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Re:Leaving Mozilla by aboardRat4 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:11AM (#48515581)
IRC's UI is horrible. (Like email.)

No wonder people don't want to join it.

(Saying that as someome who has his own bouncer.)

Re:Leaving Mozilla by tjoff on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:26AM (#48515686)
It's not like you couldn't create an IRC-client with better UI than discord. Not as many features, but whatever strength discord has it is not UI.

Email really could have been great, but html and bad actors have made it so much worse than it needs to be.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by pmontra on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:07AM (#48516005)
Email is OK. The point is that most conversations moved to other media (mainly chats) and so 90% of my mail is notifications, 9% is newsletters, 1% are real messages. They used to be 99%.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by dariusj18 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:07AM (#48516484)
I really wish Google's Wave went somewhere. It was the real solution.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by esafak on Saturday June 13, 2026 @10:54AM (#48517939)
Which feature did you like most?
Re:Leaving Mozilla by em-bee on Saturday June 13, 2026 @12:04PM (#48518553)
try deltachat. it's essentially a chat client with all the features you would expect but using SMTP as the protocol.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by roenxi on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:27AM (#48516629)
I'd guess the important feature for Discord is it is easier for the administrators to get hosted and online, but "you could create a client with a better UI than discord" is a terrible line of argument. People could do lots of things in the OSS world and they don't. I can't recall any IRC client that I have found as easy to use as the Discord client except - ironically given the topic - ChatZilla which died off years ago because Mozilla decided that extensions were more of a 2000s technology than something they wanted to support.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by crote on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:29AM (#48516643)
In practice "better UI" would mean things like being able to trivially share files and images, or quote/link a specific message, or even making it easier to distinguish between users with similar nicks via their profile pictures. And those UI improvements are actually features which are integral to its protocol, so they can't easily be bolted on by a custom IRC client in a backwards-compatible way.

Literally every single modern chat platform has support for stuff like that, and for a reason. Discord became popular because it combined those modern chat features with the ability for every community to create its own private little "server" - while at the same time making it trivial to participate in multiple "servers" at once.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by hnlmorg on Saturday June 13, 2026 @09:45AM (#48517292)
Quoting/linking is a client feature, not a server one.

IRC servers do also support profiles.

I think the real “issue” with IRC is that its users generally prefer the minimal UI. So there isn’t an high enough demand to make prettier UIs. But there are web clients that are a little less basic.

For what it’s worth, I’m in that minimal camp too. I wish I could still connect Slack to IRC.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by amatecha on Saturday June 13, 2026 @10:14AM (#48517583)
indeed, there is https://www.irccloud.com which is quite excellent!
Re:Leaving Mozilla by aboardRat4 on Sunday June 14, 2026 @01:01AM (#48524334)
>It's not like you couldn't create an IRC-client with better UI than discord

No, you cannot. You cannot, because you need a team for this, and they need salaries, and unless you push ads into people's throats, there won't be any.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by ekianjo on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:19AM (#48515623)
UI? Its a protocol.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by setopt on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:24AM (#48515666)
They probably meant UX, which is arguably similar between implementations.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by 47282847 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:56AM (#48515907)
Like “the UX of HTTP is horrible”? Still doesn’t make any sense.

Discord could well run on top of IRC the protocol and be open to federation without any change of UX.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by oriolid on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:56AM (#48516396)
Netsplits, missed messages and bot wars over channel and nick ownership were an integral part of IRC UX, and they were direct consequences the IRC protocol. If Discord was run on top of IRC protocol, it would have the same. Discord would probably be its own network and the people who prefer IRCnet, EFnet or QuakeNet would never touch it.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by progval on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:41AM (#48516717)
> Netsplits

It's not inherent to the protocol. https://ergo.chat/ does not have netsplits (from having a single server) and https://github.com/Libera-Chat/sable replaces the server-to-server protocol to eliminate netsplits as well.

And even when not eliminated entirely, they are infrequent and barely visible on well-managed networks like Libera.Chat. Many chat platforms have more (and longer) outages than Libera has netsplits.

