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Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by angry_octet on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @08:49PM (#39198704)
The cache: qualifier does still work for me, but I fear it too is deprecated. Another incredible Google blunder.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp...

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by I_am_uncreative on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @12:15AM (#39200233)
Have we come to expect anything less from Google? Ugh.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by archerx on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @01:11AM (#39200568)
I don’t even know what the point of using google search anymore is...
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by whamlastxmas on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @02:10AM (#39200921)
Appending site:Reddit.com to everything bc Reddit search sucks
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Y_Y on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @03:31AM (#39201416)
Reddit search sucking is a feature - it's trying to protect you from the Reddit content, that's what really sucks. There was a brief moment it had some good advice on products and services, until SEO jerks got wind of it and astroturfed over the whole thing.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by A_D_E_P_T on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @04:39AM (#39201840)
Yeah, Reddit is the most astroturfed place on the internet. There's a thriving market in "high karma" accounts that are bought and sold by PR firms, SEO companies, and guerilla marketers -- and a huge fraction, if not an outright majority, of product-related posts are engineered from such sources with undisclosed interests. These days, it's one of the cheapest, and one of the "best," ways to advertise.

I don't think that Reddit was ever good. (The upvote/downvote system stifles real discussion, and even normal people treat it like a game -- exaggerating and making up stories for upvotes.) But today it's unambiguously terrible.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by dns_snek on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @05:58AM (#39202336)
Finding genuine product reviews is borderline impossible these days. Search results are usually just worthless affiliate link spam, even from supposed "reputable" outlets. Are there any other places on the internet that try to solve this problem in a way that can't be easily gamed by marketers?
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by medstrom on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @06:40AM (#39202619)
At risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, think back to how you would've browsed the internet before Google. You probably would've grown your own web-directory of bookmarks, right? That's also how you explore the non-SEO-paved parts of the internet now.

I haven't learned to find product reviews yet, but I imagine that a trick would be to know which forums to go for certain kinds of products, e.g. maybe https://xdaforums.com/ for Android devices.

There is also the search engine https://boardreader.com/ which ONLY searches proper forums--sometimes you find neat threads, sometimes not.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by dns_snek on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @07:02AM (#39202767)
Forums are a good one, but they're surprisingly hard to find these days. It really feels like we're back to word of mouth again.

This boardreader search engine sounds promising though! I'll give that a try next time I'm shopping in an unfamiliar market.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by wyclif on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @08:15AM (#39203361)
I used AltaVista.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by dclowd9901 on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:50AM (#39205210)
Forums, surprisingly, are still quite good resources for product recommendations. I suspect it's because forums tend to be _slightly_ nerdier and more focused than more mainstream resources like Reddit. I do a lot of car restoration, and forums are goldmines of product recommendations and information.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by smolder on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:40AM (#39205091)
I thought it was pretty good / relatively unexploited before diggs collapse, but I surely have rose colored nostalgia glasses.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by A_D_E_P_T on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @11:08AM (#39205465)
Didn't Digg collapse in 2012 or 2011? The internet was a different place back then. Forums, in general, have gone downhill since then, mostly on account of low-effort phoneposters. (A trend heavily promoted by Reddit.)
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by sph on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @03:43AM (#39201502)
Yeah but they enshittified Reddit too, so many links are to "unreviewed" subreddits that force you to login.

If it was not for Kagi putting some sanity back into search, Google and Reddit going to shit would have had me seriously reconsider this career and spending so much time online.

I think it is abhorrent borderline criminal to place yourself at the centre of the Internet experience, and one day decide to make it shittier for everybody because of short sighted lust for money and inept PMs.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by zeroalpha on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @06:43AM (#39202644)
Yeah exactly. Using reddit as a qualifier works only until everyone starts doing it. Thankfully for now we have old.reddit.com, until they deprecate that with some bullshit excuse in PR-english (who knows what will happen after the IPO). Then there's teddit, libreddit, etc., but they only work as long as reddit doesn't make a change. Feels like everything is a cat and mouse game these days.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by sph on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @07:31AM (#39202971)
teddit/libreddit are basically as good as dead after the API changes last summer. It's all gone to the dogs.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by slimsag on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:09AM (#39204691)
Most people in tech aren't even using old.reddit.com

Ever notice people posting completely broken markdown? That's because they use new reddit, which disagrees about markdown newlines. I would guess >70% of programmers/tech people are using new reddit.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by 93po on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @11:13AM (#39205518)
I use old reddit with an extension that forces it and don't even know what unreviewed subreddits are.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by ametrau on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @01:26PM (#39207419)
> I think it is abhorrent borderline criminal to place yourself at the centre of the Internet experience, and one day decide to make it shittier for everybody because of short sighted lust for money and inept PMs.

Putting into words the thought I’ve been having recently.

