As a general rule, I watch the cars and not the traffic lights. Mostly because many motorists (and NYC buses are the worst!) often don't pay attention to pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. In fact, I'm more careful when walking through an intersection than in the middle of the street.
It's the most international city in the US, and a disproportionate number of people who use the roads (taxis, delivery drivers, etc) grew up in places that have a traffic system very different that the US's. People in New York routinely run red lights, roll through crosswalks, ride in the shoulder - things that you might encounter in other countries, but are generally considered disrespectful/dangerous in the US. When so many drivers grew up driving in places that tolerate those behaviors (either in their home countries or as native New Yorkers), it creates a road culture that's very different than you'd expect in other parts of America.
In other cities, you can take a "trust but verify" approach to traffic. Drivers will respect traffic lights. Pedestrians will cross where they're meant to. People will (only) use the lanes painted on the road. You have to be alert in case an outlier does something differently, but we generally consider those people selfish exceptions.
The written rules and the practiced culture deviate immensely in New York. You can't just operate by the rules and expect that everyone else will too.
Yep. They "learned" in Connecticut, New Jersey and Long Island. And that's really scary.
As I mentioned, MTA bus drivers are the worst at this sort of thing. And they learned to drive (at least their buses) here in NYC.
Got anything else you want to blame on immigrants? It seems to be trending behavior. And more's the pity.
Also, getting a license in many countries is far more difficult than in the US. Where I'm from there aren't even learner permits. The only way to learn is to take lessons with a real instructor and the exam is really strict. Most people fail several times and spend thousands on getting it.
Not the only place. Many in the Washington DC area learned to drive elsewhere in the country.
https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/resources-for-non-us-citiz...
For example, an American driving licence can be exchanged for a Danish one if an American moves to Denmark, but a Mexican one cannot — they must take the full driving test.
https://international.kk.dk/live/transport-and-parking/drivi...
This doesn't indicate cities but shows by state and NY is very low compared to others. The worst thing is deaths are up in the country and the "light truck" seems to be a leading factor: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians24
Honestly-- this is why I smoke weed while I drive around NYC because if I didn't I would maul one of you traffic malthusians with a steel pipe.
Believe it or not, most drivers do look out for pedestrians. Some better than others, but another set of eyeballs is invaluable, especially from the actual car that risks hitting you. Unfortunately, drivers do not expect people to cross in the middle of the street. And they never will, generally speaking. People are constantly milling around on the sidewalk, standing on curbs, doing all manner of crazy things, but not actually crossing. From a driver's perspective, a pedestrian about to cross the street typically looks indistinguishable from a pedestrian just doing the normal insane stuff pedestrians do. Then in a split second they go from normal pedestrian to crossing pedestrian, which is often much too late for a driver to respond, assuming they even noticed, unless it's at an expected crossing.
Yes, intersections feel dangerous and risky. But that's precisely why they're safer--pedestrians and drivers alike feel the anxiety, whereas when jaywalking both the pedestrian and car often don't sense any risk at all.
Essentially, build more rail/bus lanes/bike lanes and lower traffic speed. The problem isn't jaywalking and it never was.
Another major issue in this city, though, is visibility, what with all the tightly packed parallel parking, and streets (especially in the western half) just the perfectly wrong width for modern car A pillars. I would fully support shutting down dozens of streets that criss-cross the city to through traffic and dedicate them to biking and pedestrians. The bike lanes here (where people end up dying, regardless) piss me off to no end as much of time the city could have just given an entire street over to bikes a block away, rather than some of the most trafficked (by cars) thoroughfares, and everybody would be better off.
But another odd thing about SF is that pedestrians simply don't look. In every other major city I've lived or visited, in the US and around the world, the vast majority of pedestrians look before crossing a street. I've lived in SF for nearly 20 years and I can't get over how people just cross the streets--wide streets, busy streets, blind corners, etc--without a care in the world. It doesn't make it any less tragic, but... it's just so fscking bizarre. And I don't mean to excuse their deaths. Cars should be more careful, and they're definitely not--I'm wary of letting my children cross streets alone here, and I get honked regularly for not gunning it the moment a pedestrian crosses the center line when crossing. At the same time I find it very difficult to get too worked up when people blithely step in front of dump trucks (accident two weeks ago where even the city said there was absolutely nothing the city could have done to improve that intersection--the person just walked in front of the truck against every precaution).
