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Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by lenerdenator on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:10AM (#43184348)
Consider this your reminder to swing by the home improvement store and buy that backup generator you've been thinking about getting for a while.

Gonna be a lot of discarded food in Chile over the next few days...

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by jillesvangurp on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:39AM (#43185324)
Getting fuel for your generator might be a challenge. Petrol stations tend to require electricity to operate their pumps.

A less reactive and better long term plan would be investing in tech that simultaneously reduces your monthly electricity bills and makes you more resilient against grid failures: solar + battery. It's not a solution in the middle of a black out. But a great one for dealing with the next one.

I have no idea how reliable the grid in Chile is. But even the southern tip is at -52 degrees latitude, which means their winters are about as dark as at +52 latitude, like Berlin, Germany where I live where solar power is very popular Anything in between (most of the US, except Alaska) gets enough sun hours to make solar panels a very useful fallback (with seasonal limitations obviously); and you can also keep your batteries topped up with grid power too using e.g. cheap off-peak power.

A cheaper alternative could be to pick up a few portable batteries and solar panels from Amazon. You can get a nice plug and play setup that will power some essential things for a while for a few thousand dollar/euro. Running the AC off such a setup is not going to be a thing. But you could run a small fridge for a half a day or so, keep phones laptops charged, and keep the lights on. Some people buy generators just so they can top up their batteries when solar falls short and run completely off-grid otherwise.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by asah on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:44PM (#43186043)
there's fuel stabilizer you can buy to store fuel for a year+, just calendar a reminder to use/replace once a year (good idea for other reasons).
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by mindslight on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:57PM (#43186192)
Batteries are great if you can use them all of the time - eg V2G, grid load shifting, or if your utility won't buy generated solar power. Otherwise the capital cost is too high to have significant storage batteries sitting around idle waiting for an emergency.

> You can get a nice plug and play setup that will power some essential things for a while for a few thousand dollar/euro

A petrol generator that will do this can be had for like $400.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by bdcravens on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:11PM (#43186313)
You can of course use your batteries on a regular basis even without solar, and even offset your expenses by filling them up during lower-cost times if your utility provides that.

Additionally, a good tri-fuel generator is often less than $1000 so you have power even if you can't get petrol.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by mindslight on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:23PM (#43186471)
Yes, that exception was the main dynamic I gave. But the cost of setting up a large enough system to have those options is at least one and half orders of magnitude more than the generator.

I stayed away from discussing propane because it's adding another variable. I too thought that was the way to go, until I realized it doesn't work so well in the winter because the self-evaporation rate is too low. It my experience it takes 3x 20lb tanks teed together to run my small 2500 watt inverter generator, and the baseline load isn't even that much.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by bdcravens on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:06PM (#43186268)
A good hedge against not being to access petrol is a multi-fuel generator, that can use residential natural gas or propane tanks in addition to liquid fuel.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by svachalek on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:10PM (#43186309)
Note that just having solar doesn't necessarily protect you in a blackout. A lot of systems won't work without having power on the main line to sync to.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by thinkcontext on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @03:02PM (#43187576)
Most utilities require solar or any other generator isolate itself from the grid in the event of a blackout. This is to prevent line workers from being harmed. But you are right, before you accept the system from your electrician test isolating from the grid and running loads locally, then re-establishing a connection to the grid.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by AdamN on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:22AM (#43185143)
This seems pretty wasteful. Going without electricity for a day really isn't such a burden and a freezer can last pretty long or if it doesn't there's rarely much of a problem with waste if you just eat the food in order.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by canadiantim on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:33AM (#43185250)
Risk management isn't a waste
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by njarboe on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:57AM (#43185512)
Too much is. How much to spend on it is the tricky part.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by lenerdenator on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @04:46PM (#43188601)
The problem isn't going without electricity for a day, it's that you don't know if you will only have to do a day.

Also keeping people out of the damn fridge. But that can be modified through other means.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by SamPatt on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:25AM (#43191609)
A backup generator is wasteful?

Where do you live?

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by AdamN on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @09:50AM (#43267235)
Well now I live in Berlin and I'm not sure if I've experienced a power outage in 3 years. I remember a Swiss guy from Zurich that had only experience a one minute power outage in his entire life through 18 before moving out of the country. I met him in Nairobi and there electricity was out pretty much daily and a generator was de rigeur. I've lived in suburban America and never had a generator but my parents were 'pioneer stock' and we knew the methods: candles, fridge access extremely limited, warm blankets if Winter, etc...
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by noisy_boy on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:25AM (#43184515)
Or a lot of impromptu parties...
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by ourmandave on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:45AM (#43185389)
By candle light.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by BLubliulu on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:38AM (#43184648)
Get an EV instead. Use it for bi-directional charging, buy PV to reduce your dependency and energy bill and a heat pump to be independent of oil/gas companies.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by aftbit on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:01AM (#43184900)
Hardware store backup generator => $500 - $2000

