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Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by mywacaday on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:04AM (#45101405)
I can see a valid use for a version of chat control where the communications of all elected officials are retained forever and audited on a regular basis for doing anything illegal, proposing anything illegal, actions not in the public interest, cronyism etc. All data should be released when they die, 10 years after they leave office or upon conviction of a crime related to political appointment.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by WinstonSmith84 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:58AM (#45101922)
For what it's worth, politicians are excluded from this law (it's not a joke)
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by close04 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:16AM (#45102105)
Logically it follows that anyone who "has something to hide" will seek a political position. How many election cycles until all politicians are terrorists and pedophiles?
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by bilekas on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:27AM (#45102205)
> Logically it follows that anyone who "has something to hide" will seek the safe harbor of a political position

Politicians are the new clergy then. You're not wrong.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by ffsm8 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @11:06AM (#45104060)
Possibly 0 if it passes.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by fbhabbed on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:26AM (#45102202)
This alone should have made the law incoherent and impossible to pass
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by potato3732842 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @09:17AM (#45102746)
To who? The politicians who will vote on it?
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by NaomiLehman on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @02:44PM (#45107312)
Should be taken to higher courts
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by LeifCarrotson on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:45AM (#45102391)
Not impossible for politicians!
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by prox on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @09:25AM (#45102826)
Lets all register as politicians then.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by Bombthecat on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:01AM (#45103237)
Or they just delete the chats
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by ciupicri on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:33AM (#45101651)
Like the messages exchanged between EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla?
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by tehwebguy on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:00AM (#45101940)
Yes, why would this one be exempt?
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by rvnx on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:11AM (#45102051)
National security. Period.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by dekken_ on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:14AM (#45102092)
The EU is not a nation.

Now, consider, why should this one be excempt.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by ExoticPearTree on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:33AM (#45102277)
Considering that they destroyed those messages, I guess that most likely the EU paid way too much for the vaccines or Pfizer paid so much in kickbacks that if it ever got out it will lead to a lot of people being prosecuted.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by dekken_ on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:46AM (#45102410)
Oh yeah, lack of transparency is essentially evidence of criminal activity when it comes to governments.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by rvnx on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:49AM (#45102445)
Now it's defense procurements that are kept secret. Wouldn't be surprised if in year 2035 we discover that a lot of corruption happened there.

Foreign intelligence knows what's there, but local people don't.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by belter on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:51AM (#45101860)
They should have used S3 Object Lock for her...Since she had already a previous track record of deleting data. When she was the German Defence Minister during the Bundestag “consultants affair” inquiry, data/SMS on her official phones were wiped after they were requested as evidence.

And of course the fact that her husband was working for a Pfizer supplier, while she was sending private SMS to the Pfizer CEO, is of course an incredible coincidence.

And also the current NATO Secretary...

"Dutch PM has been deleting text messages daily for years" - https://nltimes.nl/2022/05/18/dutch-pm-deleting-text-message...

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by vixen99 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:39AM (#45101727)
How is it she's still in a job?
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by holowoodman on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:48AM (#45101827)
Plain old backroom deals. Same way she got the job.

The EU isn't a democracy, it is actually governed by backroom deals between member states' governments.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by grim_io on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:56AM (#45101901)
I'll take my good old backroom deals EU over the shitcoin peddling US officials any day of the week.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by 46891283682 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:04AM (#45101987)
EU propaganda really pays for itself if people still fall for this false dichotomy.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by grim_io on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:07AM (#45102017)
I would say there is a much stronger incentive for anti EU propaganda nowadays.

Certain state level actors would love some more anti EU sentiments right now.

On the other side, who the hell would pay for pro EU propaganda?

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by graemep on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:40AM (#45102346)
> On the other side, who the hell would pay for pro EU propaganda?

The EU, countries governed by pro-EU governments.

> Certain state level actors would love some more anti EU sentiments right now.

Why? What means do they have to produce it?

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by grim_io on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @09:22AM (#45102791)
What means? Are you unaware of the massive Russian government sponsored misinformation and political influencing?

And no, whatever the US or the EU do, it is not the same.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by philipallstar on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @09:44AM (#45103040)
> On the other side, who the hell would pay for pro EU propaganda?

