News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by sjwright on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @05:52AM (#6558802)
A loophole used by Apple.

And Google, and Microsoft, and Adobe, and Facebook, and Oracle, and Pfizer, and Starbucks, and General Electric.

But Apple makes the headline. Normally this would be headline whoring by the predictable media, except that this is the BBC, and I thought Starbucks was made the whipping boy for tax evasion in the UK.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by riffraff on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:13AM (#6558846)
I _think_ the difference is google and microsoft are using a different loophole (double irish), which by the way wouldn't be closed by this change.

EDIT: to clarify: apple is playing with one subsidiary being resident "nowhere", whereas other companies have subsidiaries being resident in tax havens. The reform will forbid the former, not the latter.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by ra on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:19AM (#6558861)
So the headline should be, "Ireland to close Apple's tax loophole, but leave bigger one open"
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by glomph on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:55AM (#6558938)
That isn't usually how headlines work unless there is a stronger connection.

'Police catch one thief but leave all others on the street'

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by mcherm on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:24AM (#6559204)
More accurately: "Ireland will not close Apple's tax loophole; won't close the other one either.", since the article explains that all Apple needs to do is to declare it's Irish subsidiary to have a tax domicile of Bermuda (or anywhere else without corporate income tax) and Apple's current loophole remains intact.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by raverbashing on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @10:21AM (#6559779)
Exactly

There are ways this can be worked around (quite easily as pointed)

Nothing changes in practice

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by IanCal on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:48AM (#6558922)
The headline is accurate as it is.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by yapcguy on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @11:19AM (#6560123)
The new Apple slogan should be:

"Made in China. Designed in California. Taxed in Bermuda."

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by Ecio78 on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:24AM (#6559002)
That's why the Finance Minister's declarations are quite silly:

"Let me be crystal clear. Ireland wants to be part of the solution to this global tax challenge, not part of the problem," he said.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by mattmanser on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:50AM (#6559054)
It's actually quite genius as evidenced by other comments in this thread.

People now think the double Irish is closed when it isn't.

And when another country publicly condemns Ireland, the finance minister can say "we've already closed one, we're working on it!".

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by yetanotherphd on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @10:08AM (#6559700)
I think that is unfair. Ireland chose to have a low corporate tax rate, a decision that can be motivated by many considerations. While this does create a loophole where companies try to pay corporate tax in Ireland on profits that, without careful accounting, would usually be taxable in other countries, this does not mean Ireland is in the wrong. If he is speaking in good faith, then Ireland should want to keep its low corporate tax rate, but fix the accounting rules that allow profits to be shifted from one country to another so easily. These rules are not necessarily within Ireland's control (I'm not an expert in international taxation, though I find it fascinating).
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by yapcguy on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @11:18AM (#6560118)
This is what Google is doing.

$4.9 billion of sales occur in the UK, which is 10% of global revenue. However, only $29 million of corporation tax is payable to the UK - that's 0.3% - because Google lies and says that UK sales are actually Irish sales.

This deception occurs because basically 99.9% of the work is done in the UK, but the final signature on the sales contract is made in Ireland. This is from a Google whistleblower who was featured in the UK press.

Of course, the Irish subsidiary doesn't pay low corporate taxes on all this revenue, because it happens to have HUGE expenses in the form of intellectual property royalty payments, which need to be made to Google Bermuda (or whatever other tax haven they are using to hold the IP).

So really, Ireland is getting shafted too, just like the UK.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by vittore on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @09:33AM (#6559520)
I thought they use dutch sandwich EDITed oh, it is below - double irish with dutch sandwich. oh I like this name!
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by gillianseed on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:48AM (#6559335)
Well according to a dutch documentary I recently saw, Apple invented what was nick-named a 'double irish with a dutch sandwich' method of avoiding taxes by funneling profits through several different countries for their different tax laws.

Microsoft and Google and a ton of other huge corporations quickly followed suit so certainly they are just as much to blame, but I guess this loop-hole is attributed to Apple as they 'invented' it (but forgot to patent it, what gives!?).

As to the 'closing' of this loophole, allow me to chuckle. The insane amount of money these corporations can avoid in taxes due to these loopholes means that they will remain in one form or another.

Corporations are controlling governments these days, might aswell accept that the dystopian corporate controlled future of William Gibson is pretty much upon us.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by jmngomes on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @09:38AM (#6559541)
And closing this/any loophole would also lower Ireland's attractiveness as a European HQ for global companies, which could do more harm than good to Ireland's economy...
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by Jare on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @11:49AM (#6560314)
It may hurt in the short term, but it seems to me the value Ireland gains as a country from these companies is rather thin.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by Peroni on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:06AM (#6558827)
Apple is categorically the largest employer out of everyone on your list. They employ over 4,000 in Ireland alone and should this particular tax loophole impact that number, it would have a monumentally devastating long-term effect.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by madeofpalk on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:08AM (#6558830)
Not to mention Apple are the ones who 'pioneered' this 'Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich' scheme.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by ry0ohki on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:21AM (#6558990)
Not to nit, but General Electric has at least 4 times as many employees as Apple.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by darrhiggs on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:00AM (#6559086)
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by Peroni on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:30AM (#6559016)
Globally that may be true but Apple definitively employ more people in Ireland than GE.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by josefresco on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:46AM (#6559050)
But Apple makes the headline

If this was 1999 it would have been Microsoft. If this was 1960 it would have been GE.