> missed messages

Solved by most server implementations using https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory

> bot wars over channel and nick ownership

Solved decades ago thanks to NickServ and ChanServ (though I'll admit they are ad-hoc additions on top of the protocol). And ~15 years ago we got native support for authentication (https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/sasl-3.1)

Re:Leaving Mozilla by oriolid on Saturday June 13, 2026 @09:36AM (#48517224)
So... Usually it's claimed that one of the advantages of IRC is that it doesn't depend on a single server, so using a single server feels a bit like cheating. Replacing the server-to-server protocol sounds a lot like it's not really IRC protocol any more. The chathistory link says "This specification may change at any time and we do not recommend implementing it in a production environment." right on top. And yes, NickServ and ChanServ exist on some networks and IIRC they were one of the major points in debates over which network is the best and which ones to not touch with a ten feet pole. A hypothetical IRC-based Discord-like service could have it.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by progval on Sunday June 14, 2026 @08:56AM (#48526786)
> Replacing the server-to-server protocol sounds a lot like it's not really IRC protocol any more

There hasn't been a standard server-to-server protocol in like three decades. Even RFC 2813 only specifies one of the protocols in use at the time (IRCnet's). Each implementation has its own (some of them forked from the original)

> The chathistory link says "This specification may change at any time and we do not recommend implementing it in a production environment."

True. Ratification of the final spec is stuck on some details, unfortunately.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by FireBeyond on Saturday June 13, 2026 @11:55AM (#48518469)
I mean the word "Relay" in Internet Relay Chat was meant to refer to relaying between servers. Larger networks even had some hub servers that didn't allow users to connect at all, and existed to be server interchanges.

IRCv3 missed the boat by years. By 2016, when the working group was formed, IRC was already well past its glory years. Even then, it took til the 2020s before any major network fully adopted it. Because - and I say this as a nerd who held an O line on two of those major networks at one point in my life - a bunch of nerds got hung up on arguing about implementation specs rather than looking at features and functionality organically. Ironically, in the quest to avoid becoming a closed Discord/Slack/what-have-you ecosystem product, they needed a product manager to remind them that what they needed to build in that working group was an evolution to IRCv2, not endless arguments over the format of configuration files for server daemons, for but one example.

> And ~15 years ago we got native support for authentication (https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/sasl-3.1)

The IRCv3 WG was convened near the end of 2016, so 9 or so.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by 47282847 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @12:48PM (#48518996)
> IRCv3 missed the boat by years

Because people invested/wasted their energy into building proprietary silos instead.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by oriolid on Saturday June 13, 2026 @05:57PM (#48521896)
Like Matrix (the one at https://matrix.org)?
Re:Leaving Mozilla by 47282847 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:55PM (#48522703)
The Working Group on IRCv3 started in 2011. Matrix in 2015.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by oriolid on Sunday June 14, 2026 @03:56AM (#48525148)
Does it make Matrix "proprietary" or "silo"? Did the IRCv3 WG have any results in 2015?
Re:Leaving Mozilla by progval on Sunday June 14, 2026 @08:59AM (#48526815)
> The IRCv3 WG was convened near the end of 2016, so 9 or so.

SASL support in IRC predates IRCv3.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by luke5441 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:03AM (#48515972)
IRC doesn't have offline messages and standardized user accounts.

Just looked it up and there is IRCv3 to fix this, but idk what the state of that is.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by FireBeyond on Saturday June 13, 2026 @11:59AM (#48518512)
"... not great".

IRCv3 was already late to the party and when I saw that the Working Group's mailing list was composed of lots of debates on formats for server daemon configuration files, it was clear many couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by coldtea on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:51AM (#48516337)
>Like “the UX of HTTP is horrible”? Still doesn’t make any sense

Sure it does, when all browsers have more or less the same, and the context makes clear we're not talking about the mere programmatic consumption of HTTP (like through some REST api).

"But it's a protocol and not a client" is pedantically irrelevant, given that the clients for that protocol all follow the same conventions. The parent already said they meant the UX of it "which is arguably similar between implementations".