No one - the EU gets its money from force: taxes on citizens and fines from companies created in more entrepreneurial environments than the EU can produce.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by disgruntledphd2 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:35AM (#45103687)
> taxes on citizens

1% of VAT goes to the EU, yes.

> fines from companies created in more entrepreneurial environments than the EU can produce.

Mostly the ones that have actually been imposed (on GDPR) go to the national governments.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by philipallstar on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @12:13PM (#45105050)
Seems like we agree: you don't need to advertise when you can force money out of people through VAT and rent-seek your citizens as customers.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by grim_io on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @06:42PM (#45110060)
Are you against taxes in general, or what's up?

I have no problem with it. I would even argue that the EU is under funded.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by disgruntledphd2 on Wednesday September 03, 2025 @05:25AM (#45113807)
> I have no problem with it. I would even argue that the EU is under funded.

I completely agree with you, the EU is definitely under-funded (but I get that the national governments don't want to share tax revenue).

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by disgruntledphd2 on Wednesday September 03, 2025 @05:26AM (#45113811)
> Seems like we agree: you don't need to advertise when you can force money out of people through VAT and rent-seek your citizens as customers.

Not really. Like, the EU only has the powers given to it by national governments, 1% of VAT is probably too low tbh as there's a bunch of stuff that would be better solved at EU level. The politics around that are pretty tricky though.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by nickslaughter02 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:13AM (#45103389)
> Certain state level actors would love some more anti EU sentiments right now.

EU is great at creating anti EU sentiments. They don't need foreign actors. Chat Control is just one example.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:37AM (#45103708)
Chat Control is indeed terrible. But they've done a lot of good too. Like RoHS, GDPR, DSA/DMA.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by nickslaughter02 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:50AM (#45103869)
An Essay on EU’s DSA Censorship on Freedom of Speech

https://profdenoli.substack.com/p/an-essay-on-eus-dsa-censor...

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Wednesday September 03, 2025 @09:21AM (#45115448)
I don't think unlimited free speech is the answer anymore. I see a lot of bad actors taking advantage of this. For example a lot of republican anti-LGBT propaganda is flowing across the Atlantic through Instagram and TikTok. A lot of people are now repeating the same tired tropes like the toilet thing (which make no sense of you think about it). A lot of people making themselves angry about made-up scenarios that aren't even real. These are organised manipulation campaigns targeted at demonising entire communities.

This in turn is leading to fascism rising here as it has in the US. Like AfD in Germany , PVV in Nederlands, Front National in France. This is not a good thing IMO. We need buttons to be able to push to disconnect from that when it gets too bad.

So I don't think this is a bad thing. Though Thierry Breton was a stooge who was mainly interested in promoting his befriended French tech companies yes. Still, even bad people can produce ok things sometimes.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by nickslaughter02 on Thursday September 04, 2025 @07:03AM (#45125856)
Fight misinformation with verifiable factual information. We should never accept censorship.

> This in turn is leading to fascism rising here as it has in the US. Like AfD in Germany , PVV in Nederlands, Front National in France.

These parties are gaining momentum because the parties in power are completely ignoring the will of the people and are cheerfully destroying Europe as we know it.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Thursday September 04, 2025 @09:53AM (#45127309)
> Fight misinformation with verifiable factual information.

This doesn't work. As an example the toilet BS. So many times I've tried to explain that that is such an unimaginable scenario that it's completely unrealistic, let alone warrant the amount of anger against the community. But people don't care. They love being angry at someone, they revel in it. They don't want to know facts, they want to be angry and rile against something.

The same with the migrant thing. They're blamed for everything that's wrong in society. Even though these things are actually the result of decades of externalisation to the poorest in society, driven by right-wing pro-corporate policies. They try to convert that into even more right-wing votes.

> These parties are gaining momentum because the parties in power are completely ignoring the will of the people and are cheerfully destroying Europe as we know it.

It's not the will of the people but of a small group of tiktok influencers that are riling the people up without any actual facts.

It's the same in the US, it's not about facts anymore. Most of the things Trump says are provably false. Yet his followers worship him. It's become a religion. You can't fight that with facts. Nor does this 'will of the people' originate with the actual people. Nobody wakes up and thinks "Hey let's cut healthcare today", "Hey, let's hate on all the gay people that never harmed anyone". They're slowly manipulated into it.

