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Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:15PM (#45522396)
I'm Michael and this was about me. This person never reached out for comment and is missing half the story. I'm happy to fill people in on the rest if this person or someone else wants to hear.

I agree with one or two of the characterizations but the majority I don't and there is a lot more to this story than it seems...

RE: INDUSTRY. Rithm School (their main competitor) shut down. Hack Reactor is down to single digit cohorts allegedly. Launch School is slowing down from 3 cohorts a year to 2. Numerous other bootcamps have shut down. Codesmith's decline is predominantly an industry problem.

RE: CODESMITH. For starters as an example, Codesmith's website, email, and entire AWS account was down for 3 weeks because they got locked out from not updating their credit card and then losing the root password and their 2-factor was a phone number. This is unacceptable.

Yet they market themselves as similar outcomes to elite grad schools and it's very reasonable to challenge them on their hyperbolic marketing.

Both sides of the story need to be heard before making a judgement.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by fny on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:41PM (#45522560)
If you really cared, this should have started with: "I am stepping down as the moderator..."

Even though you have counter claims, you moderating the forum for your industry is problematic. You also seem keen to chime in about a competitor when you should be impartial and allow users to discuss their experiences alone.

Yes there are two sides to every story, but in no universe should you be the mod of that subreddit.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:19AM (#45523452)
This is not my industry, no. Had the author reached out for comment they could publish my claims. More interested in a hit piece than the truth.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by 4bpp on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:49AM (#45523632)
Even if we accept all your claims at face value, your behaviour in your capacity as the moderator of that subreddit was still immoral. However you feel about it, being a moderator is a voluntary responsibility which comes with an expectation of impartiality and service at the expense of, not in furtherance of, your personal goals.

At best, if everything you say is true, what you are doing is akin to proudly volunteering as a firefighter so that you can slow-walk the response if a fire is ever reported at the NXIVM HQ. Your crusade against NXIVM may be righteous, and it might even be universally considered a net good if its HQ were to burn down, but it would still raise a lot of eyebrows if it came out that you intended to use your position in that fashion.

edit: To be clear, I sympathise with your claim that you are being subjected to a one-sided hit, and am starting to feel uneasy with the dogpiling atmosphere that is building in this subthread. However, it is understandable to me why this is happening - fundamentally, Reddit has become a town square that is really not engineered correctly to be one. In a town square, people want to choose their leaders, but subreddits are by design "storefronts", in which leaders (moderators) choose their people. This tension is resolved by a very unpleasant jerry-rigged substitute for democratic control: the one way you can "vote out" a moderator (who has the backing or indifference of everyone above him) is to apply psychological pressure, or other harm (such as the reputational damage your company is no doubt taking as we speak), until they crack and resign. This is sort of democratic because larger fractions of the "electorate" can achieve it more easily, but even turning up to such a "vote" that you ultimately lose entails social violence.

It doesn't seem like you are willing to resign, nor to put your moderator status up for a community vote (if that could even be made fair, after you presumably banned a lot of would-be voters, and conversely could accuse the other side of botting/brigading). What other options do those who do not want the town square to be moderated by you have?

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by collingreen on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:37AM (#45523926)
To be clear I agree with a lot of what you wrote here so this is just a small nit:

> What other options do those who do not want the town square to be moderated by you have?

Start and visit a new subreddit. This is an important bit that gets covered up by metaphors like "landed gentry" and "peasants". Don't like it? Vote with your digital feet. It doesn't come with any of the baggage and complication that an equivalent real life move would have. Just stop going there and go somewhere else. Yes it would be nice if folks were awesome and tried to be awesome. The reality is they aren't and subreddits are property owned by the mods. Luckily, you don't have to be there.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by kameit00 on Thursday October 09, 2025 @02:30AM (#45524228)
Your own words:

>> I'm the co-founder of an interview prep mentorship platform [...] my company's services so there is a small amount of overlap on the most experienced end of Codesmith and the least experienced end of Formation. <<

https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/ana...

