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Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Twirrim on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:15AM (#11327814)
That article reveals a story that's one facepalm after another. An example of the worst "rockstar founder" attitude backed by apparently clueless investors.

> Powa occupied two floors of the prestigious Heron Tower at the heart of the city of London, and had equally lavish accommodation in Hong Kong, New York and across Europe.

Before having established proper cash flow?! When all their "sales" were just "letters of intent". How were investors even remotely convinced it was a good deal?

> One of the more printable comments is this: "You don't employ intelligent, highly experienced people to treat them like something unpleasant under your shoe by telling them to forget everything they know, as your way isn't working"

I wonder what the staff turnover was like? The only time I worked for a CEO who treated his employees with that little respect, they had a 90%/2 years turnover. No one was prepared to stick around and support someone who would send motivational emails saying "Ask not what your company can do for you, ask what you can do for the company" as the CEO was screwing up sales deals. I always wondered if he'd ever figure it out. Even burned my bridge there trying to help him understand what was going on during the exit interview.

> According to several former employees, at one Christmas bash in Mayfair, strippers were hired to perform, to the discomfort of many present.

Grew up idolising the worst aspects of Yuppie culture?

> "While the company was going under, he's fooling around in a photography studio pretending to be Ziggy Stardust. The guy is a narcissistic idiot."

Certainly sounds like it...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by klenwell on Monday March 21, 2016 @01:08PM (#11329598)
Fooling around in photography studio pretending to be Ziggy Stardust? I had to RTFA just to see this. Was not disappointed.

The caption is delivered with perfect English understatement:

> One member of staff described Mr Wagner as an "idiot"

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by jacquesm on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:45PM (#11329386)
> The only time I worked for a CEO who treated his employees with that little respect, they had a 90%/2 years turnover.

I know of one company that did better than that, 100% in one year. And they're of course blaming the employees for that, lack of loyalty and so on. Fairly incredible.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by rm_-rf_slash on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:07AM (#11328555)
Just curious, how did things end up at the company you worked at?

I had a similar experience with a startup out of college. On reflection, I should have noticed that among all the photos on the "mentioned in the news" billboard, the only familiar faces were the founders...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Twirrim on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:35AM (#11328788)
Still trundling along in a dead end race-to-the-bottom market. New CEO now, not sure what happened to the old one given he was also the founder, presumably he's in more of a board role or something. Unsurprisingly given the high turnover rate, I soon had no contacts left in the company and stopped paying attention. Without exception, everyone I knew has moved on to better things.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by rm_-rf_slash on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:13PM (#11329087)
Sounds eeriely similar to my own situation, without the CEO turnover. Godspeed.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by rasz_pl on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:10AM (#11328587)
wow, Mr Wagner is a real life The IT Crowd Douglas Reynholm

https://youtu.be/oye9AmOdsZc?t=5m

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by TheJCExperience on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:07PM (#11329033)
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by ttctciyf on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:26AM (#11327884)
There are some gems at the glassdoor site referred to in the article.

It is true, CTO did make whole team of people redundant on New Years Eve via voicemail - maybe 'how to' book on leadership taught him redundancy procedure.

Led by a truly odious individual, this attitude is prevalent throughout the company. Senior management are relics of the 80's living off their success in the last dotcom boom (and bust), who believe the film 'Wall Street' is a training manual for management, business practices and team leadership.

These were via https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Powa-Techn... - looks like a signup would be necessary to get the full reviews.

I noticed, though, that clicking through to the full reviews page, the most recent are glowing ones from Powa's head of development and head of sales ;)

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by jaymzcampbell on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:58AM (#11328063)
I had a meeting with their sales people back in 2013 or so, a few year anyway, and I remember thinking after the hour long pitch that the claims where entirely delusional and pumped up. It was "just" a QR code with an app behind it and ultimately nothing at all fancy but they spoke about it like it was a total paradigm shift in buying. I never got how they lasted so long, reading the glassdoor reviews over the past year it was clearly a sinking ship years ago.

I honestly can't understand how they got nearly $100m in funding.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Nursie on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:06AM (#11328109)
I saw it from the inside and thought much the same.

The PoS product was actually pretty good...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by edent on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:21AM (#11328204)
Yup - same here. The whole product was just... meh. If it had been backed by a market leader or (shudder) a consortium, it might have had a chance of success.