What we have to do is stop the algorithms that try to maximise 'engagement' with hate. And the dark forces that publish all this misinformation.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by nickslaughter02 on Friday September 05, 2025 @06:17AM (#45136939)
Have you been to Berlin, Frankfurt, Antwerp or Brussels recently? Not watch some videos but actually been there? These cities are slowly turning to drug-ridden illegal immigrant hellholes. Many of those immigrants have been order to leave but the governments do not follow thru and they just stay. The current governments do nothing to stop it and EU is pushing for more immigration and have established quotas for countries to take in immigrants.

Europe is losing its safety and identity in pursue of "diversity". The immigrants refuse to integrate and instead bring their work ethic, religions and habits that made their own countries shitholes they are desperate to leave. European people naturally do not want this. What do the right-wing parties have in common? They are strictly against immigration. They will gain more and more support as long as nothing changes and rightfully so.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:38AM (#45139124)
This is not true. The EU isn't asking for immigrants to "pursue diversity". It's just about sharing the load of legitimate asylum seekers as currently the load is too heavily borne by the border countries.

And we had crime before we had immigrants. It's a feature of social economic status not ethnicity. Before we had the Moroccan gangs in Amsterdam we had the local Mafia which was just as bad.

I do think immigrants without a permit should be evicted but the problem is that many countries like Morocco refuse to take them back.

And yes I live in a major EU city. The drug problem isn't as bad as you describe. And it's more a result of police budget cutting than immigration.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by HPsquared on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:02AM (#45101955)
For everything else, there's Monarchy.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:36AM (#45103688)
Well yes of course but don't think this couldn't happen here either. A lot of countries like France or Germany are very close to falling to the same extreme right forces the US has.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by raxxorraxor on Wednesday September 03, 2025 @04:51AM (#45113590)
I don't. The US has flaws, but the EU is like having an STD.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by isolli on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @07:57AM (#45101913)
Indeed, politicians should not be controlling us; we should be controlling them.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by theoreticalmal on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:03AM (#45101976)
How do you propose a law that’s illegal?
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by lan321 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:07AM (#45102009)
Goes against a higher law, such as the Constitution.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by Longhanks on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:47AM (#45102418)
Happens all the time, otherwise, there wouldn't be such a thing as "unconstitutional".
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by boxed on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:07AM (#45102012)
Welcome to Sweden. Public on day one.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by _zoltan_ on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @08:36AM (#45102310)
can you elaborate? this is news to me.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by diggan on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:25AM (#45103550)
Guess this serves as a good introduction: https://www.government.se/the-government-offices/the-governm...

> All communication in the Government Offices is based on the core values of transparency, factualness and comprehensibility, relevance and topicality. Public access and oversight shall characterise all activities.

> The Government Offices' communication policy covers both internal and external communication.

Sweden is generally pretty good at transparency, both regarding representatives and everyone else. For example, given a full name, you can get a person's address, telephone number, what cars and businesses they own, and even what their salary is, for better and worse :)

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @10:38AM (#45103724)
Oh that's pretty much in the worse book for me brrr
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by tmikaeld on Tuesday September 02, 2025 @12:19PM (#45105139)
It really is the criminals paradise, thus the record amount of shootings and rapes.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by boxed on Thursday September 04, 2025 @12:32AM (#45123604)
Record amounts of shootings... for the nordics. Compared to the US it's a rounding error.

Anyway, that has to do with integration issues, not public data so you guys are way off topic.

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by boxed on Thursday September 04, 2025 @09:44AM (#45127226)
And yet it has worked extremely well for us since 1766(!).
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by wkat4242 on Thursday September 04, 2025 @09:55AM (#45127330)
I just couldn't live in such a public society. Or such a restrictive one.
Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by boxed on Monday September 08, 2025 @04:05AM (#45165739)
> I just couldn't live in such a public society.

It's a non-issue though. Americans seem super paranoid about this stuff, and yet when everything is public nothing bad happens.

> Or such a restrictive one.

err?

Re:Europol said ChatControl doesn't go far enough; they want... by boxed on Monday September 08, 2025 @04:05AM (#45165742)
> I just couldn't live in such a public society.

It's a non-issue though. Americans seem super paranoid about this stuff, and yet when everything is public nothing bad happens.

> Or such a restrictive one.

Err? In what way? Compared to what?