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Re:Oculus Rift by jonknee on Thursday June 11, 2015 @02:49PM (#9701507)
The Xbox controller is really surprising to me. Years in development and it will ship with an Xbox controller. Oculus Touch didn't even get demonstrated and "prototype" was mentioned time and again.
Re:Oculus Rift by taylorwc on Thursday June 11, 2015 @02:53PM (#9701538)
That really doesn't bother me. Having used an Xbox One controller regularly, I think it is a fantastic controller, and I like that Oculus didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. I am excited about new interfaces other than a traditional controller though.
Re:Oculus Rift by badsock on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:25PM (#9701741)
VR definitely needs a reinvented wheel in this case. Being able to move your head in virtual space but not your hands is clearly suboptimal, and the motion sensors in that generation of controllers are not up to the task.

My take: this a bandaid, so they can get the headset out in Q1, ahead of the proper controllers in Q2. Not what they wanted to do, but Vive forced their hand on timing.

Re:Oculus Rift by Kapura on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:32PM (#9701790)
I'm curious as to why you think that freedom of hand motion is essential for VR. Certainly I can think of many VR experiences where it would be useful, but I can think of just as many where having discreet inputs (buttons) would be preferable.

For example, a spaceship piloting game that allows the players head to rotate and look out the windows could very easily be controlled with a traditional gamepad.

Re:Oculus Rift by badsock on Thursday June 11, 2015 @08:26PM (#9703286)
I definitely agree with you that the "cockpit" games (racing, space combat, et al.), and things like Lucky's Tale are well served by the current controller, but I don't think it's going serve VR well outside of those niches. Which isn't what you want from the default, bundled controller.

Even just a few years ago most people were thinking that game genre popularity would just map into VR - i.e. Witchers and CoDs would be king. What's becoming more and more apparent is that VR is such a different medium that we need a whole new set game genres and mechanics.

For instance: locomotion with the left controller stick, head movement with the right (which the current controllers are brilliantly adapted for) is such a core controller "idiom" right now, but when applied to VR it's just horrible - a recipe for nausea and disorientation.

If you look at the kinds of experiences that are being developed around Valve's controllers, they're all huge departures from the games we currently play, and the reason is that Valve, as game designers, realized from an early point just how far back to the drawing board we need to go. VR is just too different, with different objectives (immersion), possible modes of interaction, and human weaknesses to address.

Re:Oculus Rift by Cantremeber on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:04PM (#9702000)
Hell, even most driving games. Why would I want to use my hands to work phantom controls rather then get the physical feed back of an xbox controller.

I for one am looking forward to GTA 5 which I'm convinced they added a first person mode to future proof against VR.

Re:Oculus Rift by chrischen on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:24PM (#9702854)
There's a whole industry around driving controllers (steering wheels, seats, gearboxes, breaks and pedals).
Re:Oculus Rift by cloakandswagger on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:43PM (#9702268)
Because the entire VR experience is a summation of its immersive elements. Immersion in one domain (control, sound, display) can make up for immersive shortcomings in another domain.
Re:Oculus Rift by untog on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:45PM (#9702948)
I'm curious as to why you think that freedom of hand motion is essential for VR.

It also great increases the chances of hitting something while you're waving you arms around...

Re:Oculus Rift by pyrocat on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:55PM (#9701930)
Interestingly enough, it looks like it will be wireless, which currently isn't possible with the PC. The Xbox One controller is only wireless for Xbox, the drivers/wireless receiver aren't available for PC. I wonder if they partnered with Microsoft to make it wireless?
Re:Oculus Rift by joombaga on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:04PM (#9701999)
A wireless receiver was recently announced for the Xbox One controller. It will be released later this year.

http://majornelson.com/2015/06/09/new-xbox-one-1tb-console-u...

Re:Oculus Rift by epmatsw on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:00PM (#9702398)
Microsoft announced a wireless adapter for PC a couple of days ago http://www.anandtech.com/show/9358/microsoft-launches-update...
Re:Oculus Rift by eco on Thursday June 11, 2015 @07:35PM (#9703123)
It'll be Windows 10 only (which has a lot of people speculating that Oculus Rift may be Windows 10 only).
Re:Oculus Rift by lucb1e on Friday June 12, 2015 @07:51AM (#9705281)
> I like that Oculus didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel

Fair point, but instead of a custom controller you could use any old controller you have lying around. Bundling it just increases the price.