vs

EV => $8000 - $40000

Bidirectional charging infra => $2000 - $5000

PV => $5000 - $15000

Heat pump => $5000 - $10000

That's an awful lot of money that you're proposing people spend in order to cover a rare occurrence. Of course there's day-to-day value in having all of that which a backup generator cannot provide, but in a power outage, you'd probably rather just have the cheap gas generator, and maybe a $1000-ish "solar generator" (i.e. battery pack with inverter) that you can use to load-shift the generator. Run the genny during the day to charge the battery; run the fridge, lights, and phone charger from the battery overnight.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by therealdrag0 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:56AM (#43185499)
There is no additional infrastructure for plugging a vehicle like Hyundai that supports V2L into a generator socket. Except a 20$ adaptor. You only get 15A from it but that’s enough to run key functions for 5 days silently and exhaust free.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by loeg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:35PM (#43185947)
V2L is very different from V2H, but sure, you could charge your laptop and phone or whatever.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by therealdrag0 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:01PM (#43186225)
You can run your fridge and freezer, you can run your (gas) furnace, and your lights. That’s most people’s core requirements, and a typical car battery can do this for 5 days. I’ve also heard of people watching tv on it.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by josuepeq on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @03:34PM (#43187899)
Yep, ran my refrigerator, my router and my modem with an inverter on my Chevrolet Bolt EV after blackouts from a large windstorm in California knocked power out for a few days.

The trick with Bolt EVs is that one must have the car on, because the high voltage battery will not engage when the car is off for safety reasons. Also, the car shuts off every hour of unless the seatbelt is fastened. This is not a big deal.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by loeg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @02:48PM (#43187394)
With a forest of extension cables? Or are you talking about powerizing the existing sockets (V2H)?
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by therealdrag0 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @05:12PM (#43188841)
Since the comparison was between a generator, I left out the generator inlet you need. But that’s like <1k$ install. The car replaces the generator but the inlet is needed to breaker box either way.

Here’s video summary https://youtu.be/ZmmhOXsIRjw?si=eZh_MCWJjhrwNpm9

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by loeg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @06:59PM (#43189738)
Cool!
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by fragmede on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @02:11PM (#43187018)
and TV these days often means laptop anyway.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by mikestew on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:00AM (#43184885)
Get an EV instead

Be choosy about the EV, not all of them have this feature (Tesla, for instance, doesn’t last I checked). That said, after we got our Hyundai (and the vehicle-to-load adapter), I sold our generator to a neighbor. Less than a year later, we both got to test our electrical backups.

Hopefully you were going to buy an EV anyway, because a nice generator is about $1000. A Hyundai Ioniq 5 is considerably more than that.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by loeg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:35PM (#43185955)
In the US, almost no vehicles support bidirectional / V2H. It's only the F150 Lightning, I think. (Hyundai/Kia and most others are V2L only.)
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by ronnier on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:47PM (#43186086)
Cyber truck does
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by qwerpy on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:55PM (#43186171)
We had a nearly week long power outage due to a windstorm. Tesla has a power gateway, only usable by Cybertruck for now. that detects grid failures and automatically fails over the entire house to vehicle power. My Cybertruck (123 kWh) kept my house powered (15 kWh/day - natural gas took care of hot water, heating, and cooking) for almost all of that, with a one-time top-up at a friend's house.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by kibwen on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:01AM (#43184897)
Remember that having PV isn't enough, you also need to have the circuitry to disconnect your house from the grid, because your personal panels probably don't have the capacity to power the entire grid on their own (plus it wouldn't be safe for line workers to have random pockets of energy in a grid that's supposed to be down).
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by officialchicken on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:58AM (#43184856)
That's a terrible suggestion. A car is 20x the price of a generator while and at least 10x larger. A car can't power an entire household for days on end using a few gallons of gasoline per day, etc. A car is a transportation device, not a stationary energy generation machine designed as a backup in case of power failure.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by fhdkweig on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:25AM (#43185168)
Tech Connections did a video showing exactly this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO5fJ8z66Z8

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by cloverich on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:31AM (#43185234)
> A car can't power an entire household for days on end using a few gallons of gasoline per day, etc

Average home uses 30kwH / day. Average EV battery size 40kwh. Correct not days on end, but at least a full day to full capacity, and perhaps a few days at reduced capacity. My Ioniq 5 has an 84kwH battery so I guess I'd get a bit further.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by rad_gruchalski on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:09PM (#43185647)
kWh
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by kibwen on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:09AM (#43185002)
> A car can't power an entire household for days on end

This is underestimating the ludicrous amount of power an EV's batteries have. You can absolutely power your house for days on end using one. (Of course, that should also give us pause to think about what it means that we spend so much energy for transportation compared to household necessities.) And gasoline has plenty of problems too, like its extremely short shelf-life.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by mbesto on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:58AM (#43185528)
4 bedroom house in Austin, TX. A hot summer is around 100 kWh and my Rivian battery is 135 kWh. Which means I can roughly get a one full summer day out of my car's battery (assuming I still need to drive the car and usually leave it at 70% max).