Besides, protocols impose some concepts and models of interaction and consumption, which informs any UX created on top of them. So it's not like that client sameness is merely accidental and unrelated to the protocol either.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by ciroduran on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:08AM (#48516006)
It hasn't been the same since Comic Chat was discontinued
Re:Leaving Mozilla by joeypickles on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:44AM (#48516284)
I wish there was an article on the oral history of comic chat.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by code_biologist on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:03AM (#48515965)
What? I just want to share cat pics, video clips, and memes with my friends and respond to their stuff with not-inline emojis.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by loloquwowndueo on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:56AM (#48515903)
Dunno man, it’s miles better than discord which bombards me with ads every single time I log in.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by AlienRobot on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:30AM (#48515712)
It's been a while since I last used IRC, but afaik one of the issues with it was that servers revealed the IP address of users to every other user by default. Since the IP is geographic that's one piece of information you could use to doxx someone.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by netsharc on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:45AM (#48515824)
It'd be trivial (TM) for someone to make a web interface, and the connections would say "Connecting from some-data-center.aws-cloud.bl"...
Re:Leaving Mozilla by bitbasher on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:27AM (#48516142)
Libera gives all registered users a cloak to hide their ip.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by dollylambda on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:56AM (#48515905)
There are many ways to mask your "real" ip address, VPN being an easy start.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by crote on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:00AM (#48516427)
The fact that this is needed at all is a serious problem. Making people who aren't aware of some obscure details accidentally doxx themselves is incredibly user-hostile.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by gordonfish on Saturday June 13, 2026 @09:58AM (#48517410)
IP addresses aren't linked to a complete street address, and many times don't even show the right town, especially those on CG-NAT or a plain ol' direct public dynamic address. I have seen some IPs, like on AT&T and Comcast home Internet, showing a different state.

So in many cases, you don't need a VPN to prevent revealing your actual geographic location.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by esseph on Saturday June 13, 2026 @12:44PM (#48518961)
And some IPs stick to users for over a decade, and over time the data pieces add up and connect the dots.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by gsich on Saturday June 13, 2026 @06:39AM (#48515787)
It's a skill check.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by crote on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:01AM (#48516438)
It's gatekeeping. Don't be surprised when your pet project slowly dies because potential new contributors choose to join less hostile communities instead.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by gsich on Saturday June 13, 2026 @09:08PM (#48523186)
Gatekeeping is not always bad.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by aboardRat4 on Monday June 15, 2026 @08:41AM (#48540408)
Gatekeeping is only good when there are no easier options.

When IRC is the only instant messaging system, and it has an entry barrier, clever people will pass this barrier, and stupid people will not.

But when there are easier alternatives, clever people won't bother.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by qweqwe14 on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:05AM (#48516469)
You sound so unemployed it's not even funny.

Get a job.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by Gud on Saturday June 13, 2026 @07:21AM (#48516100)
What’s wrong with IRCs UI?
Re:Leaving Mozilla by prmoustache on Saturday June 13, 2026 @08:42AM (#48516724)
I am puzzled by this comment. IRC is a protocol, it is not a software and doesn't have an UI. IRC clients do, and they aren't all the same.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by aboardRat4 on Sunday June 14, 2026 @12:59AM (#48524322)
Lol. You must be from the "wayland is just a protocol" bunch.

UI(IRC) = MIN_{c \in clients : #user(c) > 100 } UI(c)

But even if you take "max" and not "min", it's still horrible.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by yason on Saturday June 13, 2026 @10:26AM (#48517670)
> IRC's UI is horrible. (Like email.) No wonder people don't want to join it.

I consider it a feature that acts as a filter.

Re:Leaving Mozilla by Natfan on Saturday June 13, 2026 @01:51PM (#48519661)
if you consider a high bar for entry to be a good thing, don't be surprised when your community dies
Re:Leaving Mozilla by account42 on Monday June 15, 2026 @07:50AM (#48539942)
Eternal september has shown that the opposite is even more of a problem.
Re:Leaving Mozilla by bachmeier on Saturday June 13, 2026 @10:33AM (#48517736)
The entire reason Mozilla came into being is to do things like improve the user experience for IRC so we can keep the internet open. There has never been any other reason for Mozilla as an organization to exist.