Re:Oculus Rift by fudged71 on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:41PM (#9701835)
It could have been possible to rebrand or restyle the controller to actually match the headset. It's a bit strange to buy something from them which you could get on a store shelf in Walmart for years. Make it exclusive somehow.
Re:Oculus Rift by 0x0 on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:03PM (#9701614)
Since OR is under Facebook, and Facebook has been fairly Microsoft friendly in the past (opting for bing maps and some office docs stuff etc), it doesn't seem like a huge surprise, especially since Sony/PS4 has their own thing in development (Morpheus)

I guess this also explains the earlier announcement dropping OSX and Linux support.

Re:Oculus Rift by nightski on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:25PM (#9701742)
I think it is more than Facebook being MS "friendly". Like it or not, Windows is still the dominant platform for PC gaming period. As much as many would like this to change, it is not even close to happening.
Re:Oculus Rift by agildehaus on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:08PM (#9702018)
Oculus not bothering means they're just part of why it's not happening.

Valve on the other hand seems to fully embrace OSX/Linux (with both Steam and the Vive) and have done plenty to improve gaming on those platforms.

I think I know which HMD I'll be purchasing.

Re:Oculus Rift by nightski on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:02PM (#9702416)
Fair enough but I don't think a display is the place to start when trying to change something like this.

I am sure the Vive will be great, but let's face it the vast majority of titles on Steam are Windows only. Valve may like the idea of Linux gaming, but they push a lot of Windows games...

Re:Oculus Rift by unfamiliar on Friday June 12, 2015 @04:42AM (#9704689)
Its not just the display. I'm presuming there will be a whole ecosystem of games designed with the Rift in mind. By making it Windows only you effectively tell all those developers not to bother developing their games for OS X or Linux.
Re:Oculus Rift by shmerl on Friday June 12, 2015 @04:43PM (#9708416)
> I'm presuming there will be a whole ecosystem of games designed with the Rift in mind.

I think developers should not bother developing for Rift then. There are alternatives which are cross platform and not beholden to MS walled gardens.

Stronger competition will make them change this stupid attitude.

Re:Oculus Rift by nightski on Saturday June 13, 2015 @12:50PM (#9711598)
That is just it though, is not a stupid attitude because the market that cares about this sort of thing and buys games is very small. Most of the complainers on HN do not play games. Over 95% of machines using the steam platform are windows.
Re:Oculus Rift by shmerl on Saturday June 13, 2015 @10:41PM (#9713652)
I play all my games on Linux, so I have little respect for those who treat Linux users as third class citizens.
Re:Oculus Rift by TwoBit on Thursday June 11, 2015 @09:41PM (#9703531)
Vive doesn't support Linux or MacOS.
Re:Oculus Rift by xanderstrike on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:43PM (#9701849)
The Xbox One controller isn't the only controller for PC gaming. It isn't even the only Xbox controller for PC gaming.
Re:Oculus Rift by phren0logy on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:03PM (#9701983)
Sure, but it is the best one (considering both hardware and drivers/game support).

Come on man, give credit where credit is due.

Re:Oculus Rift by rictic on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:11PM (#9702464)
The XBox One controller has to be plugged in to work on Windows, which kills its utility for me. Can't play from the couch.
Re:Oculus Rift by nightski on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:49PM (#9702670)
Well the Rift ships in Q1 2016. So by the time it comes out, you will have access to the Wireless PC adapter they announced coming this fall.
Re:Oculus Rift by rictic on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:36PM (#9707362)
Oh, cool!
Re:Oculus Rift by cies on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:28PM (#9701762)
Dropping Linux support means dropping SteamBox support? Wow, I'm stunned.
Re:Oculus Rift by 0x0 on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:01PM (#9701975)
Isn't Valve also working on their own hardware, "SteamVR", with HTC? (While Samsung is cooperating with Oculus)
Re:Oculus Rift by pantalaimon on Thursday June 11, 2015 @09:09PM (#9703440)
SteamBox is Vaporware anyway
Re:Oculus Rift by ohitsdom on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:14PM (#9702071)
It will be interesting to watch this relationship as Microsoft's HoloLens develops.
Re:Oculus Rift by threeseed on Friday June 12, 2015 @12:27AM (#9704062)
The two don't really overlap.

Rift is likely to be purely gaming/social. HoloLens seems to be far more productivity/goal driven.

Re:Oculus Rift by Kiro on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:14PM (#9702070)
Microsoft owns a couple of % of Facebook.
Re:Oculus Rift by pyrocat on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:04PM (#9701620)
Why reinvent the wheel? The xbox controller is widely considered the gold standard.
Re:Oculus Rift by lelandbatey on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:10PM (#9701653)
Exactly; Microsoft invested approximately $100 million into development of the Xbox One controller[0], and it shows.

