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Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:23AM (#43761819)
Holding people accountable for their choices is sadistic?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hayst4ck on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:02AM (#43762321)
I've rarely had my hate spiked so highly so quickly by a comment.

Many of these loans are handed out predatorily to people classified as children, 6-8 years before their higher level thinking pre-frontal cortex fully develops, with no life experience, little work experience, a wide range in quality of parenting and childhood, with a society that has said "this is how you achieve the American dream of doing better than your parents."

The loans themselves shield the lender from consequences and put risk squarely on the the loan taker.

The seeming goal of these loans being the same for most of the structure of American society, to ensure desperate workers that have no freedom and no ability to say no to businesses.

When society offered these loans to people who in no way would have been able to get them on fundamentals, which was already a failure of society to invest in the future, there was an implicit promise that they would lead to a better life and they didn't.

You can't blame societies young for believing what their elders and even society at large tells them.

Universities failed their students, society failed students and universities, our own culture decayed in terms of earning vs receiving credentials, and the people you want to pay the cost of that are the people that the system victimized the most?

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @11:57AM (#43763636)
Hate? Maybe close the browser and go outside. Plenty of people were presented with the same information and options and made different choices and sacrifices.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by Ekaros on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:36AM (#43762727)
Maybe then ban giving them out for anyone under age of 25. Absolute total ban. Start solving the problem today. Anyone currently taking loans do not get any more of them until age of 25.

Seems like most reasonable first step to take.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:40AM (#43762782)
Requires Congress to act, which will not occur in its current configuration. If what is reasonable is impossible, it's only a thought experiment. Can consider trying again after midterms in 2026, depending on outcome.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hayst4ck on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:50AM (#43762902)
A social movement where everyone decides not to pay any form of debt has a higher chance of success than getting congress to act, especially act in the interest of people rather than the interest of bankers, corporations, or oligarchs.

We don't make people take out loans for K-12. Education is an investment. It should be funded, just not in a way that is so rife with conflicts of interest. Everyone benefits from an educated society except priests and other kinds of authoritarians.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by piva00 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:46AM (#43762858)
Unreasonable if there are no alternatives to achieve higher education. You start solving the problem by cutting potential opportunities without no replacement scheme for it, only creating bigger problems.

There's no easy solution to this, it's structural, it's systemic, the model the USA uses for higher-ed funding is structurally unsound and unsustainable. Replacement the model can only be done through a measured policy change but I don't see much of that coming from the US in the past 10-15 years, it's mostly flailing around with no clear vision for what it wants to be in the future, just an everlasting chase for GDP growth no matter how, at some point this narrow objective comes crashing down.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by Aloisius on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:12PM (#43765291)
> 6-8 years before their higher level thinking pre-frontal cortex fully develops

This is a myth. The prefrontal cortex doesn't appear to ever stop developing.

Early brain development studies involving MRIs simply only looked at people up to the age of 25 and the findings that they "develop until at least 25" turned into this myth that they stop developing and are "fully mature" at 25.

The age of majority was a conservative choice based on society's view of when the vast majority of people were capable of the level of self-sufficiency required to do things like enter into contracts. If most are incapable of self-sufficiency without a parental guardian, then the age of majority should be increased.

That said, we also ignored our own rationale and started allowing minors to apply for student loans. This is a travesty.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-developme...

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by throw-the-towel on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:28AM (#43761882)
I'm not American so I may have missed something, but isn't this a huge departure from established procedures which everyone was relying on?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by ru552 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:33AM (#43761963)
They only stopped referring to debt collections in 2020 when Covid hit.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by flerchin on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:31AM (#43761922)
If anything, this is a return to normalcy.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:31AM (#43761925)
No. The loans were deferred for a few years. When people took out the loans they did so knowing they would have to pay them back
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by 0xfaded on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:54AM (#43762210)
Understood as 18 year olds who were told everything would be okay so long as they just did what they were told.

I was lucky enough to grow up and go to university in another country. The magnitude of the financial decisions I was making at the time were < 1k and I remembered how much money that felt like.

IMHO blaming people for 100k bad financial decisions made under duress just as they entered adulthood is victim blaming.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by nyarlathotep_ on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:54AM (#43762948)
> IMHO blaming people for 100k bad financial decisions made under duress just as they entered adulthood is victim blaming.

Especially when the implied social contract broke down--i.e low wages, horrific increases in the cost of living, limited opportunities.

It's pretty common to find people that regret taking the loans to go to school and got little value from their education.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @11:48AM (#43773491)
18 year olds have enough agency to sign their life away to fight on foreign soil but are too stupid to sign for a loan? Or are you arguing we should raise the age of majority to > 18?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by dfedbeef on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:32AM (#43761945)
Careful what you wish for
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:35AM (#43761999)
What do you think I am wishing for, exactly?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by dfedbeef on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:43AM (#43762084)
Accountability?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:52AM (#43762186)
I am not worried in the slightest.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by smileson2 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:31AM (#43761931)
not a one way street
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by enraged_camel on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:31AM (#43761927)
Doing it while knowing that it will absolutely wreck them is, yes. Not to mention doing it with such short notice, and when we're on the verge of what will most likely be a serious recession.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by tacticalturtle on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:04AM (#43762337)
This has been the plan for months, even during the Biden administration - the plan was to restart in 2025:

> “Involuntary collections will not occur before 2025," a White House spokesperson said in a statement. "Defaulted borrowers won’t see collections until 2025.”

https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/2024/10/biden-adm...