But a new entrant trying to sign up merchants individually?

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by madaxe_again on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:05AM (#11328542)
They weren't interested in working with platforms either - they were actually actively offensive when we contacted them. Probably something to do with Wagner's background at Venda, a platform provider he founded.

Their users group call themselves "the prisoners of Venda"!

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by astrange on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:54PM (#11329458)
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by hitekker on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:18AM (#11328643)
One reminder I say to myself when reading stories like this:

It can happen to you.

Dramatic failure, maybe not: but there are plenty of startups out there in that gray zone of "we don't really know what we're doing but we have several redeeming qualities!"

That zone, the upper 10% of "hyped" startups shall we say, are far more deceptive, and therefore dangerous, than the "obvious" bad companies, the bottom 90%. It's easy to laugh at all those investors who got hornswoggled by an out-and-out narcissist. It's less easy when the team is super- smart, the founders super-motivated and the only factors missing just happen to be what separates the 10% from the 1% who are truly successful. It could be product-market fit, work-life balance, or whatever the team needs at the moment. The only way to know is to be super-paranoid[1]

Much like the stuff on /r/subredditdrama or /r/cringe, spectacles of human foibles convey "I'm better than the worst, so I am good." which, for me, translates into a false sense of confidence.

[1] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66863.Only_the_Paranoid_S...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by julie1 on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:59PM (#11329508)
Startup business backed by VC is kind of unsound.

The traditional way maybe longer : minimal investment and constant self sustainability, but it seems also better at helping founder adapt to changes in costing and technologies.

When you have 50 customers it is easier to recognize you made a mistake in architecture and change it. While aggressive market spreading with freemium lock you in faster and makes you less agile.

Also you get very soon aware of your real costs.

But, the problem is VC+startup tends to aggressively compete with sound business in a way that has nothing to do with pure merit but often just the capacity to access capital (which according to most studies relate to birth).

I am an hardcore historical liberal, I don't really think that birth is a merit that is leading to a competitive market. Else, most of the leading economical nations would have remained monarchies. I also accept people have the right to live in dignity from their work and do not have to be all entrepreneurs.

I kind of think people misunderstand what liberalism is.

It is the right for people to choose a dignified existence through work with a clear contract of one hour worked has to be paid, and the right if people wishes to be entrepreneurs that have the possibility to access to a truly competitive market based on their merit without distortion.

And like any liberal I think it contributes to prosperity wealth and happiness of the Nations in an efficient way.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by noir_lord on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:18PM (#11330362)
> The traditional way maybe longer : minimal investment and constant self sustainability, but it seems also better at helping founder adapt to changes in costing and technologies.

True and that's the approach I'd take but there is a benefit to the other way if you have a product that is a first or is the first to do something well, first mover advantage to grow big fast required a lot of capital (the costs to do that have dropped hugely but are still not trivial).

Some businesses grow best organically and some require a shot in the arm.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by julie1 on Monday March 21, 2016 @03:11PM (#11330894)
If they require a shot in the arm backed by massive investment, I don't think privately owned interest favouring statistically birth over competence is the right way.

It is basically both ploutocratie and major life changing decision who are escaping the control of the people. Hence not driven neither by the interests of Nations nor of the environment.

We are supposed to live in democracy where the people are free to decide to not trigger a massive extinction of species or fuel wars based on biasing the access to oil or cheap enslaved workforce.

I think we have the right to decide our own destiny. But, it is because I am an idealist still believing in the rights of the people, freedom and fair competition.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by unfunco on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:04PM (#11330217)
I've worked with Venda (for two separate companies) and met Dan Wagner and their platform is truly an awful piece of software, and the man himself isn't much better, my job was basically to find methods of subverting the software in order to do what our marketing team wanted. It's roughly £6k per month, and account management is slow to respond and it's very difficult to do anything meaningful with the technology. One of the companies is still with Venda with the intention of moving away, and one moved to DemandWare after roughly a year.

Powa is Venda's answer to Shopify, trying to capture the smaller market, the software, and the management, was never good enough to compete.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by base on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:37PM (#11330559)
Some years ago Venda was sending C&D letters and suing any startup that had "vend" on their name: Alvenda, Vendder, Vendr etc. Overall an awful company.

https://dockets.justia.com/search?parties=Venda%2C+Inc&cases...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by dijit on Thursday March 24, 2016 @10:59AM (#11353292)
I worked /for/ Venda in their platform operations team in London, and everything in the original article is as true for Venda as it is for Powa.

