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Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by epolanski on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @07:51PM (#41930431)
It's invasive, heavy and more anti social than smartphones. Battery life is too short. Low volumes make software development for it unattractive. Companies keep pouring into ar/vr billions and no sigle killer use case to show.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:02PM (#41930487)
Isn't that the kind of description of the first iteration of many innovative products? The iPad was mocked just as much if not more, it was a big iphone without the phone, with no possibility of multitasking and a plethora of other limitations and yet now tablets are ubiquitous.

It's not hard to see how this product could continue to be streamlined and made more accessible in the future.

edit: typos, clarity

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by stouset on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:13PM (#41930561)
Apple showing up to the party is usually a pretty good indicator of a technology having crossed a maturity threshold: smartphones, tablets, smart watches, wireless earbuds, TV streaming devices, ARM laptops, etc.

Even their “misses” have just been devices that were too niche or bad value propositions for the average consumer, rather than being technically immature (thinking of HomePod here). It’s rare for Apple to launch a device that’s just far too early to be useful even to its target audience.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by jsheard on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:09PM (#41930544)
It's not really the first iteration though, the modern VR era started about 8 years ago with the first consumer Oculus Rift and in that time it's been iterated on numerous times by numerous players and none of them have stuck.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by lapcat on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:09PM (#41930542)
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:22PM (#41930634)
The iPad was $500 when it launched, vs $3500 for the Apple Vision Pro.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by lapcat on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:59PM (#41930852)
Yes, but what's your point?

"The iPad was mocked" is irrelevant. Many or most products are mocked by some people, even iPhone. Regardless of mocking, iPad was an immediate success. Vision Pro is not. I fully admit that the price of Vision Pro is the biggest problem. But you can't pretend that the first iteration of Vision Pro is just like the first iteration of iPad.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:27PM (#41931016)
My point is that they are two very different products with substantially different target audiences.

Now, sure, you can say the Vision Pro was not as big a success as the iPad even if you account for that difference in markets, scale, price ranges, etc. But that doesn't mean it's a total failure either, or that there is no future for the product.

Most people who have a Vision Pro, seem to like it. It's unsurprising that it's not flying off the shelves because at the moment it's little else than an expensive toy, and once the novelty wears off it's not like there is that much to do with it at the moment, it's also seemingly uncomfortable to wear for prolonged periods of time. But like I said, it's not hard to see how it could be getting better with future iterations.

So even if there is no perfect correlation between the shortcomings of the first iPad and the larger shortcomings of the first Vision Pro, there is a correlation.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by lapcat on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:43PM (#41931099)
> there is a correlation.

I don't see it.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by johnnyanmac on Thursday October 24, 2024 @05:01AM (#41933586)
putting aside my bitter cynicism of "Apple hype culture": I do think VR just needs to wait for the tech to evolve into the level of ease of "put on snow goggles" before we get wide adoption. But I also am in the camp where I don't see this being a market with desperate demand. The iPad is a great example because in many ways it's the same: some people read religiously on it, other people are artists and they catered to that market. Then others just use it as a "cheap" computer to put in front of a kid.

These are diverse markets, but far from the general market. I think VR/AR will end up the same.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by lapcat on Thursday October 24, 2024 @08:56AM (#41935046)
> These are diverse markets, but far from the general market.

What do you mean by the general market?

iPad has more unit sales than Mac. It's a massive market. The last time Apple reported unit sales, back in 2018, iPad was selling over 43 million units per year.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by dylan604 on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:10PM (#41930549)
tablets are everywhere, can be shared, and do not make people look ridiculous. hell, even my cats have apps made just for them. haven't seen any viral videos of pets wearing a headset.

not being able to see how this is different is very disingenuous. when the ipad was released, nobody had a device like that. apple's headset was not the first. even those the came before did not gain a lot of traction. so apple is not blazing new trails here that people just don't understand yet. this is an accepted as niche product line for certain personalities.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:13PM (#41930567)
> tablets are everywhere

They are now, and that's exactly the point. And people don't look ridiculous now because they became adopted, but even the first versions of mobile phones made people look ridiculous.

