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Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by poulsbohemian on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:01PM (#39922333)
Here's what I don't get... so here in the US, saffron is generally speaking, extremely expensive and rationed carefully by cooks. Meanwhile, I watch these cooking videos on YouTube and people in villages in places like Azerbaijan are casually throwing the equivalent of $10,000 worth of saffron into their tea. Granted, I understand places like Iran (spoiler alert: not the best relationship with the US) are major producers, so maybe it is cheaper in that part of the world, BUT it almost by definition is a scarce resource. I do find myself wondering if trade issues / foreign relations are a factor in the cost.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by c22 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:54PM (#39922993)
When I go to Safeway I can find a handful of saffron threads suspended in a small glass jar for about $23, or I can find a similar thing for $30 at a fancier grocer. Meanwhile, if I go to the nearby independent indian grocery store I can get a cigarette-pack-sized box of the stuff for about ten bucks. While it's definitely not the cheapest spice I don't feel bad about liberally using it in my chai recipe and a box usually lasts me a couple months.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by aagha on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @05:40PM (#39923574)
It's a near certainty that what you're buying at the Indian store is fake.

Check out these two sources and maybe run a test?

https://sadafpack.com/blog/how-can-we-distinguish-original-s...

https://motherwouldknow.com/how-to-identify-real-saffron-avo...

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by throwway120385 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:50PM (#39924847)
They grow it in Eastern Washington: https://cyrussaffron.com/about-us-1. And it is significantly cheaper than the imported stuff.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by cmclaughlin on Thursday April 04, 2024 @09:08AM (#39929926)
Thanks for sharing this!

I’m half Iranian and didn’t grow up with my dad, so I have very little cultural connection except for my love of Persian food.

It’s hard for me to justify buying the little bottles of Saffron at groceries stores given the price and the ratio of product to packaging.

Now I’m going to order from that company and step up my culinary game! Still not cheap but at least it feels like a good deal and I appreciate that it’s not shipped across the world and that it’s available in bulk.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:09PM (#39924506)
> https://sadafpack.com/blog/how-can-we-distinguish-original-s...

The contents on the website are a bit.. weird? Good 'ol GPT maybe?

> 3. Distinguishing fake saffron with gasoline Saffron does not dissolve in gasoline. Therefore, by dissolving saffron in gasoline, you can decide if your saffron is original or fake.

This doesn't make sense.

> #first stage;

Put saffron in water. In some cases it will change the color of the water very quickly; but this color change is not worth it, because this fast color change signifies fake saffron.

#second stage;

Put the root in water for a short time. When you remove the root from the water, the original saffron does not lose its color, while if it is fake, it loses its added color completely and does not look the same.

Either someone is poor at communicating in English and using heading styles, or this is some kind of poor quality hallucination.

A personal method I think is effective (especially you are familiar with saffron's smell/taste), is to soak a little of it (as mentioned) for a few hours, and taste it. It should have a slightly sweetish, herbal taste.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by pazimzadeh on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:44PM (#39924805)
you want to buy your saffron from people who don't speak english, trust me
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:20PM (#39925494)
Sure, but I wouldn’t expect such a person to know to use a # for headings either.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by pazimzadeh on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:55PM (#39925719)
1. # might be generated by some blogging software; 2. you might be some kind of racist
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by curiousObject on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:04PM (#39926134)
Good comment, but you don’t need to say #2
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by krageon on Thursday April 04, 2024 @07:49AM (#39929133)
I think it's reasonable to invite people to reinvestigate their preconceived notions of what folks who don't speak english do and do not know. The original comment was essentially "well how would they know to use a # for a heading? I don't expect that from a non-english speaker", which is definitely a statement that should result in some introspection.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @08:44AM (#39929706)
I think it’s quite unwarranted and very judgemental. I’m myself a non native English speaker and come from a country where the majority aren’t a native speaker.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @11:02AM (#39931301)
To clarify, the stereotypical person who'd be likely to be selling saffron is likely a trader/merchant who's been at it for decades. Such people are excellent at business but often struggle with technology (no offense meant, you don't need to be good at tech to be a good/nice person). I wouldn't except this kind of person to know what a # does for headings.

(It's possible they asked some younger kid/nephew for help - again speaking from experience as I've seen this trend a lot as an Asian myself - and younger gens would likely know how to use a hashtag/pound, but younger gens are generally quite decent with English too. Again, this is in general - of course there are exceptions which this article appears to be.)