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @08:57AM (#45527052)
A "hit piece" can be the truth and that one is.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by oeirugjoiwejo on Thursday October 09, 2025 @08:59AM (#45527084)
Do you deny that you work for the competitor? If you don't deny that, then it IS your industry.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @02:41PM (#45531464)
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by malfist on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:17PM (#45522792)
> RE: CODESMITH. For starters as an example, Codesmith's website, email, and entire AWS account was down for 3 weeks because they got locked out from not updating their credit card and then losing the root password and their 2-factor was a phone number. This is unacceptable.

Everything I can find online, including your post on reddit about the outage, says the outage was for 4 days. Not 3 weeks.

I'll also note that your post on reddit about the outage was phrased as if you were a student impacted by the outage, going so far as to say it was your "final straw" even though you don't have skin in the game other than as a competitor.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:52PM (#45522994)
It was 3 weeks.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by ryanmerket on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:37AM (#45523556)
do you think maybe they could have kept it up if they didn't layoff 80% of their staff because of your modding? reddit is essentially google results at this point, don't act coy.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:42AM (#45523581)
That's not correct. Their closest competitor entirely shut down for example, and the industry is the main factor responsible for their decline.

They laid off their Future Code (a completely funded program by the city of NY) overnight with no warning - some of the most dedicated staff.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by malfist on Thursday October 09, 2025 @10:03AM (#45527865)
Friend, take a look at how you're phrasing things. If we boil down your statement to just the facts we see:

* Industry wide layoffs are happening.

* This company had a layoff.

* This company did not tell their workers they were being laid off in advance.

But that's not how you phrased it. You dismissed concerns about your biases by saying there are industry wide layoffs, and then in the exact next sentence castigated codesmith for having a layoff. Those statements don't align, that everyone is having layoffs and it's no big deal, and codesmith is having layoffs and it's a big deal.

Futher you add charged language about no notice, which is perfectly standard, and an assertion you can't possibly know, about codesmith having "the most dedicated staff". That's just not something you have context to state and its only purpose is to inflame and paint the worst possible picture.

In the words of Ron Swanson: Son, people can see you

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by mda on Thursday October 09, 2025 @10:05AM (#45527902)
So you don't accept any responsibility in their downfall?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @11:10AM (#45528798)
the fact that you’re so entitled as to describe and assess their staff like you’re an insider who actually works there. That’s crazy. and creepy AF
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:54PM (#45532281)
They keep their staff list up to date on their website fairly frequently. I'm going off that.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Ekaros on Thursday October 09, 2025 @04:36AM (#45525066)
If their entire marketing strategy is Reddit. They deserve to die. They are failed company. If they were really good they would not need to astroturf reddit. Their students would be their best promoters and they would have line out of the door.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @08:59AM (#45527080)
Nothing you said here is true or informed, starting with the first sentence, which gets things totally backwards.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Perz1val on Thursday October 09, 2025 @07:17AM (#45526102)
No
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:00AM (#45527098)
You provide no evidence and fail to respond to the criticism at the end ... which is bad behavior, among a great deal of other bad behavior.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by simianwords on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:22PM (#45522821)
I would really like to hear both sides to the story. But from the data it seems like you have been obsessively commenting on the subreddit about codesmith for more than a full year. And almost 80% have been negative. This looks unhinged because you are a moderator of the subreddit. What's the other side to this?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:10AM (#45523394)
I was being threatened by anonymous Reddit accounts a few weeks ago so I made some defensive PR docs but I need to sleep on it to decide what to do.