Have some perspective, try to think beyond a lapse of more than two years back and forwards.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by ulfw on Thursday October 24, 2024 @11:54AM (#41936776)
My 70+ year old aunt and 75year old mom (at the time) were using the very first (heavy and clunky) iPad. It was a device that immediately appealed to certain people for who full on computing was too much, when all they wanted to do was reading newspapers, websites, watching photos.

I cannot see this with a VR headset. It's a very geeky limited market, no matter the price point. But ESPECIALLY at Apple's price point.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by HKH2 on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:06PM (#41930514)
How is it innovative?
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:10PM (#41930550)
Well, for one thing being able to interface with it by simply gesturing with your hands, seems pretty unique.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by CharlieDigital on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:16PM (#41930588)

    > being to able to interface with it by simply gesturing with your hands
You mean kinda like how I can move my finger a few centimeters to interface with a complex, multi-windowed computer desktop?
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:23PM (#41930639)
You know perfectly well that you can't use any computer without touching a controller of some kind.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by defrost on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:27PM (#41930669)
That seems improbable and a challenge for many here.

eg: Theremoose - the Theremin Controlled Computer Mouse https://www.instructables.com/Theremoose-the-Theremin-Contro...

In the disability domain voice operations have a history.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:18PM (#41930959)
It's clear that we are talking about consumer products, typical use cases, etc.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by defrost on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:21PM (#41930986)
* Who's "we"?

* Was it?

* Remember when the mouse was a niche invention at PARC?

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by textadventure on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:45PM (#41931110)
So, what exactly is the point of this line of argument? That some niche forms of touchless interfacing existed already? And thus the interfacing of the Vision Pro is not innovative?
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by defrost on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:48PM (#41931120)
No argument. Just facts.

Statement: "You know perfectly well that you can't use any computer without touching a controller of some kind."

Fact: touchless controls exist.

Speculation: They may become commonplace.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by johnnyanmac on Thursday October 24, 2024 @05:07AM (#41933627)
Reminds me of the Magic Leap. Or even the Kinect. That use case is even more niche than VR, but setup some tracking gloves and you can perform gesture based actions on your PC (don't really NEED the gloves, but it improves precision without needing a special spatial comera).

Crude, but it's technically possible.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by pjmlp on Thursday October 24, 2024 @05:38AM (#41933840)
Do I?

"The Xbox Kinect: Your Body is the Controller"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TICbjFtnmk

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by jachee on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:13PM (#41930560)
The connection to the real world from inside is incredible. You can forget you’re not looking through heavy googles but rather at a screen.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by crooked-v on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:42PM (#41931094)
The UX itself is an iPhone-vs-Blackberry style leap compared to every other AR or VR device out there. It's just a fundamentally better paradigm for basic tasks and for mixing a headset (or future iGlasses) with non-VR activities.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by fwip on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:15PM (#41930582)
No. The iPad was mocked by tech bros who saw "Worse computer."

Pretty much anyone who had used an iPhone or iPod touch was like, "Oh hell yeah, big iPhone."

Pointing out that the device sucks to actually use in important physical and social ways is the opposite.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by eviks on Thursday October 24, 2024 @04:13AM (#41933271)
Obviously not a universal desription since these issues are not universal, plenty of innovative products without such big issues
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by epolanski on Thursday October 24, 2024 @04:14AM (#41933276)
> Isn't that the kind of description of the first iteration of many innovative products?

VR headsets are at their 6th or 7th iteration.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by hackeraccount on Thursday October 24, 2024 @09:32AM (#41935321)
They laughed at the iPhone.

They laughed at the iPad.

However they also laughed at the Newton.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by the_clarence on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:03PM (#41930497)
Agree. The Quest 3 and Quest 3S are so much better and so much cheaper and can run games. Why would anyone buy a Vision Pro
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by MichaelZuo on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:08PM (#41930534)
The Quest 3 OS and UX is much jankier than VisionOS.