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @08:45AM (#39929727)
1 makes sense, but 2 is very unnecessary. I’m not a native speaker myself, and my main suspicion did not even involve humans writing this.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by throwup238 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:44PM (#39925651)
First archived version on the wayback machine is from November, 2020: https://web.archive.org/web/20201127234815/https://sadafpack...
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:51AM (#39931157)
Thank you!
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by hombre_fatal on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:22AM (#39926841)
When have you seen ChatGPT write English like that?
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:54AM (#39931195)
I think earlier versions (GPT2? 3?) were a bit wonky in the sense that they'd make sentences which appeared grammatically correct but not actually make sense. But I didn't play around with them too much. Anyway, the article was nearly the same in 2020 so it's unlikely to be that.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by user_7832 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:56AM (#39931230)
I'm a bit surprised why being cautious and pointing out suspicious parts warrants downvotes. I'm happy to chat with anyone who thinks so to understand their perspective.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by enlyth on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @06:28PM (#39924100)
A local restaurant where I live has a dish (chili pepper squid) where they add a generous amount of saffron to it, and I always wondered how they can keep the cost so low.

Now when I looked at the pictures on the website you linked, it definitely looks like the fake stuff.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by huytersd on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:37PM (#39933546)
I know the taste of saffron and have never not gotten real saffron at an Indian grocery store, atleast in the eastern United States.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by metaphor on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @06:36PM (#39924187)
> Meanwhile, if I go to the nearby independent indian grocery store I can get a cigarette-pack-sized box of the stuff for about ten bucks.

Worth noting that saffron adulteration in India is common enough that the country's Food Safety and Standards Authority disseminates public guidance on how to detect for it at home; see serial numbers 46 and 47 here[1].

[1] https://www.fssai.gov.in/cms/checkadulteration.php

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by hammock on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @05:17PM (#39923281)
Could it be fake, adulterated or poisonous somehow?
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by hammock on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @06:38PM (#39924209)
BS to downvote me for this comment. Cheap olive oil is counterfeit. Cheap milk, honey and coffee are adulterated with fillers. Cheap tumeric is colored with lead oxide
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by throwway120385 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:52PM (#39924861)
Not always. I've done the color test on a lot of cheap spices I get in the middle eastern stores I can go to and they've always passed the tests. Sometimes it's cheaper because you're not paying for it to be portioned into little glass jars and sold as an exotic, rare thing like it is in western european cuisine.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by tired_throwaway on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:02PM (#39924434)
I can buy some of your claims, but how do you adulterate a coffee bean?
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by ssl-3 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:44PM (#39924801)
Coffee beans are bin-sorted in a way where the good coffee gets better, and the lesser coffee gets worse.

The most-shapely and consistent beans go to the more-premium lines.

The small, underdeveloped, or misshapen beans (called "clinkers") go to the cheaper lines, along with the other defects. And so does the chaff from the coffee hulls, which is rolled up into weird little balls and thrown in too -- which is not done with premium coffees. The unavoidable portion of insect parts is higher in cheap coffee than it is in expensive coffee.

In an ideal world, all of the stuff that is removed from premium coffees would be used as compost or something.

But it is instead included in the lesser coffees, where it is consumed.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by infecto on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:25PM (#39924673)
You add fillers to the ground product.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by computershit on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:35PM (#39925143)
Downvotes were for poison hyperbole almost certainly
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by fbdab103 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:16AM (#39926806)
Poison seems totally fair. Counterfeit tumeric can have high amounts of lead. Lead being one of those chemicals with no safe amount.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by mrguyorama on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:20PM (#39934663)
We literally have a cinnamon adulteration case going through the US right now. Children were poisoned by applesauce with adulterated cinnamon.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by BobaFloutist on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:04AM (#39926414)
Cheap olive oil from Costco is not counterfeit. Cheap honey from Costco isn't counterfeit. Cheap vanilla from Costco is...once again, not counterfeit.

Moral: Buy things from Costco.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by gnicholas on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:37AM (#39926581)
Olive oil should be used within a reasonably short time of opening, which makes Costco-sized bottles less practical. We buy honey and vanilla extract from Costco, but we don't use olive oil anywhere near fast enough to justify buying Costco-sized jugs.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by vasco on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:31AM (#39927186)
My family makes a small batch of olive oil from a couple of big trees we have and have never gotten through what we make that fast, even though we use a lot. What's the problem in taking long to consume it? (Months)
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by gnicholas on Friday April 05, 2024 @12:00AM (#39938561)
I assume that the olive oil I buy in the store is very old compared to fresh-pressed oil. Similarly, my aunt has an avocado tree, and her fresh-picked avocados stay ripe for weeks, unlike the store-bought kind that have a sweet spot of ~36 hours.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by faizan-ali on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:40AM (#39927238)
Olive oil somm here (yeah that's a thing!)

Olive oil (and all cooking oils in general) are the opposite of wine - once bottled they start degrading and any additional exposure to air, light, heat degrades them further.