This is what I do all day: https://github.com/mnovati

But yeah two sides to every story and if this has been going on for years, "1000 posts", there's clearly more to the story, and it's irresponsible to not reach out for comment if you are going to try to summarize that.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by malfist on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:41AM (#45523578)
Is that what you do all day? Its trivially easy to make a profile look like yours, its a lot harder to actually have an average of 28 commits a day every day for a year with zero days off. Not for weekends, not for vacations, not for sickness. All in completely private repositories
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by zeroonetwothree on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:22AM (#45523822)
Based on my experience working with Novati (a long time ago) that level of output is par for the course. So I would take it at face value.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:47AM (#45523618)
It's real code.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by collingreen on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:39AM (#45523942)
Well that proves it!
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by weeznerps on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:40PM (#45530066)
The archetype of "Coding Machine" for senior staff engineers at FB was created because of this guy: https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/the-coding-machin...

I have one of these types on my team and the level of productivity is shocking.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by qingcharles on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:45AM (#45523977)
A github with no public work isn't really a flex.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by simianwords on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:00AM (#45524434)
I just don’t see how a GitHub link is supposed to answer the question. We all have day jobs too.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday October 09, 2025 @05:06AM (#45525250)
> This is what I do all day: https://github.com/mnovati

You showed me yours, I'll show you mine[0]. It’s all organic. A pretty significant part of that is open-source, or source-available, so it’s easy to verify. I think I may only have two or three private repos (but one of them is where I do a lot of work).

I’m retired, and work on code all day, most days. I’m just a wee bit obsessive, being “on the spectrum.” I average about 1,900 checkins per year. Some of the days that I do the most work, have 1 or zero checkins. I will sometimes shitcan a whole day’s worth of work, if I find myself in a rabbithole.

Here’s a fun GitHub tool[1].

I have no opinion on the article, or the responses, other than there’s a lot of ugly going on, and it isn’t really making my life any richer, reading it.

[0] https://github.com/ChrisMarshallNY#github-stuff

[1] https://github.com/gelstudios/gitfiti

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by stuaxo on Thursday October 09, 2025 @06:42AM (#45525844)
What does showing your github do with writing about writing negative posts about a company almost every single day ?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by burnerRhodov2 on Thursday October 09, 2025 @11:17AM (#45528897)
I could tell that all your code would be in private repo's before i even opened it. Zero open source contributions, and probably pushing comments so he can get a green every day.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @11:05AM (#45528734)
i heard this has actually been going on for 3 years
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by baubino on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:44PM (#45522578)
You’re doing the same thing here that the article is accusing you of doing on Reddit.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by whatever1 on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:33PM (#45523213)
Oh you are gonna taste your own medicine here. Welcome.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by bapak on Thursday October 09, 2025 @06:05AM (#45525628)
He's not losing millions of dollars by being here. A taste of his own medicine should be given in court.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by rvitorper on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:19PM (#45522419)
You don’t know when to stop, do you?
[dead]
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by sunshowers on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:00PM (#45523041)
Hi Michael. We overlapped significantly at Facebook and chatted a few times (I was on the source control team from 2012-2018ish, part of which was the migration to Mercurial). Correct me if I'm wrong, but you wrote some posts about how you wanted something like git rebase -i, right?

I know your heart is in the right place, and have a great deal of respect for you. I think being the most active moderator of a coding bootcamp subreddit while also running one is probably not the best use of your time, right? Even though I know you're being honest, just the appearance of a conflict of interest can be an issue. Why not find someone else to take over the reins, someone who isn't actively involved in the industry?

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:13AM (#45523414)
Hi. I don't run a bootcamp. I recommended people go to Codesmith too and there's a lot more to this story. It's missing half the context.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by ryanmerket on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:44AM (#45523591)
Bud, your LinkedIn of you and your wife say you are founders of a bootcamp.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:44AM (#45524730)
Where does it say that?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by exogeny on Thursday October 09, 2025 @10:59PM (#45535028)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43758527

You literally say it yourself!

Christ, man. Stop digging. You fucked up, stop moderating, and move on.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by oeirugjoiwejo on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:03AM (#45527125)
His github shows it as place of work.