Apple get's the headline because it's generating the most profits.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by twistedpair on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @11:40AM (#6560246)
Apple is in the headline because it got you to read the article. Same reason most media outlets publish articles about Apple, positive or negative.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by creativityland on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:11AM (#6558968)
The trend for anti-Apple posts here on HN frontpage seems to be growing. Yet we see positive news from Google almost everyday. Anyone else?
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by icebraining on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:53AM (#6559065)
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by freehunter on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @10:09AM (#6559707)
Trends like this come and go. 20 years ago, we would have seen growing anti-Microsoft posts, and 10 years ago we would be seeing positive news from Apple almost every day. Companies fall in and out of favor, and the trend will always reflect that.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by frank_boyd on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:10AM (#6559123)
I don't know about other people, but since Snowden's revelations about the companies that partner with the NSA, all of them are dead to me.

And that includes: Google, Apple, Microsoft, Skype, Yahoo, Paltalk, and the rest of them on these slides.

They are letting us down and we should treat them the exact same way.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by justincormack on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:20AM (#6558986)
Apple invented the double Irish Dutch sandwich, and were a pioneer in this space. As usual Google and Microsoft just copied the real pioneer!
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by chipaca on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:43AM (#6558910)
AIUI the other companies on your list are using a Dutch Sandwich, which is not plugged by this.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by loceng on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @11:02AM (#6560022)
Let's see if Apple or others cut back on supply to Ireland of products - because they can make more supplying more to other areas they don't have to support the local economies of..
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by zimpenfish on Thursday October 17, 2013 @05:20AM (#6564322)
Not to keep banging the same old drum but Starbucks weren't evading any tax at all - they were paying exactly what they were legally obliged to pay.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by DanBC on Thursday October 17, 2013 @05:35AM (#6564356)
Starbucks were paying what their accountants said they were legally obliged to pay.

But we don't know if that's actually what they're legally obliged to pay, because it's weird and borderline and hasn't been tested by courts.

Vodafone didn't think they were evading tax, but ended up making a deal with UK tax authorities to avoid court.

(http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/aug/18/vodafone-tax...)

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by rsynnott on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @07:35AM (#6559031)
In the UK, yes, but Starbucks doesn't do much tax avoidance in Ireland; Google, Microsoft and Apple are the big ones here.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by James_Duval on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:47AM (#6559329)
Typically, that would be Amazon, or the big banks. Starbucks is actually a new one on me.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by badman_ting on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @09:21AM (#6559459)
Yeah, I always notice that too and have long been tired of it. But ya know... Apple is roughly the biggest corporation in the world now. It kind of makes sense that they would be the focal point. Except that the "predictable media" as you put it have been doing this since long before Apple was so huge.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by DrJokepu on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:22AM (#6558875)
The BBC is known to be often critical of Apple. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by selectstar on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:35AM (#6558894)
If possible, please substantiate that?
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by IanCal on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @06:49AM (#6558924)
The BBC are, according to the complaints, biased for and against everyone. I see them as being pretty fair if everyone complains about them.
Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by gmac on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:29AM (#6559225)
Unfortunately that's pretty much the BBC's own definition of impartiality — as was articulated by its head of news a few years ago — and it's deeply flawed.

It means that issues or actors are given favourable coverage in proportion to their ability to muster or manufacture complaints. In important cases (e.g. around Israel/Palestine), this is not strongly related to the merits of the arguments.

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by IanCal on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @09:01AM (#6559380)
This is not the only definition, but it does help. If they get complaints that they are giving the Conservatives too much and too little airtime then it's a good indication that they're dealing with them reasonably.

> It means that issues or actors are given favourable coverage in proportion to their ability to muster or manufacture complaints.

Only if they use this to alter their output. It's more of a contrast to the other situation where you get lots of complaints on one side and none on the other, which suggests (but doesn't mean) you're treating things badly.

If they responded to just the complaints (rather than trying to think about how likely people are to complain/praise each side) then they'd never allow a gay kiss on screen (the responses are phenomenal when something like that happens).

Re:Ireland is to close a tax loophole used by Apple by northernmonkey on Wednesday October 16, 2013 @08:47AM (#6559327)
Is that a hunch or is there supporting evidence?