So there you have it, I get about one full day. Not "days on end".

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by qwerpy on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:02PM (#43186237)
That's on the higher end of household usage. On the lower end, during a cold windstorm in the PNW I was able to get it down to 600W (15 kWh/day) because I have mostly natural gas appliances. My Cybertruck kept us going for nearly a week with just one top-up (because I don't like to go above 80% or below 20%). We deferred using the dryer and dishwasher, and relied on the fireplace for warmth instead of the HVAC.

On a hot day yeah I'd be running the A/C but ideally you'd have solar to offset much of that.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by megaman821 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @02:03PM (#43186922)
You could get something like a Span electrical panel and only enable critical loads during a blackout and set the AC a little higher than normal. Even a large house can go down to 20-30 kWh a day.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by tzs on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @02:55PM (#43187475)
On the other here in Washington a little west of Seattle with a 3 bedroom all electric house I use about 40 kWh a day in the coldest month of winter and 8-10 kWh a day in summer.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by whartung on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:19AM (#43185102)
I have two Tesla Powerwalls in my garage, and they (among other things) do just this.

I look at the size of those, and the size of a random Tesla, and I can easily see two of these shoved into the baseboard of a Tesla, much less the larger vehicles.

I know the Ford Lightning was advertised as a potential back up power source for the home.

The real trick is getting the power out of the battery and in to the home itself. It's one thing to run an extension cord to the refrigerator, quite another to get the battery plugged into your home circuitry. That requires more preparation, as well as an electrician.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by qwerpy on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @01:05PM (#43186257)
Cheap way to power the home directly is to get a generator inlet put in ($500-1000) and connect the vehicle to that. You can then use either a vehicle or a gas generator, which is useful during extended outages when you need to top up the car.

Expensive way is to get some manufacturer specific automatic transfer switch (I got Tesla's put in). The hardware is $2500 and the labor is $4K+.

I did both and used both during a recent week long outage.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by GiorgioG on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:32AM (#43185241)
You underestimate the ludicrous amount of power people use. In January (no A/C used) in my home we used 46kWh per day on average.
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by Galatians4_16 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:03AM (#43184922)
Feed it to chickens and hogs!
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by asah on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @12:46PM (#43186064)
meh - "By Wednesday, the government said that 90% of homes and businesses affected by the blackout had had their electricity restored, according to the Chilean National Electric Coordinator."
Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by ASalazarMX on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @02:41PM (#43187335)
The backup generator that needs periodic testing and maintenance whether you use it or not, and accommodations to store fuel safely if you want to be in full prep mode?

If the electrical grid fails to the point that you're days or weeks without power, having your food unfrozen is going to be the least of your problems.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by lenerdenator on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @04:59PM (#43188722)
> The backup generator that needs periodic testing and maintenance whether you use it or not, and accommodations to store fuel safely if you want to be in full prep mode?

Yep.

> If the electrical grid fails to the point that you're days or weeks without power, having your food unfrozen is going to be the least of your problems.

Happens several times a decade on the Atlantic coast of the US. Well, the days do, at least. Weeks, probably not.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by bob1029 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @04:03PM (#43188177)
A 2200W inverter generator + 2000WH battery can carry most households for a week before you need to do any serious maintenance on the unit. About 3 gallons of fuel per day and a mid-week oil change is all you need during operation. You can often run off the battery alone while everyone sleeps at night.

The battery you can keep charged, and the generator you can keep new in the box until you actually think you'll be in a prolonged outage. You can run fridge, internet, lamps off the battery for a solid day. The #1 thing that screws people with the small engines is maintenance after some initial amount of usage. Gasoline turns into jello in the fuel system after a ~year in storage. Oil needs to be changed frequently. Don't run gas through that small engine unless you really think you'll need it. LP/LNG is much cleaner, but can be harder to obtain and use.

I think of these small inverter generators as a one use/emergency item. Once I fire it up, it's on a 200 hour death timer. It only costs around $600 for a brand new unit. Catastrophic, multi-day outages don't happen often.

Re:State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most o... by iAMkenough on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @04:09PM (#43188242)
When my family had a windstorm take out our lines for an entire week and we had to toss food, we opted to go for a battery-operated cooler/freezer that charges off 100W solar. Bonus is that we can take it camping too.