Also from his HN comment history:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43758527

> Hi, I'm the co-founder of Formation

Oops.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:11AM (#45527228)
> Critics shouldn't be silenced

a) non sequitur

b) Then you're good with the massive amount of criticism you're receiving.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by rvitorper on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:52PM (#45522623)
One thing is a critic based on verifiable facts. Another thing is defending yourself. A third one is coming up with bad things nobody can verify. Your post mixes these things
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:15AM (#45523426)
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by baobun on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:54AM (#45524026)
This is some fourth thing...

What does anything there have to do with any of the questions people in this thread are asking you?

I don't see anything there that adds anything to the story except solidifying the picture of you as an obsessive stalker. It certainly doesn't help your case.

In case I overlooked some key detail, please point it out.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by user_7832 on Thursday October 09, 2025 @02:18AM (#45524156)
I haven't verified the numbers, but I'll take them as correct for now. I can understand wanting to make such an analysis if you had skin in the game, and cautioning people, if you were a student who was disappointed or similar.

However by your own admission you're a co founder of a "interview prep mentorship platform" (which you claim is not a bootcamp) - fine, I can admit they are slightly different - though this does feel like splitting hairs semantically.

What I don't understand is, how is your position as a mod on such a subreddit not a massive conflict of interest? You have no reason to dissuade people from another company unless it hurts your business (I'm guessing you or someone in your family didn't lose time or money on codesmith).

Ergo, if you can, please do tell me why your activity isn't financially motivated, and therefore tortious interference. I see no other reason for a person to obsessively track another company in detail (baring a few health conditions I wouldn't want to wish on anyone.)

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by cap11235 on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:16PM (#45523123)
Dramatic much?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by 4bpp on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:52PM (#45523307)
Your post does not really do much to dispel the negative picture that the opening article paints of you. You say their decline is "predominantly an industry problem". Is this also the case for your own company, Formation? You went on the record comparing Codesmith to a sex cult and accusing it of deceiving and exploiting its students and evidently consider criticising them to be a mission worth years of near-daily dedication, and the only example you have to offer to justify this in a thread where people question your motives for this is... some random anecdote about them having an IT fuckup?

This doesn't read as if you have a coherent case that Codesmith is bad to an extent that justifies your single-minded effort to spread this message, but as either an attempt to throw more FUD at the wall in the hope that something sticks even in this forum, or an indication that you are not quite well.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:22AM (#45523473)
I compared the statement 'do this because it changed my life and the life of many others' to the type of language used in cult documentaries on HBO. I stand by that opinion.

Codesmith is not a sex cult. I can't believe I'm writing that sentence.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by 4bpp on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:36AM (#45523551)
There were any number of less pejorative comparisons you could have made if that was all you wanted to say. I regularly see grandiose claims of life-changing benefits on everything ranging from mildly pointless and overpriced meditation retreats down to Toastmasters, and yet you chose the one entity whose main claim to publicity were things that got its leader-guru sentenced to 120 years in a max security prison.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by crummy on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:29AM (#45523510)
> I compared the statement 'do this because it changed my life and the life of many others' to the type of language used in cult documentaries on HBO

why did you make that comparison?

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:43AM (#45523589)
[flagged]
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by tomhow on Thursday October 09, 2025 @02:46AM (#45524345)
It's fine to participate in the thread and present your version of events, but we need you to observe the guidelines, which ask us to avoid fulmination and using capitalisation for emphasis.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:45AM (#45524741)
Thanks for letting me know that, I didn't know
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by sesm on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:39AM (#45523940)
What happened in 2024 that changed your mind?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:48AM (#45524762)
This: https://web.archive.org/web/20240418095904/https://www.codes...

I paused my recommendation to wait to see if they did what they said they would do. In my opinion they did not, so I then removed my recommendation.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by malfist on Thursday October 09, 2025 @04:55PM (#45532985)
Wait, so you went on a year plus long, single person crusade against a company because.....they offered remote learning options?

