News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @07:04AM (#45548174)
Beyond the PS6, the answer is very clearly graphics generated in real time via a transformer model.

I’d be absolutely shocked if in 10 years, all AAA games aren’t being rendered by a transformer. Google’s veo 3 is already extremely impressive. No way games will be rendered through traditional shaders in 2035.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by wartywhoa23 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:18AM (#45548584)
The future of gaming is the Grid-Independent Post-Silicon Chemo-Neural Convergence, the user will be injected with drugs designed by AI based on a loose prompt (AI generated as well, because humans have long lost the ability to formulate their intent) of the gameplay trip they must induce.

Now that will be peak power efficiency and a real solution for the world where all electricity and silicon are hogged by AI farms.

/s or not, you decide.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by jayd16 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @12:05PM (#45550196)
It's all about nerual spores

https://youtu.be/NyvD_IC9QNw

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by pavlov on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:49AM (#45548760)
Stanislaw Lem’s “The Futurological Congress” predicted this in 1971.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by wartywhoa23 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:10AM (#45548881)
FYI it's got an amazing film adaptation by Ari Folman in his 2013 "The Congress". The most emotionally striking film I've ever watched.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by speed_spread on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:53AM (#45548786)
There will be a war between these biogamers and smart consoles that can play themselves.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by fidotron on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:04AM (#45548498)
Transformer maybe not, but neural net yes. This is profoundly uncomfortable for a lot of people, but it's the very clear direction.

The other major success of recent years not discussed much so far is gaussian splats, which tear up the established production pipeline again.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:44AM (#45549098)
Neural net is already being used via DLSS. Neural rendering is the next step. And finally, a full transformer based rendering pipeline. My guess anyway.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by meindnoch on Saturday October 11, 2025 @07:35AM (#45548325)
How much money are you willing to bet?
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:03AM (#45548486)
All my money.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by CuriouslyC on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:57AM (#45549200)
Even in a future with generative UIs, those UIs will be composed from pre-created primitives just because it's faster and more consistent, there's literally no reason to re-create primitives every time.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by bigyabai on Saturday October 11, 2025 @11:19AM (#45549839)
Go short Nintendo and Sony today. I'm the last one who's going to let my technical acumen get in the way of your mistake.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @03:56PM (#45552173)
Why would gaming rendering using transformers lead to one shorting Nintendo and Sony?
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by lm28469 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:03AM (#45548491)
Is this before or after fully autonomous cars and agi? Both should be there in two years right?

10 years ago people were predicting VR would be everywhere, it flopped hard.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:10AM (#45548532)
I've been riding Waymo for years in San Francisco.

10 years ago, people were predicting that deep learning will change everything. And it did.

Why just use one example (VR) and apply it to everything? Even then, a good portion of people did not think VR would be everywhere by now.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by Fade_Dance on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:21AM (#45548599)
Baidu Apollo Go is conpletes millions of rides a year as well, with expansions into Europe in the Middle East. In China they've been active for a long time - during COVID they were making autonomous deliveries.

It is odd how many people don't realize how developed self-driving taxis are.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by oblio on Saturday October 11, 2025 @10:24AM (#45549393)
The future isn't evenly distributed.

I think most people will consider self driving tech to be a thing when it's as widespread as TVs were, 20 years after their introduction.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by ksec on Sunday October 12, 2025 @11:20AM (#45558817)
TV tech was ready, it just wasn't cheap enough. Self Driving is not wide spread not because of cost issue though. It is still not quite good enough for universal usage. Give it another 10 years I think we should be close, especially in places like Japan.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by SecretDreams on Saturday October 11, 2025 @10:01AM (#45549235)
> I've been riding Waymo for years in San Francisco.

Fully autonomous in select defined cities owned by big corps is probably a reasonable expectation.

Fully autonomous in the hands of an owner applied to all driving conditions and working reliably is likely still a distant goal.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by raw_anon_1111 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @04:49PM (#45552558)
And outside of a few major cities with relatively good weather, self driving is non existent
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by wartywhoa23 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:32AM (#45548664)
It did flop, but still a hefty loaf of money was sliced off in the process.

Those with the real vested interest don't care if that flops, while zealous worshippers to the next brand new disruptive tech are just a free vehicle to that end.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by kranke155 on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:59AM (#45549218)
VR is great industrial tech and bad consumer tech. It’s too isolating for consumers.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by Certhas on Saturday October 11, 2025 @07:35AM (#45548323)
This _might_ be true, but it's utterly absurd to claim this is a certainty.

The images rendered in a game need to accurately represent a very complex world state. Do we have any examples of Transformer based models doing something in this category? Can they do it in real-time?

I could absolutely see something like rendering a simplified and stylised version and getting Transformers to fill in details. That's kind of a direct evolution from the upscaling approach described here, but end to end rendering from game state is far less obvious.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by kgdiem on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:16AM (#45548568)
Doesn’t this imply that a transformer or NN could fill in details more efficiently than traditional techniques?

I’m really curious why this would be preferable for a AAA studio game outside of potential cost savings. Also imagine it’d come at the cost of deterministic output / consistency in visuals.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:06AM (#45548511)

  I could absolutely see something like rendering a simplified and stylised version and getting Transformers to fill in details. That's kind of a direct evolution from the upscaling approach described here, but end to end rendering from game state is far less obvious.
Sure. This could be a variation. You do a quick render that any GPU from 2025 can do and then make the frame hyper realistic through a transformer model. It's basically saying the same thing.