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by techpineapple on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:30AM (#43761909)
Sometimes, yes, depends on the context.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by disambiguation on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:45AM (#43762124)
Which choice is that - pursuing higher education to have a better life, or being unemployed? What would be your advice to them, what should they have done differently?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:49AM (#43762160)
Go to a state school. Go to community college first. Enter a trade.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by fnordpiglet on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:05AM (#43762353)
None of these are free or cheap, and I’ll wager bottom dollar the majority of debt holders went to a public school of some sort. In fact student debt is most pernicious for people of lesser means and fewer opportunities, and who most need the debt to make it possible to go to school. These are also the people who are most incentivized to leverage public schools. (Quick google shows 62% of debt is held by public school attendees)
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:14AM (#43762450)
State school attendees face lower debt burdens than private for-profit schools. I can't find the data you are referring to that 62% of student loan debt is incurred by state school attendees. By these numbers [1], only 40% of public school attendees even incurred debt.

[1]: https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/average-student-loan-d...

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by tacticalturtle on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:15AM (#43762462)
In my state (Massachusetts) community college is in fact free.

In other states, for example Texas, it’s a little over $3000 a year on average for in state:

https://www.communitycollegereview.com/tuition-stats/texas#:...

That’s much cheaper than the tens of thousands for a public 4 year university.

And we should point out that for trades, you are getting paid in an apprenticeship. That’s better than cheap or free.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by disambiguation on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @10:33AM (#43762695)
I want you to honestly think back to 17 when you had to make this choice - did you make it alone? How many of your peers were aware of the financial risk they were taking?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @11:05AM (#43763089)
I'm probably not a good example. I thought to myself, "am I living my life for myself or for other people?" and dropped out of school after my first year.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:30AM (#43761907)
The debt isn’t real, it could be forgiven. If moral hazard wins, those who can will continue to leave the country, those who can’t will pay this tax, diminishing economic output, and less people will go to college in the future.

If we’re going to keep speed running the decline of the US, it’s a fine strategy. The people making these choices will be long dead by the time the consequences arrive.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by bdcravens on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:33AM (#43761970)
Perhaps all college, college housing, and college dining plans should be free, but until that time happens, I don't understand this argument.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by andsoitis on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:31AM (#43761928)
> The debt isn’t real,

How come?

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by el-berg on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:56AM (#43762252)
IMO the cost and value of college have long since diverged. Colleges and creditors are colluding and, unfortunately, many borrowers feel they have no choice but to participate in this sick game.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by ezfe on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:51AM (#43762180)
Debt is only real if someone is out that money.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:32AM (#43761936)
You’re asking how a line item in a database isn’t real?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by bdcravens on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:34AM (#43761978)
Isn't your paycheck a line item in your employer's database?
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:41AM (#43762068)
My employer is not a nation state or central bank.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:43AM (#43762082)
It's clear you are just trolling. By your logic, federal employees shouldn't get paid, since their salaries are just lines in the government ledger.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:46AM (#43762136)
Arguing discharging debt not originated in good faith is not trolling. My argument is this debt could be discharged without ill effect, to not to is a choice (and a poor choice at that, with economic consequences).

Debt is not written in stone. It is always negotiable, and only sometimes enforceable. There is no morality around debt, so I’m unsure why the strong feels around why this debt can’t be forgiven or renegotiated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5,000_Years

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by nradov on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @01:30PM (#43774544)
Discharging debts increases inflation, and is essentially a hidden tax on everyone else who made more responsible choices.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @03:08PM (#43775611)
>There is no morality around debt, so I’m unsure why the strong feels around why this debt can’t be forgiven or renegotiated.

What does this mean? It seems like the vast majority of people see it as a moral issue, both for discharging or collecting it.

Talk to people who feel trapped by their debt, and people who worked hard to pay off their debt, and they will often be clear on this.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @05:57PM (#43777078)
I've defaulted on hundreds of thousands of dollars of federally insured debt strategically (as the credit hit was cheaper than paying back the debt), so I guess make better choices than pay debts you don't have to? It's just a contract. If someone sees it as a moral issue, that is a personal deficiency; I recommend speaking to a therapist. The loss rate is baked into the credit pricing and potentially credit insurance the borrower is required to pay. Don't allow your feelings to bind you beyond contractual requirements, that's a self made prison. Like religion, it’s just another belief system used to exert control.

This is just hacking another system imho. Your opinion may differ.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @06:34PM (#43777363)
In general, I agree that people don't have a moral duty to act beyond their contractual obligations.

With respect to student debt, it isn't just an individual choice to default. That isn't a contractual option available.

Instead, some people are seeking positive action from others to void the contract, and this is action is politically contested by those with the power to do so.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:33AM (#43761958)
Why not send me $100k then? It's just a line in a database after all.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:38AM (#43762035)
Did you incur that debt because your country is dysfunctional, doesn’t provide education at a reasonable cost, and you were told it was the only path to a good job? Probably not.

[argument withdrawn]

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:44AM (#43762100)
I have plenty of friends that graduated from state schools and incurred no debt, all in the US. Does that invalidate your points about the inability to get an education at a reasonable cost?

> I’m sure you’d have no problem burning millions of dollars of VC funding on a low value business idea, as if that would be of superior economic value.

You know absolutely nothing about me.

Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by justinrubek on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:48AM (#43762150)
State schools aren't some magical catch all free education place. You might know some people who pulled it off but there are a lot of us that didn't.
Re:Student loans in default to be referred to debt collectio... by hiatus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:50AM (#43762173)
I know several people that went to school in NJ. I just looked up the costs and it's < $10k/year. That's pretty reasonable and NJ is a high cost of living state. No one said there is a magical catch all.