Detention is already bad enough, but then reading something like this:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/british-comic-creator-r-e-bu...

"While every item in her bag was swabbed and dismantled, she was subjected to a full body search. "I was in this very loud, weird, industrial space with pipes and conveyor belts and lights and sirens, being told to open my legs. I was silently crying, watching all my stuff being torn apart as someone else was searching every crevice of me."

I can't understand how this is allowed to happen.

It makes sense if you view it as an intentional effort to demonize the US. Terrorizing visiting tourists is a great way to get the “we are crazy, your best never come here” message out.

The simplest explanation is that this administration wants the US to be hated and sees atrocities as an important tool in that effort.

> The simplest explanation is that this administration wants the US to be hated

Why would they want that?

Off the top of my head, playing Devil's advocate it could be to encourage illegal immigrants to self-deport. The jailing of Germans with green cards for a fortnight is an unintended side-effect of cranking up the overall hostility level.

Perhaps because they know it wouldn't matter.

It's not like there is a ready drop in replacement for things people desire from the US.

I get that they don't care. I was just curious why that would be an intention in itself.

That department -- customs and border enforcement -- needs to be ideologically pure for the next phase. They'll need to be able to rapidly judge new hires for culture-fit. Can you do the things that only make sense if your boss wants USA to be hated? Can you deftly talk that group of travelers into all unlocking their phones for imaging?

To forge the cult -- the more outside hate the more inside cohesion.

>The simplest explanation is that this administration wants the US to be hated and sees atrocities as an important tool in that effort.

What atrocities? Deporting someone who doesn't have the right to stay in US?

I was thinking more the body cavity searches of tourists that were linked. The indefinite detention of tourists.

Agreed mere deportation is not an atrocity. But that’s not what’s going on here.

The thing is: this isn't entirely new, it's just something that happens very rarely to Westerners who don't alert sniffer dogs.

The "kids in cages" Southern border immigration detention ran through both the previous Trump administration and the Biden administration. Some pretty horrific stories from then, especially during COVID.

This article sickens me and makes me ashamed to be an American

It's what happens when you put a convicted sexual abuser in charge

That story starts with her being refused entry to Canada. So, there's more than just "US border guards mean" going on here.

Then it turns out that she was using Workaway, which is like AirBnB or Uber but for foreign labor on tourist visas. They don't tell you that you need a work visa to work in another country [1], but you almost certainly do anywhere you go, not just the US. The woman in the story was working in exchange for accommodation, which is legal for citizens but not for aliens: work permits and visas exist to deter illegal immigration. She didn't have intent to immigrate illegally, but the scheme under which she entered the country was illegal, and she confessed to it in her statement to the border guards.

The real bad actor in this story was Workaway, and I'm surprised they haven't been shut down yet. They offer an alien labor arrangement that is almost certain to get you detained if caught with the wrong visa, don't give you advice on visas, and aren't there to help if something does go wrong at the border. I doubt there are many countries who welcome their alien labor arrangements, either.

[1] "Workaway is a listing site that enables contact between members, we are unfortunately unable to arrange or advise on visas. There are so many countries with different regulations or laws for different types of volunteering activity, so we would suggest directly getting in touch with the relevant embassy of your destination. It is the responsibility of the host and/or volunteer to make sure they are within the law." https://www.workaway.info/en/stories/workaway-for-newbies-co...

You're right. But as someone who has been internationally nomadic for 15 years, I don't think most people understand how many tens of thousands of people travel internationally on tourist visas doing work exchanges to be able to afford their tourism. It's commonplace. Yes, it's usually illegal. Most countries don't dedicate a whole lot of resources to enforcing that. And in most countries, getting caught working while on a short term tourist visa will get you 1) a fine 2) deported (probably self-deported, on a commercial flight) and 3) banned from re-entering the country for a period of time.

What does NOT usually happen in these cases is 1) having a full body cavity search 2) being shackled in the back of a van 3) having your phone confiscated 4) being forbidden from contacting any family or legal representation 5) having your clothing cut apart 6) being transported to a different city without being informed of what is happening 7) being cut off from access to your foreign funds 8) being detained for 19 days.

The notable thing isn't that she broke the law. The notable thing is the cruel and unusual severity of the punishment for a relatively minor visa violation. Typically, when countries punish tourists so severely for what should be a slap on the wrist, tourists stop wanting to go there.

Even by your rationale, why wasn’t she simply refused entry and sent back to her country at her own expense?

Nobody is denying her visa wasn't correct for the type of work she was doing. But that doesn't justify the treatment she got. Nobody but violent criminals should be treated like this.

This was a paperwork issue and should've been resolved with paperwork - refusal of entry and a plane ticket back.

That's no rationale for the treatment she got.

If USAmericans got such a treatment anywhere in the world for similar reasons, it'd be broadcasted as a diplomatic incident in your news channels.

ICE statements about detention say it's supposed to be non-punitive, but clearly it's punishing for the detained. Lots of people get detained for what are actually civil violations or even just suspicion of civil violations, not crimes. We really need a new system. People shouldn't be locked up for more than 24 hours until they've seen a judge, and I imagine in many cases, lockup could be avoided entirely with a court summons (which if violated would justify arrest).