I think Google is winding down on search. I wonder how important it is to them these days. There’s no way being this crap is not intentional.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by lupusreal on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @06:54AM (#39202719)
I more often want the opposite, because reddit sucks for answering the sort of questions I usually search for.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by worksonmine on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @08:22AM (#39203438)
You don't need google for that, Works with duckduckgo aswell.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by FabHK on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @09:38AM (#39204307)
> Appending site:Reddit.com

Or, with DDG, append !r

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by crznp on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @11:11AM (#39205490)
DDG supports both, but they do different things. 'site:google.com' is a DDG search that returns Google results, '!g' is a google search that returns any results.

Similarly, !r uses reddit's search

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by 12345hn6789 on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:24AM (#39204885)
I personally am seeing issues with this too. Any time I search for something niche, and hence want some real world feedback, adding reddit to the search returns bot postings. Half the time you'll read comments that are fake reviews and the equivalent of Amazon bot reviews, in reddit comment form.

I long for the internrt of old. Everything is enshittified

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Departed7405 on Friday February 02, 2024 @02:32PM (#39233091)
Brave Search usually put Reddit Posts on top. Furthermore the Reddit post answer are now visible right in the search engine, so no need for the Reddit tracking. The only issue is you can only see OP title Post and answers, but not OP full question.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Noumenon72 on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:50PM (#39200076)
That's really too bad. I have a keyword for that search, because I have blocked this site at work in my hosts file so I can't browse, and only look at specific links via the cache.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by bvvg on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @09:25PM (#39198991)
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by rafark on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @12:54AM (#39200463)
I have a feeling this has to do with AI and all the lawsuits regarding content and copyright, storing and displaying the contents of a third party website to the end user might not be the best idea right now (I know the way back machine exists but they’re not a for profit company like google).
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by whamlastxmas on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @02:08AM (#39200915)
Probably more to do with google hating maintaining stuff and they probably lose money showing you stale websites with stale ads instead of a live one with live ads
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by yreg on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @06:13AM (#39202431)
I won't be surprised if Archive.org ends up getting screwed at the end of this fight.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by EGreg on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @11:28AM (#39205714)
We need a new web!

MaidSAFE

Freenet

Hypercore

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Aerbil313 on Thursday February 01, 2024 @04:46PM (#39221906)
MaidSAFE afaict is just another IPFS which you can pay to get your data hosted on.

HyperCore apparently got acquired and they are a company seeling solutions to businesses.

Freenet 2023 is a FOSS project. I'm watching the matrix server for a while. Ian says they're launching the network in 2 weeks. It is a decentralized data store + runtime. So while the original Freenet was analogous to disk, Freenet 2023 is analogous to an entire computer. See https://freenet.org/

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by EGreg on Friday February 02, 2024 @08:14AM (#39228153)
MaidSAFE is far beyond either Freenet, Hypercore or IPFS.

You should read their primer: https://primer.safenetwork.org/

It's completely uncensorable and unstoppable.

They encrypt every chunk of data, using "self-encryption." They don't require a manual market for hosting (like IPFS) so people can't be intimidated into not hosting something.

They even have their own implementation of the DHT which removes IP addresses after the first hop, so you can't discover the whole network and DDOS it / block it (which is not true of HyperCore, IPFS, etc.)

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MichaelZuo on Saturday February 03, 2024 @01:48AM (#39238111)
Can you link the proof for the actual claims?
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by southside38 on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:08PM (#39255487)
Can you be more specific about which proofs you want to see?

Self-encryption patent? Or the functioning of the network in general?

Im new here so unsure of the policy on links, but please search for safenetform. Folks there will be delighted to answer your queries. This project is very different from most and it can take a little effort to grasp it. That effort is very much worth it.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MichaelZuo on Monday February 05, 2024 @04:19PM (#39267339)
> It's completely uncensorable and unstoppable.

This claim is what needs something to back it up. Otherwise it's hard to believe.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Aerbil313 on Saturday February 03, 2024 @09:27AM (#39240598)
From their website[1]:

>> You're likely to want to store data on the Network. Why? Because in return for a very small one-time payment, your data will then be stored forever, encrypted and accessible anywhere in the world and only by you—unless you choose to share it.

No different than IPFS.

>> Safe Network Tokens are the incentive mechanism that encourages individuals to provide the computing resources that the Network requires: storage, broadband, and CPU resources. ... Individuals who choose to supply the resources that the Network requires have the opportunity to be rewarded with Safe Network Tokens. This work ensures that the Network rewards those who provide it with valuable resources.

> They encrypt every chunk of data, using "self-encryption."

>> Next, let's talk encryption. Imagine you want to store a photo. That data is protected by a number of layers of encryption. Your photo starts by being broken into pieces which are then encrypted with the other parts of that same file. This 'Self-Encryption' happens before the data ever hits the Network. So, unless you choose to override it, none of your data touches the Network unless it is encrypted. And it’s designed so that you're the only one that ever holds the key.