What degrades specifically? Usually it's the nuanced flavors and health benefits of good extra virgin, it'll usually be fine for cooking but you're losing out on the purposeful decision of using olive oil over vegetable oils (gross)

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by pcl on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:53AM (#39927663)
Olive oil is so much cheaper in bulk. Do you have any tips for how to preserve it? Intuitively, I would assume that re-bottling a large volume into several small bottles (and then keeping the extras sealed and in the dark) would be better than using a larger bottle continuously. Does that hold up to your experience?
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by gnicholas on Friday April 05, 2024 @12:03AM (#39938573)
If exposure to air is bad, it's possible that re-bottling wouldn't work well. I don't know if bottled olive oil is treated like many other packaged foods and sealed in with an inert(ish) gas, but I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. I don't know how you could replicate that at home.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by fyt2024 on Sunday April 14, 2024 @06:35AM (#40030158)
Fill something into a smaller bottle. The stock:

Freeze

No light

Add a little vitamin E. Vit e catches to radicals and therefore prevent oxygenation

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by BobaFloutist on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:05PM (#39933086)
I can easily taste the difference between food cooked with olive oil and natural oils as long as it's a relatively mild dish with a limited number of flavors (which is the appropriate use case).

It's so weird to me when people act like neutral oil has no applications. Olive oil can be good without neutral oils having to be bad. They're just good for different things.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by thfuran on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:43AM (#39926622)
Not lead oxide, lead chromate. So you can get all the hexavalent chromium you could ever need. But by "cheap", I think you mean "the absolute dodgiest crap that mostly never even gets exported from Bangladesh".
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by tekla on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @06:09PM (#39923884)
It's almost definitely fake
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by jimmySixDOF on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:41AM (#39931036)
Not saying anything about your case but I see a lot of people confusing Safflower and Saffron and it's not always clearly labeled. They can add a similar color but thats about it. FWIW, I like to keep a little saffron in honey then use that for tea it vs adding threads directly.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by yifanl on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:23PM (#39922591)
I'm not saying I don't believe you, but how credible are these cooking videos? $10000 of saffron could provide enough flavour for easily 6 months worth of tea.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by poulsbohemian on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:28PM (#39925557)
I’m just saying - you watch these people pull out some giant jar that is more saffron than I’ve ever seen in my life and they use it like it’s no big deal. Meanwhile I’m pulling out individual threads with tweezers because the cost is so high
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by Anotheroneagain on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:30AM (#39926535)
The west isn't that rich anymore - I think it's mostly an artifact from only taking western things into account. The numbers would look very different if the methods weren't biased.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by rpigab on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:09AM (#39927727)
Yes, it's also a difference in values and culture, we are fools to think that Azerbaidjan would desperately need expensive weapons in their recent conflict against Armenia, when in reality they'd always prefer a dozen saffron tea cups over a thousand mortar shells to shoot towards the Nagorno-Karabakh.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by globular-toast on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:53AM (#39927659)
A $20k per year tea budget also seems incredibly high!
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by ghastmaster on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:54PM (#39924877)
I have a Greek friend who's family goes into the mountains and picks it. There is no market infrastructure in the villages, similar to how venison is expensive at a restaurant, yet poor rural hunters kill and eat it all the time.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by poulsbohemian on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:29PM (#39925564)
I suspect you are right here - not dissimilar to how I go to the woods after morels and would never pay the $50/pound that you find in some farmer’s markets
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by Filligree on Thursday April 04, 2024 @07:57AM (#39929226)
Picking mushrooms wild is, in fairness, hugely time-intensive.

Also a great outdoor activity, so keep doing that. I'm sure you know just the right spots by now. :-)

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by altinagr on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:16AM (#39927447)
That's common with foragers. They also pick wild mushrooms which are very expensive in the market.

Greece produces saffron, https://safran.gr/ You can find them in shops, even on airport shops.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by pfannkuchen on Thursday April 04, 2024 @06:46AM (#39928674)
I thought the venison thing was because it’s illegal to farm deer (in the US anyway).
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by poulsbohemian on Friday April 05, 2024 @02:41PM (#39945631)
I can't speak to deer, but my cousin had an elk farm previously so that was at least legal. Given concerns over wasting disease, I'm not sure if farming deer would be a good or bad idea - as in, do we end up with a concentrated population that might spread the disease faster, or do we save the species by separating it from their wild cousins?
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by kbutler on Saturday April 13, 2024 @10:39AM (#40023436)
Often complicated, rather than illegal. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/deer-farmin...

While driving through Texas after the total eclipse, my wife and I were reading about the high fences on Texas ranches (deer hunting ranches, possibly with managed breeding), and enjoyed this article on the tradeoffs https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/which-side-of-the-f...

