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Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by haunter on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:42AM (#45459778)
Heh. Does anyone remember when almost 25 years ago ATI (AMD) caught manipulating the Quake III benchmarks by renaming the executables to ‘quack’?

https://web.archive.org/web/20230929180112/https://techrepor...

https://web.archive.org/web/20011108190056/https://hardocp.c...

https://web.archive.org/web/20011118183932/www.3dcenter.de/a...

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by a-french-anon on Friday October 03, 2025 @03:56AM (#45460252)
Or Intel checking for "GenuineIntel" in ICC's output: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C%2B%2B_Compiler#Support...
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by cratermoon on Friday October 03, 2025 @11:04AM (#45463792)
Or Win 3.1 looking for whatever shibboleth was in MS-DOS and popping up a scary-looking message if it found another DOS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by keanb on Friday October 03, 2025 @11:10AM (#45463869)
I don’t think anybody remembers this since that code never shipped in retail.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by GeekyBear on Friday October 03, 2025 @03:42PM (#45466969)
It didn't ship (in the final retail version) only after the tech press of the day exposed what Microsoft had done.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by cratermoon on Friday October 03, 2025 @03:47PM (#45467018)
It did ship in the final retail version, in way. It was disabled, but the code was still there, and a flag was all that was needed to enable it.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by mattlondon on Friday October 03, 2025 @04:21AM (#45460415)
Just in case anyone else parsed that sentence the same way as me, ati detected "quake" as the executable and changed things like texture quality etc to increase benchmark performance. Some people discovered this after they renamed the executable to "quack" and the image quality improved but the benchmarks were lower, proving that the ati drivers "optimised" by reducing quality.

Ati did not rename quake to quack as I originally thought from this! :)

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by a_wild_dandan on Friday October 03, 2025 @04:39AM (#45460541)
Thank you for explaining. I was so confused at how AMD was improving Quake performance with duck-like monikers.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by stavros on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:49AM (#45461028)
Well, if it _looks_ like a high-performance texture renderer, and it _walks_ like a high-performance texture renderer...
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by _joel on Friday October 03, 2025 @08:18AM (#45462081)
It's probably been duck typed
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by tbalsam on Friday October 03, 2025 @09:12AM (#45462611)
shocked quack
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by taneq on Friday October 03, 2025 @09:54AM (#45463064)
If it looks like a benchmark and it quacks like a benchmark… duck?
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by Dwedit on Friday October 03, 2025 @11:11AM (#45463882)
The story was that they used a lower mipmap level (blurrier textures) when the process was named Quake, but used the normal mipmap level (standard textures) when the process was named Quack.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by robotresearcher on Friday October 03, 2025 @01:16PM (#45465248)
So the additional performance came with a large bill?
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by mort96 on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:09AM (#45460753)
Are there any archives of that techreport article with images intact?
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by haunter on Friday October 03, 2025 @06:28AM (#45461241)
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by bayindirh on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:12AM (#45460767)
For more context and deeper discussion on the subject, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44531107

Funnily, it's under an older submission of the same cutlass optimizations.

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by Cthulhu_ on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:37AM (#45460932)
This is weirdly common; phone chipset manufacturers did it with phone benchmarks [0], VW with emissions [1], nVidia did it with 3DMark [2], Intel with the SPEC benchmark for its Xeon processors [3], etc.

When it comes to computer graphics, iirc it's pretty normalized now - graphics drivers all seem to have tweaks, settings, optimizations and workarounds for every game.

(As an aside, I hate that I have to link to archive.org, there's a lot of dead links nowadays but these are important things to remember).

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20250306120819/https://www.anand...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20051218120547/http://techreport...

[3] https://www.servethehome.com/impact-of-intel-compiler-optimi...

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by cesarb on Friday October 03, 2025 @08:59AM (#45462458)
> When it comes to computer graphics, iirc it's pretty normalized now - graphics drivers all seem to have tweaks, settings, optimizations and workarounds for every game.

Even Mesa has them: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/blob/main/src/uti...

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by wat10000 on Friday October 03, 2025 @11:50AM (#45464325)
Goodhart's law: when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by darkmighty on Friday October 03, 2025 @12:06PM (#45464511)
> graphics drivers all seem to have tweaks, settings, optimizations and workarounds for every game.

Maybe hyperbole, but I think obviously they can't do this for literally every game, that would require huge personnel resources. At least looking at mesa (linked elsewhere), only ~200 games are patched, out of what 100k PC games? So <1%.

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by 0x457 on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:58PM (#45466484)
Well, pretty much every large AAA game launch complimented by GPU driver upgrade that adds support for that game. It's in the patch notes.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by account42 on Monday October 06, 2025 @10:08AM (#45491631)
Mesa is a lot more conservative about this than the proprietary drivers.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by torginus on Friday October 03, 2025 @09:06AM (#45462537)
Every vendor does this to this day - and its a morally grey practice, drivers hijack and modify the rendering loops of popular games, fixing bugs, replacing shaders with more optimized versions, enabling faster codepaths in the driver etc.

These changes are supposed to have minimal to no impact on the actual output, but sometimes vendors are really aggressive, and significantly degrade the outputs so that the game can run faster on their hardware.

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by surajrmal on Friday October 03, 2025 @10:57AM (#45463712)
Sadly it's built into the vulkan protocol. Even a fully userspace driver arrangement with a microkernel ends up giving the driver access to the client's information. Of course it's forgeable the way it's done though so you could opt out if you really wanted to.

[1]: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Headers/blob/main/inc...

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by doubletwoyou on Friday October 03, 2025 @11:54AM (#45464362)
I mean Khronos put that in for a reason. If the drivers didn't get explicit information about the application being run, they would do silly heuristics like quake3 to squeeze out performance.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by Aurornis on Friday October 03, 2025 @09:22AM (#45462721)
> but sometimes vendors are really aggressive, and significantly degrade the outputs so that the game can run faster on their hardware.

Do you have a source for this? I’d like to see some examples

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by AnotherGoodName on Friday October 03, 2025 @11:13AM (#45463904)
Nvidia has a control panel with it's drivers. Open it up -> Manage 3D settings -> Program Settings. Scroll through and see how every single program/game you have installed openly has different defaults in it based on application name. As someone noted above others do the same thing.

Eg. Frostpunk has Antialiasing for transparency layers on. Slay the spire does not. I never set these settings. Nvidia literally does a lookup on first run for what they judge as best defaults and sets these appropriately.

Every single game/program you install has different options from a huge list of possible optimizations.

Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by umanwizard on Friday October 03, 2025 @12:12PM (#45464569)
Applying different standard settings is pretty different from "hijacking and modifying the rendering loop", though.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by altairprime on Friday October 03, 2025 @04:12PM (#45467262)
[delayed]
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by umanwizard on Saturday October 04, 2025 @02:08PM (#45475339)
But the comment I replied to wasn’t talking about runtime patching or any of the other settings you mentioned. It was talking about changing GPU settings for specific programs. Not changing anything about the program itself.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by dahart on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:53PM (#45468247)
That’s not what @torginus was referring to. There’s nothing wrong with having and exposing application specific settings. There’s nothing wrong with drivers having application specific optimization patches either, but that’s a very different thing.
Re:Fp8 runs ~100 tflops faster when the kernel name has "cut... by Adachi91 on Friday October 03, 2025 @06:16PM (#45468469)
I feel like omitting AMD is relevant here for anyone who doesn't know the acquisition history of ATI, AMD had no involvement with this.