That's the straw that broke the camels back? What a weird thing to decide to destroy a company over.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by brushfoot on Thursday October 09, 2025 @07:58AM (#45526412)
> Codesmith is not a sex cult. I can't believe I'm writing that sentence.

You wouldn't have needed to write that sentence had you not flippantly compared Codesmith to a sex cult in a public forum -- so flippantly that you couldn't even be bothered to spell the cult's name correctly, as if your words carried no weight.

Words do carry weight, and online discourse matters. And your refusal to acknowledge that in your comments here would be incredible if it weren't predictable given your pattern of behavior as outlined by the article and confirmed by a few simple Google searches.

You're even blatantly lying in this very thread that you aren't in the same industry as Codesmith. It would be remarkable except that we've seen the same behavior time and again from founders who think pattern recognition and basic verbal competence relieves them of the need for integrity.

All I can say is that I was in doubt after reading the article, but after reading your responses here, I have a negative view of both you and your company.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:08AM (#45527192)
> I compared the statement 'do this because it changed my life and the life of many others' to the type of language used in cult documentaries on HBO. I stand by that opinion.

This is ludicrous ... it's also the type of language used by all sorts of people in all sorts of situations. Mentioning a cult is the least charitable thing that can be said.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by bakugo on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:39PM (#45522931)
> Both sides of the story need to be heard before making a judgement.

Your side begins and ends at being a reddit moderator for an industry subreddit while working in said industry as a CTO. Anything you say or do in this position should rightfully be assumed to be biased.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by chews on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:21PM (#45522431)
Do they though? Being a reddit mod for a sub that covers an industry you have a vested interest in with no other mods with similar backgrounds really does sound like a well traffic'd and successful bully pulpit.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:35PM (#45522520)
My company works with a lot of bootcamp grads later on in their careers so wouldn't I have an interest in promoting bootcamps so more people go and create more customers down the road?

I recommended a bunch of people go to Codesmith until February 2024, when the first signs of collapsed started.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by saxelsen on Friday October 10, 2025 @05:13AM (#45536762)
A person with integrity would have promoted bootcamps and recused themselves from smearing competitors.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by SilverElfin on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:42PM (#45522950)
Are you planning to write something up about it? It would be interesting to hear the other side that you’re hinting at.

It’s also not clear to me if the person who wrote this article was paid for it or if they’re somehow affiliated with someone involved. It says they’re a “Fractional VP of Content”. I’m curious if you know more.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:53PM (#45523005)
I might. I have hordes of documents. It's a really sad situation and very sad that he characterized this this way without even talking to me whatsoever.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by GenerWork on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:04PM (#45523056)
I believe the phrase that applies here is "put up or shut up". If you have hordes of documents to draw on as primary sources, then it should be pretty simple (but perhaps time consuming) to write a rebuttal.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by cap11235 on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:17PM (#45523130)
I have the concept of a plan. /s
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:23AM (#45523478)
[flagged]
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by malfist on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:45AM (#45523607)
I don't see any links to those hordes of documents in this response. Could you please provide some, like you claim to have?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by anon7000 on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:53AM (#45524017)
Is it a hit piece? It’s well argued and comes with sources, which is more than you’ve offered.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:46AM (#45524749)
I commented on the moderation piece first and not the rest yet: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fi...
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:36AM (#45523920)
just gonna guess here. Were you “invited” because you had signed up with Codesmith under an alias and then received a standard event invite? because it doesn’t sound like anyone at Codesmith would be personally inviting you.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:46AM (#45524744)
Yeah by Eric Kirsten via Email
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @07:33PM (#45534111)
show it
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by kjs3 on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:31AM (#45523522)
I have hordes of documents.

Funny enough, one of my attorneys taught me a lesson a long time ago around this. Simplified, she said "only and idiot claims to have lots of documents" to support their action. Sure, it's the easy/lazy way to try and intimidate people with the lowest amount of knowledge about how things work. But anyone with the slightest clue knows 1) talk is cheap, 2) you don't need a lot of docs, you just need the one that matters, and 3) if you claim to have documents, you'll eventually have to produce them, and if you can't, you look like an idiot.

