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Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Vespasian on Thursday January 25, 2024 @01:56PM (#39133366)
The vast vast majority of apps doesn't

But I agree, as expected, this will go to round two.

Probably not even a new DMA just a court case about malicious compliance. The DMA was written expecting apples reaction

Still that they will reduce the commission fee is quite important on its own.

If this reduces the flood of free ad financed apps and moves the market to a more sustainable model I'm all for it (although I realise this stance is probably controversial)

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Kon-Peki on Thursday January 25, 2024 @02:46PM (#39134192)
> just a court case about malicious compliance

This I don't understand. What exactly would the court case be about? "You're following the law but we didn't mean it like that?"

If you want them to do things differently, don't you need to either 1. prove that they aren't following the DMA, or 2. change the DMA?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_compliance

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Vespasian on Thursday January 25, 2024 @02:50PM (#39134234)
The rules (payment per install) differ for apps installed from the app store to those not installed from there.

That gives preference to apples own app (the app store) which they can only do because they are still Gatekeeping.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Kon-Peki on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:03PM (#39134429)
So you're arguing that they aren't following the DMA? That's not malicious compliance, that's non-compliance.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by mh8h on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:32PM (#39134833)
No they don't:

> Core Technology Fee — iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by kristofferR on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:39PM (#39134946)
The new business terms including the Core Technology Fee are only required for developers who will want to be able to upload their apps to alternative app stores like f-droid:

https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#...

Pretty clear malicious compliance. "Oh, you want to be able to distribute your popular free apps on other app stores? You gotta start paying us massively then."

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by cmelbye on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:13PM (#39135377)
I wonder how they should comply with the law in your eyes. What is a fair way for Apple to recoup the investment they make into their developer programs?
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by kristofferR on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:21PM (#39135489)
Selling devices and App Store revenue. To charge free/open-source apps for your OS is absurd.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Vespasian on Thursday January 25, 2024 @06:50PM (#39137099)
Apples has several revenue streams:

- They sell hardware and licensed software to consumers. Within the law they may ask for money for feature updates.

- They also charge developers for access to their tools and access to their store front and payment handling.

That's all legit and if they want to hike prices or put parts of that information behind paywalls, the market will sort it out.

But if a consumer and a third party developer want to do business without all that, then it's my (and the DMAs) stance that apple has no right to a share of that. They EU is increasingly of the opinion that, in general, a device has to serve its owner and not the original manufacturer.

When they want to protect consumers by scanning for known malware that's fine but "Apple loses revenue" is not a threat at all.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by HDThoreaun on Friday January 26, 2024 @07:12PM (#39150746)
Selling phones? How does msft recoup the resources theyve put into windows developer programs?
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by fyrn_ on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:28PM (#39135581)
Oh, that's sneaky. So if someone wants to also distribute their app on something else, they pay the fee on their existing installs?
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by madeofpalk on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:56PM (#39135172)
Or take advantage of some of the new capabilities, such as NFC access or alternative browser engines.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by SllX on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:15PM (#39134603)
So I’ve got to ask, is malicious compliance a real actionable legal theory or is it just something that has been written about but never prosecuted?

It reads like one of those buzzwords that doesn’t actually mean anything useful in a the context of a court of law, at least as a prosecutable offense, but gets talked about like it does, because the statement itself reads like an oxymoron. You’re either compliant with the law or you’re not, and malicious is subjective. Am I off base by saying that? What am I missing?

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by ahartmetz on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:51PM (#39135110)
Whether "malicious compliance" is a legal term or not, the intent of the law does count and transparent workarounds are not appreciated.

It depends on the area of law, traditions, common sense etc how much that ia true, but in general, disregarding transparent workarounds is a thing.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by SllX on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:37PM (#39135702)
Yeah, except the text matters a whole lot more than the intent because that’s what you’re going to read and reference when determining how to comply. If the intent is just for Apple to roll over and show their belly, they’re not really obligated to do that. A legislative body can always rewrite laws passed by the same legislative body if the first set of laws isn’t working out the way they hoped, and the EU is a supranational entity formed by treaty between peoples with few in the way of what can be called shared legal traditions or sensibilities so you have to think the text has to really matter here.

So if it comes down to whether Apple is compliant, wouldn’t you just stack up their measures against the law as written? Which would then mean compliance is compliance, and the onus then falls on whatever prosecutorial authority is empowered here to show that it is not.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by akie on Thursday January 25, 2024 @02:37PM (#39134073)
> this will go to a round two

And there is only one possible outcome: Apple will bend to the EU's will, because in the end the European market is too profitable to ignore.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by bastardoperator on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:38PM (#39134936)
They will, the question that really matters is will developers. Is the case for DIY that compelling amongst European companies? I think it will cost companies more to rebuild their own walled garden then what it's worth. I suspect we're not going to see much change, and that most will stick with what they have. There doesn't seem to be any financial incentive to leave at this point.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by overstay8930 on Thursday January 25, 2024 @02:51PM (#39134239)
You know these rules were drafted in cooperation with the EU right? Vestager was at Apple's HQ 2 weeks ago, and the EU spends millions to keep a regulator presence in Silicon Valley.

The commission knows they really don't have much to stand on, if they go any farther they know other EU countries are going to step in again (these rules are not very popular anymore after GDPR and now that the EU is falling even farther behind the USA economically).

The EU commission is a lot less powerful than a lot of terminally online Americans like to believe. EU courts constantly rule against them for overstepping their bounds and they have been caught submitting fake evidence before (see: Qualcomm case)

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by madeofpalk on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:57PM (#39135180)
Apple didn't make this up 2 weeks ago.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Vespasian on Thursday January 25, 2024 @02:42PM (#39134154)
One interesting switch up could be the EU elections this year.

Right, Far-right and EU-sceptic parties are predicted to become much stronger.

So their stance might change on some topics

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by blibble on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:02PM (#39134417)
I wouldn't expect so

The european far right are hardly fans of large American tech companies

now, if they were domestic, that would be entirely different

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by TheLoafOfBread on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:34PM (#39135655)
> Right, Far-right and EU-sceptic parties are predicted to become much stronger.

Those parties are running predominantly on nationalism and populism. If anything they will be happy to screw US tech companies even more.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Wytwwww on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:07PM (#39135307)
The parliament is hardly relevant though, it's pretty much a joke. The non directly elected commission and council control EU's policy.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by Vespasian on Thursday January 25, 2024 @07:08PM (#39137241)
Not true at all.

No law like the DMA passes without the approval of parliament and the council of member states. In fact, all the details are hashed out between these two bodies with little to no say from the commission.

BTW: The way the commission is selected is one step removed from the voters but this principle is not too uncommon in European parliamentary democracies. For example the German or Austrian Chancellors or the prime ministers of Italy ,Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Poland are elected in a similar fashion.

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by tivert on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:09PM (#39134509)
> Right, Far-right and EU-sceptic parties are predicted to become much stronger.

Do they have a much more favorable attitude towards American tech giants than whoever is in power now?

Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by akie on Thursday January 25, 2024 @03:29PM (#39134804)
If anything they’re in Putin’s pocket, not in Big Tech’s pocket.
Re:Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store... by tivert on Thursday January 25, 2024 @04:42PM (#39135774)
And if that's the case, I'd expect them to be more hostile to American tech companies than European social democrats, because those companies are instruments of American power.