We had herman miller aeron chairs and a prime piece of real estate in central london (by the Noel Coward theatre) but had never turned a profit, the Venda application was 2million lines of perl that could "sustain" 1 hit every 30 seconds, so most of my job was maintaining expansive arrays of caching systems.

The upper executives and thick layer of middle management were smarmy and entitled, and the operations staff took it as a challenge and a matter of personal pride to make it work "Smooth seas do not make skilled sailors" was a common motto.

I was once publicly berated for helping a customer on the phone because the management wanted to bill time for what was literally a 30 second change (I did it WHILE on the phone with them).

They do a good job of soaking up all the perl developers in London though.

also, FWIW: they sold the company to someone shortly after I left, it may be better managed now, but I can't be sure.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by unfunco on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @03:12PM (#11441060)
I visited the office a few times between maybe 2008 and 2012, if you were working there then, we likely were in the same room at some point.

I can't remember the exact syntax, but I used to find it hilarious that each Venda tag had to have a unique label, and since the code was notoriously difficult to navigate, everyone just ended up using random numbers and hoping that it wasn't used elsewhere.

    <venda_something label=5318008>
        ...
    </venda_something>
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Nursie on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:52AM (#11328022)
I worked with them through 2014 and saw the NYE firing. Pretty brutal.

But at that point the 'agile' team hadn't delivered in over a year. Badly mismanaged...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by chris_wot on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:08AM (#11328118)
What exactly happened on NYE?
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Nursie on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:15AM (#11328162)
About 20/30 developers were fired via SMS on NYE 2013/14
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by busterarm on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:02PM (#11330198)
Support.com (NASDAQ and soon to be OTCBB[sauce]: SPRT) let go of over 20% of their call center by email/robocall that same day. That was a 'fun' year.

[sauce]: https://biz.yahoo.com/e/160223/sprt8-k.html

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by coldcode on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:23AM (#11328684)
Getting money from VCs is usually difficult, how do idiots like this guy scam $200M from people? Makes the VCs look equally stupid.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by d4nt on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:42PM (#11329352)
I think people generally assume that confidence is backed up by reality. I've found that one of the most useful sales techniques is to be friendly and polite but also very confident. People find it reassuring.

Sounds like this guy took it to the extreme though, and lost all perspective on reality along the way.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by cubano on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:58PM (#11329504)
Hmmm...yes maybe that picture of him in the Bowie getup was the giveaway for that conclusion?
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by UK-AL on Monday March 21, 2016 @06:49PM (#11332830)
It's all about confidence and perception.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by drcongo on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:37AM (#11328330)
The opening paragraph on the CEO's wikipedia page is a gem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Wagner
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by yitchelle on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:16AM (#11328623)
Another gem from wikipedia "His choice of attire (a Donald Duck waistcoat) to a media photocall ahead of the MAID IPO was considered responsible for reducing the value of shares by 10p."
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by MattyRad on Monday March 21, 2016 @01:33PM (#11329914)
Unfortunately a quick google image search for "Dan Wagner donald duck waistcoat" yields no results, but that would be quite something so see.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by petetnt on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:49PM (#11330687)
That guy really is something, serial entrepreneur indeed. Maybe he lost his mind during the dot-com bubble burst.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by diskcat on Monday March 21, 2016 @08:55AM (#11327702)
You need basically every merchant to sign up for your payment app to work.

Otherwise people would just use credit cards, who have been here since forever.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by maffydub on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:42AM (#11327960)
I'm not sure you need every merchant - I think you only need a significant proportion of the merchants that a specific population use.

I probably make most of my purchases with a very small group of retailers - for example, in terms of number (not value) of transactions, the sandwich shop by my work and the corner shop by my house probably account for 80% of my offline transactions. (I go to the supermarket about once a week, and although I tend to buy more, that's all in a single transaction.)

If you could sign up those merchants, and give me a compelling reason (convenience, discounts, rewards) to use your payment app, it might not matter that I couldn't use your payment app on those rare occasions that I go shopping somewhere else.

Just a thought. (I'm not in the payment industry.)