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by CoolestBeans on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:18PM (#39925054)
My parents love watching those videos so I know what you're talking about. There's four factors I think.

One, the quality of the saffron makes a big difference in price. Longer deeper red strands are much more expensive than shorter and more yellow strands. I suspect they are not using the most expensive saffron in their teas.

Two, there's a lot of markup purchasing saffron from most retailers, especially here in the US. You can get that amount of saffron for far less than $10,000 if you know someone who has a connect.

Three, as you said the majority of saffron production is from Iran. Some friends I know are getting their saffron from the UAE but I'm pretty sure its being re-exported from Iran.

Four, those videos are ultimately productions. If you compare the earlier videos to the later videos on some of that channel you can tell they've upgraded their digs. They might just be exaggerating for the camera.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by poulsbohemian on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:31PM (#39925573)
No kidding - last time I saw a video they were using better Shun knives than the ones I use in my kitchen. A big step from what they had in their first videos, and kinda neat to see the upgraded life their worldwide platform has given them
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by jorvi on Thursday April 04, 2024 @07:55AM (#39929206)
There is also a lot of "fake" saffron. Keuringdienst van Waarde (Dutch TV show that analyzes the quality / scams in food) has a whole item on it: https://kro-ncrv.nl/programmas/keuringsdienst-van-waarde/pep...
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by noduerme on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @10:56PM (#39926074)
If you're talking about the Azerbaijan outdoor chef who digs a pit with a backhoe to barbecue a whole cow, that guy is amazing. My dad's an old pitmaster and became obsessed and sends me the guy's videos religiously.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by djoo on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:40AM (#39926926)
I’m curious ! Can you share the link ?

Thanks in advance

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by vasco on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:26AM (#39927160)
Literally all the search results for "Azerbaijan outdoor chef"
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by abenga on Thursday April 04, 2024 @06:01AM (#39928418)
His YT channel is called "Wilderness Cooking" I think.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by cess11 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @07:03AM (#39928775)
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/@WILDERNESSCOOKING/videos

It's not really very wildernessy since most of the time he's just outside his house, but still quite interesting and a good inspirational resource.

Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by poulsbohemian on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:48PM (#39932856)
That’s actually a different guy that the videos I was thinking, but still represents the same idea.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by tech_ken on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:00AM (#39926398)
Some types of saffron are fake I think. I don’t know the difference, but some cooking blogs I’ve read mentioned that “too good to be true” saffron deals always just are.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by darkoob12 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:56AM (#39926688)
I think Saffron is cultivated in all over Iranian Plateau which includes Iran Azerbaijan Afghanistan Turkmenistan Kurdish parts of Turkey and Iraq.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by dotnet00 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:29AM (#39926864)
Having lived in Iran for a bit, Saffron was indeed extremely cheap, we used to regularly eat saffron ice cream, and we frequently used it in sweets. I didn't even realize how expensive it was in the rest of the world until later.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by seanmcdirmid on Friday April 05, 2024 @12:58PM (#39944636)
There is a wonderful ice cream shop in LA called Saffron and Rose. It is in Little Persia (near UCLA) of course, everyone who visits LA should try it at least once, they have a lot of really cool flavors besides the saffron/rose one, but it is definitely the one to try at least once.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by globular-toast on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:52AM (#39927649)
There are different types. Real saffron is used sparingly and I doubt anyone is throwing a bunch of it in tea. My friends from Afghanistan would add a thread or two to their kahwah. Before they left they gifted me a massive bag of "saffron". I was a bit confused because it would be equivalent to a lifetime's worth based on how they used it. I think I concluded it might have been part of a different part of the plant or something, but it wasn't the "real" saffron they were using for sure.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by mattdesl on Thursday April 04, 2024 @06:17AM (#39928507)
In Sweden they sell bucketloads of saffron for basically a euro or two per pack. The equivalent in UK stores would have a 10x markup at least. It seems like an industry that somebody could easily capitalize on, unless there is some trade or monopoly restrictions we don’t know about.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by chakintosh on Thursday April 04, 2024 @06:35AM (#39928606)
The youtubers you see are most likely using fake saffron which is very popular.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by cess11 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @07:05AM (#39928791)
You can probably grow saffron yourself. I live in northern Europe and when its season some of the seed shops here stock live Crocus sativus.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by thewileyone on Thursday April 04, 2024 @11:28PM (#39938416)
On a trip to Spain, I bought a container of saffron in Toledo for USD100 for my mom. Lasted her for years. Tremendous markup along the trade route.
Re:Saffron: The Story of the World's Most Expensive Spice by speedylight on Saturday April 06, 2024 @05:01AM (#39951049)
It may not be real saffron, there have been cases where people sell fake saffron, not sure what they use instead of the real thing but it can happen.