Which is a huge downside for something that users are literally forced to stare at.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by tesch1 on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:28PM (#41931018)
This so much. Can wear the AVP for hours uninterrupted, but lasted 10 mins in Occulus 3 before getting queasy. Have given AVP demos to dozens of people, offering varying degrees of guidance and everyone just "gets it" after a couple minutes regardless. Eye and hand tracking UI is phenomenal and awesome.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by aranelsurion on Thursday October 24, 2024 @10:34AM (#41935910)
Since most VR experiences are immersive and take up your entire view, you barely see the OS other than first time setting it up and then launching apps.

Would be nice if it was better, I don’t see it as a “huge downside” as you do though.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by MichaelZuo on Thursday October 24, 2024 @02:09PM (#41937989)
For the average user, not the enthusiast, they are going to be spending much more time proportionally interacting with the OS, because they spend much less time total per day using the device.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by jsheard on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:00PM (#41930480)
> Companies keep pouring into ar/vr billions and no single killer use case to show.

Beat Saber did pretty well but then Apple made a headset that can't even play Beat Saber.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by bane on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:06PM (#41930513)
Apple has, somewhere deep in its DNA, an almost pathological aversion to become the Amiga -- a ridiculously capable computer for its time that is mostly known today for games. They've always low-prioritized games and its really shaped the company.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by gyomu on Thursday October 24, 2024 @03:22AM (#41932901)
The problem with video games is that publishers want to get on as many platforms as they can, so they have no loyalty to any specific hardware platform, which goes against Apple’s entire modus operandi - Apple wants its 3rd party developers making things only for Apple platforms, so that it’ll be really hard for customers to switch.

The only way to get around that in gaming is to have 1st/2nd party developers (like Nintendo/Sony tend to do), but making games has never been in Apple’s culture. Movies/TV shows are a bit closer to their DNA, and they’ve started producing those with mixed results - games would be a much taller order.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by johnnyanmac on Thursday October 24, 2024 @04:55AM (#41933554)
Really should have done with Meta did and grab one talented group to help them do this. And just work on a portfolio of decently fun, professionally made games. Not like Amazon that tried to just jump headfirst into MMOs and pretend you can buy yourself a fun game.

It's much too late in this stage of the industry to just look attractive for exclusives; the industry standardized (compared to a PS1 disc vs a N64 cartridge) and no one's throwing enough money to carry that plan long enough to pay off Like Microsoft kind of did. Not even FAANGs. But it's never too late to just make good games and foster series your platform is known for, like Nintendo.

But then again, Meta just shuttered that studio despite a hit game series from them, so who knows what's going on anymore?

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by pjmlp on Thursday October 24, 2024 @05:35AM (#41933822)
That isn't a problem, exclusives are a common thing in the game industry as old as it exists.

It is always a symbiotic relationship, what is missing, is that Apple doesn't play their part of exclusives like Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft do (and SEGA in the past).

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by johnnyanmac on Thursday October 24, 2024 @04:50AM (#41933528)
it's almost clockwork how they will use games for 1 year to showcase something for their hardware... and then proceed for 3-4 years to de-prioritize it until they need to yet again, show off their hardware.

that cycle came back last year when they used AAA games to showcase the power of the iPhone 15 and for devs, talk more about their porting toolkit. The last cycle was showcasing the M1 chip and Apple Arcade.

Yet these came after they actively fought against Vulkan support (and now they are using some form of MoltenVK to help with their porting tech) and hard blocked several cloud gaming platforms. Things that could have made their job a lot easier (and maybe cheaper).

so I suppose in 2-3 years we'll see Beat Saber working when they get serious with VR.

Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by pjmlp on Thursday October 24, 2024 @05:37AM (#41933831)
To be fair I am still waiting for a WebGL 2.0 game that can match the Infinity Blade they used to show off OpenGL ES 3 capabilities.
Re:The Vision Pro reportedly suspended because of weak demand by pjmlp on Thursday October 24, 2024 @05:31AM (#41933789)
I think it relates to how both Steves worked for Atari during their early career, and probably imposed they point of view on the culture.

Other than that their only attempt was the failed Pippin, so yet another reason to hate games, other than those on iDevices, bringing money home.