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by eterm on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:49AM (#11328005)
Local shops all accept contactless payment though, which is faster than anything involving a smart phone could ever be. You literally just hover your debit card near the terminal and you're done, no pin, no signing[* ], it's quicker than unlocking a phone.

[* ] I've only once in my life ever had to sign for a transaction, it's not a common method, I just mention it here because I know some countries still use it.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by zelos on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:58AM (#11328065)
Yes - I wonder about that every time I see an ad for Apple Pay or some other payment app. Contactless is rapidly becoming the default, so how do you compete with it?
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Reason077 on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:43AM (#11328376)
I wonder about that every time I see an ad for Apple Pay or some other payment app. Contactless is rapidly becoming the default, so how do you compete with it?

Apple Pay doesn't really compete with Contactless - they are the same thing! Any merchant that accepts contactless therefore accepts Apple Pay as well, whether they advertise it or not. (Here in the UK, at least)

Apple Pay is a bit more secure because transactions are authenticated with your fingerprint via Touch ID, and the merchant gets a special device card number rather than your real card number. But as far as the payment terminal knows it's just like any regular contactless card.

Whether it's more convenient to take your contactless card out of your pocket/wallet, or use an Apple Pay device is a matter for debate. I find that I usually already have my phone in my hand while standing in a checkout line, so I pay with that rather than fumbling for my card.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Mvandenbergh on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:17AM (#11328180)
ApplePay actually works on contactless payment terminals. Since it has multi-factor authentication, you could potentially make larger transactions using it than you can with contactless cards. In practice that doesn't usually work yet because most payment terminals don't know that they can accept a larger limit from some payment devices.

If your phone can do everything that your card can do (and a lot more!), why carry the card?

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by throwaway049 on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:18AM (#11328635)
My card never needs recharging. I don't use phone payment but if I did I would still have the card as backup.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by ghaff on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:55PM (#11329471)
I may just be being a luddite but there are 3 or 4 cards I like to have with me along with a little cash. I go back and forth whether it's worth carrying an actual wallet or not. I don't want to be in a situation where, if something happens to my phone (including running out of juice), that I have absolutely nothing else on me.

(I also print out airline boarding passes unless it's not convenient to do so for some reason. I'm not fanatical about it, but if it's just 30 seconds of effort, I figure that I might as well.)

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by simonh on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:22AM (#11328205)
Most people have their phone more easily to hand than a card, which needs to be extracted from a wallet or purse. So in practice Apple Pay is often faster and more convenient.

It's also more secure because you're authenticated by the fingerprint scanner, and it's anonymous.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by m-i-l on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:05PM (#11329014)
Apple Pay is often faster and more convenient

There have been several times I've got stuck behind someone using their Apple phone to get through the gates on the London Underground and have noticed two or three people get through the gates on either side in the same time as the one with the Apple phone. And it isn't just me - according to http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/16/tfl-cautio... the iPhone "has led to irate commuters and queues at the gates".

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Reason077 on Monday March 21, 2016 @06:49PM (#11332832)
People on the Tube using Apple Pay need to realise that you can do the Touch ID authorisation before reaching the ticket gates.

The transaction will stay authorised for a couple of minutes, at least, and then the gates will open nearly instantly when you put your phone near the sensor.

This isn't an issue for using Apple Pay via the Apple Watch, since that device skips the Touch ID requirement (instead, it will de-authorise if you take it off your wrist).

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by diskcat on Monday March 21, 2016 @01:34PM (#11329924)
>and it's anonymous.

no it's not.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by woah on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:16AM (#11328178)
By only requiring the customer to carry one device.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by chris_wot on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:02AM (#11328080)
I was just thinking "contactless payment", right after I did a Google search for the "innovative" CueCat.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by ianes on Monday March 21, 2016 @04:53PM (#11331918)
For those interested in seeing Dan Wagner in action, this is a video Christmas message (4.44 mins) sent to all staff in December 2015. Powa went into administration in February.

http://youtu.be/sWhI5YK-_No

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by CM30 on Monday March 21, 2016 @04:29PM (#11331664)
Wow, the letter of intent thing is kind of depressing. I mean, say what you like about Dragon's Den/Shark Tank esque 'business' TV shows, but that point comes up in almost every episode; a letter of intent is not a deal or contract. But no, a '2 billion dollar' business was rewarding staff for getting these.

