What's actually "a limited time (the “eligible period”)" they talk about? (all the quotes from your link http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-specificat... ):
"For a limited time (the “eligible period”), on systems upgraded to Windows 10 from one of these older versions of Windows (a “qualified system”), a DVD playback app (“windows DVD player”) will be installed."
And I've actually paid for the Media Pack upgrade. It goes away now for sure:
"Windows Media Center will be removed."
That's bonkers. Ok, it was never a great player and every half-decent geek uses VLC or better, but still, plenty of people use MediaPlayer every day.
Tech support hotlines will be overwhelmed by furious customers.
It's the times we live in. All* the PCs have DVD drives they can't use, and all the Macs can play DVDs just fine except they don't have drives.
* Warning. No actual All intended.
Of course! How would rationality be independent of one's values? When I'm choosing, I choose what I choose because I think the other options are, even if very slightly, worse than the one I'm choosing. If I know the full context, options and the decision made from another individual and that decision isn't the one I would make, I would call it irrational and that would be my opinion. That situation could mean that we don't share the same values/beliefs or have different information.
My curiosity stated in my comment was genuine as one would expect higher information equality and similar values/beliefs among the people in the same community compared to a random set of people. However, my experience is different. Even when new information becomes available, I see people bending their values to keep their previous decisions "rational" and interestingly this, if you ask me, is more common in the tech world.
> (...) jerks like you (...)
I think that was uncalled for, but then, I guess you have strong beliefs in this area. Have a nice day.
At this point, I can't take what you are saying as anything more than random attacks, sorry.
> The amount straw grasping I've seen when people try to justify their purchases leaves me unable to tell anymore
The Mac mention in the grand-(...)-parent is just an example there. Surprise: I own a Mac.
> Except that's exactly what we were talking about here: Saying that people are "irrational" for not buying the same thing the poster did, in this case, Apple products.
It seems to me that you are the only one talking about people being irrational or not. People can't be irrational. Decisions can and only with different knowledge and/or values.
> I believe that if you care that much about what other people are using to the point where you would have to question their rationality, then you're a class-A jerk.
Class-A attack towards a straw man! :) Your potential issues with a stereotype have nothing to do with what I said. Good luck in your crusade, though.
"Xbox Video supports all the video files you’ve probably been downloading the VLC Media Player desktop app to watch."
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2015/01/25/windows-10-vs-window...
Of course, it would be nice if Windows 10 just included that and saved everyone the trouble.
I know this isn't your point, but you might be happy to learn that Xbox Music and Xbox Video have been renamed in Windows 10 to "Groove Music" and "Video", respectively. According to Microsoft, most users thought "I don't have an Xbox, why would I want to use Xbox Music?" — so they rebranded those apps.
WMP was never a great player, but at least it would ship the necessary DVD-reading machinery as well as a license for using it legally.
Until Windows 8, Microsoft did this for you behind the scenes. From Windows 8 onwards, Microsoft stopped doing it; you could either pay them to do it again, or OEMs would do it for you.
With 10, Microsoft just won't do it. I expect OEMs will still do it on new devices, but upgrades are anybody's guess.
For a limited time (the “eligible period”), on systems upgraded to Windows 10 from one of these older versions of Windows (a “qualified system”), a DVD playback app (“windows DVD player”) will be installed.
I just checked with my Windows 7 Ultimate machine I upgraded this morning and sure enough, I have a Windows DVD Player there. Like many users, I have no DVD drive and no DVDs, so I can't confirm it works.
Also, Windows 8 didn't come with a DVD license, you had to buy it separately as part of the "Pro Pack" or "Media Center Pack." The base editions of Windows 7 (below Home Premium) also didn't include one.
I have to believe the number of people who actually use that can be counted in the tenths of a percent of their user base.
That said, if you have cable TV in the US, it was the best way to use your own hardware to watch cable TV.
> Neither French law nor European conventions recognize software as patentable (see French section below). Therefore, software patents licenses do not apply on VideoLAN software.
Well, there are 2 legal parts that apply here: - DRM - software patents.
Software patents for DVDs are almost all over (it's a 20 year old technology). And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents.
On the DRM part, libdvdcss is not DeCSS, it's either finding the right key or brute-forcing to find the right key. In order to play a DVD, you need to "open" the DRM, else you cannot have playback.
In the case of VLC+libdvdcss-bundle, it's usually fine in (sane) juridictions because it's a player, not violating the copyrights holders. On some other, it's illegal.
That is categorically untrue, and you should stop telling people that. In Europe, software is not patent-eligible "as such", but it is if it solves a technical problem.
The only thing that eliminates is "business method" patents, which are just a subset of what people generally refer to as "software patents".
Just because the patents expire doesn't make the anti-circumvention laws go away. Those laws only stop applying once the copyright on the DVD expires, in a century or so.
"libdvdcss
libdvdcss is a library that can find and guess keys from a DVD in order to decrypt it. This method is authorized by a French law decision CE 10e et 9e soussect., 16 juillet 2008, n° 301843 on interoperability.
NB: In the USA, you should check out the US Copyright Office decision that allows circumvention in some cases."
How do you not circumvent the copy protection to read a DVD?
(See my various talks about libdvdcss)
The case here seems more related to the MPEG patents though.
I think there was also the Sony jailbreaking guy who settled with Sony out of court.