If you hold the key, why bother encrypting the data with itself? TBH the entire thing reads like a new crypto.

> They even have their own implementation of the DHT which removes IP addresses after the first hop, so you can't discover the whole network and DDOS it / block it (which is not true of HyperCore, IPFS, etc.)

This also makes large parts of the network unreachable. Freenet achieves DDOS protection without this extreme measure[2]. It also allows development of all sorts of apps, it's not only for data storage.

1: https://safenetwork.tech/how-it-works/#where-is-data-stored

2: https://docs.freenet.org/examples/antiflood-tokens.html

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by EGreg on Sunday February 04, 2024 @02:15PM (#39253377)
> No different than IPFS.

You’re wrong. SAFE is autonomous, meaning no one has to agree to host your thing, and no one has to agree to pay you for hosting. You just spin up a node and earn coin. With IPFS there are manual deals, it’s not clear how to actually get paid for your file space, and they even opened up a new tier that pays 10x filecoin block rewards for hosting data they consider “important”, but the hosts for that data don’t charge any fees and despite being quite tech-savvy I couldn’t figure out how to start earning FileCoin for hosting, using their program at all! Do I just pin the IDs of data which is going to possibly earn me 10x block rewards, or do I need to advertise and get someone to whitelist me for a “deal”? (Did anyone here do it successfully?)

> This also makes large parts of the network unreachable. Freenet achieves DDOS protection without this extreme measure[2]. It also allows development of all sorts of apps, it's not only for data storage.

Not that kind of DDOS. If I know the IP addresses of all the nodes on the network, I can flood them with traffic via the DHT leaking their IP.

Freenet does antiflood tokens on the level of their protocol, but I can DDOS their ports and subnets without conforming to the protocol. SAFE doesn’t let you even send a message to the end-computer’s IP because there is NO ADDRESS on any protocol (including BGP) that would route it there. That makes the network harder to block.

Also, I fail to see how this makes parts of the network ureachable. It’s just that I need the neighbors of a node to agree to forward info to that node. Unless you mean eclipse attacks?

> If you hold the key, why bother?

That’s a very good question… this is the only patent their team ever made… the data is encrypted using its own contents instead of relying on an external key, to aid in things like deduplication as multiple people storr and encrypt the data, while each has their own key to access it: https://youtu.be/Jnvwv4z17b4?si=oHM96fBjCVGaGmSN

It’s not a “new crypto”. That video is 9 years old, and SAFE network started before Bitcoin! Just a bit after Bittorrent. They started in 2006 and are still working on it.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by brianshaler on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @11:51AM (#39206017)
They already are, with content platforms clamping down on public access, with more and more content locked away behind exorbitantly expensive APIs (mostly thinking reddit and twitter here)
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by yreg on Thursday February 01, 2024 @05:18AM (#39214432)
Yes and no. The deep web has long been much larger than the observable one.

What I'm worried about is a new set of legal precedents that will make it impossible for Archive to legally rehost the content they have scraped.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by cebert on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @06:20AM (#39202483)
It could also be security related. I know occasionally companies accidentally make things public they didn’t intend to be public due to misconfiguration. Once this happens, those pages are available in the Google cache even when they’re no longer accessible. You can request the cached results be removed, but this takes time.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by ravenstine on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @08:35AM (#39203587)
I can picture future HN conversations now.

"It's a good thing copyright law exists to prevent AI from doing anything useful because I'm fearful of AI."

"Hey, does anyone know why the web has become so boring and useless???"

Who knows – maybe Google Search won't even show page descriptions in the coming years.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by zackmorris on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @09:15AM (#39204018)
"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." -Winston Churchill

A paradox of politics is that the desire to not talk about politics favors the status quo, necessitating the need to talk about politics.

It's obvious to me that AI is being rolled out in just exactly the wrong way at multiple levels, creating misaligned incentives and a perversion of original goals. But the knee-jerk reactions to it that drive the creation of draconian policies were predicted almost a century ago.

It seems that everything we hold sacred is under attack in these times. The smart bet seems to be on ensh@ttification. Because the organizations that were formerly stewards of online freedom have abdicated their responsibility.

I find it helpful to remember that every misstep by established players creates an opportunity for newcomers to compete.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MSFT_Edging on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @09:44AM (#39204370)
This is an important comment.

Instead of "AI"(be real, llms and stable diffusion) being developed openly and studied without a profit motive, it's been thrust into the cheap world of VCs looking to extract any profit whatsoever from it, nearly immediately.

This has caused these "AI" tools to be used to steal and rehash artists work(cheapening artists because tech bros and MBAs resent art and the time it takes to perfect). Cheapening human labor(why pay a person to understand anything when you can have an llm do 20% of the job and worse).