Maybe put another way...don't let your mouth write checks your body can't cash.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by benjiro on Thursday October 09, 2025 @10:31AM (#45528235)
> Simplified, she said "only and idiot claims to have lots of documents" to support their action.

As our lawyer told us: "It does not matter what is said, what matters is what your can proof in court".

That life lesson has helped out multiple times in life, against people who made grand claims, and threatening legal action. But they all vanished when we pointed out some of our evidence. Its funny how fast opposing council tell their clients to drop it when evidence shows up.

What is the expression, the louder the bark, the lesser the bite? People who have proof, do not need to bark around on social media platform. They simply sue and get big fat settlements.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:16AM (#45527279)
Lofgren is a critic of Reddit moderation. It's extremely unlikely that he was paid for his blog entry, and he's not affiliated with anyone involved.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by FridayoLeary on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @09:56PM (#45522648)
Hello. It's nice to be able to interact directly with the subject of the article, so thanks for coming on. It's a shame you're being downvoted, because it would definitely be interesting to hear your perspective. This can't be a pleasant experience for you.

I have a couple of questions for you. Firstly the article really didn't hold back about you in a way that you don't usually see. But he makes very specific and verifiable claims. The owner blames the market for 40% of their decline and you for another 40%. You have made over 400 negative comments about the company over the last couple of years. You run the subreddit as a bad faith mod, and you run a rival company so you have an interest in the decline of codesmith. Those are some of the accusations laid against you by the article.

I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about them. Obviously i don't expect you to say anything that might create legal issues for yourself. But you have opinions that youre not shy of expressing. The article was perhaps not wholly neutral so maybe you can clarify your side of the story. Do you have a specific problem with codesmith? why do you care so much about them? Is it because they are competitiors? Do you take such an active role on reddit in order to promote your own interests, outside of creating and maintaining a better community?

To be clear i'm a completely random guy with no skin in the game, just looking for answers.

[edit to reply: There is no plausible scenario that my life will depend on the answer. Literally the only reason i'm on here is for casual chit chat. Frankly, this might be life changing for some people, but i'm really not too invested in the story so i don't mind opening some dialogue in good faith from my end.]

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by ctippett on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:40PM (#45522940)
This is a wonderfully mature and constructive comment.

I appreciate this is off-topic, but I really wanted to highlight/praise what you'd written. It came across to me as very "HN" and the guidelines appear to corroborate this...

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by FridayoLeary on Thursday October 09, 2025 @08:41AM (#45526840)
Thanks for that. I've been through the guidelines a dozen times. Following them is really the best possible way to have genuinely interesting and constructive dialogue. My last account got banned so i've been trying to do better. It's amazing how much some good faith conversation can get you, i feel in the time i've been here it's helped me develop better patterns of thought and argument techniques, i would say the most important lesson i've learned is to debate in good faith as much as possible and being honest with yourself about what you know and don't know. Most of the users on this thread are just looking to shut michael down, and expressing their opinion that he's an awful person... It's really very tiresome and boring. I have enough confidence in people here that they can hear what he has to say and make their own judgement.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by bluishgreen on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:15PM (#45522780)
You should be able to identify badfaith because your life depends on it. Otherwise you will drown in a pit of bothsides. Bad way to go.

Next we should hear from the counter party is from a court filing. Not here. This is well past having a chill chat on hackernews.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @10:55PM (#45523012)
Yeah I'll I'm going to say for now is that if all your competitors (that I spoke positively about) are shutting down and shrinking and laying people off... there's more to the story. A sad story about an industry dying that should be told.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by vachina on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:53PM (#45523313)
There’s a pattern to the way you communicate, where you always end things at a cliffhanger.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by truakon89 on Friday October 10, 2025 @03:09PM (#45542596)
He converses like male Karoline Levitt
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by cap11235 on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:19PM (#45523141)
Great, then give us more to the story.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by LilBytes on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:50PM (#45523293)
With sources.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:16AM (#45523431)
Start with this and let me know what you think of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/ana...
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by baobun on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:10AM (#45523755)
I'm sorry, what does anything there have to do with any of the claims people in this thread are asking you to back up?