And yeah, all the expensive office space, fraternity esque atmosphere, manager posing for photoshoots stuff... it's like the company was set up and run by people who wanted the glamour of running a large company rather than those who wanted to actually make a viable business out of it. The whole thing feels like something you'd read about a dotcom business in the 90s, right before the crash.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by debarshri on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:50AM (#11328433)
Story sounds quite close to what happened to boo.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boo.com
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by willvarfar on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:56AM (#11328467)
The CEO's wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Wagner says:

"Wagner remained on the board of MAID until 2001 and founded Venda Inc later that year.[6] Venda Inc is provider of e-commerce software originally built using technology from the defunct company Boo.com.[1][4] Wagner had acquired Boo.com for £250,000 in 2000 following the dot-com crash.[12]

...

In 2007 he also founded Powa Technologies, an e-commerce business based on Venda Inc's small business solution, but with additional services for in-store and mobile point of sale and software for mobile payments called PowaTag and PowaPOS, formerly known as mPowa. Wagner introduced PowaTag in 2014, after receiving more than $100 million in funding.[15] Users of the service can make purchases using QR codes, audio watermarks and iBeacons.[6][16]"

So Boo.com -> Venda Inc -> Powa Tech :)

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by dullroar on Monday March 21, 2016 @12:54PM (#11329462)
Later in the wiki article: "Wagner operates his various business interests from a holding company called Bright Station. Bright Station has revenues of $50 million and employs 450 staff." Am I the only one who thinks $111,111 in annual revenue per staff member is really low for a supposed tech holding company? The multiplier should be much higher than that (or they're paying slave wages plus stock options to make those numbers work).
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by debarshri on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:11AM (#11328596)
How can investors not see this coming?
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by TheJCExperience on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:17AM (#11328627)
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by l33tbro on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:31AM (#11328290)
Good riddance. Dan Wagner was basically Gordon Gecko via David Brent.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by VMG on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:58AM (#11328478)
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by Toenex on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:38AM (#11328818)
Link not working in the UK due to copyright. This one does though https://youtu.be/L3pXnzBPT98?t=27s

It's from a comedy pilot called 'Golden Years' which is very clearly a development step towards 'The Office'.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by eterm on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:38AM (#11327941)
" The start-up said that adding its PowaTag button to sites would reduce the risk of customers changing their mind before completing a purchase "

Instead they'll change their mind after it has been dispatched, costing the vendor more.

In the UK at least distance selling rules mean that anything[1] bought on the internet can be returned up to 14 days later without requiring a reason.

[1] There are of course some exceptions for certain product types.

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by ianes on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:24AM (#11328227)
interesting insight here into how Powa's management tried to manipulate the reviews on the Glassdoor site, written by an ex-CFO of Powa.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/powa-glassdoor-reviews-were-m...

Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by abawany on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:30PM (#11330504)
(bit off-topic): it seems human nature to manipulate reviews (Yelp, Glassdoor, Google) especially when "anonymous". Seems like what is needed is a third party to verify identity and certify to the review site that the reviewer is real and from a real person. This hopefully will maintain anonymity unless a sub-poena is involved.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by danso on Monday March 21, 2016 @01:11PM (#11329629)
Sounds like some people were miffed that they missed out on Clinkle and overcorrected a bit too much.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by spacker on Monday March 21, 2016 @01:17PM (#11329713)
Dan Wagner talking about an employers' responsibilities to its employees https://youtu.be/Udc46TNfOtY?t=3m42s
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by MattyRad on Monday March 21, 2016 @01:40PM (#11329972)
Sounds like the startup was run by Russ Hanneman. It's eerie that the characters in Silicon Valley (the TV show) can be pointed to real life people so easily.
Re:Powa: The startup that fell to earth by jorgecurio on Monday March 21, 2016 @02:55PM (#11330753)
> the deal". Mr Wagner, who claims to have a stellar record as a serial entrepreneur, was still telling everyone who would listen that his was a company that would be bigger than Google or Facebook one day. As recently as last October, he told Evan Davis on Radio 4's Bottom Line that the business had been valued at $2.7bn by its backers Wellington. Evan suggested that was a meaningless figure because Powa hadn't made any money yet. "We're a growth tech business," Mr Wagner replied, maintaining it was other people who had set that value.

holy crap this reads just like the interview with Pets.com in a 1999 edition of some PC magazine