Also, drugs are a huge issue. We have a lot of pedestrian/car accidents, something like 70% of them involves controlled substance abuse from either the driver or pedestrian (and much of the time, its the pedestrian). Fent really is a big problem.
it also does not help that people in Seattle love a rolling California stop, which is not legal. Combine that with the baseline level of driver distraction and I have gotten almost hit by inattentive drivers way too much.
I dream of this version of SF...
Given the size of the city, and amount of pedestrians and general walkability, I'm always amazed at how hard it is to get a pedestrian street here and there.... Even the peninsula is starting to get them in a way we seem to not be able to.
How far away was the legal crosswalk they could have used?
if you have businesses and residences fronting onto opposite sides of a high speed road and the nearest legal crossing is a half mile away, that's not realistic. almost nobody will decide "hey let me add a whole mile of walking to my journey and a few minutes at a signal to cross safely."
Most deaths happen on non-freeway arterial roads.
Most deaths do not note the presence of a sidewalk.
You talk about "alternative transit options" but the reality is that large parts of our cities have no sidewalks or crosswalks and it is killing people.
Pelham Parkway in the Bronx, Queens Boulevard in Queens, Linden Boulevard in Brooklyn and Hylan Boulevard on Staten Island all qualify for that designation[0], and lots of pedestrians are struck on these roads.
[0] N.B. We don't have 'freeways' in NYC. We have highways. There are also 'turnpikes' which are toll roads, but there aren't any of those within city limits.
It's because some people think jumping out of bush at 11pm wearing all black to cross right in front of a car is a good idea.
No, car drivers are responsible for pedestrian deaths. Please put the blame where in belongs.
This is simply false.
While most pedestrian deaths happen on open roadways (with a 3:1 ratio), that isn't the same thing as jay walking. Indeed, most of these fatalities involve people on the side of the road, usually in the dark.
Most pedestrian deaths happen at night. This is when it is easiest to see cars coming and avoid getting hit when crossing, (atleast if the cars have their lights on, which is frequently not the case).
Most pedestrian deaths happen in areas with no sidewalk. If there's no sidewalk, then there isn't going to be a safe option to cross.
https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/GHSA/Pedestrian...
Please don't make up and share facts because they support your worldview.
Plus you have literal a-holes who ignore traffic rules on purpose, which in place where I live (Switzerland) is maybe 80% of the cyclists. I've had few near miss (5cm max) as a pedestrian where cyclist with red light zoomed through thick crowd crossing without even slowing down. Bear in mind that >=30kmh hit of pedestrian can easily end up in fatality or permanent disability, when wife worked on urgency in biggest hospital around here, there were some dead pedestrians from such collisions.
It’s common enough that not crossing at a red light as a pedestrian (with no cars in sight) can be a tell that you’re potentially German :)
It's a bit strange though because the city doesn't even have that many cars and usually it's pretty safe to just look both ways.
But going back to the land of the free: In Austin you might get killed by police when jaywalking. (Multiple incidents when you don't look like a NAZI)
https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/2018/01/13/jury-austin-p...
https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/who-can-get-away...
That is definitely true. I'm from Austria and I try not to jaywalk when there are children around because I have been taught this way (and I see the point).
It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian crossing while you aren't allowed to cross it is also the only way it is illegal outside of the case of "you action counting as endangering you or others" (like actually endangering not some absurd twisting of definitions)).
it pretty much appears only in the given phrase and hardly anyone uses it
but most importantly is that this phrase is about crossing the street on pedestrian crossing with traffic lights while they signal that you should wait a moment
which indeed is frowned on in Germany, depending on region quite a lot
but jaywalking also refers to you "just crossing the street" at a place where there is no pedestrian crossing. Which outside of Highways, limited-access roads and similar is quite normal.
and sure if there is a pedestrian crossing just a few meter down the road it is frowned on if you don't use it
Like legally speaking there is no direct rule weather a car has to slow down or stop when someone is crossing the road. But if not doing so would endanger anyone the car has to do it anyway. And not doing so means you are pretty much fully liable for any damages this causes (assuming they had time to react etc.). Similar going on a street in a way which forces a car to strongly break isn't legal, as abrupt breaking comes with all kinds of dangers. For many situations especially small streets, low to mid traffic situations or situations with such high traffic that they jam this works perfectly fine without needing any "official" pedestrian crossings anywhere.
There still can be "unofficial" crossing, but they mainly exist to make space at the side of the street i.e. prevent parking cars blocking pedestrians from crossing. This matters especially for people with buggies, baggage or e.g. walkers. It also helps with visibility as small people like children are easy to overlook between parking cars. But they have no special legal handling and aren't loop holes or anything either. Just the normal way pedestrian crossing had been handled in most places before care traffic became big.