I don't see anything there that adds anything to the story except solidifying the picture of you as an obsessive stalker. It certainly doesn't help your case.

In case I overlooked some key detail, please point it out.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by LilBytes on Thursday October 09, 2025 @02:18AM (#45524159)
We're getting sent around in circles, he has nothing.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:43AM (#45524728)
I commented on the moderation stuff only for now, https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fi...
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:17AM (#45523799)
So the article shows clearly that your graduates do the same exact thing. Grads from Harvard do it. But that doesn’t mean Harvard is telling them to do it. Job seekers are gonna be job seekers. But for you to basically stalk these grads and collect data on them…when they’re not even YOUR grads?? bonkers man. you have no place being a mod. It’s everything broken about the fucking internet right now.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by mikelovenotwar on Thursday October 09, 2025 @04:36AM (#45525067)
> It’s everything broken about the fucking internet right now.

This sums it up. The attitude and behaviours deemed by this man as acceptable are a highly problematic, and a contributor the cesspool that the internet has become.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by kjs3 on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:24AM (#45523483)
Were you a moderator for them as well?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:20AM (#45523818)
“it’s a sad story” is such an “aw shucks”, condescending sorta bullshit thing to say. I’ve read your posts where you claimed to be bullied as a kid (which i’m obviously sorry for if true), but to then channel that into becoming the bully yourself? That’s 1000% on you, Michael.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Hadriel on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:35AM (#45523913)
Michael for what it's worth I went to Codesmith back in 2016 lol and even then Will was a lil greasy with his marketing! LOL
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by baubino on Thursday October 09, 2025 @04:01AM (#45524845)
You keep saying that there’s more to the story but then won’t say what that ‘more’ is. If the article is truly not a truthful accounting of events, you have the opportunity here to set the record straight. That you are not doing that only reinforces everything the article is claiming.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:47AM (#45524753)
I commented on the moderation stuff only to start, https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fi...
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by efreak on Thursday October 09, 2025 @10:04PM (#45534812)
This is a link to reply to a post that cannot be used by anyone who doesn't have an account. For anyone else browsing without being logged in (or using a client that can't parse the link), the post URL is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45524707
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by darksaints on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:31PM (#45523198)
I hope he sues you.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by sowbug on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @11:48PM (#45523288)
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:18AM (#45523444)
Would posting to 20,000 people telling them that I was using multiple Slack aliases to 'steal students' from Codesmith's community - which was entirely and utterly false in every aspect of that statement - count under this definition?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by sowbug on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:23PM (#45529856)
If you believe that happened, your belief provides a motive for many of the actions that the linked article attributes to you. This makes the overall story easier for us readers to understand.

To that extent, it might be relevant. But you'd want to consult a lawyer about it.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by AmazingTurtle on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:54AM (#45523660)
Even if codesmith _was_ objectively bad, I am still wondering _why_ do you spend _so much time_ shittalking that company on every fucking occasion? Reddit, HN, LinkedIn. You are putting way too much energy into that, way more than the average person would objectively care. Makes me wonder.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Montymio on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:32AM (#45523885)
a judge would def consider the extreme nature that’s occurred here. the number of posts is astounding, and the SEO damage could be monetarily accounted for.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by michaelnovati on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:49AM (#45524769)
FWIW those posts that show up in search are not my posts and I don't have control over that.