[0] - http://www.gamesradar.com/video-designing-xbox-one-controlle...

Re:Oculus Rift by nilkn on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:16PM (#9701693)
The Xbox One controller is certainly good, but the mini-trackpad-button-hybrid on the PS4 controller is a real touch of genius in interacting with menus, when support is properly implemented.
Re:Oculus Rift by foldor on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:32PM (#9701788)
Really? What games have you found that the trackpad has worked well on? I haven't played too many PS4 games, but every game that's implemented that trackpad hasn't done it in a way that I feel like it's been to my benefit.
Re:Oculus Rift by nilkn on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:44PM (#9702281)
So far games haven't really taken advantage of it, except to gain two more buttons (it can sense which side you're pressing down on). But the built-in keyboard uses it, for example, which makes typing a breeze.

The potential is there, it's just up to developers to actually use it. Keep in mind that the PS4 didn't even have a single truly good exclusive game until Bloodborne came out recently. It's taking this new generation of consoles a long time to really kick off.

Re:Oculus Rift by yohui on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:37PM (#9709659)
The DualShock 4 is arguably even a better PC controller than the Xbox controllers. Its out-of-the-box support is decent, but it really shines when paired with ds4drv for Linux or DS4Windows (both open source tools), which allow you to play Xbox controller games, use the touchpad as a mouse, set LED colors, and create macros/profiles.

ds4drv: https://github.com/chrippa/ds4drv

DS4Windows: http://ds4windows.com/

Re:Oculus Rift by madsushi on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:44PM (#9702271)
The X360 controller is/was the gold standard, the XBONE controller has more mixed reviews. I personally prefer Sony's DS4 to the XBONE controller (for next-gen controllers). But I still keep an X360 controller around.
Re:Oculus Rift by dec0dedab0de on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:54PM (#9702360)
I think the GameCube had the best controller ever.
Re:Oculus Rift by Bahamut on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:12PM (#9702476)
The gold standard is Nintendo's controllers, not Microsoft's.
Re:Oculus Rift by izacus on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:37PM (#9702616)
Xbox 360 controller was the go-to reference controller for pretty much any PC-released games in last 5 or so years - mostly due to it's automatic integration with XInput protocol used by pretty much everyone. I guess the only limiting factor why it wasn't replaced by the One controller is the fact that the PC receiver hasn't been released yet.

Nintendo never made anything that would connect to PCs.

Re:Oculus Rift by pyrocat on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:29PM (#9702575)
Really? I certainly liked the N64 and Gamecube controllers, but they're not exactly ideal designs for a "universal controller". The wiimote had kind of crappy motion controls and was borderline useless for anything that didn't involve motion. The Wii U uses upgraded wiimotes that suffer the same problem, and the gamepad is more like a giant gameboy than a controller. Plus we can't use any of those controllers on a PC without additional adapters or significant hardware hacks. The Xbox 360 (and to a similar degree Xbox One) controller is designed to be universal, and if you look at what people are using for PC gaming it's pretty much just those two.
Re:Oculus Rift by morsch on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:11PM (#9702784)
The Wiimote is just a bluetooth device, there's no hardware hack or adapter necessary to connect it to a PC, you just need a driver. Not that I ever used it outside of an emulator.
Re:Oculus Rift by Bahamut on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:58PM (#9702999)
Wii U Pro Controller sure beats what we have with the PS4 and XBox one controllers.
Re:Oculus Rift by ndgold on Thursday June 11, 2015 @08:05PM (#9703210)
Nintendo controllers are god tier in quality, reliability, and unique integration with games. When I see the Xbox controllers all I can think of are Microsoft Sidewinders.
Re:Oculus Rift by dbbolton on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:32PM (#9701786)
I was equally surprised by the on-ear style headphones. I'm sure the design team thought about the choice in depth and has good reasons behind it, but I would have imagined over-ear to be better for immersion (personally I find them more comfortable as well).
Re:Oculus Rift by malandrew on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:00PM (#9702405)
The technical terms are supra-aural (on-ear) and circum-aural (around the ears). Both can be sound-wise excellent, but circum-aural is definitely more comfortable.