Through because "people aren't always careful", "crossing streets with multiple lanes is always a bit scary" and "sometimes traffic is just too high" and similar we have pedestrian crossings with traffic lights on nearly all road crossings involving multi lane streets or streets with 50km/h speed limit. Sometimes there are also traffic lights for things which are only pedestrian crossings, normally with a button you have to press for them to signal cars to stop.
Lastly there are properly marked pedestrian crossings (zebra strips, with appropriate sign) which are special in that cars have to stop if it looks like a pedestrian _maybe_ wants to cross the street. Not just if it would be dangerous to not do so. They are basically a cheaper version of a on demand traffic lights in situations where crossing the street without one can be hard to do safely while there is very little pedestrian traffic at the same time (e.g. on a street where for a long strap is no crossing with traffic lights but sometimes people have to cross in the middle but only a few times a day). Sometimes also used in situations where theoretically not specially handling is needed but due to idk. there being a primary school nearby it's done to add a bit of additional safety.
Most people also don't know that you're not supposed to enter a crosswalk when the "DONT WALK/red person" is blinking, or the countdown timer is running. It is supposed to be treated like a yellow. Finish crossing the street, but do not enter the crosswalk. Though I suppose that stepping on the gas is how drivers treat a yellow also!
Lady in a Subaru was REALLY mad.
Germany seems very strict compared to the UK. You can be fined €10 in Germany for crossing when the red man is lit!
It's actually more like crossing in the middle instead of the corner, corners are automatically allowed even without special markings, which from other comments seems like it's either illegal or frowned upon in germany too, right?
for the rest basically if you do it "unsafely" especially if there are children it's also frowned on but otherwise very normal
some more conservative place might also frown on crossing close by a pedestrian crossing even if there is no red light at the crossing because "why are you so lazy to not walk that additional idk. 20m"
but I have yet to meet anyone who expects you to idk. walk down 100m to the next crossing and then 100m back or something like that
and all of this is for streets where there might be a traffic light, for most residential side streets people all the time cross wherever they like without giving it any thought
and in rural villages stuff like children playing on hardly used residential side streets is not really that rare (important not the "main" street passing through the village even if it's classified as a side street too.)
My assumption for the first 30+ years of my life, after watching US films was that it was something akin to walking while looking suspicious.
I find the differing conceptions of 'freedom' interesting. The US likes to think of itself as more free, but they can't even cross the road.
PS fyi, its 'great'. 'grate' sounds the same, but that means a thick metal grid, typically on the floor, or as to grate cheese.
I don't think I can take this claim for granted.
Anecdotally, when I go out there for business events the locals invariably suggest walking if the distance is ~1 mile or less. Do that there and back and you've hit 3 km walked on a single event.
In Manhattan at least (this is different elsewhere in NYC), as a general rule, 20 city blocks (going from 44th Street to 45th Street is one city block) is approximately one mile. Three Avenue blocks (e.g., from Fifth to Sixth Avenues, etc.) is also approximately one mile.
Walking ten blocks (~800 meters/~1/2 mile) to do just about anything is pretty normal, and walking further is pretty common too. If you note that's one-way, the round trip is ~1.6km and multiple jaunts daily aren't uncommon.
While street lengths are different in other boroughs, depending on where you live, you may well walk several miles every day. Or you may not. Folks who live in the North Bronx, Staten Island, Eastern Queens or South/Southeastern Brooklyn may well use motorized vehicles for many purposes, as the layouts are more similar to US suburbs than other places in NYC. YMMV (pun intended).
Edit: Fixed prose.
That said, as we both know, avenue blocks are of varying lengths. So depending on which avenue blocks we choose, we're probably both right and both wrong at the same time.
On days where I work from home and never leave my 950 sqft apartment, 2000ish steps is trivial to reach.
Then again, I’ve also seen the police ticket cyclists for speeding in the park.
Numerous Reddit threads for both topics.
But the fact is, jaywalking is against the law and when people don’t follow the rules, it just adds to the confusion which can cause more accidents. Just makes one wonder - what’s the point of it?
Usually it is only respected in high traffic roads, unless one wants to play frogger in real life.
And while there are technically fines, like 10 €, in practice the police has more usefull things to worry about and unless you get an officer having a bad day and someone has to pay for it, they won't care.