The main rendering would be done by the transformer.

Already in 2025, Google Veo 3 is generating pixels far more realistic than AAA games. I don't see why this wouldn't be the default rendering mode for AAA games in 2035. It's insanity to think it won't be.

Veo3: https://aistudio.google.com/models/veo-3

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by jsheard on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:28AM (#45548647)
> Already in 2025, Google Veo 3 is generating pixels far more realistic than AAA games.

Traditional rendering techniques can also easily exceed the quality of AAA games if you don't impose strict time or latency constraints on them. Wake me up when a version of Veo is generating HD frames in less than 16 milliseconds, on consumer hardware, without batching, and then we can talk about whether that inevitably much smaller model is good enough to be a competitive game renderer.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by Certhas on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:37AM (#45548699)
Well you missed the point. You could call it prompt adherence. I need veo to generate the next frame in a few milliseconds, and correctly represent the position of all the cars in the scene (reacting to player input) reliably to very high accuracy.

You conflate the challenge of generating realistic pixels with the challenge of generating realistic pixels that represent a highly detailed world state.

So I don't think your argument is convincing or complete.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by LtdJorge on Saturday October 11, 2025 @08:55AM (#45548803)
> Google Veo 3 is generating pixels far more realistic than AAA games

That’s because games are "realtime", meaning with a tight frame-time budget. AI models are not (and are even running on multiple cards each costing 6 figures).

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @03:58PM (#45552186)
I mistaken veo3 for Genie model. Genie is the Google model I should have referenced. It is real time.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by FridgeSeal on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:02PM (#45554184)
I look forward to playing games where the map and scenery geometry just mutates as I move around, and can’t complete levels or objectives because the model forgot about their existence while it was adding a door midair at 0.25 fps.

I’m so excited to be charged AAA prices for said wonderful experience.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by LtdJorge on Friday October 17, 2025 @04:17PM (#45621537)
That already exists for Minecraft
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by ksec on Saturday October 11, 2025 @10:17PM (#45554566)
Genie 3 is still currently low quality, low resolution and not anywhere near current AAA graphics, while requiring hardware that exceed current AAA Graphics requirements.

For Genie to exceed AAA Graphics in 2035 at 60 to 120fps per second would require a breakthrough of efficiency that is at least an order of magnitude, and much higher for it to be cost effective.

The gaming industry for AAA titles requires at least 3-4 years in making. Which means AAA titles studios would need to start working on it in 2031. Possibility of All AAA games in 2031 are made with LLM model is practically zero.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @11:09PM (#45554832)
The point is that we can generate ultra realistic graphics.

We are talking 10 years from now.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by ksec on Saturday October 11, 2025 @11:56PM (#45555080)
We can already do that today given sufficient computing resources with current AI, doing it real time is different. And I thought you mentioned earlier that all AAA games will be using it by 2035?

And unfortunately 10 years isn't that long time in many industries. We are barely talking about 3 cycles.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Sunday October 12, 2025 @03:07AM (#45555969)
Genie is real time.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by mdale on Saturday October 11, 2025 @10:53AM (#45549617)
Genie 3 is already a frontier approach to interactive generative world views no?

It will be AI all the way down soon. The models internal world view could be multiple passes and multi layer with different strategies... In any case; safe to say more AI will be involved in more places ;)

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by Certhas on Saturday October 11, 2025 @03:45PM (#45552076)
I am super intrigued by such world models. But at the same time it's important to understand where they are at. They are celebrating the achievement of keeping the world mostly consistent for 60 seconds, and this is 720p at 24fps.

I think it's reasonable to assume we won't see this tech replace game engines without significant further breakthroughs...

For LLMs agentic workflows ended up being a big breakthrough to make them usable. Maybe these World Models will interact with a sort of game engine directly somehow to get the required consistency. But it's not evident that you can just scale your way from "visual memory extending up to one minute ago" to 70+ hour game experiences.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @11:16PM (#45554879)
For future readers, yes. It’s Google Genie.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by MarCylinder on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:25AM (#45548954)
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it is clearly the answer. Is a transformer model truly likely to require less compute than current methods? We can't even run models like Veo 3 on consumer hardware at their current level of quality.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @11:13PM (#45554854)
I’d imagine AAA games will evolve to hundreds of billions of polygons and full path tracing. There is no realistic way to compute a scene like that on consumer hardware.

The answer is clearly transformer based.

Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by CuriouslyC on Saturday October 11, 2025 @09:56AM (#45549188)
That's just not efficient. AAA games will use AI to pre-render assets, and use AI shaders to make stuff pop more, but on the fly asset generation will still be slow and produce low quality compared to offline asset generation. We might have a ShadCN style asset library that people use AI to tweak to produce "realtime" assets, but there will always be an offline core of templates at the very least.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Saturday October 11, 2025 @11:11PM (#45554842)
It is likely a hell of a lot more efficient than path tracing a full ultra realistic game with billions of polygons.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by KeplerBoy on Saturday October 11, 2025 @10:43AM (#45549536)
Be prepared to be shocked. This industry moves extremely slow.
Re:AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current gr... by aurareturn on Sunday October 12, 2025 @10:02AM (#45558286)
They'll have to move fast when a small team can make graphically richer game than a big and slow AAA studio.

Competition works wonders.