I used to own a pair of Joe Grado HP-1 HP-1000 supra-aural headphones and they were excellent and did a great job with binaural recordings. Since selling those, I moved on to the Denon D7000 circum-aural headphones. Far more comfortable. Bar none the best audio experience I have had was with AKG K-1000s hooked up to 75-watt tubes monoblocks. However, that wouldn't have worked for VR presence because of the latency from the tubes. With solid state speaker amps to keep the audio in sync, the presence would probably be unreal, assuming the K-1000s do well with binaural recordings, but that is something I'm uncertain of.

Re:Oculus Rift by dbbolton on Thursday June 11, 2015 @08:59PM (#9703403)
I'm not arguing about sound quality though. When I said "immersion" I was thinking about over-ear headphones generally having better isolation than on-ear.
Re:Oculus Rift by LesZedCB on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:41PM (#9701838)
Sounds quality isn't really dependent on circumaural vs supra-aural headphones. The major complaint I hear with supra-aural headphones is that they apply pressure on the ears, which can be unconfortable. Sound quality, however, is largely affected by the drivers.
Re:Oculus Rift by tgb on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:46PM (#9702953)
Will these apply much pressure on the ears? Many headphones use the earpieces to stay in place, but these are positioned by the Rift's straps which should be able to do it without pressure from the earpieces.
Re:Oculus Rift by oldpond on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:50PM (#9702330)
This is correct. It's called listening fatigue.
Re:Oculus Rift by malandrew on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:02PM (#9702415)
It's not just listening fatigue from sound, but the pressure applied to the ear-lobes. I have used circum-aural headphones that I can use for hours upon hours since they were very comfortable (no pressure) and were not too bright or forward that they caused listening fatigue.
Re:Oculus Rift by Kurtz79 on Friday June 12, 2015 @04:01AM (#9704576)
Yes, I have a pair of Grado S60 (supra-aural) which are by far my best sounding headphones, but I cannot use them for many hours on end for this reason, as loose as I try to set them, they eventually become uncomfortable.
Re:Oculus Rift by swashboon on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:55PM (#9701933)
Its about the noise canceling.
Re:Oculus Rift by wildpeaks on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:21PM (#9701723)
At least now we know why they went Windows-only for the time being
Re:Oculus Rift by Kapura on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:35PM (#9701802)
If you think that's the only reason, you should look into the additional dev costs of building modern games on mac and linux.
Re:Oculus Rift by babuskov on Thursday June 11, 2015 @07:26PM (#9703086)
What is really needed IMHO is a mind-reader. Something simple that would detect brain waves and allow you to move around. That way one could aim by turning your head and move by thinking about it.

I know tech. has some way to go before it gets there, but that is the missing piece that would make this the next level of computing (and probably one that would cause Half Life 3 to finally show up).

Re:Oculus Rift by jfoster on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:38AM (#9704244)
Head turning without thinking about it would probably induce motion sickness. I think something the earlier Rifts taught us (through low framerates, lack of head tracking, etc.) is that our brains freak out if there are any significant inconsistencies between our movements and what our eyes see.
Re:Oculus Rift by gibsonje on Thursday June 11, 2015 @02:53PM (#9701545)
"The oculus will ship with...

A wireless....

Xbox one controller"

I closed out of the stream at that point.

Re:Oculus Rift by wavefunction on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:09PM (#9701645)
You might want to get that checked out.

Turn around and sell the Xbox controller on ebay if you feel the need, nothing says the two are wedded or the controller is required to use Oculus.

Re:Oculus Rift by benihana on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:24PM (#9701736)
It's not 1997; wireless controllers aren't shit and Microsoft makes good hardware and has some great software.
Re:Oculus Rift by gibsonje on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:28PM (#9701759)
Not sure why I'm getting downvoted and why you think I'm saying the controller is bad.

Oculus keeps spreading tons of hype and making very disappointing announcements.

A bundled xbox one controller is nothing to get excited over. Their supposed new input is, but they had virtually nothing to show for that.

Re:Oculus Rift by freehunter on Thursday June 11, 2015 @03:43PM (#9701848)
>Not sure why... you think I'm saying the controller is bad

Because it caused you to abandon the livestream literally at the very beginning.

Re:Oculus Rift by cloakandswagger on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:48PM (#9702313)
I for one agree with you. They punted on the controller in order to make the release, and their prototype controllers look underwhelming in comparison.

It feels like they've cut corners in an effort to beat Valve's VR platform to market.

Re:Oculus Rift by agildehaus on Thursday June 11, 2015 @07:34PM (#9703121)
Except they're not beating Valve to market. Vive should be released for the holiday season 2015 alongside the Steam Machines.

Rift won't be here until Q1 2016 (and their input solution later still).