The law made "organized discussion" about breaking copy protection illegal so they also created a website with the title "organized discussion" and displayed code for breaking the protection and someone also paid 5 cents for it after which they turned themselves in :)
Apparently the lower courts acquitted them but that was reversed and the supreme court didn't take the case. So the end result is that it's illegal but they didn't receive any penalties. Apparently the European court of human rights didn't accept the case either.
http://mjr.iki.fi/eucd/ (discussed here in Finnish)
http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/dvdn-katselu-... (news article about it)
Also read about the legality aspects of the Microsoft's DVD solutions up to now and of the open-source DVD players:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/if-vlc-can-ship-a-free-dvd-play...
Everyone has to stop using that as an excuse. It doesn't even make sense & it's myopic. Obsolescence is built into Windows. If you want to continue being safe using Windows you NEED to upgrade. You can choose not to upgrade, but it's at your detriment.
It's a choice until it's not.
Honestly I get the strong sense we wouldn't even be having this discussion if Windows 10 was NOT free i.e. if it costs $100. Since then people would simply not feel compelled to upgrade, instead it is free for a limited period, so people feel compelled and are now complaining about being "forced" to.
The reality is you can use Windows 7 until 2020. Just go ahead and do that then.
entitled -- to give (a person or thing) a title, right, or claim to something
I spent my money, I can be entitled. Besides this isn't just about libdvdcss. There are many withdrawn features and anti-features included.
No, you didn't. You spend $0 on Windows 10.
You spent money on Windows 7 and you can continue to use that without restriction.
You absolutely are acting entitled for something which is free.
The pricing may be the same, you may even be able to download the components, but the difference exists and there is choice to select something without.
They may have been forced to do it, but you are paying for a product WITH media player, same price or not.
"Microsoft confirmed to ZDNet that Windows Media Center is indeed finished, and users who upgrade to Windows 10 will no longer see it."
http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-will-include-option...
"In a statement on his Twitter account, Windows Insider leader Gabriel Aul provided this tidbit of news:
"The main scenario people used WMC for was to play DVD. We'll provide another option for DVD playback in the future."
Exactly what this option will be, and if it might be free or if it will cost Windows 10 users extra, has yet to be announced."
Yes they do. The upgrade assistant warns you during the upgrade process[0] and specifically has you confirm it.
[1]: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_app...
EXPAND.exe PINBALL.IN_ C:\PINBALL.INF
EXPAND.exe PINBALL.EX_ C:\PINBALL\PINBALL.EXE
EXPAND.exe PINBALL.HL_ C:\PINBALL\PINBALL.HLP
REM etc.
Windows 8.1 had no built in DVD player. Nor did Windows 7 Starter or Basic. Further, I suspect it's a feature that the vast majority of people have never used, exactly why Microsoft decided that they wouldn't subsidize the licensing for no reason. This is a very 2002 discussion.
Not that your point isn't valid -- at least for those users who ever actually tried playing a video DVD, and who had a supporting version of Windows -- it's just pretty odd that such a comment sits at the very top of an enormous technology event.
The Tesla doesn't come with a holder for my buggy whip.
Tech people like you and me love to nitpick. It's quite "logical", measurable, and it generalizes complex issues into nicely formatted bullet points.
What you call "an enormous technology event" I call a disaster, showing perfect "we don't care for the current users" attitude, even after the public demonstrated what it thinks about the "improvements" in Windows 8. The commenters here rightly point that the returned Start menu is even worse than it was during the tech preview. And I have actually paid for my copies of Ultimate and Pro with Media Center versions and I actually need the features I note are now quietly removed. It's your right that you don't need them, but I do need them and the people who consider installing 10 should know about it too.
Don't upgrade. You paid $0 for Windows 10, had absolutely no expectations about it when you apparently bought Windows 7, and now it's a "disaster" because an unused feature was openly and clearly removed. Give me a break.
This sort of "take a shit on everything" attitude is one of the worst facets of HN, and your comments in particular exemplify them. Don't upgrade. Move on.
The few DVDs which malfunction are typically published by Disney in the last few years and contain DRM specifically designed to break unlicensed players. VLC have been very active in fixing these issues, and have in many cases.
But if people plan on using VLC just be aware that the rare DVD won't work well or at all. Still the best DVD playing software I've used, including paid software.
Don't upgrade to 10 and keep your old functionality.
inversionOf is making some valid points here, there is no need to attack him.
Because I question the importance of DVD playing ability relative to an enormous, free release? Give me a break.
I suppose this mean that you and acqq must work for Apple or Google or some other competitor that is trying to undermine Microsoft. By your logic, that is just as, if not more, rational.
Exact same old craptastic System Image backup stuff. Still can't only backup my C drive, got to include my TB's of bulk data on non-system drives too, grr.
I at least found the one tiny non-critical service I had installed from my downloads drive - a PS3 controller driver. Ironically having removed that, the drive in question is now impossible to include in a backup. WTF.
It's all very frustrating when you just want to make an image of a single drive.
They apparently (the twitter message isn't actually the company statement) plan to return it "sometime in the future" and "if it might be free or if it will cost" is TBA:
http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-will-include-option...
The Media Player capabilities, if you have them in your Windows edition, will be for ever deleted. Just so.
Moreover, note that the upgrade can reduce the functionality of your notebook: Microsoft made the deal with the hardware producers about integrating hidden partitions to allow the recovery from the hard disk, but the upgrade process will just make sure that the Windows runs, not that your recovery from the hard disk functionality, managed by each hardware vendor independently (based on the recommendations from Microsoft) would be preserved.
I don't use the recovery mechanism, but I do use backup. When the recovery partitions aren't right, the built in backup (which was kept from Windows 7) doesn't work on Windows 8.1.
The same story happened with the transition from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 (I have such a notebook).
Anybody knows if the "Windows 7" style full disk backup survived in Windows 10?