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Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by agomez314 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:18AM (#40726804)
What’s the use of tracking waste if no efforts will be done to stop its production? Cleanups are nice and all but you gotta stop the bleeding where it starts. Maybe I’m being too cynical?
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by 317070 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:38AM (#40726911)
Now in the UN, or at the next climate conference, people can actually say:

"Look, Vietnam, you are somehow responsible for 12.2% of the marine plastic in the ocean, with only 1.23% of the world population. We are making this trade agreement or that international investment conditional on that number improving by 2028."

Before, there was simply no way of monitoring these things. I had to invent that number. That is a massive problem in terms of the politics.

And it goes up the hierarchy as well. Vietnam can now also go "Ho Chi Minh City, look at this map, how on earth did that happen?"

Now we can actually monitor it, it's a way of keeping countries on the promises they have already made: https://www.oecd.org/ocean/topics/ocean-pollution/marine-pla...

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by dewey on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:31AM (#40727240)
> Using a six-year historical series of 300 000 satellite images, the team scanned the entire Mediterranean Sea every three days, at a spatial resolution of 10 metres, on the hunt for windrows.

Indeed, but I'd assume it's also a long way to go from doing it for a small section of the world to doing it everywhere and with multiple countries participating.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by 317070 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:48AM (#40727343)
The Sentinel-2 mission is doing that [0]:

> Systematic global coverage of land surfaces from 56° S to 84° N, coastal waters, and all of the Mediterranean Sea

The constellation is not complete yet though. Sentinel-2C is planned to launch in September [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel-2 [1] https://www.satnow.com/launch-mission-details/sentinel-2c

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by pkage on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @01:51PM (#40730662)
Additionally, the only sea covered in its entirety is the Mediterranean. Generally, constellations don't do captures over open ocean as researchers/customers tend to be much more interested in events on land; this makes it difficult to do long-term analyses of marine events as the data just simply isn't captured.

Source: work in the industry

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by bornfreddy on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @02:08PM (#40730841)
True, but coastlines are well covered. Assuming the pollution comes from the coast it should be fairly easy to determine what the hotspots are (see Po river on the map in the article).
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by gorkish on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:15AM (#40729075)
> I'd assume it's also a long way to go from doing it for a small section of the world to doing it everywhere

This probably isn't a good assumption. It's likely more about it being much faster to iterate/validate the methodology on the smaller dataset of just the Mediterranean (2.5 million km^2) before spending the effort to run it on the entire ocean (361 million km^2, 144x larger data).

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by aitchnyu on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:03AM (#40727060)
I was assuming the UN has to deploy bouys or ships at river mouths to the anger of the country owning the territory.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by crazydoggers on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @08:55AM (#40727839)
Interestingly The Philippines is responsible for 35% of ocean plastic waste.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic...

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by toomuchtodo on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:35AM (#40729244)
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by LetsGetTechnicl on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @10:33AM (#40728691)
I mean how much of that is because western countries take advantage of Vietnam and other countries in their region to cheaply produce their plastic crap?
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by throwup238 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:22AM (#40729131)
The US produces plenty of plastic waste on its own, but it ends up in landfills because of modern garbage collection and street sweeping infrastructure. Before the development of landfills and garbage trucks, trash was a much bigger problem in the developed world - plastics just weren’t very common yet.

Most developing countries don’t have that infrastructure so plastic pollution is everywhere, regardless of how much they export to Western countries.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by giraffe_lady on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @01:09PM (#40730188)
It's not "regardless" at all though. Knowing they don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with existing waste, it's easy to predict what happens when we outsource production there. However much uncontrolled waste they would generate, we are choosing to add to it.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by snthd on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @03:18PM (#40731510)
https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics

More than a third comes from The Philippines, India 13%, China 7%.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by jeltz on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @02:48PM (#40731243)
Most of the waste likely comes from their native consumption, not their production.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by mlhpdx on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:30AM (#40729200)
Not much? It’s the habits of the society. Other places have similar economic situations without the pollution.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by dr_dshiv on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:51AM (#40729432)
Is there a principle or a name for how measurement leads to enhanced control?
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by cheschire on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @12:24PM (#40729744)
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by yosito on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:29AM (#40726859)
The more information we have about where waste comes from, the more we can target our efforts at reducing it to the biggest sources
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by mulmen on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:36AM (#40727261)
There are efforts to reduce the production of waste and to eliminate ocean dumping. There are thousands of such efforts. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

> Maybe I’m being too cynical?

Yes. What’s the point in spreading negative falsehoods?

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by sandworm101 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @09:40AM (#40728205)
>> to reduce the production of waste and to eliminate ocean dumping.

>> Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

We need to stop conflating problems. Production of waste is different than disposal of waste. Reducing the volume of waste by a few percentage here and there isn't an efficient use of energies. Rather than teach developing countries to reduce/recycle, we need to get them to landfill garbage rather than dump it into rivers. That should be the focus.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by dylan604 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @10:31AM (#40728672)
So you build a landfill. How do you get the collected waste to the landfill? How do you do collections? Then of course, there's the training/habit breaking to use the new collection system.

I'm not stating this as a reason not to, but a realistic look on the logistics. It's a multi-generational solution, not a quick one in the least. So we should start now, not tomorrow

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by Tepix on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:25AM (#40726830)
If you catch someone littering, you can fine them. Theoretically.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by teekert on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:20AM (#40726810)
Awareness is just step one.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by raincole on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:37AM (#40727269)
It's just the very first step. How are we going to stop it if we don't even know where it comes from?
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by boringg on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:19AM (#40727160)
What isn't measured isn't managed.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by onion2k on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:21AM (#40726815)
Cleanups are nice and all but you gotta stop the bleeding where it starts.

There's a multi-trillion dollar startup just waiting for you to solve that problem.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by TrojanHookworm on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:26AM (#40726833)
ah yes, get ready for the startup that will solve EDCs in my ballsack and the ballsacks of all my descendents.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by jeltz on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:14AM (#40729064)
In garbage disposal in South East Asia? Almost all plastic comes from a few countries.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by voidUpdate on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @06:22AM (#40726820)
Have fun trying to persuade people to give you money to help stop it, when the corporations producing it can pay the same people a lot to stop you
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by wesleywt on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @07:48AM (#40727349)
You stop production by showing it's harmfulness.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by ffsm8 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @09:04AM (#40727907)
Not cynical enough in my books.

As the saying goes: trust is good, control/verification is better

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by BenFranklin100 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @09:53AM (#40728314)
As they say, you can’t fix what you can’t measure. This is a first step.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by paulcole on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:19AM (#40729109)
> Cleanups are nice and all but you gotta stop the bleeding where it starts

“Nice and all” is exactly what we’re going for. It’d cost us too much today (in terms of change to lifestyle and in terms of money) to stop the bleeding where it starts so we’re hoping that we can just fiddle around and that we die before the effect people have on the Earth gets really bad for us. We don’t care if it gets bad for other people though.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by mlhpdx on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:28AM (#40729179)
Don’t underestimate the power of ego and national pride. Shinning a light on the foibles of nations is generally very effective, for good or not. It’s clear from the images so far that there are local hotspots, and those areas aren’t incapable of mustering the resources to ~solve it~ [improve or maintain their national caché].
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by azulster on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @11:49AM (#40729397)
its useful to measure and track the problem if only demonstrate it's validity
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by dennis_jeeves2 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @12:02PM (#40729542)
Very similar situation in medicine. Diagnostics seems to have improved but not the cures, or prevention. To add to the confusion often early diagnostics + treatment is presumed to be prevention. All in all, it appears to me that there is grand delusion of progress while somewhat regressing.
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by BurningFrog on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @12:05PM (#40729564)
If you don't measure the problem you don't know if it's getting better or worse, or even, strictly speaking, that it exists at all.

"Let's first fix the problem, and maybe later figure out if it exists" is much worse than the opposite order.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by burkaman on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @12:37PM (#40729878)
You are being too cynical, there are ongoing global negotiations over a UN plastics treaty that will govern plastic production: https://www.unep.org/inc-plastic-pollution. It is slow and difficult but it is moving.

There's a great podcast called Plastisphere that had a lot of coverage of the most recent meeting in April: https://anjakrieger.com/plastisphere/

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by jnmandal on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @01:50PM (#40730651)
No, you are right. A lot of effort is being poured into monitoring and advocacy because that is the only place those interested in tackling these problems have to go. If there was an appetite for reform or mitigation, the folks doing high tech problem solving would be put to work in more meaningful ways. Worldwide though there is little interest in or support for changing our lifestyles, industrial systems, or resource flows to any significant extent (beyond extending them within poorer countries).
Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by jeltz on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @02:46PM (#40731220)
It is not a technology issue. It is a political, infrastructural and educational issue. Almost all plastic pollution comes fram a handful of countries which do not care about proper garbage collection and recycling.

The west, or for that matter even most third world countries do not cause much plastic pollution at all.

Re:Monitoring marine litter from space is now a reality by jnmandal on Thursday June 20, 2024 @02:17PM (#40741560)
> The west, or for that matter even most third world countries do not cause much plastic pollution at all.

This is naive given that consumption, production, and use of plastics is distributed worldwide, but with a heavy concentration in OECD nations.

You are correct that the issue is political, but pretty much everything else you've said is subjective and shifting blame. The truth is if you use and dispose of plastics you are part of the problem and your country should be working on solutions (the easiest of which is simply to not use plastic).