe there's some subtle subtext that I'm missing, but even then it seems better to assume the more favorable interpretation that he's just asking questions.

Well that'll teach that poor bastard to ask a question here, good job!

Is it possible to ask a question in a patronising way?

I don't know, is it?

I would say yes.

Sorry. That wasn't the intent. I could have been clearer.

More, I don't know what ketamine does in the long term to the brain beyond stimulating the parts of the brain that get strengthened during exercise. Maybe it's doing something else and that was the motive for the curiosity. What exactly is ketamine doing in the long run to the brain?

The difference is that ketamine shows positive results in clinical trials (even for severe depression) while exercise doesn't, unless you include poor quality trials and you limit results to mild depression.

Whoa. Do you have a link to a meta-study or something like that?

For exercise?

I've posted this before. There's a newer study that has better results.

http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre...

---begin

Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies. Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies. The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. Attendance rates for exercise treatments ranged from 50% to 100%. The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive.

---end

The results are limited for Ketamine too.

http://www.cochrane.org/CD011612/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other...

How often did you have depression? Especially major depressive episodes where you have trouble to even motivate yourself to move out of the bed or do ANYTHING but just "exist" and even that seems hard?

If the answer is zero (which I think it is) do those who have it a favor and shut up. Depression is hard enough without "you just have to exercise, huahua" comments.

I over came decades of suicidal depression (as well as schizophrenia and bipolar) with a self concocted protocol which included psychedelics and now don't take traditional meds.

I read the OPs intention as "use K to get the person back from the bottom of depression and then leverage that boost in mood to start a habit of excersize"

That seems reasonable and a good approach. You want to reinvest the motivation and better mood into relationships and behaviors that will continue to compound feeling good.

I'd also recommend Gratitude as a practice and ultimately some sort of somatic work where you are encouraged to go deeply into any uncomfortable feelings with your full body.

Can you explain your protocol? That's pretty promising. I've had some good results to date but not sure how to use them in a more disciplined way to create permanent results

I'd be happy to Skype with you for 20 minutes sometime. You can email me [email protected]

While you are totally right, you could have phrased that a lot better, and don't tell people to shut up.

> If the answer is zero (which I think it is) do those who have it a favor and shut up

I get where you're coming from with this response - if you haven't been there, there is just no way you can understand how desperately bleak things can become.

But if someone is ignorant about mental health, why not try to educate that tell them to "shut up"?

We need to talk about these things, not humiliate and shut down anyone who doesn't understand.

>do those who have it a favor and shut up

Nothing is more irksome than the trend in public discussions to tell others to "shut up" if they haven't specifically experienced something.

This is a public forum. We're discussing a publicly posted article. The OP brought to the table a valid point. Let them talk.

I'll always remember a quote from a cancer researcher/professor on tv: "You don't have to be an elephant to talk about elephants." Sadly I don't have an elephant's brain so I don't remember the professor's name.

A lot of depressed people who have been able to pull themselves out of the hole can be pretty touchy about stuff like being told to exercise. OP was maybe a bit more aggressive than he needed to be, but it can be a pretty raw feeling, and mental illness has such a stigma.

When studies seem to suggest exercise helps, its pretty dangerous to shout down comments like this. Especially when you're completely misrepresenting the question.