Non-punitive my ass. The German tourist was put for eight days in solitary confinement: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-t...

This is nuts.

> Brösche had her German passport, confirmation of her visa waiver to enter the country, and a copy of her return ticket back to Berlin

Sounds like all her paper work was good to go...

> she was still pulled aside for a secondary inspection by a US Customs and Border Protection agent.

Ok, that sucks but not too crazy...

> Brösche said she then spent days detained in a cell at the San Diego border before being taken into custody by Ice. The agency brought her to the Otay Mesa detention center, where she’s now been for more than a month.

What?

> US Customs and Border Protection accused Brösche of planning to violate the terms of the visa waiver program by intending to work as a tattoo artist during her time in Los Angeles.

Ok, let's say that's actually the truth. Let's say she told them "yeah I'm gonna work here". Ok, she's in the wrong, worst case but being detained for A MONTH?!

> According to ABC’s 10News, she was forced to spend eight days in solitary confinement in the facility.

?!

> Lofving also said she tried to get help from the German consulate in Los Angeles.

I wish they would have reached out to the Consulate to see if they'd supply any information about what's going on here. Maybe its policy for the consulate to not have any comment about cases though... not sure.

Cases like this make me wonder how long it will be before the first "digital nomad" or simply workaholic gets detained, after admitting they might check the email and have a Zoom call during their vacation.

Accused of planning to violate your visa in the future, how do you even defend yourself against that accusation? "She's thinking about doing something bad in the future"

Feels like the thought police...

there's never backstory given, we're just supposed to automatically feel bad and never get to have a real story about why that decision is made.

this is less of a defense of ICE than more of a push for transparency so we don't have to deal with low information appeals to emotion.

>there's never backstory given

There's no backstory that justifies indefinite detention without due process.

Sounds like due process was exactly what she got. Are you suggesting everybody gets a trial before they are deported? Or that the US has to allow you to enter if you do so legally, determined by trial? Either will result in much, much longer deportation times.

> Are you suggesting everybody gets a trial before they are deported?

Well, yes, because that's precisely what due process is?

If "everybody" doesn't get a trial before a judge, if _you_ happened to be taken by ICE[1], how would you manage not being deported?

By proving you're a legal citizen? But how do you do so if there's no due process?

[1] (for whatever reason; today it's on the suspicion to be an "illegal", based on whatever the guys smell; but tomorrow?)

Getting a trial for a visa violation is not what happens outside the US either.

Usually not a the border, no, because there it's an administrative thing, but then you are sent back to your originating country.

However, if arrested within the borders, yes, it becomes a different matter where you _are_ going through a judicial process, to assess whatever should happen, and why exactly (and to document the process).

What reason is there to think that there is any more backstory? More transparency might yield new information, but it might not. The situation might simply be exactly as it appears.

The backstory is that she illegally entered from mexico but CBP is in the US, Mexico won't take her back so ICE has to arrange deportation. Unsurprisingly there are no return flights from bumfuck border town to Germany so she is detained (and interrogated, her Instagram shows her giving tattoos to people in mexico) and sent to San Diego and detained until ICE arranges a flight. ICE prioritizes mass deportations so a single person likely gets put at the back of the queue.

A sane border would just block illegal entrance. But pretending that ICE should be optimized for single person expedited deportation is just stupid. While in CBP you may not be allowed to contact your lawyer the 60 days she was in ice custody was completely fair game, but she didn't for some unknown reason.

>I imagine in many cases, lockup could be avoided entirely with a court summons (which if violated would justify arrest).

This goes for most arrests, probably damn near all of them when it comes to nonviolent crimes.

Yeah, I can't imagine any honest and sane person describing solitary confinement as "non-punitive". What ICE is doing is both cruel and expensive.

I'm an EU citizen who's on the organizer team of Elm Camp 2025, and I'm really on the fence whether to even risk the flight to US and attending, hearing these stories :(

Don't go. Easy. You'll be at the mercy of individual ICE agents. Read this if you're wondering if it's the right decision, because this could be you: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

Do not come here.

First, do it for your own safety. A wrong form or the wrong answer to a verbal question after 18 hours of travel could land you in weeks of brutal detention.

Second, do it to help the cause. We here in America need to suffer the consequences of our actions. We need to see conferences canceled. We need to see imports stopped. We need to see people refusing to bring their knowledge and expertise here.

It is going to be a long, dark four years for the globe. It's going to take all of us working from within and without to have any hope of dismantling this evil empire.

>It's going to take all of us working from within and without to have any hope of dismantling this evil empire.

What is so evil about US? The fact that the left lost does suddenly make it evil?

What visa do you hold? I wouldn't be confident that organising a conference would fall under ESTA or B1, speaking at one should be, but ultimately it's upto the goon looking at your application at the desk. In any case ensure you immigrate as early in the day as possible to maximise the chance of a quick deportation if you are rejected.