I don't "post" that much about Codesmith. I comment a lot about them.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by muppetman on Thursday October 09, 2025 @04:06AM (#45524880)
A comment about them is still a post about them. This comment I'm writing, for example, is _also_ a post about what an unethical person you are and how your inability to understand or apologise for your behaviour says EVERYTHING we need to know about you. Or would you say I didn't post what an unethical person you are, I only commented about it?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by stuaxo on Thursday October 09, 2025 @06:44AM (#45525853)
Semantics.

Question still stands, why are you writing (posting or commenting) this almost every day.

I can't imagine being so obsessed by something for that long that I comment on it almost every day.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by jibal on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:04AM (#45527134)
> I don't have control over that.

You're a moderator.

It's hard to assume good faith about anything you say.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by Hamuko on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:40PM (#45532141)
Do you not have direct control over what posts stay on the subreddit?
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by thisisit on Thursday October 09, 2025 @12:59AM (#45523687)
> Numerous other bootcamps have shut down. Codesmith's decline is predominantly an industry problem.

In that case can you share the user stats for the sub? Because if coding boot camp as an industry is dying the growth of the sub should have also slowed down or plateaued, right?

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by JonoBB on Thursday October 09, 2025 @01:27AM (#45523858)
You’re trying to defend yourself, but you still can’t stop yourself from casting shade on Codesmith multiple times in this very comment.

You have just proved that Lars is spot on with his analysis that you are an obsessive stalker.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by stevev on Thursday October 09, 2025 @02:48AM (#45524360)
No doubt the industry suffered due to a market downturn, but your continuous posts and attacks worsened the situation for that company. Based on your Reddit activity, it appears to have been driven by a personal vendetta. If they pursue a defamation case, the evidence could strongly work against you. The overwhelming proof he presented of your actions toward the company would be difficult to defend. I honestly can’t understand why anyone would risk their own reputation—and that of their family—for dishonest gain. Most people are civil in such cases, but not everyone is if they conclude that evil was done. Scary situation to be in.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by mda on Thursday October 09, 2025 @09:59AM (#45527811)
You should have never started moderating that subreddit because of the conflict of interest, it is completely unacceptable.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by IamOC on Friday October 10, 2025 @02:16PM (#45542046)
Hey Fuck You Michael, you are a piece of shit and no one should get to know you. Just got aware what shitty people exist in this field
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by truakon89 on Friday October 10, 2025 @03:05PM (#45542567)
His responses here and on reddit remind me of Karoline Levitt responding to press.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by IamOC on Saturday October 11, 2025 @03:52AM (#45547426)
Yep, this man is just pure evil you can see that on his head. Everyone says the same lol he researched best thing to share this up with if someone catches him red hand
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by shaderguy1416 on Friday October 10, 2025 @11:24PM (#45546342)
I've been trying to comment and post on reddit u/codingbootcamp and nothing goes through completely suppress by the mod.

My comments are removed and i can't even make a post. I'm following all guide lines and nothing goes through.

Here is something I posted.

I want to raise a concern about moderator conduct. I have evidence (screenshots and permalinks) that suggests a moderator may have accessed and referenced private information about former employees and their family members. That kind of behavior would be unethical and could violate subreddit policy on harassment/privacy.

Mods: please confirm whether these actions occurred and, if so, what steps you will take. I’m happy to provide the evidence via modmail.

Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by fakebizprez on Saturday October 11, 2025 @12:11PM (#45550257)
Hey Michael -- you're a fucking loser.
Re:A Competitor Crippled a $23.5M Bootcamp by Becoming a Red... by PhilWatts on Sunday October 12, 2025 @06:45AM (#45557147)
There are people coming forward with evidence on Michael Novati’s digital stalking. One previous instructor at code smith(who also worked at Microsoft at the time), said he was digitally stalked, Michael Novati found his employment history and kept calling him out publicly so he would get into trouble with Microsoft. All this despite the person having clearance from Microsoft to work as an instructor at codesmith. With the twisted logic I see this guy using here, I would assume he doesn’t even see this as digital stalking. I guess that’s what being the “number 1 code commiter at Meta”(according to his linkedin) would do to you.