These AI tools were thrown in the deep end with a singular purpose: Cheapen what was thought to be protected from computers, while not providing any real value to the layperson.

The average person can maybe get a funny joke, a bad few lines of code, or an ugly bespoke AI image for their medium article, but the true winners are the ones cutting jobs en masse before the tech has even matured, so both the employee and the customer gets a worse product while the MBA's show a solid quarterly report after they ran a knife across their workforce's neck.

Those with power and money have continued to show they will not use technology for any positive societal purpose until they are forced to with regulation. So we're forced to neuter the technology before it can really develop. It's like one child playing violently with a toy, forcing the teacher to take the toy away from everyone else.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by stateofinquiry on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:34AM (#39205028)
There should be no surprise that "those with power and money" will not willingly apply "technology" for social good. It should be expected, rather. Your comment brings to mind Edward R. Murrow's speech in 1958 about the direction of television (certainly would be "high tech" back then!) He and others envisioned education, information, and enlightenment from this technology. Well, you know what we got instead. Here is a summary of the speech, and you can hear the whole thing on youtube if you like- still absolutely relevant.

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2014/today-in-medi... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIhy0T7Q48Y

We can see the same thing with other newer media; Ex. video games. I don't have solutions per se, though I wish this pattern could be different. The profit motive and appealing to base instinct seems to always "win".

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MSFT_Edging on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:49AM (#39205202)
I'm aware it should be expected.

The target of my comment is specifically the "well profit=good" crowd on here.

It's to point out the innate contradiction in how we speak about technology compared to the guaranteed outcome in our system.

We're doomed as a species if we keep believing in the magical market as a primary mover for said species. We'll stall in a circlejerk of ads and stock buybacks and never accomplish anything, because any good use for technology is locked behind a gate due to the lack of profit.

Any improvement in medicine is behind lock and key because the pharmaceutical companies "need to make back their investment" despite massive gov funding.

We're killing ourselves here with the spectacle that this system is either working or worth saving.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by stateofinquiry on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @12:17PM (#39206465)
True points, and I apologize for missing you actual point and wandering off a bit. We probably need another social model for technological development specifically- but I am not sure what it might be. If there is anything useful to salvage from my previous its that this issue has been with us for a long while.
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MSFT_Edging on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @01:09PM (#39207217)
I think amazing gains could be made if we ripped the bandaid off and took all the weapons manufacturers and other gov contractors and used that brain power entirely for darpa style public works projects.

Our current military industrial project is just a self fulfilling fantasy. Stop the contracts for war, create contracts and research for moving humanity forward without the need to strap it to a missile 20 years before it hits shelves. Keep IP rights publicly owned, license them to anyone and use the licensing fees to fund new research.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Aloisius on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @12:22PM (#39206530)
One could make a similar argument about every other major technological advance in history.

I’m not sure why people seem to believe AI is different or special or what leads them to believe you can stop it anymore than the automated loom or the combine harvester.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MSFT_Edging on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @12:35PM (#39206738)
Given the invention of the cotton gin, the slave owners should have been clubbed to death and the technology not used to make slavery more enticing but to improve productivity to reduce level of effort and provide more free time.

This can be translated to modern day.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by EGreg on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @11:28AM (#39205719)
Boring and useless? More like A DARK FOREST with disinformation and gaslighting everywhere, and fake “participants” in your forums. Oh, hi human :)
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by bayindirh on Thursday February 01, 2024 @02:13AM (#39213482)
> "Hey, does anyone know why the web has become so boring and useless???"

Yes, I know. Some companies have abused the social contracts of the web which were in place since its inception, and told that they are doing something amazing so they need no permission to do what they're doing.

So the web has responded the way it should.

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:14AM (#39204760)
Wouldn't this work in Google's favor?

"AI is doing a thing which we have already been doing for most of the internet's existence; this thing is central to the internet as we know it works today."

Versus

"AI is doing a thing that we stopped doing proactively because we thought it might be illegal, which also means it's clearly not that important to the web, please let us keep doing it for AI training."

Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by MOARDONGZPLZ on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:19AM (#39204822)
“So as you can see esteemed jury, we’re not just copyright infringing _now_, we’ve been doing it for years! So you must acquit!”
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by user_7832 on Wednesday January 31, 2024 @10:52AM (#39205238)
Could you explain how you generated this link? Whenever I try the old cache:<url> address I always get a 404. Thanks!
Re:Google Search Drops Cache Link from Search Results by angry_octet on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @04:41AM (#39272540)
I went to the google search page and put in the URL with the cache: prefix. Eg "cache:http://archive.org/". This is now broken. Existing cache entries still exist, but unfortunately unless you know the URL it is inaccessible.